Solid read from TOS: "People didn't start out "hating" Brian Kelly"

[cgvr]

"And I'm sure he's an excellent and loving and caring husband and father and dog owner and neighbor. Probably tips his barber well too. A real mensch. I understand that he ruffles some feathers in the non-athletic department administration because he's non shy about throwing his weight around and making demands and "changing the culture" and carving out his territory and establishing his fiefdom. But let's just say he's not revolting like Weis was in the office (I'm not going to suck the (blank) of some 17 year old to get them to come to Notre Dame). Nor is a Machiavellian operator like Davie. Nor is he a lazy, disorganized, incompetent boob like TW. So he's got those comparative advantages going for him.

But the notion that it's so unfair that this "hate" "came out of "nowhere" is absurd. He sowed it by his actions.

This ranged from the purposeful tearing down of the identity of what he viewed as dowdy and old fashions and rebuilding into what he saw as modern and nifty. Jumbotrons, turf, style of play, it all weaves together.

Alumni had no real reason to dislike the guy back when he first started - there were a few voices that just thought he was a mediocre hire and a missed opportunity. But he really started with a tabula rasa, and if he played his cards rights, he had the opportunity to build good will.

He sent a signal that resistance to his vision was futile in the Tulsa game when there was an understandable reaction to his objectively boneheaded end zone pass "get used to it." That really set the tone for what would become a prickly relationship alumni who didn't cotton to his bull in a china shop, piss on the living room rug personality.

What really ignited the negative feelings was his serial mistreatment of players in his purple face sideline tirades and post game press conference finger pointing. Many alumni are rightfully and reflexively loyal to players and revolted by the low rent behavior of an enormously compensated coach humiliating players on national TV and/or on the public record. He does it time and again, spectacularly and horrifyingly - Crist(repeatedly); TJ Jones, Grimes, Golson, Kizer, Mustipher, and many others.

So yes, there is ample evidence that he is a bad guy, unfit for Notre Dame. Which does not mean that he is physically abusive to family (just subordinate employees, apparently). and no, it's not all about whether he's winning or losing, as XXXXX would like to talk out his ass.

He'll probably go on to do fine at a school where Brian Kelly can "be Brian Kelly" on the sidelines.

F****ng pr***."

 

[aoi_toku]

I thought when he went off on that student coaching assistant, "Welp, he just went from hard nosed coach to grade A prick in one simple action."

 

[perseverare]

I was happy as a pig in slop!

It was 1st how the Crist thing went down that made me hesitant. Then it was like 'baby steps'.
Then finally it was Kelly that revealed himself with 'get used to it'; not the words but the actions and results.

 

[IrishInOntario]

It's all about winning. If he won like Saban and Meyer, nobody would care. Thanks for sharing the read, and I can empathize with it, but I have to disagree in many ways... Not because I'm a Kelly lover, but because I think the point is being missed.

Has anyone watched Nick Saban complete and utterly crucify a kid on the sidelines after taking a personal foul penalty? I've seen it numerous times. But when Saban does it, it's part of football. Did anybody watch him spend 2 minutes, on the sidelines, in front of everyone, cursing out Lane Kiffen a couple weeks back, over play calling in the final minutes of a blow out win?... He was irate in from of the cameras on National TV. When asked about the scenario, Saban simply said "It was an ass chewing" and essentially told the reporter to suck it up and deal with it... Ever watch a Saban press conference? It's about the same as watching a Belicheck press conference, except with less class and more vulgarity.

It's time to move on from Brian Kelly, but not because of his mannerisms on the sidelines. Unless you think Alabama should fire Nick Saban for being among most disliked, dicks in all of college football, who doesn't give two ****s about what you think of how nice he is.

 

[perseverare]

Kelly has nothing in the bank; Saban and Meyer are proven winners. You put them in a conversation where they do not have relevance.

Behavior perception is often linked to success. Failures get no concession.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

its all about methodology...i.e. method to the madness. Minus the method...all there is is madness. Holtz yelled at his players...but they understood him, his methods and his expectations. There was security in his purpose. I highly doubt that Kelly's players understand him, his methods or his expectations...he is too distant from them by choice.

 

[IrishInOntario]

So am I understanding people correctly?

You're argument is that you should act like someone you are not, until you've won a lot, then you can become a complete asshole because your success qualifies you to be a dick?

My point is this. People are pissed that Brian Kelly is losing games. That's why his demeanour is an issue. If he was winning games, he'd tell the media to STFU like Saban does, and like even Holtz did in his own way, and you'd all simply say "I don't care, we're winning.".... Focus on the issue. Kelly's demeanour is no more an issue than any other coach's. His current level of success is the problem. People simply start making it personal when the guy starts losing.

Reporters are maggots for the most part. Especially the people the local media members. They are often fan boys of a particular team, whose articles are written based on how they personally feel about a coach, which is derived from the success that coach has... Put it this way. Nobody writes a bad thing about Nick Saban, despite the fact that he publicly embarrasses media members in front of their own peers for questioning him. Why? Because they are his bitch. They don't care if he thinks they're maggots, because he's winning. If Brian Kelly was winning the media would treat him the same way... The second you start losing, they turn the tables on you. The years worth being treated like sub creatures start to influence your writing. Journalists love nothing more than to stick it a coach when it's going poorly. The same coach they had raw knees from felating when he was winning.

Can Brian Kelly be a jerk. Yep. Is he more of a jerk than about 50 coaches I could name off the top of my head. Some successful, some ultra successful and some not. Nope... Why is it an issue. Because for some reason people feel a need to idolize a winner regardless of his character, until he starts losing, then it's ok to assassinate his character.

You're doing it in your political realm right now. Donald Trump comes out of nowhere to win the Republican candidacy. He's among the biggest d-bags on the planet. He's beyond full of himself and treats others like shit. But he was surging towards the Presidency because people respected his success and turned a blind eye to his bullshit because they worshipped his power and fame... Now it's not going to well. Hell, he's now running as an independent. More and more shit is coming out about his personality, but really is it anything we didn't know?.... Pfffff of course not. It's simply an issue because it's pretty clear he isn't going to win anymore. Now people are piling on.

The same idiots who supported the D-Bag that had the brilliant idea of building a massive wall that the tooth fairy was magically going to pay for, are now turning on him because he treats women inappropriately.... Nooooo.... That's shocking. And what's best is that the same voters who put him in position to get the candidacy, he's now turned his back from, basically saying he's now going to run as an independent.

I know that turned political for a second, but coaching is very political in its own right. You either want a winner, or you don't. You knew Brian Kelly's personality coming in. Or at least you should have if you did 5 seconds of research. He's always been this guy. But when he was a winner and the new shiny toy, you loved him. Now that isn't winning, he's an asshole. Newsflash, he was always an asshole. So is Saban, so is Meyer and for a lot of his career, so was Holtz... But they're more successful assholes, so America forgives and forgets... Until they lose a couple games.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

So am I understanding people correctly?

You're argument is that you should act like someone you are not, until you've won a lot, then you can become a complete asshole because your success qualifies you to be a dick?

My point is this. People are pissed that Brian Kelly is losing games. That's why his demeanour is an issue. If he was winning games, he'd tell the media to STFU like Saban does, and like even Holtz did in his own way, and you'd all simply say "I don't care, we're winning.".... Focus on the issue. Kelly's demeanour is no more an issue than any other coach's. His current level of success is the problem. People simply start making it personal when the guy starts losing.

Reporters are maggots for the most part. Especially the people the local media members. They are often fan boys of a particular team, whose articles are written based on how they personally feel about a coach, which is derived from the success that coach has... Put it this way. Nobody writes a bad thing about Nick Saban, despite the fact that he publicly embarrasses media members in front of their own peers for questioning him. Why? Because they are his bitch. They don't care if he thinks they're maggots, because he's winning. If Brian Kelly was winning the media would treat him the same way... The second you start losing, they turn the tables on you. The years worth being treated like sub creatures start to influence your writing. Journalists love nothing more than to stick it a coach when it's going poorly. The same coach they had raw knees from felating when he was winning.

Can Brian Kelly be a jerk. Yep. Is he more of a jerk than about 50 coaches I could name off the top of my head. Some successful, some ultra successful and some not. Nope... Why is it an issue. Because for some reason people feel a need to idolize a winner regardless of his character, until he starts losing, then it's ok to assassinate his character.

You're doing it in your political realm right now. Donald Trump comes out of nowhere to win the Republican candidacy. He's among the biggest d-bags on the planet. He's beyond full of himself and treats others like shit. But he was surging towards the Presidency because people respected his success and turned a blind eye to his bullshit because they worshipped his power and fame... Now it's not going to well. Hell, he's now running as an independent. More and more shit is coming out about his personality, but really is it anything we didn't know?.... Pfffff of course not. It's simply an issue because it's pretty clear he isn't going to win anymore. Now people are piling on.

The same idiots who supported the D-Bag that had the brilliant idea of building a massive wall that the tooth fairy was magically going to pay for, are now turning on him because he treats women inappropriately.... Nooooo.... That's shocking. And what's best is that the same voters who put him in position to get the candidacy, he's now turned his back from, basically saying he's now going to run as an independent.

I know that turned political for a second, but coaching is very political in its own right. You either want a winner, or you don't. You knew Brian Kelly's personality coming in. Or at least you should have if you did 5 seconds of research. He's always been this guy. But when he was a winner and the new shiny toy, you loved him. Now that isn't winning, he's an asshole. Newsflash, he was always an asshole. So is Saban, so is Meyer and for a lot of his career, so was Holtz... But they're more successful assholes, so America forgives and forgets... Until they lose a couple games.

You also have to factor in your point of reference....Charlie Weis was a complete a-hole in his own right...burned many bridges....arrogant beyond belief. While that may have been true about Kelly ....A. he may have been viewed as a lesser D bag.....and B. That was tolerable for a winner. Notre Dame football has been spiraling for decades....and every six or seven years or so....we have to change sheriffs....Right now...we need Matt Dillon. I know...he's a marshal....but we need change.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

I am reminded of the German infantry company hunkered down in foxholes along the Russian front in WWII... Their captain was addressing a freezing, hungry, demoralized group of soldiers....And he said.."Men, I have some good news, and I have some bad news".......They began to cheer and hollar for joy. He then said....".We're all getting a fresh change of socks and underwear".....they were ecstatic! He then said..."Fritz, you change with Karl...Wolfgang...you change with Wilhelm"....And so it has been with Notre Dame football for the past 20 years...

 

[cgvr]

It's all about winning. If he won like Saban and Meyer, nobody would care. Thanks for sharing the read, and I can empathize with it, but I have to disagree in many ways... Not because I'm a Kelly lover, but because I think the point is being missed.

Has anyone watched Nick Saban complete and utterly crucify a kid on the sidelines after taking a personal foul penalty? I've seen it numerous times. But when Saban does it, it's part of football. Did anybody watch him spend 2 minutes, on the sidelines, in front of everyone, cursing out Lane Kiffen a couple weeks back, over play calling in the final minutes of a blow out win?... He was irate in from of the cameras on National TV. When asked about the scenario, Saban simply said "It was an ass chewing" and essentially told the reporter to suck it up and deal with it... Ever watch a Saban press conference? It's about the same as watching a Belicheck press conference, except with less class and more vulgarity.

It's time to move on from Brian Kelly, but not because of his mannerisms on the sidelines. Unless you think Alabama should fire Nick Saban for being among most disliked, dicks in all of college football, who doesn't give two ****s about what you think of how nice he is.

Plenty of people have seen it from many greats. Porky has "overplayed" the hand the point where it is abusive, bullying and ineffective. Please do not compare him to great coaches. He is a pip squeak.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

I've noticed something during games for some time....When a time out is called...our players appear to walk slowly and hesitantly to the sidelines toward Kelly...He often has to hurry them along. Don't see that with Saban or Meyer. Those kids get over there in a hurry. ND's players are hesitant toward Kelly. Anyone else notice this?

 

[IrishInOntario]

Plenty of people have seen it from many greats. Porky has "overplayed" the hand the point where it is abusive, bullying and ineffective. Please do not compare him to great coaches. He is a pip squeak.

We'll agree to disagree... I'd love to see your thoughts on Kelly and his demeanour if he was acting the same way (similar to Saban) while winning like Saban. I just fundamentally believe that you cannot excuse one person for their actions and accept those same actions from somebody else, based on their levels of success. I separate character and success into two categories. All people are held to the same standard on both.

 

[IrishInOntario]

I've noticed something during games for some time....When a time out is called...our players appear to walk slowly and hesitantly to the sidelines toward Kelly...He often has to hurry them along. Don't see that with Saban or Meyer. Those kids get over there in a hurry. ND's players are hesitant toward Kelly. Anyone else notice this?

At the same time, not a single person goes near Saban on the sidelines because they are terrified of him. The only time a player talks to him is if he['s got them by the facemask unleashing on them for screwing up... It's beyond respect. But they play for him, because to win titles and go to the NFL.