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The defense...

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Sep 9, 2013
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I know the sky has fallen to a lot of you and want BVG dismissed... And we can debate his schemes forever...but there is one common theme that is not debatable.

Tackling. Atrocious and no other word describes the state of our tackling in 2015.

A question.....do we still lose both games this year if we were a sound tackling team?
This is something irrelevant to 3,4 or 5 star recruits. It is about simple technique and repetition.

BVG probably doesn't need to keep real estate listings handy if we can just do that simple God Damn thing.....TACKLE!
 
There's no question that last night, our tackling left a lot to be desired. It appears we want to knock people off their feet versus wrap them up. I see with with a lot of college teams. As far as BVG is concerned, my concern isn't about his knowledge, it is whether or not college kids can execute his defense. In the pros, those guys live it 24/7. College have to go to class...
 
We better hope BK has fixing the defense a priority or get ready for more average play in 16.
 
We better hope BK has fixing the defense a priority or get ready for more average play in 16.

"You are what your record says you are" though I would think fixing the Red Zone problems are just as a priority if not more.
 
"You are what your record says you are" though I would think fixing the Red Zone problems are just as a priority if not more.
No doubt but I've been saying this for a while. This has become a staple of Brian Kelly years in the running unfortunately. Particularly the 10 inward he just calls it like he were at the 50. There isn't enough room. Period.
 
It is that same reason that the 2 point plays usually don't work. ND MUST have a power running game that is effective inside the 20 and on two point plays.
The defense is another issue that just doesn't seem to get better. If Smith stays, you will have several guys on the defense and at each level with 3 years in the same defense. If they don't get better next year, let's hope the powers that be see the need to reboot.
 
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ND needs to get some REAL MEN on the Defence. ND's defence is not MANLY enough. :eek:
 
I know the sky has fallen to a lot of you and want BVG dismissed... And we can debate his schemes forever...but there is one common theme that is not debatable.

Tackling. Atrocious and no other word describes the state of our tackling in 2015.

A question.....do we still lose both games this year if we were a sound tackling team?
This is something irrelevant to 3,4 or 5 star recruits. It is about simple technique and repetition.

BVG probably doesn't need to keep real estate listings handy if we can just do that simple God Damn thing.....TACKLE!


watched the 27 yd pass play at the end - what in hell was BVG plan? hope they miss the FG?

there were recievers open everywhere! Hogan had a choice to throw to any of 3 open recievers!

that is entirely on the coach, it was a defensive scheme for disaster! This loss is entirely on BVG.

All gaffaws prior to the final 30 seconds were nullified by taking the lead. The that defensive akugnment/scheme was a formula for losing!
 
Isn't tackling on the defensive coordinator?! Why did a BC team full of two and three stars hit so hard and tackle so well and make our vaunted offense look so damn bad? Isn't it coaching? Guys like Tenuta and BVG are all scheme. Give me someone who is going to teach the kids to make a play while keeping it simple.

#65 in Rushing Defense -- not gonna get us to the final four. (Alabama is #1, Iowa #6, MSU #16, Ohio State #23 Clemson #24, Oklahoma #46,) And don't tell me it is recruiting -- look at MSU and Iowa's rosters...

#39 Total Defense -- Alabama #2, Clemson #7, OSU #10, Iowa #21, Michigan State # 27, Oklahoma #31) Better... but still not good enough to get us in.

#37 Scoring Defense - all the others in the top twenty

Nothing against Kelly and he deserves credit for hiring him but Diaco was the reason we went to the natty in '12. We won with our defense that year.

Agree on the red zone, but rewatch the game -- if Martin and Carlisle don't screw up we have two more scores! Win by ten. Our Red Zone will get better as our QBs develop and gain experience.

Finally, you guys wanted to run the ball more and we did just that. Nearly had two guys over 1000 yards with nearly 8 yards a carry and Kizer goes for nearly 500. Imagine some packages with Malik and Wmbush next year -- I really think Sanford and Kelly need to think out of the box and run some crazy red zone packages for both of those guys to keep them happy and in south bend! (Think Florida under Urbie.)

But I do think we need a new defensive coordinator. Get us in the top 25-30 in the above categories and our offense will win games for us...
 
watched the 27 yd pass play at the end - what in hell was BVG plan? hope they miss the FG?

there were recievers open everywhere! Hogan had a choice to throw to any of 3 open recievers!

that is entirely on the coach, it was a defensive scheme for disaster! This loss is entirely on BVG.

All gaffaws prior to the final 30 seconds were nullified by taking the lead. The that defensive akugnment/scheme was a formula for losing!
It's the prevent defense. Unfortunately it usually prevents your team from winning.
 
Isn't tackling on the defensive coordinator?! Why did a BC team full of two and three stars hit so hard and tackle so well and make our vaunted offense look so damn bad? Isn't it coaching? Guys like Tenuta and BVG are all scheme. Give me someone who is going to teach the kids to make a play while keeping it simple.

#65 in Rushing Defense -- not gonna get us to the final four. (Alabama is #1, Iowa #6, MSU #16, Ohio State #23 Clemson #24, Oklahoma #46,) And don't tell me it is recruiting -- look at MSU and Iowa's rosters...

#39 Total Defense -- Alabama #2, Clemson #7, OSU #10, Iowa #21, Michigan State # 27, Oklahoma #31) Better... but still not good enough to get us in.

#37 Scoring Defense - all the others in the top twenty

Nothing against Kelly and he deserves credit for hiring him but Diaco was the reason we went to the natty in '12. We won with our defense that year.

Agree on the red zone, but rewatch the game -- if Martin and Carlisle don't screw up we have two more scores! Win by ten. Our Red Zone will get better as our QBs develop and gain experience.

Finally, you guys wanted to run the ball more and we did just that. Nearly had two guys over 1000 yards with nearly 8 yards a carry and Kizer goes for nearly 500. Imagine some packages with Malik and Wmbush next year -- I really think Sanford and Kelly need to think out of the box and run some crazy red zone packages for both of those guys to keep them happy and in south bend! (Think Florida under Urbie.)

But I do think we need a new defensive coordinator. Get us in the top 25-30 in the above categories and our offense will win games for us...

Excellent post. Besides the defense the other area that needs to be fixed is the RZ offense. This has been a disaster for 6 years and needs to be fixed. If ND could have turned a lot of those FG's into TDs vs Stanford they win easily.
 
If there was any single moment that was a game changer Saturday night, IMHO, it was the face mask penalty . It was the second of the night by the DL I think. The defense had no room for error and that extra 15 made the yardage needed for a FG more than manageable for the Stanford offense.
 
a poster on TOS - after ND took the lead posted,
no penaties
no prevent D
no big plays

merry christmas!
 
Isn't tackling on the defensive coordinator?! Why did a BC team full of two and three stars hit so hard and tackle so well and make our vaunted offense look so damn bad? Isn't it coaching? Guys like Tenuta and BVG are all scheme. Give me someone who is going to teach the kids to make a play while keeping it simple.

#65 in Rushing Defense -- not gonna get us to the final four. (Alabama is #1, Iowa #6, MSU #16, Ohio State #23 Clemson #24, Oklahoma #46,) And don't tell me it is recruiting -- look at MSU and Iowa's rosters...

#39 Total Defense -- Alabama #2, Clemson #7, OSU #10, Iowa #21, Michigan State # 27, Oklahoma #31) Better... but still not good enough to get us in.

#37 Scoring Defense - all the others in the top twenty

Nothing against Kelly and he deserves credit for hiring him but Diaco was the reason we went to the natty in '12. We won with our defense that year.

Agree on the red zone, but rewatch the game -- if Martin and Carlisle don't screw up we have two more scores! Win by ten. Our Red Zone will get better as our QBs develop and gain experience.

Finally, you guys wanted to run the ball more and we did just that. Nearly had two guys over 1000 yards with nearly 8 yards a carry and Kizer goes for nearly 500. Imagine some packages with Malik and Wmbush next year -- I really think Sanford and Kelly need to think out of the box and run some crazy red zone packages for both of those guys to keep them happy and in south bend! (Think Florida under Urbie.)

But I do think we need a new defensive coordinator. Get us in the top 25-30 in the above categories and our offense will win games for us...


YEP---DEFENSE Wins Championships!!!
 
I don't get it. I am not saying BVG should stay or go but it goes both ways. It wasn't only the defense's fault on the outcomes of these games.

BK needs to fix the offense and T.O. and drop passes. At least Special Teams was a huge improvement compared to years past. It just boggles my mind if we score when we should have and the defense does not even come into question. We left at least 19 points on Stanford's field. 19.

Look back at just the last few games. W.F, B.C. and Stanford. Hell we score on 50% of the Red Zone chances and neither of these games are close. How many points did we leave on the field all season. Hell go back and look at the Clemson game, we make 50% more of the drops and we win, not to mention in the second half receivers running free.

I know in reality what we did and where we ended up with. I said at the beginning of the year we would be 10-2 (conversations at work). Losing to USC and one team we should not. Prediction was right on record but wrong teams. I'll take this year and get ready for the next. Next year we go 11-1, losing to either USC or Stanford.

What did you all honestly think we would end up at after we lost J.J before the year and M.Z and T.F in the first two games?
 
watched the 27 yd pass play at the end - what in hell was BVG plan? hope they miss the FG?

there were recievers open everywhere! Hogan had a choice to throw to any of 3 open recievers!

that is entirely on the coach, it was a defensive scheme for disaster! This loss is entirely on BVG.

All gaffaws prior to the final 30 seconds were nullified by taking the lead. The that defensive akugnment/scheme was a formula for losing!

I'm not Nick Saban but I've coached DB's for a minute. Now I know the fact I coached and share my opinion drives some posters crazy, I'm not doing this brag, just sharing my opinion and sharing that I have a little bit of training on the subject, so if you could refrain from the snarky,sarcastic, personal remarks about me and my career that would be great.

IMO with the amount of time left in the game you want to try and prevent the opponent from completing passes and getting out of bounds to stop the clock. Running clock is the friend of the defense.

So the ND defensive backs were playing outside technique or a "trap" defense. Most teams in that situation want to run out breaking routes to stop the clock. The outside technique "traps" the defender in bounds and keeps the clock ticking. Good idea and good strategy.

As Brian Kelly stated in the post game presser you have to play tighter on the seam route. Even though you are allowing the receiver a free inside release up the seam, at some point you have to realize he is not running an out route and have to hug up on him and make a play on the ball. ND simply allowed him to run down the seam and catch the football.

So IMO the scheme was fine. The execution was poor, and when you factor in the magnitude of the game it was a disaster. Does ND not practice that situation enough? Or did the player simply make a mistake? I don't know.

A lot of mistakes which led to big plays happened on the back line this year. But the safeties in the BVG defense are asked to do a lot of things that Bob Diaco usually never asked his safeties to do. He sends them quite often on blitzes, they often play near the LOS on run downs, and they are often put in man to man pass defense situations.

Diaco just kind of left Smith and Motta on the hash, played zone and allowed them to ball hawk and knock receivers silly.

Have a good one fellas!
 
I'm not Nick Saban but I've coached DB's for a minute. Now I know the fact I coached and share my opinion drives some posters crazy, I'm not doing this brag, just sharing my opinion and sharing that I have a little bit of training on the subject, so if you could refrain from the snarky,sarcastic, personal remarks about me and my career that would be great.

IMO with the amount of time left in the game you want to try and prevent the opponent from completing passes and getting out of bounds to stop the clock. Running clock is the friend of the defense.

So the ND defensive backs were playing outside technique or a "trap" defense. Most teams in that situation want to run out breaking routes to stop the clock. The outside technique "traps" the defender in bounds and keeps the clock ticking. Good idea and good strategy.

As Brian Kelly stated in the post game presser you have to play tighter on the seam route. Even though you are allowing the receiver a free inside release up the seam, at some point you have to realize he is not running an out route and have to hug up on him and make a play on the ball. ND simply allowed him to run down the seam and catch the football.

So IMO the scheme was fine. The execution was poor, and when you factor in the magnitude of the game it was a disaster. Does ND not practice that situation enough? Or did the player simply make a mistake? I don't know.

A lot of mistakes which led to big plays happened on the back line this year. But the safeties in the BVG defense are asked to do a lot of things that Bob Diaco usually never asked his safeties to do. He sends them quite often on blitzes, they often play near the LOS on run downs, and they are often put in man to man pass defense situations.

Diaco just kind of left Smith and Motta on the hash, played zone and allowed them to ball hawk and knock receivers silly.

Have a good one fellas!
Disagree on the need to play outside technique. That's the wrong scheme for the situation because (a) Stanford had all 3 if their timeouts and (b) the clock stops on a first down in college.
 
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Disagree on the need to play outside technique. That's the wrong scheme for the situation because (a) Stanford had all 3 if their timeouts and (b) the click stops on a first down in college.

This. That technique would have been fine if Stanford was down by 4 or more and needed a TD. That scheme was fine before the facemask penalty. In that situation with 3 TO left it was absolutely the wrong scheme and all of the facts of the game prove that out.
 
go look at the defensive alignment; it was conceding 15-20 yds on passes. That is not execution! it is poor design and incredibly inept planning!

good grief, posting a long winded attempt at technical explanation ignore the reality before your eyes!

3 wr's had 10 yrds w/o a defender, all 10 yrds into the se ondary and the DB's were still backing up!

look at it stop action.

(if you can't learn, at least don't teach!)
 
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I'm not Nick Saban but I've coached DB's for a minute. Now I know the fact I coached and share my opinion drives some posters crazy, I'm not doing this brag, just sharing my opinion and sharing that I have a little bit of training on the subject, so if you could refrain from the snarky,sarcastic, personal remarks about me and my career that would be great.

IMO with the amount of time left in the game you want to try and prevent the opponent from completing passes and getting out of bounds to stop the clock. Running clock is the friend of the defense.

So the ND defensive backs were playing outside technique or a "trap" defense. Most teams in that situation want to run out breaking routes to stop the clock. The outside technique "traps" the defender in bounds and keeps the clock ticking. Good idea and good strategy.

As Brian Kelly stated in the post game presser you have to play tighter on the seam route. Even though you are allowing the receiver a free inside release up the seam, at some point you have to realize he is not running an out route and have to hug up on him and make a play on the ball. ND simply allowed him to run down the seam and catch the football.

So IMO the scheme was fine. The execution was poor, and when you factor in the magnitude of the game it was a disaster. Does ND not practice that situation enough? Or did the player simply make a mistake? I don't know.

A lot of mistakes which led to big plays happened on the back line this year. But the safeties in the BVG defense are asked to do a lot of things that Bob Diaco usually never asked his safeties to do. He sends them quite often on blitzes, they often play near the LOS on run downs, and they are often put in man to man pass defense situations.

Diaco just kind of left Smith and Motta on the hash, played zone and allowed them to ball hawk and knock receivers silly.

Have a good one fellas!
That's wrong all over the place. Stanford starting from their own 20 with no timeouts and 30 seconds to go, yes, that is the right defense. You can try and get fancy all you want with those names but they were just in a deep zone. There was no outside technique....it was starting the play off 15 yards deep ....back pedal hard...nobody get behind you. Moreover Jaylon was still in the middle spying.
As soon as they got the ball I said Jaylon needs to blitz or cover the tight end. Neither of which happened.
 
Perseverare if my posts posts are "long winded" perhaps you should skip over them and refrain from making snide comments. It adds nothing of value to a conversation. (if you can't learn, at least don't teach!) I have no idea what this means. I've taught defensive backs for 23 years. How long have you coached defensive backs?

Everybody is in agreement the coverage was bad. I'm not defending the coverage, nor am I defending the coaches OR players. ND did have the ball thrown over their heads several times during the game. I am confident if ND played press coverage and got beat by a 65 yard TD pass, folks would be saying they should of given some more space to the receivers. Hindsight is always 20/20
 
Pretty obvious our DBs were more concerned about preventing a TD than a field goal, and they got burned. You can scheme to take away the sideline, but you can't concede that much space in the middle of the field. The face mask penalty changed the calculus significantly, but our DBs played as though the field was still fifteen yards longer. Terrible ending to a great game.
 
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the c
Perseverare if my posts posts are "long winded" perhaps you should skip over them and refrain from making snide comments. It adds nothing of value to a conversation. (if you can't learn, at least don't teach!) I have no idea what this means. I've taught defensive backs for 23 years. How long have you coached defensive backs?

Everybody is in agreement the coverage was bad. I'm not defending the coverage, nor am I defending the coaches OR players. ND did have the ball thrown over their heads several times during the game. I am confident if ND played press coverage and got beat by a 65 yard TD pass, folks would be saying they should of given some more space to the receivers. Hindsight is always 20/20


the coverage they were in was bad! if you freeze the play when the WRs are about 10 yrds into the secondary - those are just poor positioning of defenders! Sure Joe was not deep enough or too far to his right but 3 ND defenders are not even in the play! One standing at the line, doing absolutely nothing, 2 DB's defending the hail mary! what - only a FG was needed! nope, this is entirely on BVG! he blew this game; and he probably blew it in practice! BVG did not have a defense ready for this scenario! how do we know? watch the result!
 
I think the red zone offense will improve next year. ESB will replace Chris Brown and Alize Jones will have a year under his belt. Those are 2 huge red zone threats. Add that in with the running game and Will Fuller coming back we are gonna be hard to stop. Also factor in 3 QBs with experience so there will be no fear of running with the QB. If teams want to stop the RB we will be able to run with the QB 20 times if necessary.
 
Like I said above. We left 19 points on the field because of turn overs and red zones woes. We get those and we are not in this position at the end of the game.

I just get tired of hearing about the defense when the offense actually plays in the game also.

This is a team game and the issue is on both sides of the ball. They both must be fixed. The defense is not always the scape goat.

Let's just enjoy the 10 win season and get ready for the Bowl Game. When was the last time we had 2 10 win seasons on a four year span.
 
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Like I said above. We left 19 points on the field because of turn overs and red zones woes. We get those and we are not in this position at the end of the game.

I just get tired of hearing about the defense when the offense actually plays in the game also.

This is a team game and the issue is on both sides of the ball. They both must be fixed. The defense is not always the scape goat.

Let's just enjoy the 10 win season and get ready for the Bowl Game. When was the last time we had 2 10 win seasons on a four year span.
Yes the RZ offense needs to be addressed and improved on, but let's be honest here; when you score 36 points and have 30 seconds to defend. You should without a doubt win that game.
 
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Always two sides.

You would think we would be blessed to score a touchdown on at least 50% of red zone possessions but we didn't.

It is what is is and it was what it was.

Just quit blaming the defense every game.
 
Yes the RZ offense needs to be addressed and improved on, but let's be honest here; when you score 36 points and have 30 seconds to defend. You should without a doubt win that game.
At the very least put the best foot forward. As in...it was clearly obvious the tight end was a matchup nightmare for our secondary. In that situation he was not going to beat us for 75 yards. The one player who has the size to challenge him was Jaylon.
Jaylon should have blitzed or covered the tight end there. Period. Instead he was being used as a ****ing spy.....which we didn't need him to spy there. Joe Schmidt could have spied the QB there. A ten yard run doesn't hurt us there but a 30 yard completion sealed our fate. Moreover if Jaylon blitzes there Hogan does NOT make that completion. Stanford sent nobody out underneath right where Jaylon was occupying.
Hindsight coaching is always easier but it appears the staff just had no sense of feel on that last drive. Jaylon might as well been on the sideline. Ridiculous
 
That's wrong all over the place. Stanford starting from their own 20 with no timeouts and 30 seconds to go, yes, that is the right defense. You can try and get fancy all you want with those names but they were just in a deep zone. There was no outside technique....it was starting the play off 15 yards deep ....back pedal hard...nobody get behind you. Moreover Jaylon was still in the middle spying.
As soon as they got the ball I said Jaylon needs to blitz or cover the tight end. Neither of which happened.
go figure, wrong again !
 
At the very least put the best foot forward. As in...it was clearly obvious the tight end was a matchup nightmare for our secondary. In that situation he was not going to beat us for 75 yards. The one player who has the size to challenge him was Jaylon.
Jaylon should have blitzed or covered the tight end there. Period. Instead he was being used as a ****ing spy.....which we didn't need him to spy there. Joe Schmidt could have spied the QB there. A ten yard run doesn't hurt us there but a 30 yard completion sealed our fate. Moreover if Jaylon blitzes there Hogan does NOT make that completion. Stanford sent nobody out underneath right where Jaylon was occupying.
Hindsight coaching is always easier but it appears the staff just had no sense of feel on that last drive. Jaylon might as well been on the sideline. Ridiculous
no feel ? pot meet kettle !
 
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Pretty obvious our DBs were more concerned about preventing a TD than a field goal, and they got burned. You can scheme to take away the sideline, but you can't concede that much space in the middle of the field. The face mask penalty changed the calculus significantly, but our DBs played as though the field was still fifteen yards longer. Terrible ending to a great game.

Agreed and a really smart post. After getting the ball chucked over your head a few times, having a safety back line that has been having problems all year AND having players missing, It is easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and lose confidence in your players and choke a call,

I don't know if that's what happened Saturday. But it does happen.
 
Like I said above. We left 19 points on the field because of turn overs and red zones woes. We get those and we are not in this position at the end of the game.

I just get tired of hearing about the defense when the offense actually plays in the game also.

This is a team game and the issue is on both sides of the ball. They both must be fixed. The defense is not always the scape goat.

Let's just enjoy the 10 win season and get ready for the Bowl Game. When was the last time we had 2 10 win seasons on a four year span.


the last 30 seconds and 75 yrds after the offense clea s the slate of all preceding errors - puts the burden on the defense!
 
the last 30 seconds and 75 yrds after the offense clea s the slate of all preceding errors - puts the burden on the defense!

Wow. So if it was reversed on the offense had 30 seconds to score and we didn't then we would finally be putting some responsibility on the offense. Great they get a pass the whole season in all these games.

I am done with the whole conversation because I can see that there is no responsibility for the offense in all these games.

Coach Holtz said it best about coaching at Notre Dame. "You win 10 games and the complaints are you did not win enough. You go undefeated and win the Championship the next year and the complaints are, you did not win by enough points." Paraphrasing but you get the idea.

Sometimes I wonder how many actually played the game or coached.
 
I'm not a coach and never have been; I've never played college ball or, for all intents and purposes, HS ball either. I am a fan. As a fan, I saw some good things and some bad things on D this year. Honestly, I thought the tackling was a mixed bag with lots of great open field tackles and lots of missed tackles. What I did notice, however, was that we had very few turnovers. I loved how BC players were constantly trying to rip the ball out of our ballcarriers' hands.

We didn't have a lot of turnovers last year either. Is BVG's scheme not inclined to induce turnovers?
 
I've played and coached, and coach Kelly summed it up best in his post game. You win and loss as a team, period.

Of course BK is going to say that. He's not going to call out anyone in public. But, his post game pressers all season long tell a different story. He was asked the same questions and gave the same answers about the defense. Week after week. He knows there is a problem that won't be fixed by the bowl game. It wasn't fixed by game twelve. The "O" put the defense in a position to win the game and through scheme and execution, it was a fail. The most important series of the season. You are not going to get yourself in the play-offs or even be successful in the play-offs when your defense is 107th in takeaways and in the 60s in run and pass defense. Not going to happen.
 
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