OT The Hunt

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

That's not the point.
Hate speech was given a green light by the supreme court.
I have little issue with that or even the lyrics. NWA was pushing boundaries.
NDE stated though "We already limit violent kinds of speech."
I would think that line would fall into the "violent " category don't you think?

Under the case law interpreting the boundaries of free speech under the First Amendment, speech that merely advocates violence or criminal activity is not unlawful. That rule was established in Bradenburg v. Ohio, where the Supreme Court reversed the criminal convictions of members of a Ku Klux Klan group because their statements at a rally did not express an immediate or imminent threat to do violence. Thus, most rap lyrics, while repugnant, are not unlawful. On the other hand, speech that advocates imminent lawless action does not receive First Amendment protection. Similarly, speech made for the principal purpose of creating panic, e.g., falsely shouting "fire" in a theater, is not protected free speech. The reality is that the First Amendment protects almost all speech, however abhorrent, repulsive or ill conceived it may be at times, and that is truly one of the great things about this country. Despite the disparate political views frequently expressed on this board, I expect that is one founding principal all of us share in common.

 

[rgc7]

Under the case law interpreting the boundaries of free speech under the First Amendment, speech that merely advocates violence or criminal activity is not unlawful. That rule was established in Bradenburg v. Ohio, where the Supreme Court reversed the criminal convictions of members of a Ku Klux Klan group because their statements at a rally did not express an immediate or imminent threat to do violence. Thus, most rap lyrics, while repugnant, are not unlawful. On the other hand, speech that advocates imminent lawless action does not receive First Amendment protection. Similarly, speech made for the principal purpose of creating panic, e.g., falsely shouting "fire" in a theater, is not protected free speech. The reality is that the First Amendment protects almost all speech, however abhorrent, repulsive or ill conceived it may be at times, and that is truly one of the great things about this country. Despite the disparate political views frequently expressed on this board, I expect that is one founding principal all of us share in common.

 

[rgc7]

Yes, Kool, you are correct on all points. Our Form of government rests upon our Constitution. and
I hate to see the Constitutional rights of any Americans taken away.
However, with ever right comes responsibility, and respect for law and order. Once a large enough
Percentage of any society does not live up to the responsible that comes with their freedoms, society
Can become chaotic to the extreme were laws are broken, violence becomes common place, riots
Break out, morals become relative, police become ineffective or impotent, gangs like Antifa beat and intimidate and violate the rights of other ( they then project their fascism onto their victims ) , and eventually all our freedoms Become relative to the whims of the political powers and the brutality of the new Brown Shirts. When our most powerful police powers of our government become corrupt and political , we become
police state that has , and is still trying , to overthrow our President.
When I lived in Spain in the early 1960’s Francisco Franco was the Dictator. The laws were strictly
Enforced. Franco’s political enemies were certainly silent or in prison.
No one would talk politics until they really knew you, and then the talks were always in private.
The Spaniards in my age group at the University with me wanted more freedoms and did not especially
Care for Franco.
On the other hand, the older people who had fought or had witnessed the bloody Spanish civil
War loved Franco. He was the one who united Spain after that horrendous blood bath. He brought
Order out of the chaos.
There was certainly Law and Order , Crime was nil, and one could walk the streets and deserted
Parks at night without the least bit of fear.
I certainly am not advocating dictatorship, but once complete chaos takes hold of a society,
It becomes more and more difficult to restore order and civility.

 

[NDEwing18]

Like “Pigs in Basket , Fry them Like Bacon !, “ “ Stab the ,.... in the heart “, like Maxine Waters rallying
Crowds to “ Get in their faces, in Restaurants, on the streets, outside their homes . “ ,
We are really doing a great job limiting violent kinds of speech !

I’m ass

Yes, Kool, you are correct on all points. Our Form of government rests upon our Constitution. and
I hate to see the Constitutional rights of any Americans taken away.
However, with ever right comes responsibility, and respect for law and order. Once a large enough
Percentage of any society does not live up to the responsible that comes with their freedoms, society
Can become chaotic to the extreme were laws are broken, violence becomes common place, riots
Break out, morals become relative, police become ineffective or impotent, gangs like Antifa beat and intimidate and violate the rights of other ( they then project their fascism onto their victims ) , and eventually all our freedoms Become relative to the whims of the political powers and the brutality of the new Brown Shirts. When our most powerful police powers of our government become corrupt and political , we become
police state that has , and is still trying , to overthrow our President.
When I lived in Spain in the early 1960’s Francisco Franco was the Dictator. The laws were strictly
Enforced. Franco’s political enemies were certainly silent or in prison.
No one would talk politics until they really knew you, and then the talks were always in private.
The Spaniards in my age group at the University with me wanted more freedoms and did not especially
Care for Franco.
On the other hand, the older people who had fought or had witnessed the bloody Spanish civil
War loved Franco. He was the one who united Spain after that horrendous blood bath. He brought
Order out of the chaos.
There was certainly Law and Order , Crime was nil, and one could walk the streets and deserted
Parks at night without the least bit of fear.
I certainly am not advocating dictatorship, but once complete chaos takes hold of a society,
It becomes more and more difficult to restore order and civility.

I guess I was not expecting anyone to suggest that there were benefits to authoritarian rule where political enemies were thrown in prison.

 

[rgc7]

Please read more carefully !

“ I am certainly not advocating Dictatorship. “.

 

[rgc7]

I’m ass


I guess I was not expecting anyone to suggest that there were benefits to authoritarian rule where political enemies were thrown in prison.

 

[NDEwing18]

Please read more carefully !

“ I am certainly not advocating Dictatorship. “.

You can't include that carveout but then talk about how good it was in Spain during that time when political opponents were silent or in prison.

 

[Silent Banjo]

You can't include that carveout but then talk about how good it was in Spain during that time when political opponents were silent or in prison.

Shades of "Mussolini made the trains run on time."

 

[rgc7]

I’m ass


I guess I was not expecting anyone to suggest that there were benefits to authoritarian rule where political enemies were thrown in prison.

NDE,
After reading the above quote, since I clearly stated my views on Dictatorships ,I think that you are referring to the Mueller Investigation where people were intimidated and put into prison . Or the actions of Congressman Nadler and other who are trying to
Prosecute President Trump for Absolutely NO CRIME.
That is exactly what happens in Police States. In a Constitutional Republic we vote people into
an out of elected offices, and the opposition party tries to cooperate with the party in power on common
Issues for the good of the country as a whole.
We do not use the Power of the Police State or trump up charges to bring about the over throw of
An elected official. That is exact what Dictators do !

 

[rgc7]

You can't include that carveout but then talk about how good it was in Spain during that time when political opponents were silent or in prison.

 

[tbonesays]

Never heard of it? It sounds like the Purge plot line.

Sounds like 100 other films that sell a collection of violent scenes bound together by a cheap political pretext.

 

[rgc7]

NDE,
You are very good at doing what the left always does. They take things out of context ,
and try to paint Opposition points of view in a negative light.
If you read the whole thread completely and fairly.
1. I was describing what happens when a society declines into chaos.
2. What the Chaotic conditions brought about in Spain
3. My personal experiences living there under the dictatorship.
4. The views of the various age groups in Spanish Society at that time.
5. Franco’s rebuilding of a destroyed and fractional society into a united nation, and then standing up
To Hitler ( who did Aid Franco in the Spanish Civil war ) and telling him in no uncertain terms that Spain would Not enter into WWII.
The Older Spanish population was certainly very happy with that decision which would have resulted in
Complete disaster and terrible bloodshed for the Spanish people had Franco not stood up to Hitler.
And for those of us who were on Student Visas there , there were certain advantages and disadvantages.
One certainly did not want to get into any type of dispute with the authorities because your civil rights were nil.
But to deny, that a Dictatorship with a prospering economy does not have very little crime would be disingenuous . Yes , as another poster stated, Mussolini did have the trains running on time. Did that make the Italian Dictatorship good and benevolent? No !

 

[NDEwing18]

NDE,
After reading the above quote, since I clearly stated my views on Dictatorships ,I think that you are referring to the Mueller Investigation where people were intimidated and put into prison . Or the actions of Congressman Nadler and other who are trying to
Prosecute President Trump for Absolutely NO CRIME.
That is exactly what happens in Police States. In a Constitutional Republic we vote people into
an out of elected offices, and the opposition party tries to cooperate with the party in power on common
Issues for the good of the country as a whole.
We do not use the Power of the Police State or trump up charges to bring about the over throw of
An elected official. That is exact what Dictators do !

Sorry, pal. You were the one championing the benefits of a society where people put political opponents in prison, not me.

You pay too much attention to right wing media.

And pardon me if I chuckle at the idea of a conservative complaining that the opposition party should try to cooperate with the party in power on common issues for the good of the country as a whole when the Republican-led House and Senate did very little, if anything, to "cooperate" with Obama.

 

[rgc7]

Sorry, pal. You were the one championing the benefits of a society where people put political opponents in prison, not me.

You pay too much attention to right wing media.

And pardon me if I chuckle at the idea of a conservative complaining that the opposition party should try to cooperate with the party in power on common issues for the good of the country as a whole when the Republican-led House and Senate did very little, if anything, to "cooperate" with Obama.

 

[deadirishpoet]

NDE,
You are very good at doing what the left always does. They take things out of context ,
and try to paint Opposition points of view in a negative light.
If you read the whole thread completely and fairly.
1. I was describing what happens when a society declines into chaos.
2. What the Chaotic conditions brought about in Spain
3. My personal experiences living there under the dictatorship.
4. The views of the various age groups in Spanish Society at that time.
5. Franco’s rebuilding of a destroyed and fractional society into a united nation, and then standing up
To Hitler ( who did Aid Franco in the Spanish Civil war ) and telling him in no uncertain terms that Spain would Not enter into WWII.
The Older Spanish population was certainly very happy with that decision which would have resulted in
Complete disaster and terrible bloodshed for the Spanish people had Franco not stood up to Hitler.
And for those of us who were on Student Visas there , there were certain advantages and disadvantages.
One certainly did not want to get into any type of dispute with the authorities because your civil rights were nil.
But to deny, that a Dictatorship with a prospering economy does not have very little crime would be disingenuous . Yes , as another poster stated, Mussolini did have the trains running on time. Did that make the Italian Dictatorship good and benevolent? No !

Bingo

Also in your other post "However, with ever right comes responsibility, and respect for law and order." Is spot on

 

[deadirishpoet]

Sorry, pal. You were the one championing the benefits of a society where people put political opponents in prison, not me.

You pay too much attention to right wing media.

And pardon me if I chuckle at the idea of a conservative complaining that the opposition party should try to cooperate with the party in power on common issues for the good of the country as a whole when the Republican-led House and Senate did very little, if anything, to "cooperate" with Obama.

No he wasn't

President Obama had a pen and phone and never felt the need to work with a Republican Congress or follow the constitution for that matter

 

[rgc7]

I was not championing anything , but describing ! “ I stated that Political opponents were put into prison “
Which was and is a fact in a Dictatorship. ( not some thing I thought was a positive or good )
I stated that there was law and order and just about zero crime , and that to me was indeed a positive.
That was a fact.
While you are correct that our Opposition did not cooperate very often with Obama is also correct,
But there was not to much to agree upon. However, no one tried to overthrow Obama or try to
Impeach him on trumped up fake crimes , nor attack his family.
The opposition accepted the election results and left Obama Free to govern , in spite of very little
Common ground to agree upon.
There you go again with “ The Right Wing Media .” To try to disparage any attempt at honest dialog.
Should I come back at you with “ the Left Wing Media “ accusation ?
No , I try to debate the topic on hand , WITHIN its complete context, not projecting negative INTENT
That was not stated by the person posting. No I won’t do those things !

 

[deadirishpoet]

NDE,
After reading the above quote, since I clearly stated my views on Dictatorships ,I think that you are referring to the Mueller Investigation where people were intimidated and put into prison . Or the actions of Congressman Nadler and other who are trying to
Prosecute President Trump for Absolutely NO CRIME.
That is exactly what happens in Police States. In a Constitutional Republic we vote people into
an out of elected offices, and the opposition party tries to cooperate with the party in power on common
Issues for the good of the country as a whole.
We do not use the Power of the Police State or trump up charges to bring about the over throw of
An elected official. That is exact what Dictators do !

Like sending a swat team to arrest an old man while informing a certain news outlet to be there to film it.
Mafia Don's didn't even experience this.

 

[rgc7]

Like sending a swat team to arrest an old man while informing a certain news outlet to be there to film it.
Mafia Don's didn't even experience this.

 

[rgc7]

Here is another fact during the Obama Administration. With the except of the Tea Party which was certainly
A peaceful demonstration. The only violent demonstrations were from the left of the political spectrum.
There were Black Panters at some polling booths that Eric Holder’s DOJ did nothing about. In every
Case where there was a black and white confrontation especially when the police were involved,
Obama jumped into the case and claimed that the police acted wrongly. Obama was proven wrong in just about every case, but his constant playing the Race Card brought about riots and murders of policemen.
Angry mobs chanting anti police slogans. In short , the riots and mobs and violence were just about always
Coming from the Left.
Every since Trump has become President, the Left has become more violent with vicious verbal
attacks, phony investigations based upon false accusations, vicious physical Antifa attacks on opposition
Rally’s and speakers, just about all opposition thought and speeches have been eliminated from
College curriculum and campus discussion.
The Democratic Party has used Liberal Judges to stop everything trump tries to do, they refuse to
Provide funds for border security that they VERBALLY fo for many years. Now, in the face of the reality
of massive problems at our borders, the BOLD FACE lie and say that there is no crisis.
The left has openly embraced Socialism ( which is complete control by government of our economy,
Educational Institutions, Health Care, and every aspect of our lives.)
Funny how the Left hates Dictatorship, but advocates , arguable the worse form of dictatorship ,
That exists in the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea, China, Venezuela. Places were there is little to any
Form of freedom. With the exception of perhaps Russia and China , there exist abject poverty and
Misery.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Here is another fact during the Obama Administration. With the except of the Tea Party which was certainly
A peaceful demonstration. The only violent demonstrations were from the left of the political spectrum.
There were Black Panters at some polling booths that Eric Holder’s DOJ did nothing about. In every
Case where there was a black and white confrontation especially when the police were involved,
Obama jumped into the case and claimed that the police acted wrongly. Obama was proven wrong in just about every case, but his constant playing the Race Card brought about riots and murders of policemen.
Angry mobs chanting anti police slogans. In short , the riots and mobs and violence were just about always
Coming from the Left.
Every since Trump has become President, the Left has become more violent with vicious verbal
attacks, phony investigations based upon false accusations, vicious physical Antifa attacks on opposition
Rally’s and speakers, just about all opposition thought and speeches have been eliminated from
College curriculum and campus discussion.
The Democratic Party has used Liberal Judges to stop everything trump tries to do, they refuse to
Provide funds for border security that they VERBALLY fo for many years. Now, in the face of the reality
of massive problems at our borders, the BOLD FACE lie and say that there is no crisis.
The left has openly embraced Socialism ( which is complete control by government of our economy,
Educational Institutions, Health Care, and every aspect of our lives.)
Funny how the Left hates Dictatorship, but advocates , arguable the worse form of dictatorship ,
That exists in the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea, China, Venezuela. Places were there is little to any
Form of freedom. With the exception of perhaps Russia and China , there exist abject poverty and
Misery.

Imho
Whats funny is those( education,healthcare ect) are state issues.
They can have that in their states. There is absolutely no reason the federal government should have that control over a portion of the population whether it's left or right.
This this why the left wants to get rid of the electoral college.
It makes no sense.
Most the European countries that have this have less population than most individuals states in America so the opportunity for the states with the population that wants that can try it.
If it works others will follow.
No reason to push the failures of the VA,Amtrak,SOS, ect down the nations throat.

 

[rgc7]

Imho
Whats funny is those( education,healthcare ect) are state issues.
They can have that in their states. There is absolutely no reason the federal government should have that control over a portion of the population whether it's left or right.
This this why the left wants to get rid of the electoral college.
It makes no sense.
Most the European countries that have this have less population than most individuals states in America so the opportunity for the states with the population that wants that can try it.
If it works others will follow.
No reason to push the failures of the VA,Amtrak,SOS, ect down the nations throat.

 

[rgc7]

Poet, my brother,
You are 100% correct about all those programs being state responsibilities and not federal responsibilities.
However, the Democrats are not big supporters of our Constitution because it, and the Deplorable's ,
Who cling to their religions and guns are the only thing that stand in their way.
Their ultimate goal is to make us a completely socialist country with the ultimate power residing in the Socialist State.

 

[rgc7]

I see that Universal has pulled the Hunt !