The truth of the Matter

[Irish_inPSU]

I don't know guys and girls. I didn't even watch yesterday's game simply because I knew what the outcome would be again. Another mediocre ND team getting throttled by a far superior team. It simply wasn't worth taking away from the other things I have going on to tune in and watch it.

I really think Notre Dame needs to take a step back and look at things. What do they really want to be? If they aspire to field championship level football teams that compete at the same level as the tOSU's and Alabama's of the world, then things really need to change internally. What you're asking is for a University, who puts academics ahead of collegiate athletics, who will bench anyone for probable cause because it involved an academic infraction, a football program that is more of less handcuffed by very stringent academic standards, etc., to compete head to head with football programs that are more or less attached to a university to make it "official". These are football factories, not collegiate athletics.

At this time, I simply do not believe that a program that operates the way ND does can consistently compete with Alabama's and tOSU's, for example. Until something drastically changes with how the NCAA requires these kids to go to class, take meaningful classes, etc., ND will always be behind. Sure there is always that flicker of a season that makes us all crazy and hopeful for the next NC. But I have to be honest. ND is nothing more than a glorified Ivy league school that recruits better than average athletes because of its name, not because of where its going.

I honestly do not believe this is a coaching issue, other than perhaps a problem at DC right now. However, it can't continue to be a coaching problem. Disastrous game after disastrous game, it can't all fall on coaches. I for one am tired of hearing that excuse. Some games its warrented, but not season after season, coach after coach. This problem is deeper and broader than Brian Kelly or ever BVG.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

As an alum, it pains me to agree with your post. Yesterday, in all honesty, was the first time I also concluded that given the state of college football of today, ND will never win another NC. All the money in college sports now simply doesn't allow it. Academics are taking a back seat all across the CFB (actually all college sports) landscape. Players leaving early were few and far between only 20 years ago. Now it's common place. The game is just completely different. ND has remained the same, and those 2 points are at odds. But even with that, I do not want my school to sell out to that.

 

[gipper04]

OK swami. Two losses by 2 pts each to teams that will finish top 5 while playing at the opponents stadium. One in a driving rain storm. One ND led with 30 seconds left. The last loss came to a team many think has the most talent in CFB. The combination of going down 14-0 and losing the best player on the team as well as his backup did nothing to help stop Elliott. 3 losses all to teams that will finish top 5. I am not sure anyone else has played 3 that will finish top 10, other than Bama who will have played Clemson, MSU and Ole Miss (who will end up top 10).
You have a coach who has put ND in the top 10 in 2 campaigns. Boy the coaches are bad, the team is bad. The program is in shambles. ND just can't compete at this level because the playing field isn't level for poor Brian and his kids. Good Lord, Jack and Father Jenkins out to shut the program down

 

[D_Master]

winning a championship, possibly. but I think BK has proven he can field a top 5-10 level team still at ND. Look at what we did this year. Our 3 losses were to the possible champion on their field, the rose bowl champion on their field and a team that has lost 2 games in nearly 3 years. All of that while fielding a team that at 1 point or another lost 20 players to injury, many for the year.

I didn't think we'd win against OSU, but if you were told after the Stanford game, Day would be sick to the point of receiving IV's during the game, Tillery and Redfield would be sent home, Butler would get hurt 2 days before the game, Prosise wouldnt play and Jaylon would get hurt in the 1st quarter, Coney later and Grace would be playing OLB which he never has, what would you have predicted? I would've said something like 52-21. I really would like to see what BK would be able to do w/ a full, healthy roster, cause what he did this year was nothing short of incredible.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Hey, I'll admit, I hope I am completely wrong with what my fears tell me. Also, I keep hearing about 4 points away from undefeated, the other side of that is we are also a few plays away from being 8 - 4, 7 - 5(Virginia, Temple ... even BC).

 

[deadirishpoet]

ND w

As an alum, it pains me to agree with your post. Yesterday, in all honesty, was the first time I also concluded that given the state of college football of today, ND will never win another NC. All the money in college sports now simply doesn't allow it. Academics are taking a back seat all across the CFB (actually all college sports) landscape. Players leaving early were few and far between only 20 years ago. Now it's common place. The game is just completely different. ND has remained the same, and those 2 points are at odds. But even with that, I do not want my school to sell out to that.

Notre Dame will join the Ivy League before it changes it's standard, and rightly so.

 

[michigaNDer#1]

Utter BS. ND has been high enough in recruiting to compete. Alabama is not the norm. It is coaching. If Kelly doesn't fix the D, you won't have to watch next yr.

 

[tkirish]

The original post has some very good points but I'm having a tough time thinking ND can't compete if they don't change. To me I think it has more to do with the style of football they play. You know for years ND strength has always been big strong offensive line with a power run game. Sound familiar? Who runs that system? Stanford , that's who. Look how good they have been over the last 6 years. You can still win and remain academically true if you play to your strengths. ND has always been most successful when they run first. Kelly's system is not geared for that. That's why his teams struggle in the red zone and short yardage. Kelly is a very good coach. But the Irish are missing something. I just know that when ND loses to teams like Ohio st, they are getting physically dominated. Kelly needs to look at that and get players that can go 15 rounds with the big boys.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Utter BS. ND has been high enough in recruiting to compete. Alabama is not the norm. It is coaching. If Kelly doesn't fix the D, you won't have to watch next yr.

To me the interesting thing about coach Saban is the QB play he gets out of his recruits. Even before their current OC

 

[DieHard_Irish]

The original post has some very good points but I'm having a tough time thinking ND can't compete if they don't change. To me I think it has more to do with the style of football they play. You know for years ND strength has always been big strong offensive line with a power run game. Sound familiar? Who runs that system? Stanford , that's who. Look how good they have been over the last 6 years. You can still win and remain academically true if you play to your strengths. ND has always been most successful when they run first. Kelly's system is not geared for that. That's why his teams struggle in the red zone and short yardage. Kelly is a very good coach. But the Irish are missing something. I just know that when ND loses to teams like Ohio st, they are getting physically dominated. Kelly needs to look at that and get players that can go 15 rounds with the big boys.

I totally agree here. I was surprised at BK's post game where he something yo the effect that we competed physically with tOSU. He must have been watching a different game, because I thought we were dominated in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

 

[ndrules2007]

As much as we fans want ND to win a NC, it should not be at a cost of integrity and lowering standards. If ND starts lowering its standard like other school, what's the difference between them and the BAMAs of the world ? Given the injuries, it was a very good season, we should all be proud off. lets hope for a better outcome next season ..... GO IRISH .... I am proud of our university. It is not about winning NCs .... It is about having a solid program, that competes, that sets the kids up for success in there lives, etc.

 

[Telx1]

Just can't understand how a long time fan of ND football would choose not to watch ND in a major bowl game.

 

[michigaNDer#1]

The original post has some very good points but I'm having a tough time thinking ND can't compete if they don't change. To me I think it has more to do with the style of football they play. You know for years ND strength has always been big strong offensive line with a power run game. Sound familiar? Who runs that system? Stanford , that's who. Look how good they have been over the last 6 years. You can still win and remain academically true if you play to your strengths. ND has always been most successful when they run first. Kelly's system is not geared for that. That's why his teams struggle in the red zone and short yardage. Kelly is a very good coach. But the Irish are missing something. I just know that when ND loses to teams like Ohio st, they are getting physically dominated. Kelly needs to look at that and get players that can go 15 rounds with the big boys.

Just fix the D. And Stanford is NOT running the Toby Gerhardt offense with McCaffrey.

 

[michigaNDer#1]

BTW, Alabama proved that having a power run game isn't the end all. MSU just sold out to stop the between the tackles run and they needed Coker to have the best game of his life. A balanced offense is a good thing. See Clemson. Having the mobile QB is just an added bonus.

 

[HDK]

To me the interesting thing about coach Saban is the QB play he gets out of his recruits. Even before their current OC

I think I might be able to play QB for Alabama with all those great players across the board.

 

[Maplerock]

Bullspit. No true ND fan would refuse to watch. It's painful at times, but that's what being a true fan entails.

So many of us count down the days to ND football. To not even watch tells me this jack wagon is a troll.

 

[allaboutthecash]

ND fans talk about the close losses to good teams but they fail to realize the close wins to very bad teams. ND schedule was very favorable this year and at end of the day, ND didn't have any good wins. In 6 years Kelly still hasn't had a truly significant win.
Kelly never ever has won a BCS bowl, playoff game, title game etc. in 6 years at ND Kelly has won nothing of significance.

 

[NDSMC78]

ND fans talk about the close losses to good teams but they fail to realize the close wins to very bad teams. ND schedule was very favorable this year and at end of the day, ND didn't have any good wins. In 6 years Kelly still hasn't had a truly significant win.
Kelly never ever has won a BCS bowl, playoff game, title game etc. in 6 years at ND Kelly has won nothing of significance.

Man, the drubbing at the hands of Michigan must still be eating at you.

 

[vivalas]

Couldn't disagree more. First, you're dealing with 18-19 year old kids. Each of the top coaches (Saban, Meyer) had close calls this season in major games. Why? Because outside a few top teams, there is a lot of parity. Bama and osu are the only two teams that have avoided much of a drop. Nd has a top offense, people can complain we don't run the ball enough,blah blah blah...... But with a frosh qb, we excelled and put up 28 against a very good defense. Defensively it is a different story. I believe the talent is there, my problem is the development of those players. I love joe Schmidt for the person he is but he sums up the lack of development on the defensive side....how can we not have another athletic lb beat him out? Not sure if that is a kelly problem or a bvg problem. I was never a fan of diaco's bend don't break d either. Surprising because there are a few other teams that development wise and schematically have figured it out

 

[Irish_inPSU]

I completely understand how some of you will get defensive. But I'm sorry people, if you can't see the writing the writing on the wall, then you need to put down the Koolaid and quit living in the past. The very, very distant past as its becoming. Notre Dame has not won a significant bowl game since the early 90's, perhaps 94 was the last time in the Cotten Bowl. So now Notre Dame is over 20 years removed from a major bowl game win.

I don't know what else say. College Football has moved on, its changed and its making it increasingly more difficult for the "do gooder" schools like Notre Dame to compete consistently. I'm not saying its right, but the truth is, the game has changed and Notre Dame, as an institution, has not.

 

[Classic Irish]

I completely understand how some of you will get defensive. But I'm sorry people, if you can't see the writing the writing on the wall, then you need to put down the Koolaid and quit living in the past. The very, very distant past as its becoming. Notre Dame has not won a significant bowl game since the early 90's, perhaps 94 was the last time in the Cotten Bowl. So now Notre Dame is over 20 years removed from a major bowl game win.

I don't know what else say. College Football has moved on, its changed and its making it increasingly more difficult for the "do gooder" schools like Notre Dame to compete consistently. I'm not saying its right, but the truth is, the game has changed and Notre Dame, as an institution, has not.

I hear what you're saying and agree with you that college football has changed. But I'm curious to understand what you're suggesting. If you're suggesting that ND needs to compromise its values and in effect "sell out" if it wants to keep pace with the Alabamas and Ohio States, I seriously don't foresee that ever happening. ND will never prostitute itself just to become a football factory.

 

[deadirishpoet]

I completely understand how some of you will get defensive. But I'm sorry people, if you can't see the writing the writing on the wall, then you need to put down the Koolaid and quit living in the past. The very, very distant past as its becoming. Notre Dame has not won a significant bowl game since the early 90's, perhaps 94 was the last time in the Cotten Bowl. So now Notre Dame is over 20 years removed from a major bowl game win.

I don't know what else say. College Football has moved on, its changed and its making it increasingly more difficult for the "do gooder" schools like Notre Dame to compete consistently. I'm not saying its right, but the truth is, the game has changed and Notre Dame, as an institution, has not.

Not for Stanford

 

[Irish_inPSU]

I hear what you're saying and agree with you that college football has changed. But I'm curious to understand what you're suggesting. If you're suggesting that ND needs to compromise its values and in effect "sell out" if it wants to keep pace with the Alabamas and Ohio States, I seriously don't foresee that ever happening. ND will never prostitute itself just to become a football factory.

Oh I don't doubt for a minute that ND will ever sell out. But I think they need to begin looking at how open their doors, even a little more, to kids that otherwise wouldn't make the cut.

ND has historically recruited well. But that apparently doesn't mean squat. I would love to see what a Saban or Meyer would do with the recruits ND gets right now. Maybe it would be better, maybe not. Maybe a coaching staff change is in order. I don't know. I knew when they hired Kelly it was not going to be a bed of roses. His style simply doesn't match well with the types of opponents ND plays each season.

The alarming part for me is that each and every time ND gets pitted against a team like OSU or Alabama, its a blow out. Not even close. Why? (then again, it looks like the entire bowl season was a host of blow outs...)

I am just starting to feel like we need to just accept that having a decent 8-4 or 9-3 season and winning any bowl game will be the measuring stick of success each year.

 

[HuddleBurger]

The ND administration loosened up standards under Holtz. They subsequently didn't like the direction the program was headed apparently -- big-time wins but flirting with off-the-field issues and scandal.

They changed things up and basically tied both hands behind the program's back. See Holtz' record his last three years, and sudden retirement with vague and mysterious reasons. He couldn't come out and say that ND was being too restrictive.

ND has never been back to the mountaintop again. The administration got that one last taste of it and didn't like it. I don't think they'll ever go back to making the necessary compromises.

ND is a great place for young men to come and develop personal character and academic knowledge along with football skills. Those are probably the three most important things in order of importance. They're not going to change.

I also DVR'd the game because I had other stuff going on, and have yet to watch it. What's the point?

 

[TDIrish27]

Agreed

 

[Classic Irish]

Oh I don't doubt for a minute that ND will ever sell out. But I think they need to begin looking at how open their doors, even a little more, to kids that otherwise wouldn't make the cut.

ND has historically recruited well. But that apparently doesn't mean squat. I would love to see what a Saban or Meyer would do with the recruits ND gets right now. Maybe it would be better, maybe not. Maybe a coaching staff change is in order. I don't know. I knew when they hired Kelly it was not going to be a bed of roses. His style simply doesn't match well with the types of opponents ND plays each season.

The alarming part for me is that each and every time ND gets pitted against a team like OSU or Alabama, its a blow out. Not even close. Why? (then again, it looks like the entire bowl season was a host of blow outs...)

I am just starting to feel like we need to just accept that having a decent 8-4 or 9-3 season and winning any bowl game will be the measuring stick of success each year.

I hear you. Hang in there. Here's hoping that better times are ahead.

 

[wicker]

Better days are coming

 

[Headwaters]

I don't know guys and girls. I didn't even watch yesterday's game simply because I knew what the outcome would be again. Another mediocre ND team getting throttled by a far superior team. It simply wasn't worth taking away from the other things I have going on to tune in and watch it.

I really think Notre Dame needs to take a step back and look at things. What do they really want to be? If they aspire to field championship level football teams that compete at the same level as the tOSU's and Alabama's of the world, then things really need to change internally. What you're asking is for a University, who puts academics ahead of collegiate athletics, who will bench anyone for probable cause because it involved an academic infraction, a football program that is more of less handcuffed by very stringent academic standards, etc., to compete head to head with football programs that are more or less attached to a university to make it "official". These are football factories, not collegiate athletics.

At this time, I simply do not believe that a program that operates the way ND does can consistently compete with Alabama's and tOSU's, for example. Until something drastically changes with how the NCAA requires these kids to go to class, take meaningful classes, etc., ND will always be behind. Sure there is always that flicker of a season that makes us all crazy and hopeful for the next NC. But I have to be honest. ND is nothing more than a glorified Ivy league school that recruits better than average athletes because of its name, not because of where its going.

I honestly do not believe this is a coaching issue, other than perhaps a problem at DC right now. However, it can't continue to be a coaching problem. Disastrous game after disastrous game, it can't all fall on coaches. I for one am tired of hearing that excuse. Some games its warrented, but not season after season, coach after coach. This problem is deeper and broader than Brian Kelly or ever BVG.

With due respect to the OP, I have a few questions:

1. Do you really believe Saban or Meyer couldn't win big at ND w/o compromising ND standards?

2. You say ND hasn't had a meaningful bowl victory in 20+ yrs (true) yet Stanford has, NW has, and their academics are at least as high and likely higher than ND's. How do you explain their ability to win despite ND's clear media advantages over those schools?

In my view power football wins NC's in most cases (not all). ND under Kelly is akin to Oregon. More sizzle than steak. You don't run the ball consistently well not do you stop the run consistently well. This is a coaching issue. You have had plenty of talent to win big.

3. BKelly has completed 6 yrs at ND with no Jan 1 or better bowl wins. Zero. Why would anyone expect this to change going forward?

 

[kellys heroes 35]

With due respect to the OP, I have a few questions:

1. Do you really believe Saban or Meyer couldn't win big at ND w/o compromising ND standards?

2. You say ND hasn't had a meaningful bowl victory in 20+ yrs (true) yet Stanford has, NW has, and their academics are at least as high and likely higher than ND's. How do you explain their ability to win despite ND's clear media advantages over those schools?

In my view power football wins NC's in most cases (not all). ND under Kelly is akin to Oregon. More sizzle than steak. You don't run the ball consistently well not do you stop the run consistently well. This is a coaching issue. You have had plenty of talent to win big.

3. BKelly has completed 6 yrs at ND with no Jan 1 or better bowl wins. Zero. Why would anyone expect this to change going forward?

Why ?

Because I expect one day ND to play with a relatively injury free starting lineup - that's why

 

[kellys heroes 35]

With due respect to the OP, I have a few questions:

1. Do you really believe Saban or Meyer couldn't win big at ND w/o compromising ND standards?

2. You say ND hasn't had a meaningful bowl victory in 20+ yrs (true) yet Stanford has, NW has, and their academics are at least as high and likely higher than ND's. How do you explain their ability to win despite ND's clear media advantages over those schools?

In my view power football wins NC's in most cases (not all). ND under Kelly is akin to Oregon. More sizzle than steak. You don't run the ball consistently well not do you stop the run consistently well. This is a coaching issue. You have had plenty of talent to win big.

3. BKelly has completed 6 yrs at ND with no Jan 1 or better bowl wins. Zero. Why would anyone expect this to change going forward?

Lost to Clemson by 2 pts Lost to Stanford by 2 pts -- in your eyes does 10-2 sux ?if so tell Bill Belechek that and see what he says big timer . Vince Lombardi would take 10-2 all day every day !!

people like yourself are all that is wrong with infantile internet drivel

 

[deadirishpoet]

Lost to Clemson by 2 pts Lost to Stanford by 2 pts -- in your eyes does 10-2 sux ?if so tell Bill Belechek that and see what he says big timer . Vince Lombardi would take 10-2 all day every day !!

people like yourself are all that is wrong with infantile internet drivel

NFL is a different beast

 

[Telx1]

Kelly has not delivered a major bowl victory, and the state of ND football, and his leadership will be questioned until he does. By the same token, it is beyond silly to question the positive impact he has had and the upward trajectory of the program. Before he arrived at ND, I was sick of the widely held view that ND would never be relevant again. The oft stated view was that good players would no longer come to a small Carholic university that required academic participation, located in a dull town with terrible Midwest weather, etc... Yes, these do represent challenges, but Kelly and staff have the program back in the NC conversation, and in the consciousness of elite players. The next level is within reach. It takes a certain degree of good fortune to go undefeated or to win a major bowl, and ND is overdue for a healthy season of good fortune. I look forward to celebrating a Kelly coached major bowl win with you all in the near future.

 

[Tru2Irish]

Kelly has not delivered a major bowl victory, and the state of ND football, and his leadership will be questioned until he does. By the same token, it is beyond silly to question the positive impact he has had and the upward trajectory of the program. Before he arrived at ND, I was sick of the widely held view that ND would never be relevant again. The oft stated view was that good players would no longer come to a small Carholic university that required academic participation, located in a dull town with terrible Midwest weather, etc... Yes, these do represent challenges, but Kelly and staff have the program back in the NC conversation, and in the consciousness of elite players. The next level is within reach. It takes a certain degree of good fortune to go undefeated or to win a major bowl, and ND is overdue for a healthy season of good fortune. I look forward to celebrating a Kelly coached major bowl win with you all in the near future.

preparation,effort ,techniques,fundamentals and great scheme always are great with winning teams in bowls. Every once in a while some team is caught off guard. More often than not, better team has all the above characteristics.

 

[Irish_inPSU]

With due respect to the OP, I have a few questions:

1. Do you really believe Saban or Meyer couldn't win big at ND w/o compromising ND standards?

2. You say ND hasn't had a meaningful bowl victory in 20+ yrs (true) yet Stanford has, NW has, and their academics are at least as high and likely higher than ND's. How do you explain their ability to win despite ND's clear media advantages over those schools?

In my view power football wins NC's in most cases (not all). ND under Kelly is akin to Oregon. More sizzle than steak. You don't run the ball consistently well not do you stop the run consistently well. This is a coaching issue. You have had plenty of talent to win big.

3. BKelly has completed 6 yrs at ND with no Jan 1 or better bowl wins. Zero. Why would anyone expect this to change going forward?

Good points. As for number 1, no, I don't think either of them could pull it off consistently with the current handcuffing of the program.

#2 I have no flipping clue how Stanford is doing it. All I can think of is what another poster said. POWER football and tough defense will always give you a chance.

 

[Irish_inPSU]

And you know, the comments about power running games and strong defenses really does hit home. ND always played several Big 10 teams every season, they also play Stanford and USC. These teams, with the exception of USC is some cases, have always been built around tough defense and a good running game. ND with Kelly is trying to be like Oregon in many ways and it simply doesn't work against the tougher opponents ND plays. Perhaps if ND was in the Pac 12... but then again, Stanford always seemed to have Oregons number.

Perhaps that is the answer. ND needs to go back to a traditional power game, much like Alabama. Focus on strong defense and strong running attack. It might be the only way they'll have a chance when they meet the top tier teams in the post season bowls or playoffs.

 

[88ND]

I don't know guys and girls. I didn't even watch yesterday's game simply because I knew what the outcome would be again. Another mediocre ND team getting throttled by a far superior team. It simply wasn't worth taking away from the other things I have going on to tune in and watch it.

I really think Notre Dame needs to take a step back and look at things. What do they really want to be? If they aspire to field championship level football teams that compete at the same level as the tOSU's and Alabama's of the world, then things really need to change internally. What you're asking is for a University, who puts academics ahead of collegiate athletics, who will bench anyone for probable cause because it involved an academic infraction, a football program that is more of less handcuffed by very stringent academic standards, etc., to compete head to head with football programs that are more or less attached to a university to make it "official". These are football factories, not collegiate athletics.

At this time, I simply do not believe that a program that operates the way ND does can consistently compete with Alabama's and tOSU's, for example. Until something drastically changes with how the NCAA requires these kids to go to class, take meaningful classes, etc., ND will always be behind. Sure there is always that flicker of a season that makes us all crazy and hopeful for the next NC. But I have to be honest. ND is nothing more than a glorified Ivy league school that recruits better than average athletes because of its name, not because of where its going.

I honestly do not believe this is a coaching issue, other than perhaps a problem at DC right now. However, it can't continue to be a coaching problem. Disastrous game after disastrous game, it can't all fall on coaches. I for one am tired of hearing that excuse. Some games its warrented, but not season after season, coach after coach. This problem is deeper and broader than Brian Kelly or ever BVG.

I disagree. Is it more challenging? Very much so. We are playing a self induced up hill battle no doubt. Having said that one question I have is this....if it's not the coaching....

How is Stanford competing so well? I do firmly believe they would have fared much better against OSU. Not because they beat us... Remember we had them beat but rather Stanford plays to win in big games rather than worrying about failing.

If that's not an extension of the coaches I don't know what is.

 

[michigaNDer#1]

I disagree. Is it more challenging? Very much so. We are playing a self induced up hill battle no doubt. Having said that one question I have is this....if it's not the coaching....

How is Stanford competing so well? I do firmly believe they would have fared much better against OSU. Not because they beat us... Remember we had them beat but rather Stanford plays to win in big games rather than worrying about failing.

If that's not an extension of the coaches I don't know what is.

Not sure what any of you are talking about. We should have beaten Stanford on the road. Yeah, we missed a few guys. So did OSU.

WE NEED A DEFENSE

 

[88ND]

Not sure what any of you are talking about. We should have beaten Stanford on the road. Yeah, we missed a few guys. So did OSU.

WE NEED A DEFENSE

Umm...Wtf are YOU talking about?.please follow along.
The OP states that ND can't win in their own current strict structure. Win being winning a big game against a big opponent on a big stage. Claims it isn't coaching but rather the self imposed rules and policies that prohibit them from doing things Alabama or OSU do.

I'm saying I disagree with that because Stanford is nearly a mirror of us yet in the big game they don't repeatedly wet themselves.

Mindset, confidence, enthusiastic play, emotion, chip on shoulder....all begin with a message and tone from the top on down. Sadly BK's been consistent in this department with the team playing flat etc in these big games. This is a reoccurring problem.

 

[Granite45]

I don't know guys and girls. I didn't even watch yesterday's game simply because I knew what the outcome would be again. Another mediocre ND team getting throttled by a far superior team. It simply wasn't worth taking away from the other things I have going on to tune in and watch it.

Isn't this the basic definition of a fair-weather fan?

If you do not care enough to watch, not sure why others would care much about your opinion in this issue. Do you only root for the team that wins the championship? Seems you must change your allegiance on nearly an annual basis.

 

[TurnoverMachine]

Just can't understand how a long time fan of ND football would choose not to watch ND in a major bowl game.

Have you watched ND in major bowl games the last two decades? There's your answer.