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Phil Steele

scotch

you checking out the recruiting momentum?
(I don't want to post it here, football discussion interupts the thought process of the keyboard tough guys who are busy acting like "mean girls".)
 
you are certainly entitled to your opinion. the luster is certainly off the non playoff bowls.

There have been major bowl games played for years that haven't been part of the NC picture.

I'm curious.

Why do you think a major bowl that isn't part of the playoff rotation has lost "luster" or prestige?
 
scotch

you checking out the recruiting momentum?
(I don't want to post it here, football discussion interupts the thought process of the keyboard tough guys who are busy acting like "mean girls".)
Yes.... I follow it pretty close.

"Mean girls" ? You're too kind.
 
B Kelly has elevated the program .... no doubt .... few want him out .... he's good .... the holes in his coaching acumen cost him elite status

- He refuses to add a short yardage package ... 3rd and 1 often becomes "oh crap" .... adds to struggles inside the red zone (especially inside the 10) .... instead of running it down inferior opponents throats we run jet sweeps to wr's .... a joke

-He still hasn't developed a proven QB ... the whole Rees nightmare .... finally it looks like ND possibly might be over this one with Zaire and Kizer (in year 6-7) ..... something tells me he will screw this up juggling 2 QB's .... Zaire should start .... he won the job when both were healthy .... suddenly he's worse .... ??? .... we'll see .... Kizer looked great at times but not so much the better the other team was .... He looked awful for 3 qtrs. against Clemson and not very good against Ohio St (suddenly had happy feet)

-Really .... he has never been hands on with the defense ... it shouldn't be necessary all the time but when something is wrong ... you're the damn head coach help fix it

- Special teams (a strength for Holtz - he dedicated time to it) ... last year we were better but I don't know why it took 6-7 years to do more than find someone who could at best catch a punt and not fumble it

- refuses to defer when winning coin toss .... again stupid .... making worse possible option in 2nd half possible vs impossible ... being behind and kicking off

Kelly has an ego problem where he ignores the obvious because in his mind he knows more than everyone else .... then he gets exposed on the big stage

Kelly is close to putting it all together ... if he would just get out of the way and let the last pieces to fall into place .... and for god's sake install a short yardage package and run it down their damn throat sometime .... you have one of the toughest O-lines in the country .... use them accordingly
well, thats two sports you haven't a clue about.
 
There have been major bowl games played for years that haven't been part of the NC picture.

I'm curious.

Why do you think a major bowl that isn't part of the playoff rotation has lost "luster" or prestige?
because in this era they are just another game. when championships were mythical wining so called "major" bowl games added to the discussion of who was best. with the current structure if you don't make the 4 team playoff its just the best of the rest. its good to play in them and its always better to win than lose . its just not the same anymore.
 
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In 1924 there were three bowl games. The Dixie Classic had West Virginia Wesleyan over SMU. The Los Angeles Christmas Festival had USC over Mizzou, but, the big game was undefeated ND and Stanford in the Rose Bowl. There have always been marquee bowl match ups with the best of the rest playing in less important bowl games. I guess I would take it to the actual players participating in these bowl games and see what kind of vibe they have about it. If they are all in, then I am. If they really don't enjoy the bowl experience ( extra practice, game day, luncheons, tours of the city they are playing in) then I will have a negative experience watching these games. I know the university makes the call on attending bowl games , but, I would really like to get the attitude of the players who actually have to put in the work for this extra meaningless bowl game.
 
In 1924 there were three bowl games. The Dixie Classic had West Virginia Wesleyan over SMU. The Los Angeles Christmas Festival had USC over Mizzou, but, the big game was undefeated ND and Stanford in the Rose Bowl. There have always been marquee bowl match ups with the best of the rest playing in less important bowl games. I guess I would take it to the actual players participating in these bowl games and see what kind of vibe they have about it. If they are all in, then I am. If they really don't enjoy the bowl experience ( extra practice, game day, luncheons, tours of the city they are playing in) then I will have a negative experience watching these games. I know the university makes the call on attending bowl games , but, I would really like to get the attitude of the players who actually have to put in the work for this extra meaningless bowl game.
the extra practice time a bowl game brings is extremely important in the big picture especially for a young team.
 
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Winning any bowl game is important because it provides momentum heading into NSD and spring ball. The schools play in them because they are important, even if the some fans can't see the big picture (15 extra practices).
You could make an argument that beating LSU in the Music City Bowl was a more "important" win for the ND program than several of the so called major bowl wins we've had in our history.
 
What impact do you think Jaylon's bowl game injury will have on future NFL top round picks on non play-off bowl games and their willingness to play at full throttle?
 
What impact do you think Jaylon's bowl game injury will have on future NFL top round picks on non play-off bowl games and their willingness to play at full throttle?
great question. i can see some kids begging out of games that essentially mean nothing. no right or wrong there in my opinion.
 
If this becomes a trend, then fans and sponsors will be paying good money to see a game minus the star players headed for the NFL. Then, the coaches depend on bowl games for recruiting and even a financial bonus but if the star players are unwilling to participate then that might be a problem.
 
well, thats two sports you haven't a clue about.

You should stick to discussing your "rocket science" of football

Let me save you 3 days of posts:

1) Winning bowl games helps recruiting .... Duh!

2) Going to lower tier bowls is beneficial due to extra practices .... Duh!

3) Lower tier bowls have same significance as always .... news to you yes .... Duh!

"Players begging out of bowl games" .... ????? .... that would be a first in say .... well ..... forever

LOL!
 
If this becomes a trend, then fans and sponsors will be paying good money to see a game minus the star players headed for the NFL. Then, the coaches depend on bowl games for recruiting and even a financial bonus but if the star players are unwilling to participate then that might be a problem.
absolutely.
 
You should stick to discussing your "rocket science" of football

Let me save you 3 days of posts:

1) Winning bowl games helps recruiting .... Duh!

2) Going to lower tier bowls is beneficial due to extra practices .... Duh!

3) Lower tier bowls have same significance as always .... news to you yes .... Duh!

"Players begging out of bowl games" .... ????? .... that would be a first in say .... well ..... forever

LOL!
if you don't think jaylon smiths injury last year won't cause some draft eligible players to think twice you're even less knowledgable than i thought.
 
You should stick to discussing your "rocket science" of football

Let me save you 3 days of posts:

1) Winning bowl games helps recruiting .... Duh!

2) Going to lower tier bowls is beneficial due to extra practices .... Duh!

3) Lower tier bowls have same significance as always .... news to you yes .... Duh!

"Players begging out of bowl games" .... ????? .... that would be a first in say .... well ..... forever

LOL!
it's a discussion on football. something foreign to you.
 
The lower tier bowls didn't play for a National title before and they don't now ..... no difference

That is not an opinion .... that's a fact
It's different for the reason that several teams could have an argument for the national championship that may have played in 2-3 different 'big time' bowl games (Fiesta, Rose, Sugar, etc). You had a split national championship in 2003 and several years where you had undefeated Boise St's and Utah's of the world claiming there stake; the playoff system has mostly ended that conversation rendering only 2 of the bowls meaningful (the playoff ones in rotation for that year).
 
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It's different for the reason that several teams could have an argument for the national championship that may have played in 2-3 different 'big time' bowl games (Fiesta, Rose, Sugar, etc). You had a split national championship in 2003 and several years where you had undefeated Boise St's and Utah's of the world claiming there stake; the playoff system has mostly ended that conversation rendering only 2 of the bowls meaningful (the playoff ones in rotation for that year).
don't use logic with him. waste of time.
 
if you don't think jaylon smiths injury last year won't cause some draft eligible players to think twice you're even less knowledgable than i thought.

LOL! ..... better to keep mouth closed and let people think your stupid than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt ..... please go ahead and carry on
 
Buguit...this is some great advice. You may want to consider it before future posts.

Feel free to dispute anything I say .... given your choice of sides ..... and that's all it is .... I'm guessing you got nothing
 
Feel free to dispute anything I say .... given your choice of sides ..... and that's all it is .... I'm guessing you got nothing
for starters your "short yardage" argument is just dumb. if you don't know why you are not worthy of having me educate you on it. you have made head banging a 12 month of the year endeavor. read more, post less. much less.
 
LOL! ..... better to keep mouth closed and let people think your stupid than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt ..... please go ahead and carry on
why is that funny ? keep your head in the sand.
 
because in this era they are just another game. when championships were mythical wining so called "major" bowl games added to the discussion of who was best. with the current structure if you don't make the 4 team playoff its just the best of the rest. its good to play in them and its always better to win than lose . its just not the same anymore.
I don't think the prestige of, for instance, the Orange is lost when it is out of the playoff rotation. In your view, it seems like all the top bowls will cycle in an out of that club. imo All the bowls that are part of the playoff system carry more weight than the others. It will take some getting used to the Peach's status......
 
I guess the measure is that you want to be in a bowl vs a Top 10 Opponent. The higher the ranking of the opponent the bigger the prestige. The prestige comes from winning it.
 
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I don't think the prestige of, for instance, the Orange is lost when it is out of the playoff rotation. In your view, it seems like all the top bowls will cycle in an out of that club. imo All the bowls that are part of the playoff system carry more weight than the others. It will take some getting used to the Peach's status......
my point is the playoff is now the ultimate goal. everything else is a consolation prize. some are just prettier than others.
 
for starters your "short yardage" argument is just dumb. if you don't know why you are not worthy of having me educate you on it. you have made head banging a 12 month of the year endeavor. read more, post less. much less.

This from a guy who thinks players will start asking their coaches to opt out of bowl games ...

Sure tell us how a jet sweep is preferable to going off tackle vs Navy inside the 10 ..... or how 2nd and 1 or 3rd and goal from the one is better off running out of the shotgun .... Lou ran the power T .... unstoppable .... your posts indicate any experience you "claim" to have was lost on you .... plain dumb .... I'm confident you can come up with some equally dumb rationales
 
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beginners ? i have more football knowledge in my discarded toe nail clippings than you have ever had in your entire miserable existence.

Your posts indicate the exact opposite .... seriously ... you wasting your time discussing the value of bowl games/wins and extra practice???? .... you certainly showed us ... LOL! o_O
 
This from a guy who thinks players will start asking their coaches to opt out of bowl games ...

Sure tell us how a jet sweep is preferable to going off tackle vs Navy inside the 10 ..... or how 2nd and 1 or 3rd and goal from the one is better off running out of the shotgun .... Lou ran the power T .... unstoppable .... your posts indicate any experience you "claim" to have was lost on you .... plain dumb .... I'm confident you can come up with some equally dumb rationales
again, you don't get it. yes lou ran out of the t formation. he also had the personnel and the designed offense to do it. i won't get into to offensive philosophies and the x's and o's that go with it because you'll never get it. i also prefer power football but preferring something and saying other offensive philosophies are wrong or mistakes is dumb. why not tell steph curry to just post up all the time if that's was the type of basketball you prefer. remember when holtz went against what he did best and gave us the "blarney stone " ? he was trying to utilize powlus strengths at the detriment of his own. he didn't have the personnel to run it effectively. the majority of the players on the offensive side he recruited were for his conventional run first offense. the game has changed. again, i don't PREFER kellys style of offense but there is nothing wrong with it. it's actually becoming pretty much the norm everywhere except the NFL.
 
This from a guy who thinks players will start asking their coaches to opt out of bowl games ...

Sure tell us how a jet sweep is preferable to going off tackle vs Navy inside the 10 ..... or how 2nd and 1 or 3rd and goal from the one is better off running out of the shotgun .... Lou ran the power T .... unstoppable .... your posts indicate any experience you "claim" to have was lost on you .... plain dumb .... I'm confident you can come up with some equally dumb rationales
why would a draft eligible play have to ask ? that's dumb. it won't be a common occurrence but don't think for a minute some players won't entertain the idea. jaylon smith is exhibit A.
 
OMG! This moron knows more than the football coach as well! LMAO....Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't ND play for the NC 3 years ago? Didn't they just play in the Fiesta Bowl last year? I would think that being good enough to play in the Fiesta Bowl means you are probably one of the top 7-8 teams in the country. So, the basketball coach gets to 2 consecutive Elite 8's and wins an ACC title...the football coach plays for a NC and goes to a major bowl all in the past 3 yrs. and the both of them suck! What a freakin' loser this jerk is...he probably knows more than the Field Hockey coach as well...
 
And for all you conspiracy theorists. Lest we forget Joey Bosa, who used the perfect technique to get himself ejected for a textbook targeting call. Goodbye college career. Hello first round and the NFL. Coincidence that Bosa was ejected just a few plays after Jaylon was injured? You make the call.
 
good grief, the coach is set up for the next 3 years, if he wins this year, who gives a R-A about last year or...
isn't it possible to just let it play out? We all anticipated the need to rebuild the DL and the OL, find a QB and thoroughly install a system.

Entering year 7 is all about the performance results. W's and a Major Bowl W are the measures.
(just getting in a major to get a beatdown is not what would be 'success'. CW got to 2 major bowls and got beatdowns; BK has done it twice)
 
I don't ever want to side with a troll, but Kelly really is staring down his legacy right now. He has 3 years to win a major bowl AND NC, or be considered an average coach (failure?) during his time at ND. And if he doesn't do the above in his next 3 years, his legacy is cast. Not an easy task.

Most of us fans that have followed ND football over these few years don't consider him a failure by any means. But future generations, or posters if you will, will find it more and more difficult to consider him the "great coach" that many of us believe he has been for ND. And he really only has 3, maybe 4 years to do it. That's a pretty tall order.

Go Coach Kelly!
Go Irish!
 
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