He grabbed her arm, at the end of which was a cocked fist. My guess is that a reasonable person would say he was justified in grabbing her arm.
OT: FSU' Johnson arrest video
- Thread starter perseverare
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You forget that Florida has a stand your ground law. I think if they allow you to pull a gun to SYG, they will also allow a warning fist. He started everything by bulling into her. She's got a right to protect those precious drinks.
again if 2 girls or Rousey - no question where the blame lies! If we are going to app,y law w/o gender bias this is no brainer.
NDEvwas closest: the argument the prosecutor will make is not who was the aggressor ( he would lose!); he will argue that the respinse was excessive.
This whole matter is negotiated to mutual responsibility.
NDEvwas closest: the argument the prosecutor will make is not who was the aggressor ( he would lose!); he will argue that the respinse was excessive.
This whole matter is negotiated to mutual responsibility.
Yeah, clocking a girl in a bar the way he did isn't a "punk" move.
What would you prefer to call it?
You were commenting on his dialogue without having any idea what he said. That's stereotyping.
That's funny.
Maybe Johnson clocked Tommy Rees' sister. The plot thickens....
http://www.purdueexponent.org/sports/article_c37ce39e-ede0-11e0-b2ef-0019bb30f31a.html.
I don't think it's a stretch to to say that a guy who made a punk move also probably expressed himself as a punk.
Perhaps he was quoting Socrates, Voltaire, Confucius....
What is the stereotype you are driving at? I am curious.
I read the beginning of that and was thinking "almost $500 in fines plus 24 hours of community service, just for being drunk in public? -Ooof!"; but then I saw that she may have started a brawl. So that is a bit more justifiable.
Yeah, and if it was two guys? Betting he wouldn't tried to shove past him.
.........and she waited her turn patiently while the two girls at the bar was being served. She started to move up for her turn and he plowed right in. Again a little manners and self control and the kid still might have a scholly.
I am just saying you have no idea what either one said. She could be trailer trash with a mouth like a sailor too. Who knows what she called him, though that's not an excuse for a violent outburst.
I would assume both were quick with the F-bombs/other colorful explicatives of our modern age. I blame Al Swearengen.
tex
she or the prosecutor: a very weak argument. In a situation where you have 2 wrongs: the court is not going to decide the leastvwrong! wrong is wrong
I do find it interesting how conditioned the attitudes are that it is always the fault of the guy! Yet last week there was debate over "equality".
"blown about by every breeze"
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Perse principles like equality aren't applied in a vacuum. His whole defense would be predicated on self-defense. For self-defense to be justified it has to be reasonable in the how and when it is used.
Is it stereotyping to say people who act like punks probably say things that punks say? I think it is assuming but I took the accusation of stereotyping initially to be one couched in race not what CGVR was talking about.
Getting into a tough area. If I punch you in the face and you shoot me dead with a gun, that's clearly an unreasonable unwarranted reaction. But if I punch you in the face and you punch me back in the face, does the fact that you are a better and/or stronger puncher than I am make that an unreasonable reaction?
Sal nailed it:
"Is it stereotyping to say people who act like punks probably say things that punks say? I think it is assuming but I took the accusation of stereotyping initially to be one couched in race not what CGVR was talking about."
This is an interesting social experiment. My first stereotyping item was not his race, it was the goofy backwards baseball hat with the size sticker still on it. That kind of says punk or thug to me, but of course that's a 57 year old white guy stereotyping.
Legally yes. If you punch me in the face but you are intoxicated and significantly smaller and weaker then me and I am do not fear for my safety, those factors affect whether or not my reaction is reasonable.
To use self defense in a justified matter one has to (a) have a reasonable fear of their own safety or the safety of others and (b) can use force to a reasonable degree necessary to avoid harm. This isn't addressing the fact that most states' self defense laws also state you are not justified in using self defense carte blanche is you are the reason you need to defend yourself, i.e. I can start a fight and then pull out a knife to end the fight and claim self defense.
Florida has stand your ground: he was standing his ground; Sal you can criticisize him 8 ways from Sunday: but convict him: no chance! there is a better case against her.
point being neither has a case.
Got it. I was zeroed in on the "punk haymaker" he threw. The chick had a good jaw... I was surprised she stood up to it.
Do you know whether this law applies to defending yourself against force in general, or deadly force?
yes, my earlier point was as alluded to by NDE; was he using unreasonable force: is there a distinction between punches based on 'gender'; how was he to discern what her pitential was! It could have been Rousey like!
Bad behavior should not find an ally in the court room!
I might say that was probably not her first bar fight, but then I would be..........................................................stereotyping.
Not all punches are created equal. A ten year old could attempt to strike you. Does that then justify punching him as hard as you can?
Also, Johnson made first contact. If he hadn't done that or had decided to apologize, she never would have responded with the "threatening" air fist. And his GRABBING her was more threatening than any kick or punch she launched in retaliation.
That is a poor application of stand your ground. As said much earlier for a misdemeanor battery charge this isn't something that goes to trial.
Let's remember that the right hand of DJ is off screen for the most part I believe from the accounts I read and from looking at her reactions to him that he made contact early on with her using that right hand that is off the screen.
I might say that was probably not her first bar fight, but then I would be..........................................................stereotyping.
^ and to be sure that will be looked into! She cocked her fist immediately, raised her knee as if displaying a self defense ( although she was the aggressor here) mode ... this is NOT the typical reaction of a well mannered and peace loving person. She been down that road before for sure!
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he grabed with his left hand - she never looked anywhere but up at him; targeting him; NO, the right was not an obvious threat known to her.
She was ready willing and looking for an altercation. Her immediacy was hard to understand; heck he might have said excuse me or offered her a drink if she wan't in the process of attempting an amateur dental realignment!
I noticed in the stop action his hand is open with him giving her a serious slap but not necessarily a punch with a balled up fist. Not making any excuses here other than it appeared to be a slap and not a punch. So, once again I think the media got it wrong.
And as for the young "lady" ahem.......ahem.......I'm wondering just what her punishment will be in this matter for the use of a "racial slur" and initiating a fight in a bar? Is that not a violation of someone's rights? What about a student conduct hearing for her?
My guess is absolutely nothing happens to her............if so, that's too bad. I suppose now the take some females will have is it's OK to punch and kick a guy in the balls because after all, they are girls and guys aren't allowed to do much of anything. Sad situation.
And as for the young "lady" ahem.......ahem.......I'm wondering just what her punishment will be in this matter for the use of a "racial slur" and initiating a fight in a bar? Is that not a violation of someone's rights? What about a student conduct hearing for her?
My guess is absolutely nothing happens to her............if so, that's too bad. I suppose now the take some females will have is it's OK to punch and kick a guy in the balls because after all, they are girls and guys aren't allowed to do much of anything. Sad situation.
