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OT Briles out at Baylor

NDAFA has nailed the Holtz story.

It's here that many people have a problem:

NDAFArly said:
the police do the interview & it's there job to ALSO protect the person being accused
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There seems to be an implication that the local PD worked a little to hard to protect the accused. This implication is coming from some respectable sources including NY Times and ESPN.

What's important is that there is now a federal investigation going on. Often times these federal investigations are able to peel back the layers and let us all know what really happened with the police investigation.

I'm waiting for the results from the feds. In the meantime, as for the bashing? They're just noles on a ND site so I don't worry about offending them.
 
john0gaunt said:
NDAFA has nailed the Holtz story.

It's here that many people have a problem:



There seems to be an implication that the local PD worked a little to hard to protect the accused. This implication is coming from some respectable sources including NY Times and ESPN.

What's important is that there is now a federal investigation going on. Often times these federal investigations are able to peel back the layers and let us all know what really happened with the police investigation.

I'm waiting for the results from the feds. In the meantime, as for the bashing? They're just noles on a ND site so I don't worry about offending them.
Click to expand...

I actually think the local PD will probably be reprimanded for their actions, but the word on the street is that even though they handled it unprofessionally that when the Feds reviewed the tape of the accusers interview they also believe their was not a case of rape, sexual assault or even sexual battery.
 
Epictitus said:
Duo,

Just a question with a sincere attempt to see if you can answer anything honestly.

Why persist with the "Argus" references? I have never even seen a post. And implying that my daughter went to FSU is even more disgusting than implying that you are less than a lying POS.

Other than those two blunders, all seems normal here.
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Who is this Argus guy???

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
 
NDAFArly said:
No, there is a thing called a "probable cause warrant" that a detective will file with a screening prosecutor before an arrest & State charges are made with sexual offenses.

During this process they don't need to have the normal amount of evidence, just enough for the screening proesecotor to file the charge. The detectives usually only need the accusers story & proof the defendant was there to get the warrant.

In a case such as this, the story is the key. The accuser changed her story twice in the initial interview & then a third time later. The detectives are usually very nice to the accuser & dont pressure them, but know that if the accuser can't get their story straight there is no way they wil make it through deposition by the defendants lawyers.

This is why the majority of these cases don't get filed, because the story of the accuser doesn't hold up under minimal scrutiny. People always say "the police cover it up" but the truth is the police do the interview & it's there job to ALSO protect the person being accused. If they feel there might be a crime they take the case to the screening prosecutor, but if they feel that the accuser is lying (or changing their story) they dont have to do anything. It's not a coverup, it's actually a good thing not to just go around charging everyone with felony sexual crimes just because of a story.
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but to the reasonable man, there was an attempted coverup re JW's situation. It seems, in a good many instances, that the TPD decides matters not the DA's.
 
perseverare said:
but to the reasonable man, there was an attempted coverup re JW's situation. It seems, in a good many instances, that the TPD decides matters not the DA's.
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If the TPD did a cover up, why were they not sued? They have paid out millions and millions over the years for their incompetence.

Why were they not sued in this case??
 
Epictitus said:
Duo,

Just a question with a sincere attempt to see if you can answer anything honestly.

Why persist with the "Argus" references? I have never even seen a post. And implying that my daughter went to FSU is even more disgusting than implying that you are less than a lying POS.

Other than those two blunders, all seems normal here.
Click to expand...

I have never seen a "Argus" post either. Those Florida State fans including cgvr are insane about that word, though.
 
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You are not allowed to sue a local police department in a situation like this.

FSU settled one small portion of this, they are still being investigated by the Feds which will get ugly and Winston will pay a huge amount to avoid testifying ( lying) under oath.

All things apparently about normal at FSU.
 
Bodizephax said:
I have never seen a "Argus" post either. Those Florida State fans including cgvr are insane about that word, though.
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FYI, Going way back (to the days when Bobby Bowden was coaching) argus started out posting as Argusman on FSU's Rival's board. Needless to say he eventually got banned for life. He then showed up here on the ND board and other boards and as he would get banned he would dream up new handles and return. His list of handles is long but it all started years ago with argusman. Today you will see posters refer to him as argusman, argus and/or argie. It's not unusual for him to post under several different names sometimes in the same post. The really insane part is he will carry on conversations with himself. Most times he is agreeing with himself about some sort of hatred against Bobby Bowden or anything related to FSU or even the ACC. Sometimes he will even fight with himself and often he contradicts himself or forgets what he said from one day to the next. Oh, and he once said he was the spitting image of JFK, Jr. Bwahahahahahaah! Good one considering he is retirement age! LOL! And on and on........totally insane.
 
Epictitus said:
You are not allowed to sue a local police department in a situation like this.

FSU settled one small portion of this, they are still being investigated by the Feds which will get ugly and Winston will pay a huge amount to avoid testifying ( lying) under oath.

All things apparently about normal at FSU.
Click to expand...

Just a quick sidenote, the defendant (Winston in this case) does not have to testify. In fact, the defendent very rarely ever testifies in a sexual felony case. It does them no good.
The accuser MUST testify & every answer has to match her deposition or the case will be dismissed. Also if the accuser gets caught with a different story they can be charged with either perjury, filing a false police report, or both. This is the main reason 95% of these cases are settled. The defendent can just sit the rev& watch the accuser hang themselves. The prosecutor knows this & will try to negotiate a plea unless the case is a slam dunk victory.

As for the Feds investigation. I have no inside or knowledge of this investigation, but it's been two years & they haven't even filed a warrant on Winston says a lot. They can easily do this just to force Winston to speak to them, then drop it later, but they aren't even doing that. It is a very, very, very easy thing to do & they would have done it by now most likely if they thought at all he might be guilty.

Anything is possible, but they (the prosecution) always wants to move as fast as they can or else they get a lot of witnesses who testify "I don't remember?" which destroys their case.

Sorry for the legal rambling.
 
NDAFA..........

As an under graduate student way back in the day I had a part time job working in the State Attorney'
s office in Tallahassee. I can attest that what you have said is exactly correct. Of course, if the lawyers can get any type of settlement it's a win for them. For them it's on to the next case and there are plenty of them pending out there these days. Those guys are tapping a vein of gold.
 
Duo said:
NDAFA..........

As an under graduate student way back in the day I had a part time job working in the State Attorney'
s office in Tallahassee. I can attest that what you have said is exactly correct. Of course, if the lawyers can get any type of settlement it's a win for them. For them it's on to the next case and there are plenty of them pending out there these days. Those guys are tapping a vein of gold.
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They will get a huge settlement because a civil case has different rules & it's easier to prove guilt. The accuser will get a few million from FSU & Winston (which is nothing to them to save themselves the embarrassment of a lawsuit & civil trial) & she will get to stay out of the limelight, not have to testify under oath & be set for life financially.
The local PD will probably have some people go on probation without pay. The Feds won't have to use taxpayer money.
Everybody moves on.
 
Epictitus said:
You are not allowed to sue a local police department in a situation like this.

FSU settled one small portion of this, they are still being investigated by the Feds which will get ugly and Winston will pay a huge amount to avoid testifying ( lying) under oath.

All things apparently about normal at FSU.
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Just curious. What's your definition of "ugly"?

Do you know how many universities are being investigated by Title IX? Me neither but I do know it's many dozens. Do you know how many receive penalties of note (something other than a letter of reprimand requesting changes in procedure) when found guilty of having not complied to Title IX guidelines? Almost zero. And that's when charges have been filed in a rape case and guilt is established.

Ugly is Title IX telling the university they must address the problems found and implement changes or face "possibility" of loss of Federal funding. That amost never happens. This is exactly what occurred with the ND investigation a few years back with the Lizzy case. ND was forced to change their protocol as a result.

This is historical protocol for cases like this.
 
scotchirishblood said:
Regarding Title IX investigations here's a two year old list.

Note: Just because a school is on the list doesn't mean they are guilty of anything. It means a complaint against the university has been made and the Feds are looking into it.

http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...-open-title-ix-sexual-violence-investigations

This is a partial list as numerous schools have been added since 2014.
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"The University of Notre Dame is among more than 165 colleges under federal investigation for possible Title IX violations related to sexual violence on campus.

As of Feb. 24, the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights was investigating 208 cases for issues of sexual violence at 167 colleges and universities." "The federal agency says the investigation of Notre Dame was opened Feb. 19. It's unclear whether a formal complaint or a compliance review prompted the investigation."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-dame-title-ix-violations-20160301-story.html
 
The "defendant" in a civil trial does have to testify and that is why FSU already paid off their end of the civil litigation and why Winston will pay off in a much larger was. If allowed to testify he would have to lie and that would open him up to criminal charges.

The Title IX case is a beast of its own and no single school faces more problems because not only did they not investigate they helped Winston avoid prosecution and showed zero compassion for their own student who reported the rape.
 
More made up garbage from argusman aka BigFellaFan, Epictitus, johnOgaunt, tim terriffic, holy smoke and a whole cast of others. He suffers from severe schizophrenia in the form of dissociative identity disorder, also called multiple personality disorder.
 
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Please take your trolling elsewhere, we don't want all our threads hijacked by your trolling. From the Wiki.

Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns; smart posters, if they are cognizant of trolls and other identity deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from trolling postings

Trolls tend to have dark personality traits and show signs of sadism, antisocial behavior,psychopathy
 
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argus should tell this to his other minions, 3 of which are in this thread.
 
Epictitus said:
Duo,

Just a question with a sincere attempt to see if you can answer anything honestly.

Why persist with the "Argus" references? I have never even seen a post. And implying that my daughter went to FSU is even more disgusting than implying that you are less than a lying POS.

Other than those two blunders, all seems normal here.
Click to expand...
You are by far the biggest and worst lying POS I have ever seen. Who's Argus? You are we all know.
 
john0gaunt said:
Please take your trolling elsewhere, we don't want all our threads hijacked by your trolling. From the Wiki.

Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns; smart posters, if they are cognizant of trolls and other identity deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from trolling postings

Trolls tend to have dark personality traits and show signs of sadism, antisocial behavior,psychopathy
Click to expand...
Look it's Argus!
 
Epictitus said:
Farley,

The ONLY reason there wasn't enough evidence to take Winston to trial was because such evidence was surpressed and destroyed by Tallahassee Police, school officials and Jumbo.

Stay tuned, it's far fro over.
Click to expand...
Read more and post less!
 
BigFellaFan said:
The "defendant" in a civil trial does have to testify and that is why FSU already paid off their end of the civil litigation and why Winston will pay off in a much larger was. If allowed to testify he would have to lie and that would open him up to criminal charges.

The Title IX case is a beast of its own and no single school faces more problems because not only did they not investigate they helped Winston avoid prosecution and showed zero compassion for their own student who reported the rape.
Click to expand...
I thought there was over 1000 pages of investigation and that the university hired an independent high court judge (to eliminate any bias) who, after extensive review and interviews, ruled that there was insufficient evidence to prove guilt.

Just curious. Didn't the girl provide numerous conflicted accounts of what occurred that night? Which one (if any) wasn't a lie? Wouldn't that open her up to criminal charges too? Evidence proves she lied. It's only speculation by Winston haters that proves Winston lied. There hasn't been any evidence I know of to support their supposition.

What evidence did his coach suppress? That's a new one. Never heard that claim before. Please enlighten.

"Ignorance is bliss."
 
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scotchirishblood said:
I thought there was over 1000 pages of investigation and that the university hired an independent high court judge (to eliminate any bias) who, after extensive review and interviews, ruled that there was insufficient evidence to prove guilt.

Just curious. Didn't the girl provide numerous conflicted accounts of what occurred that night? Which one (if any) wasn't a lie? Wouldn't that open her up to criminal charges too? Evidence proves she lied. It's only speculation by Winston haters that proves Winston lied. There hasn't been any evidence I know of to support their supposition.

What evidence did his coach suppress? That's a new one. Never heard that claim before. Please enlighten.

"Ignorance is bliss."
Click to expand...
Another Criminole posing as an Irish fan. Love the ignore button for morons like this.
 
Nocalirish said:
Another Criminole posing as an Irish fan. Love the ignore button for morons like this.
Click to expand...
Another mindless post that offers nothing to the thread. Only name calling which confirms the poster's ignorance.

My post was more of a question than a statement of fact. Unlike a couple of others here who apparently have a direct line of communication with the Feds and FSU I have none of that. It's been a year or two but I'm pretty sure I remember reading in public articles the information I posted. If I'm mistaken feel free to offer up your infinite knowledge on the subject. If you have nothing to offer other than mindless name calling then read more and post less. This board will be better off. Please put me on ignore.
 
NDAFArly said:
We already know. It's in the sworn testimony during the case against Bob Davie for age discrimination. So there aren't theories, there is actual facts testified to in court. What's great about it is people aren't willing to lie under oath, so the truth came out.

Basically new administrators & Holtz clashed a lot. They wanted him gone. One administer even testified they didn't want Holtz to break Knute Rockne's wins at ND record (which he would have the next season, 7 wins away). They found a high ranking assistant to stab him in the back in exchange for the job. The witnesses were willing to admit all of this because none of it was illegal, so they wanted it to be clear during an actual case of a coach being fired illegally by Davies that they or Holtz did nothing wrong, they just didn't like each other.

A lot of the answers are in the testimony which pretty much exonerated Holtz of any wrong doing, & later ND administrators welcomed Holtz back which is why he is such a strong ND supporter again.
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not quite true. holtz recommended davie for the job. much like he named him interim head coach when dealing with his health issues.
 
Calling me Argus, and I suspect others feel the same way, make me wonder how bad this guy abused you!

You are simply wrong when you think we are all the same, but it is fun to watch.
 
Imagine how you would feel if you looked at your father's computer and discovered he was posting on a message board under a host of different names! And as you read his posts you see he used vulgar language and was calling people names. And to top it all he was having conversations with himself!!!

Whoa!............time for him to be estranged.
 
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Duo said:
Imagine how you would feel if you looked at your father's computer and discovered he was posting on a message board under a host of different names! And as you read his posts you see he used vulgar language and was calling people names. And to top it all he was having conversations with himself!!!

Whoa!............time for him to be estranged.
Click to expand...
Or strangled.
 
Duo said:
More made up garbage from argusman aka BigFellaFan, Epictitus, johnOgaunt, tim terriffic, holy smoke and a whole cast of others. He suffers from severe schizophrenia in the form of dissociative identity disorder, also called multiple personality disorder.
Click to expand...

Leonidas, martymight, 86s...others. This is just the past 2 years.... The best was when "argie" was claiming Wax would vouch for him and this message appeared.

"Give it a rest.

When someone comes here from another site and makes a post in good faith, you have no business being snarky and taking the tone of the thread into the gutter.

Consider this a warning.

We have a Smack Board - that no one ever uses since it was renamed after a beloved and deceased Irish Illustrated poster.

Many are tired of the tone of your posts.

Get a clue or I'll revoke your posting privileges and this place will be a nicer forum for it.

- Wax"

Within days multiple "argie" handles were launched to the cornfield....
 
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cgvr said:
We have a Smack Board - that no one ever uses since it was renamed after a beloved and deceased Irish Illustrated poster.
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The off-topic premium board is the board that was renamed after the late KenRockne. The Smack Board is a free board that is just called the Smack Board.

Instead of engaging Argus, why not just report the offending post? Feuding/posting back just makes ya'll appear as crazy as Argus.
 
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echowaker said:
not quite true. holtz recommended davie for the job. much like he named him interim head coach when dealing with his health issues.
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Which was all before Davies told the administration that Holtz was not mentally stable enough to run the program.
By the time Bowl season rolled around they were not so close. Thus Holtz refusal to coach or allow anyone else (Davies) to coach ND in a bowl even against administrations wishes.

That is why I said "stabbed in the back" because Holtz was going to hand a great program over to Davies but he trashed Lou to what was going to be his new bosses who didn't like Lou. Self-preservation for Davies.
 
irishalice said:
The off-topic premium board is the board that was renamed after the late KenRockne. The Smack Board is a free board that is just called the Smack Board.

Instead of engaging Argus, why not just report the offending post? Feuding/posting back just makes ya'll appear as crazy as Argus.
Click to expand...

Good idea Alice. Thank you..........again. ;)
 
NDAFArly said:
Which was all before Davies told the administration that Holtz was not mentally stable enough to run the program.
By the time Bowl season rolled around they were not so close. Thus Holtz refusal to coach or allow anyone else (Davies) to coach ND in a bowl even against administrations wishes.

That is why I said "stabbed in the back" because Holtz was going to hand a great program over to Davies but he trashed Lou to what was going to be his new bosses who didn't like Lou. Self-preservation for Davies.
Click to expand...

NFAFA......

All very interesting. First time I've heard it. Seems to clear up a lot of the fog surrounding the departure. Your posts are very informative. :)
 
Geez, the guy's name is Davie. When you misspell it multiple times in one post, I question whether you really follow ND.
 
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