Playing time

[scubastevefl]

After reading the comments on the thread about Phil J. Transferring. Remember playing time is based on performance not stars or recruiting rankings. Is Phil the next Russell Wilson or the next Hunter Johnson. Time will tell.

 

[NDAFArly]

In his limited minutes he had a rating of over 206, which is 2 points higher than the record. Obviously that was only 18 passing attempts & less than 15 rushing attempts. But he did well when he did play & deserved more minutes in blowouts.
The entire defense BK said for the reason Phil didn’t play more was he needed more game action. Which of course doesn’t even make sense, because he can’t get real game experience unless he plays. So it’s a circle. When Phil did play in games you can’t say he didn’t perform well. 12-16 222 yards. 2 TDs 0 INTs. 130 yards rushing on 12 attempts. QB rating over 200.

 

[Toby Smart]

When BK had the chance to give Phil any real minutes, he didn't, but, Phil will go to his next program highly trained at handing the ball off. BK, the developer of QBs. We don't know what practice was like since none of us, including the media, has been there since Fall camp.

 

[d1042]

When BK had the chance to give Phil any real minutes, he didn't, but, Phil will go to his next program highly trained at handing the ball off. BK, the developer of QBs. We don't know what practice was like since none of us, including the media, has been there since Fall camp.

PJ is not a Kelly type QB. He would have a BK return to his days of pumpkin head.

TR must see something in Book that has in himself and BK convinced there will be no QB competition. Anyone know what that is?

 

[Toby Smart]

I am assuming Brendon Clark will be the #2. Brendon spent all of last season on the scout team, learning the opponent's plays. He was very good at it but he is coming in, one play away, from taking over the offense with little experience. BK went crazy on signing day talking up Phil as the best QB he had ever seen. Those are his words. He went further on saying he would match Phil up against anyone. Look at Phil's recruitment list. High end. No one talked about his throwing motion then. IF he had this issue, it happened under BKs watch . If Phil was the best QB BK ever saw, why didn't BK and his staff develop him as such? Talk about the two recruits who had zero contact with BK and now this. What the hell is going on over there?

 

[Golson5]

I am assuming Brendon Clark will be the #2. Brendon spent all of last season on the scout team, learning the opponent's plays. He was very good at it but he is coming in, one play away, from taking over the offense with little experience. BK went crazy on signing day talking up Phil as the best QB he had ever seen. Those are his words. He went further on saying he would match Phil up against anyone. Look at Phil's recruitment list. High end. No one talked about his throwing motion then. IF he had this issue, it happened under BKs watch . If Phil was the best QB BK ever saw, why didn't BK and his staff develop him as such? Talk about the two recruits who had zero contact with BK and now this. What the hell is going on over there?

His throwing motion was definitely talked about. Then he struggled at the Army game. He may have lost his confidence at some point and it then got even worse

 

[Toby Smart]

If his throwing motion was talked about during his recruitment period, up until signing day, why would BK call him the best QB he has ever seen? I'm not a recruiting junkie, but I never read or heard anything about his throwing motion. Did any of the top recruiting analyst say anything? Apparently, if there was an issue, it didn't freak out Saban or any of these other great top programs. Puzzling.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

I love it when a bunch of no nothings on this board continually preach there knowledge of personnel, and who should play when and where. It's flat out laughable to read this crap. Coaches are paid boatloads of money to win, they are with the players everyday, and they play the player who support the best chance to win. Yet idiots on this board know more. Just laughable

 

[Golson5]

If his throwing motion was talked about during his recruitment period, up until signing day, why would BK call him the best QB he has ever seen? I'm not a recruiting junkie, but I never read or heard anything about his throwing motion. Did any of the top recruiting analyst say anything? Apparently, if there was an issue, it didn't freak out Saban or any of these other great top programs. Puzzling.

Plenty of great coaches miss on recruiting quarterbacks, even Saban. Not every player pans out. There's tons of QB misses throughout the years, much much better than Phil. More highly rated recruits have failed than Phil. It happens. It happens everywhere. And just because a school offers, doesnt make everyone committable. Some schools offer multiple qbs but slow play them waiting for the one they really want. You cant just go by oh so and so offered. Its not really puzzling at all. It happens all the time at every school

 

[NDIRISH53]

His throwing motion was definitely talked about. Then he struggled at the Army game. He may have lost his confidence at some point and it then got even worse

I know the typical “oh you can’t judge how a player performs in an all star game or the spring game” but people act like it’s not a data point.

PJ was HORRIBLE in that all star game. Falling around, losing his shoe, throwing horrible passes. This was concerning but the hope was he will be refined at ND. I do not think that refinement ever happened. He is still an athlete playing QB.

 

[Toby Smart]

Kizer also looked bad in the Spring game. Plenty have. Some looked as advertised. Spring games go way way back and out of all those games, there have been more than a few surprises that have gone both ways. None of us know if Phil was developed. None of us know how he performed at practice over the past four months, including the media. He did not look like a fumbling bumbling idiot when the few times he was given an opportunity. I've read all the opinions here and other sites. I've listened to "insiders" on various outlets. I stand by my opinion that I support Ian and I don't know what went on behind the scenes with Phil. I hope Brendon Clark gets himself prepped for hand off duties when the 2020 season starts. He's one play away.

 

[Kelso86]

In his limited minutes he had a rating of over 206, which is 2 points higher than the record. Obviously that was only 18 passing attempts & less than 15 rushing attempts. But he did well when he did play & deserved more minutes in blowouts.
The entire defense BK said for the reason Phil didn’t play more was he needed more game action. Which of course doesn’t even make sense, because he can’t get real game experience unless he plays. So it’s a circle. When Phil did play in games you can’t say he didn’t perform well. 12-16 222 yards. 2 TDs 0 INTs. 130 yards rushing on 12 attempts. QB rating over 200.

"The entire defense BK said for the reason Phil didn’t play more was he needed more game action. Which of course doesn’t even make sense, because he can’t get real game experience unless he plays"

You hit the nail on the head! There were many games where Phil could have gotten in a lot of "game time" reps and run the offense. Kelly always talks about depth, but at the QB position, he seems hesitant to allow for it. Will be curious to see if Clark garners time this fall

 

[Toby Smart]

"The entire defense BK said for the reason Phil didn’t play more was he needed more game action. Which of course doesn’t even make sense, because he can’t get real game experience unless he plays"

You hit the nail on the head! There were many games where Phil could have gotten in a lot of "game time" reps and run the offense. Kelly always talks about depth, but at the QB position, he seems hesitant to allow for it. Will be curious to see if Clark garners time this fall

Strange. Isn't it. "No man is hated more than the man who tells the truth". BK hovered over Ian as if it was his son and he was protecting the position for him. We all support Ian 100%. He's just trying to develop and play his best. The discussion is not about him as a person or player. It's about Phil, BK, Long, and to a lesser extent, Rees. Oh well. What is done, is done. Let's give our total support to Ian and Brendon and our newbies coming in.

 

[Get Nasty]

Kizer also looked bad in the Spring game. Plenty have. Some looked as advertised. Spring games go way way back and out of all those games, there have been more than a few surprises that have gone both ways. None of us know if Phil was developed. None of us know how he performed at practice over the past four months, including the media. He did not look like a fumbling bumbling idiot when the few times he was given an opportunity. I've read all the opinions here and other sites. I've listened to "insiders" on various outlets. I stand by my opinion that I support Ian and I don't know what went on behind the scenes with Phil. I hope Brendon Clark gets himself prepped for hand off duties when the 2020 season starts. He's one play away.

Kizer was 3rd string for his first spring game and not even in the picture going into 2015 season. Golson and Zaire were in a 2 QB battle spring 2015, then zaire got it and golson transferred. With that said, Phil looked way worse than kizer did, and that's saying something. Phil got a lot of reps in the spring last year.

 

[echowaker]

playing time on Saturday is determined by the effort and performance displayed on the practice field and in the meeting room Sunday through Friday. end of story.

 

[Get Nasty]

playing time on Saturday is determined by the effort and performance displayed on the practice field and in the meeting room Sunday through Friday. end of story.

Yes and No..... Sunday through Friday gets you the opportunity, then how you play on Saturday's ultimately decide your PT. I guarantee if ND loses to Vtech and book doesn't play awesome the last few minutes we're having completely different conversations right now. Book would have played 2 absolutely awful games in a row, and all hopes of a good season would have been over. I don't think Book would have recovered and Phil would have gotten more PT.

Point is, there's standards during the week, but even if you meet them doesn't mean you get PT.

 

[Yooper Irishfan]

I love it when a bunch of no nothings on this board continually preach there knowledge of personnel, and who should play when and where. It's flat out laughable to read this crap. Coaches are paid boatloads of money to win, they are with the players everyday, and they play the player who support the best chance to win. Yet idiots on this board know more. Just laughable

Were some of us know nothings laughable for wanting to see what Book had when Wimbush was struggling heavily early last year? The fact is, throughout BK’s tenure, the backup qb HAS often times been the better performing qb, because BK has never developed a starter to reach that next level of performance. That doesn’t automatically mean that PJ would have performed better than Book, but BK’s track record gives some credence to that theory.

 

[echowaker]

Yes and No..... Sunday through Friday gets you the opportunity, then how you play on Saturday's ultimately decide your PT. I guarantee if ND loses to Vtech and book doesn't play awesome the last few minutes we're having completely different conversations right now. Book would have played 2 absolutely awful games in a row, and all hopes of a good season would have been over. I don't think Book would have recovered and Phil would have gotten more PT.

Point is, there's standards during the week, but even if you meet them doesn't mean you get PT.

of course you have to perform. my point was that playing time is earned and shouldn't be handed out without merit.

 

[Telx1]

As a fan who felt Book’s ceiling wasn’t high enough to take us to the playoffs, I wanted to see Phil on the field to gauge his upside. That said, I expect Kelly to put the QB on the field that gives us the best chance to win, and Kelly and Long and Rees believed that to be Book. Stories of Phil treated unfairly largely emanate from our prior moderator who left Rivals, who shared the view that Book’s limitations warranted Phil being given meaningful playing time. Kelly and Long weren’t going to change the entire offense to take advantage of Phil’s strengths at the expense of the short to intermediate passing game, and I think Phil came to accept this, thus his decision to transfer. Not at all sure about these stories of being thrown under the bus, beyond the reality of the situation playing out.
Personally, I feel we needed the combination of their strengths to have a QB capable of beating Georgia and Michigan this past season; but absent this, Kelly went with the one who could better execute their desired offense with limited turnovers, with his limitations on full display against the better opponents. But hope runs eternal, and here’s hoping that Book has one more leap in his level of performance, and steps up and wins next year’s big stage games.

 

[echowaker]

As a fan who felt Book’s ceiling wasn’t high enough to take us to the playoffs, I wanted to see Phil on the field to gauge his upside. That said, I expect Kelly to put the QB on the field that gives us the best chance to win, and Kelly and Long and Rees believed that to be Book. Stories of Phil treated unfairly largely emanate from our prior moderator who left Rivals, who shared the view that Book’s limitations warranted Phil being given meaningful playing time. Kelly and Long weren’t going to change the entire offense to take advantage of Phil’s strengths at the expense of the short to intermediate passing game, and I think Phil came to accept this, thus his decision to transfer. Not at all sure about these stories of being thrown under the bus, beyond the reality of the situation playing out.
Personally, I feel we needed the combination of their strengths to have a QB capable of beating Georgia and Michigan this past season; but absent this, Kelly went with the one who could better execute their desired offense with limited turnovers, with his limitations on full display against the better opponents. But hope runs eternal, and here’s hoping that Book has one more leap in his level of performance, and steps up and wins next year’s big stage games.

well said. agree that the Driskell effect is in full force in the other discussion. take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Get Nasty]

As a fan who felt Book’s ceiling wasn’t high enough to take us to the playoffs, I wanted to see Phil on the field to gauge his upside. That said, I expect Kelly to put the QB on the field that gives us the best chance to win, and Kelly and Long and Rees believed that to be Book. Stories of Phil treated unfairly largely emanate from our prior moderator who left Rivals, who shared the view that Book’s limitations warranted Phil being given meaningful playing time. Kelly and Long weren’t going to change the entire offense to take advantage of Phil’s strengths at the expense of the short to intermediate passing game, and I think Phil came to accept this, thus his decision to transfer. Not at all sure about these stories of being thrown under the bus, beyond the reality of the situation playing out.
Personally, I feel we needed the combination of their strengths to have a QB capable of beating Georgia and Michigan this past season; but absent this, Kelly went with the one who could better execute their desired offense with limited turnovers, with his limitations on full display against the better opponents. But hope runs eternal, and here’s hoping that Book has one more leap in his level of performance, and steps up and wins next year’s big stage games.

Book was good enough to beat Georgia this past year, as was the entire ND team. I honestly think we win if we'd play'd in a bowl game, I didn't feel that was in athens. Book was just NOT ready at all to beat a good defense.

 

[Telx1]

Book was good enough to beat Georgia this past year, as was the entire ND team. I honestly think we win if we'd play'd in a bowl game, I didn't feel that was in athens. Book was just NOT ready at all to beat a good defense.

I tend to agree. Thought we played the third Qtr not to lose, rather than to win. His play on the last drive that ran out of time was outstanding, but I also appreciate that the defense was playing off our receivers to keep everything in front of them. I tend to avoid the IF scenarios because there are so many variables.

 

[d1042]

I tend to agree. Thought we played the third Qtr not to lose, rather than to win. His play on the last drive that ran out of time was outstanding, but I also appreciate that the defense was playing off our receivers to keep everything in front of them. I tend to avoid the IF scenarios because there are so many variables.

If ND does something different, probably UGA does something different: UGA was a better team.
ugh!

 

[Ara64]

After reading the comments on the thread about Phil J. Transferring. Remember playing time is based on performance not stars or recruiting rankings. Is Phil the next Russell Wilson or the next Hunter Johnson. Time will tell.

I don't think you can compare Russell Wilson to this situation. Russell had a very good career at NC State before transferring from NC State to Wisconsin. He already demonstrated that he was a very good quarterback at NC State. Phil left ND for his own reasons without making much a mark of any kind. We'll just have to wait and see where he goes and how he develops over the coming years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Wilson#Transfer

US college sports recruiting information for high school athletes
Name Hometown High school / college Height Weight 40‡ Commit date
Russell Wilson
QB Richmond, Virginia Collegiate School 5 ft 11 in (1.80 m) 205 lb (93 kg) 4.53 Jul 23, 2006
Recruiting star ratings: Scout: Rivals: 247Sports: N/A
Overall recruiting rankings: Scout: 67 (QB) Rivals: NR (QB), NR (Virginia)

• ‡ Refers to 40 yard dash
• Note: In many cases, Scout, Rivals, 247Sports, and ESPN may conflict in their listings of height, weight and 40 time.
• In these cases, the average was taken. ESPN grades are on a 100-point scale.

Sources:

• "2007 Team Ranking". Rivals.com. Retrieved October 7, 2011.

Wilson committed to North Carolina State University on July 23, 2006.[41] He also received a football scholarship offer from Duke University.[42]

College football career
NC State
See also: 2007 NC State Wolfpack football team, 2008 NC State Wolfpack football team, 2009 NC State Wolfpack football team, and 2010 NC State Wolfpack football team
Wilson redshirted during the 2007 season at NC State. In 2008, Wilson initially split time at quarterback with senior Daniel Evans and junior Harrison Beck. However, Evans and Beck saw no regular season action after Week 2 and Week 5, respectively. Thereafter, Wilson led the team to a 4–3 record in the regular season which NC State finished out on a four-game winning streak. During a win over East Carolina, Wilson threw for 201 yards and three touchdowns. He threw for two touchdowns in each of the last six games in the regular season.[43]

In the 2008 PapaJohns.com Bowl against Rutgers, Wilson threw for 186 yards and a touchdown and rushed for 46 yards before halftime. Late in the first half, he scrambled to the Rutgers' four-yard line, where he was tackled and suffered a knee sprain. With Wilson sitting out the remainder of the game, his replacements threw a combined total of three interceptions with NC State eventually losing, 23–29.[44] Over the course of the season, he completed 150 of 275 attempts for 1,955 yards and 17 touchdowns with just one interception. He also recorded 116 carries for 394 yards and four touchdowns.[43] The Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) named him the first-team All-ACC quarterback. It was the first time in the conference's history that a freshman quarterback was named to the first team.[45]

Prior to the 2009 season, Wilson was named as the quarterback on the pre-season all-ACC football team on July 12. On September 19, Wilson broke Andre Woodson's all-time NCAA record of 325 consecutive pass attempts without an interception against Gardner–Webb. The 379-pass streak ended in a game against Wake Forest on October 3.[46] Wilson held the record until November 10, 2012, when it was broken by Louisiana Tech quarterback Colby Cameron.[47] Wilson was named honorable mention All-ACC in 2009.[48]

Wilson led the 2010 Wolfpack to a 9–4 season that included a 23–7 win over West Virginia in the 2010 Champs Sports Bowl. He led the ACC in passing yards per game (274.1) and total offensive yards per game (307.5). He was named second-team All-ACC and runner-up for ACC Football Player of the Year.[citation needed][48] In May 2010, Wilson graduated from NC State in three years with a BA in communication, and took graduate-level business courses in the fall semester during the 2010 football season.[49][50][51][52][53]

Transfer
In January 2011, Wilson announced that he would report to spring training with the Colorado Rockies organization.[54] NC State head coach Tom O'Brien expressed reservations with Wilson's decision, saying "Russell and I have had very open conversations about his responsibilities respective to baseball and football. While I am certainly respectful of Russell's dedication to baseball these last several years, within those discussions I also communicated to him the importance of his time commitment to NC State football."

O'Brien and his staff reached out to NFL coaches and general managers on Wilson's behalf, but he failed to receive an invitation to the 2011 NFL Scouting Combine.[55]

On April 29, 2011, O'Brien announced that Wilson had been granted a release from his football scholarship with one year of eligibility remaining.