Playing the Young Guys

[Golson5]

Sorry champ that's not what happened. Marist Loufau was doing what he was supposed to most of last year. He just got eaten up by blockers. He didn't choose wrong or not know where to go...he ran into 300 lbs linemen on almost every play that shed our dl who couldn't get to the QB.

Who didn't know what they were doing? The only positions to have serious issues with being out of position were safeties... Henderson and Brown are what they are.

The scheme with bvg and the sched that golden run are completely different and eons apart from complexity.

I'm not a fan of golden or this scheme but the d he runs is make a decision and commit. He doesn't care if it's wrong, he wants you to make a read and use athleticism.

This isn't a case of guys not knowing what to do, it was a case of uninspired overhyped linemen not making plays, safeties making a bad read or missing tackles, and a linebacker unable to shed a block.


Those issues have nothing to do with scheme complexity.

Sorry Champ but Golden himself said he put everything in last spring and it was too much. He himself dialed it back this year and this is year 2

Imagine how much they were swimming last year if more was pit in year 1 than year 2

Sorry Champ but it absolutely was part of the problem

Freemans D was player driven. Less thinking just go get the ball. Goldens D was more to it. They just put too much in when he said this spring they didn't need all of it

 

[sjb75]

Sorry Champ but Golden himself said he put everything in last spring and it was too much. He himself dialed it back this year and this is year 2

Imagine how much they were swimming last year if more was pit in year 1 than year 2

Sorry Champ but it absolutely was part of the problem

Freemans D was player driven. Less thinking just go get the ball. Goldens D was more to it. They just put too much in when he said this spring they didn't need all of it

And both aren't as good as Clark Lea.

 

[Golson5]

And both aren't as good as Clark Lea.

Lea is a very good defensive coach but not near the recruiter of Freeman

So Id take Freeman over the other 2 easy because he's a very good defensive coach and recruiter while Lea is elite at one and not great at the other

 

[mirer03]

Sorry Champ but Golden himself said he put everything in last spring and it was too much. He himself dialed it back this year and this is year 2

Imagine how much they were swimming last year if more was pit in year 1 than year 2

Sorry Champ but it absolutely was part of the problem

Freemans D was player driven. Less thinking just go get the ball. Goldens D was more to it. They just put too much in when he said this spring they didn't need all of it

Taking things out as a coach, doesn't mean it was too complicated.

Two very different things.

He tried to overcoach last year. Have a play for every scenario, scheme for every team, vs having a core concept and letting guys play. That inhibited guys from excelling at the basics.

That's not the same as bvg where guys literally had no clue where to line up or what to do when.

 

[Golson5]

Taking things out as a coach, doesn't mean it was too complicated.

Two very different things.

He tried to overcoach last year. Have a play for every scenario, scheme for every team, vs having a core concept and letting guys play. That inhibited guys from excelling at the basics.

That's not the same as bvg where guys literally had no clue where to line up or what to do when.

Yep thats what he did. Too much stuff. Wasn't necessary. Too much thinking. Too much learning. Hopefully he fixes that this season. Sounds like he is trying to

 

[Get Nasty]

Yep thats what he did. Too much stuff. Wasn't necessary. Too much thinking. Too much learning. Hopefully he fixes that this season. Sounds like he is trying to

I think it's too easy of an excuse.

Why didn't he know it was too much, how didn't he see it wasn't working, why didn't he make better in season adjustments?

 

[Golson5]

I think it's too easy of an excuse.

Why didn't he know it was too much, how didn't he see it wasn't working, why didn't he make better in season adjustments?

Coming from the NFL back to college is not an easy adjustment.

Less time for the kids to learn the D. Less practice time. Kids go to school

By the time you see it during the season its too late.

 

[Get Nasty]

Coming from the NFL back to college is not an easy adjustment.

Less time for the kids to learn the D. Less practice time. Kids go to school

By the time you see it during the season its too late.

Come on, this was freemans D and scheme with a few Tweaks and golden calling plays…

Would love to see a great coach saying we installed too much for an entire season .. can’t remember one doing that

The scheme was stupid at times, issue wasn’t we installed too much. Cop out to not take blame

 

[sjb75]

Come on, this was freemans D and scheme with a few Tweaks and golden calling plays…

Would love to see a great coach saying we installed too much for an entire season .. can’t remember one doing that

The scheme was stupid at times, issue wasn’t we installed too much. Cop out to not take blame

"It's not the critic who counts..."----Theodore Roosevelt

 

[mirer03]

Coming from the NFL back to college is not an easy adjustment.

Less time for the kids to learn the D. Less practice time. Kids go to school

By the time you see it during the season its too late.

It's actually more the difference in competition. In the NFL you have to have multiple looks available because the opposing offensive players have seen everything. They know how to take advantage of certain looks so there is more disguising or presnap movement. In college, not so much. You can have bread and butter week over week that most teams cannot take advantage of....and then when they do, that is when you have some wrinkles... Not when you play marshall.

 

[Golson5]

Come on, this was freemans D and scheme with a few Tweaks and golden calling plays…

Would love to see a great coach saying we installed too much for an entire season .. can’t remember one doing that

The scheme was stupid at times, issue wasn’t we installed too much. Cop out to not take blame

It was Goldens D. I wish it was Freemans
I wish he stayed calling plays and hired a great recruiter at LB. He seemed to purposely stay away from the D

 

[Golson5]

It's actually more the difference in competition. In the NFL you have to have multiple looks available because the opposing offensive players have seen everything. They know how to take advantage of certain looks so there is more disguising or presnap movement. In college, not so much. You can have bread and butter week over week that most teams cannot take advantage of....and then when they do, that is when you have some wrinkles... Not when you play marshall.

It's a bigger difference in practice and prep time. No limits in NFL and a lot on college

 

[mirer03]

It was Goldens D. I wish it was Freemans
I wish he stayed calling plays and hired a great recruiter at LB. He seemed to purposely stay away from the D

I disagree here. If it was freeman's defense we would be moving full on towards a 3-3-5. Moreso than we already are. That's his preference, Kelly actually held that in check while here....

 

[d1042]

That’s correct !

I‘m not aware of a coach that doesn’t play his best, most talented players, other than for disciplinary reasons.

hmmm! think about this for a few seconds, 19 ………..……………………… 24

 

[Golson5]

I disagree here. If it was freeman's defense we would be moving full on towards a 3-3-5. Moreso than we already are. That's his preference, Kelly actually held that in check while here....

So what are you disagreeing with

 

[mirer03]

So what are you disagreeing with

You said you wish we were runnings freeman's defense. I disagree with that, because I don't want to run a primarily 3-3-5 look.

 

[Golson5]

You said you wish we were runnings freeman's defense. I disagree with that, because I don't want to run a primarily 3-3-5 look.

His defense is multiple.

 

[mirer03]

His defense is multiple.

His defense most definitely is not multiple. His defense under Kelly was multiple. His defense at Cincy was straight 3-3-5. He played the 4-3 game with Kelly calling the shots, and because of the players on the roster. If freeman is calling his defense and controlling recruiting wed run an almost exclusively 3-3-5.

 

[Get Nasty]

His defense most definitely is not multiple. His defense under Kelly was multiple. His defense at Cincy was straight 3-3-5. He played the 4-3 game with Kelly calling the shots, and because of the players on the roster. If freeman is calling his defense and controlling recruiting wed run an almost exclusively 3-3-5.

Did a ton of that vs Florida state to open season in 21, you could see Kelly actually get on him late in the game … almost like “I told you this crap wouldn’t work”… did less of it moving forward but still a bit and then less last year

 

[mirer03]

Did a ton of that vs Florida state to open season in 21, you could see Kelly actually get on him late in the game … almost like “I told you this crap wouldn’t work”… did less of it moving forward but still a bit and then less last year

Exactly. Kelly and Elston pushed the 4-3 due to the players on the team.. they are recruiting for a small 3-3-5 lineup now.

 

[Get Nasty]

Exactly. Kelly and Elston pushed the 4-3 due to the players on the team.. they are recruiting for a small 3-3-5 lineup now.

I don’t get the small 3 down as your base…. Mills cross Rubio could work but we did it with 2 of 3 being DEs

 

[Golson5]

His defense most definitely is not multiple. His defense under Kelly was multiple. His defense at Cincy was straight 3-3-5. He played the 4-3 game with Kelly calling the shots, and because of the players on the roster. If freeman is calling his defense and controlling recruiting wed run an almost exclusively 3-3-5.

It was multiple at Cincy

 

[mirer03]

It was multiple at Cincy

Now you are just making things up.

To be clear being multiple is being able to go back and forth between 3 and 4 man fronts without substituting depending on what the offense shows...

Here's Bryan driskills take from a public article on freeman....note that our recruiting absolutely matches this pattern of bringing a lb up to make it a 4 down look...

"At Cincinnati, Freeman began with a base four-down line, but he adjusted to more of a three-down base in his last three seasons. His "base look" is a 3-3-5, which is three down linemen, three linebackers and five defensive backs. The fifth defensive back at Cincinnati was more of a pure safety than a rover/linebacker like we saw at Notre Dame."

Of course Cincy used four man fronts on occasion when substitutions called for it... But it's very clear freeman is a 3-3-5 guy. Hes moved two linebackers that are 250ish to vyper. He has a 260 strong side transfer. He wants a small and active line where lbs attack and can move up on either side to be unpredictable. Golden is more of a 4-3 guy. Imho wed be 3-3-5 base if a DC other than golden was here.

 

[Golson5]

Now you are just making things up.

To be clear being multiple is being able to go back and forth between 3 and 4 man fronts without substituting depending on what the offense shows...

Here's Bryan driskills take from a public article on freeman....note that our recruiting absolutely matches this pattern of bringing a lb up to make it a 4 down look...

"At Cincinnati, Freeman began with a base four-down line, but he adjusted to more of a three-down base in his last three seasons. His "base look" is a 3-3-5, which is three down linemen, three linebackers and five defensive backs. The fifth defensive back at Cincinnati was more of a pure safety than a rover/linebacker like we saw at Notre Dame."

Of course Cincy used four man fronts on occasion when substitutions called for it... But it's very clear freeman is a 3-3-5 guy. Hes moved two linebackers that are 250ish to vyper. He has a 260 strong side transfer. He wants a small and active line where lbs attack and can move up on either side to be unpredictable. Golden is more of a 4-3 guy. Imho wed be 3-3-5 base if a DC other than golden was here.

Yeah 3-3-5 and the outside backers could put their hand in the dirt. They did it a lot. They had guys moving around a lot and multiple fonts

They were multiple

I dont care if we are 335 or 43 as long as they get the job done.

 

[Patrirish]

First 7 games, Brady played the first quarter, Henson pkayed the second quarter, then Carr would decide who played the 2nd half

It was a terrible coaching mistake

You obviously don't know that situation so stop trying to act like you do. You look stupid

How was it a mistake ?
UM won the first game under that arrangement.
Then UM won the second game under that arrangement
Then UM won the third game under that arrangement
Then UM won the fourth game under that arrangement
Then UM won the fifth game under that arrangement.

They were undefeated through five games and Henson had led them to a game winning TD.

Through five games it would appear to have been a brilliant strategy.

Only a 20-20 hindsight genius like you would declare that it was a terrible coaching mistake.

But then again I’m sure that you were much closer to the situation and circumstances than Carr !

 

[sjb75]

How was it a mistake ?
UM won the first game under that arrangement.
Then UM won the second game under that arrangement
Then UM won the third game under that arrangement
Then UM won the fourth game under that arrangement
Then UM won the fifth game under that arrangement.

They were undefeated through five games and Henson had led them to a game winning TD.

Through five games it would appear to have been a brilliant strategy.

Only a 20-20 hindsight genius like you would declare that it was a terrible coaching mistake.

But then again I’m sure that you were much closer to the situation and circumstances than Carr !

Move on.

You were no closer to the situation at Miami in 1990 regarding hazing.

 

[Patrirish]

Patty is a curmudgeon. He is not happy unless he is arguing with somebody

UM is undefeated through their first 5 games under that arrangement, so tell me, what genius would tell coach Carr that his game plan was a huge mistake as he’s entering game six ?

Only a know nothing 20-20 hindsight arm chair coach !

 

[Patrirish]

That isn't the argument that is being made though.

Nobody is saying that coaches are perfect 100% of the time. Coaches aren't paid to get it right 100% of the time, they're paid to get it right more often than their competition.

The overwhelming argument is that they (the coaches) are the far more credible source when it comes to determining who should and shouldn't be on the field.

How much arrogance and lack of self awareness does one need to have to think for instance they know Heistand's best 5 at o-line than Heistand himself? Or that they know Mike Mickens best 5 DBs better than Mickens himself?

These guys spend 80 hours a week obsessing over how to maximize the talent/skills of the players they are assigned to teach and develop over hundreds of hours of practice and training and live reps. They also deliberate over it with their team of other highly skilled coaches everyday.

The arrogance you have to have to think you know something about who should be where on the depth chart, or how reps should be divvied up, etc. from your living room or the press box in contrast to the professionals--professionals with a track record that has lead them to the greatest heights of their profession who are actually in the trenches scouting, recruiting, developing, and evaluating those players everyday--is beyond imagination

👍

 

[Patrirish]

Your go to scheme, never looks good.

Since when is asking someone to substantiate their assertion/position not good ?

It‘s called being held accountable !

And, it’s a sound “scheme” one that challenges you !

 

[Golson5]

UM is undefeated through their first 5 games under that arrangement, so tell me, what genius would tell coach Carr that his game plan was a huge mistake as he’s entering game six ?

Only a know nothing 20-20 hindsight arm chair coach !

Go back to sleep. That was pathetic

 

[Patrirish]

Go back to sleep. That was pathetic

No, it was right on the money !

 

[Golson5]

No, it was right on the money !

You would thin that

 

[Patrirish]

You would thin that

I also think that !

 

[BGI User 1596]

Go back to sleep. That was pathetic

Ouch!