was thinking about the possibilities of our d-line and came away a little more positive than I first thought I would. There r some ifs but I like the potential of jones (cross fingers he stays healthy), Rochelle, tillery, trumbetti w/ cage & Hayes in the rotation. Who I am missing for decent playing time? I see this group surprising and playing better than expected.
Surprise group
- Thread starter francade
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'better than expected'; what exactly does that mean?
A healthy Jones is a solid if not spectacular, JT has to show the fire to get to the next level. Rochelle will be Rochelle, that is solid better than average but just below AA level (but could get 3rd team or H.M) Cage will be solid vs the run.
There is a drop off after those three starters (D Hayes is the unknown; he might be a surprise contributor) When you have DL by committee, there is a message in that. They should be good vs the ordinary teams, but against the Stanford OL, where will the pass rush come from?
A healthy Jones is a solid if not spectacular, JT has to show the fire to get to the next level. Rochelle will be Rochelle, that is solid better than average but just below AA level (but could get 3rd team or H.M) Cage will be solid vs the run.
There is a drop off after those three starters (D Hayes is the unknown; he might be a surprise contributor) When you have DL by committee, there is a message in that. They should be good vs the ordinary teams, but against the Stanford OL, where will the pass rush come from?
when do you find the time to post here given that you are obviously an NFL scout with all your in depth analysis.
Pass rush is my biggest concern for ND. Rochell is more of big run stopping d-end and Trumbetti will just be an average d-end in my opinion. I also don't know that Jones or Tillery can provide consistent pass rush either. However, I do think this front 7 will not be getting pushed around and should be better in reducing rushing yards allowed. With that said, ND should hopefully see longer second and third downs. When in in the second and long and third and long situations and ND will likely be in their nickel, I'm hoping to see a D-Line of D. Hayes and Kareem at end, and Rochell and Jay Hayes at DT. I think this is the best and most talented/athletic lineup to create pass rush. I just hope D. Hayes has fully recoved and that he along with Kareem will be ready for the college action, as they will be true freshman, but did enroll in the spring. Also, I'm not holding breath, but there's other unproven bodies that could surprise us such as M. Dew-Tredawy, B. Tissaum, J. Bonner, and E. Taylor. I suspect both J. Okwara and A. Ogundeji will redshirt this year.
Perse, if you're have trouble w/ the written word, there are some remedial reading courses you can take. What did u think I meant when I said better than expected? You do know what expectations are, correct?
I believe this group will surprise & play better than expected if they all stay healthy. Jones & Rochelle are proven quality players and the emergence of trumbetti & tillery will surprise us all, imo. I disagree w/ an earlier poster that thinks trumbetti will just be average. I look for him to have a breakout year. He's gotten bigger & has an excellent burst & I think will get close to double digit sacks this year. Cage is an excellent run stopper & can push the middle of the pocket to create disruption. All in all, I think this group surprises & plays better than most think.
I believe this group will surprise & play better than expected if they all stay healthy. Jones & Rochelle are proven quality players and the emergence of trumbetti & tillery will surprise us all, imo. I disagree w/ an earlier poster that thinks trumbetti will just be average. I look for him to have a breakout year. He's gotten bigger & has an excellent burst & I think will get close to double digit sacks this year. Cage is an excellent run stopper & can push the middle of the pocket to create disruption. All in all, I think this group surprises & plays better than most think.
francade
I think the defensive expectations for '16 are pretty much all over the board. I was trying to get a more descriptive opinion from you. You mentioned your 'first thought' ? And you reference "Better than expected"? By who? You? Or a general perception of fans? What were your 1st thoughts about the position group as a whole, what did you learn to change that opinion to become "more positive"
Who do you see as the starters 3/4 4/3 setups and who do you see as the 'sack leader' for '16.
And do you think that the defense will be improved for '16 over '15.
(jmo: off what we know only Rochelle and Cage are known as far as ability; Jones (off injury, was just beginning to develop, JT has been inconsistant and needs to play with more 'force' ; all the rest are best decribed as 'developing'? Only the Fr. Hayes is the mystery, he could be a major factor to a RS)
I think the defensive expectations for '16 are pretty much all over the board. I was trying to get a more descriptive opinion from you. You mentioned your 'first thought' ? And you reference "Better than expected"? By who? You? Or a general perception of fans? What were your 1st thoughts about the position group as a whole, what did you learn to change that opinion to become "more positive"
Who do you see as the starters 3/4 4/3 setups and who do you see as the 'sack leader' for '16.
And do you think that the defense will be improved for '16 over '15.
(jmo: off what we know only Rochelle and Cage are known as far as ability; Jones (off injury, was just beginning to develop, JT has been inconsistant and needs to play with more 'force' ; all the rest are best decribed as 'developing'? Only the Fr. Hayes is the mystery, he could be a major factor to a RS)
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I think the D-line will be good-to- excellent against the run, provided that ND's WILL and MIKE make sound tackles in their run lanes as well.
The pass rush , IMO will be the tale of two different situations. I think ND will struggle to generate a significant pash rush out of their base look, but when they're in their sub packages, their zone blitzes have a chance to be much improved. I love have Rochell jump down inside, Daelin Hayes and Trumbetti on the field together , with Crawford and Tranquil coming down into the box as the 'free man'.
The pass rush , IMO will be the tale of two different situations. I think ND will struggle to generate a significant pash rush out of their base look, but when they're in their sub packages, their zone blitzes have a chance to be much improved. I love have Rochell jump down inside, Daelin Hayes and Trumbetti on the field together , with Crawford and Tranquil coming down into the box as the 'free man'.
^ agree with that - there really is no guy that can be singled out as a pass rush threat.
ND was more than Ok vs the run in '15; especially when cage was in there.
We better all hope Rochelle stays healthy all season. The DL would be affected all along the line.
The wild card is Tillery, does he come in and play with 'fire in his belly', if so then he could be a disruptive force inside. The season will rise or fall on the ability to keep Jones, Rochelle, Cage and Tillery healthy and on the field.
Cage because he is the guy that OL don't seem to be able to move off the line of scrimmage. He may not be the most mobile, but he seems to be the most immovable.
ND was more than Ok vs the run in '15; especially when cage was in there.
We better all hope Rochelle stays healthy all season. The DL would be affected all along the line.
The wild card is Tillery, does he come in and play with 'fire in his belly', if so then he could be a disruptive force inside. The season will rise or fall on the ability to keep Jones, Rochelle, Cage and Tillery healthy and on the field.
Cage because he is the guy that OL don't seem to be able to move off the line of scrimmage. He may not be the most mobile, but he seems to be the most immovable.
Sorry for jumping down ur throat perse, thought u were being a wiseass. Anyhow, from my own perspective, my initial thoughts were that we can't lose players like day & okwara and not have some drop off. But as I said, if injuries don't creep in as they've done so badly for ND the last couple years, this group can be good & balanced. Our first six or seven will be improved from last year from another year of experience. I look for trumbetti & cage to emerge. I envision more pass rush from all of our dlineman than most here do. Rochelle is out best lineman, imo, and will get to the passer this year, or get doubled for someone else to. If jones is right, he is an excellent pocket disrupter and cage will definitely get some inside push to force qbs into our DEs. Stay healthy and this group is a positive for ND this year, which to some, may come as a surprise.
francade
just a gut feeling hunch here, but I think ND, defensively, will land another BIG one in this class. Shocker Big!
just a gut feeling hunch here, but I think ND, defensively, will land another BIG one in this class. Shocker Big!
I too expect Trumbetti to breakout and be better than the 3 star player Pers has topped him out at. I agree with IIO that the D Line will be nearing great, don't see much weakness, even in the two deep - only question mark being the pass rush concern. Think this will be the D's best unit.
As great as Jaylon was, the LBs were awful as a unit, and expect an upgrade. Secondary will be very interesting, how good is Crawford? Will Max breakout? 7-5, 12-0- I love everySaturday. Getting close! We can now soon stop talking about 5.7, 6.0 and 90, 93.5 recruits.
As great as Jaylon was, the LBs were awful as a unit, and expect an upgrade. Secondary will be very interesting, how good is Crawford? Will Max breakout? 7-5, 12-0- I love everySaturday. Getting close! We can now soon stop talking about 5.7, 6.0 and 90, 93.5 recruits.
