And that is not racist. They have to follow a stupid rule.
What is the text. I don't read the racist nonsense
OT: Brian Flores Discrimination Lawsuit vs. NFL, et al.
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What is the text. I don't read the racist nonsense
If you can't see the difference between having black players and hiring a black head coach this isn't an argument worth having.
There was a time when many racists didn't think African Americans were smart enough to play quarterback or middle linebacker.
Either way there is a clear discrepancy in the amount of players and the amount of coaches in the NFL. You can have whatever opinion you want on why you think that is but you aren't changing my mind.
I've seen enough to know there is a total disconnect in the hiring process, I'm not saying it's racism but in the Brian Flores situation it sure as hell looks like that played a part.
Why do you think black coaches are fired or not hired due to racism and held to higher standards but black players lead the league, paid more than coaches, and are kept in the league despite some even having very violent crimes.
Answer is simple, owners will hire anyone that helps them win and drive $$$$$. If they aren't going to help them win and drive money they gone. It's not race.
How do we know what happened to Flores is not based on race? You cannot simply laugh and say impossible, NFL owners aren’t racist, that’s ridiculous.
Are there still racist people today? Of course, we all agree on that.
Then why is it so crazy to think that there are racist owners in every sport?
Flores won what, 10 games last year and won 8/9 to finish the season this year? They will now replace him with someone that has zero HC experience.
There are racist people everywhere. Just like there are sexist people everywhere.
Thanks for that minutely detailed legal explanation. Best one I’ve received since my general counsel prepped me for my Enron deposition in 2001.
Anyway, I knew someone would know something.
I agree that the INTENTIONAL DISCRIMINATION claim seems a HIGH BAR. But then Flores sounds like he's sitting at a late 50’s Birmingham lunch counter awaiting the appearance of George Wallace. In other words, he's pretty GUNG-HO.
The KEY as you say will be the existence or NOT of sufficient evidence to PROVE such a claim. And, yes, it could always be there.
At the same time, the NFL, like most of Corporate America is still a white man’s game, and that seems to be what Flores is going after.
He appears to want this suit to be AS DISRUPTIVE OF AMERICAN SOCIETY as BLM, CRT and the 1619 Project have been in the wake of the George Floyd murder and cases like it.
Seems like he’s had that COME TO JESUS EPIPHANY and might even be willing – metaphorically speaking – to be a SUICIDE BOMBER if it takes down the NFL as we know it. That's right -- Kaepernick II.
I also agree that his chances appear better under Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, given its “DISPARATE IMPACT” component. Still, there will need to be EVIDENCE. But if there is, SO BE IT. The law is the LAW.
But then, what does this mean going forward? That . . .
- Every black coach who is fired – or even passed over – is now encouraged to file suit?
- A Black Coach Quota will be instituted?
- The NFL will be forced to “enfranchise” BLACK OWNERSHIP on some percentage basis?
- The NFL will no longer operate on a FREE ENTERPRISE BASIS but according to the MANDATES of SOCIAL JUSTICE where the HISTORICALLY DISADVANTAGED are now seen as COMPENSATORILY MORE EQUAL?
My own preference is that we not forget that it’s COMPETITION not COMPENSATION that is the most DYNAMIC ELEMENT in our system.
If it’s proven in a court of law that Flores indeed suffered injury as a result of ACTUAL DISCRIMINATION, then he should be compensated.
But if this is just part of a larger push towards not merely EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY but rather EQUALITY OF OUTCOME – i.e. so-called SOCIAL JUSTICE EQUITY – then THAT CONCERNS ME.
And, unfortunately, given Flores's OWN COMMENTS, that’s what I’m afraid he's after – and in a BROADER SOCIETAL SENSE.
But THAT I don’t accept. Count me IN for MERIT but OUT for QUOTAS.
WE all deserve a chance to COMPETE, but we all don’t deserve to WIN.
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Gag. The witch-hunt is the real concern. As Niemoller once wrote, “and then there was no one left to speak for me.”
Let me ask, what is your opinion on the transgender swimmer at Penn that went from ranked #400 in mens to ranked #1 in women? Now breaking ever female record ever set. Making a mockery of womens sports. He/she is now destroying women's swimming with his humongous shoulders and frame, gigantic legs, someone that got to experience male puberty, enormous reach. Are you a feminist or a transgender hero? What a complication liberals such as yourself must face in this issue. A war from within. Hero for women or hero for trans? Sounds like cannibalism. Civil war. Good luck. Glad I’m just a down to earth normal guy that likes good coaches black or white.
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Posters here love to play the willful ignorance & false equivilency cards with nonsense about white corners or Owners just want the "best" guy because to admit that racism still plays a factor in our society blows up their mythological worldview.
Just take a look at what happened in this years election & the punishment handed down to violators.
At least 4 white men got caught committing voter fraud by sending in dead releatives absentee ballots, the harshest sentence was 3 DAYS in prison
A black women who had a certified letter from her probation officer that she had completed her time and was told by the board of elections she could vote gets 5 YEARS in prison. There is another black women serving a similar 5 year sentence in Texas for a similar mistake. Yet these posters will see it as isolated & "Wokeness" run amuck by me for pointing out the glaring double standard.
Just take a look at what happened in this years election & the punishment handed down to violators.
At least 4 white men got caught committing voter fraud by sending in dead releatives absentee ballots, the harshest sentence was 3 DAYS in prison
A black women who had a certified letter from her probation officer that she had completed her time and was told by the board of elections she could vote gets 5 YEARS in prison. There is another black women serving a similar 5 year sentence in Texas for a similar mistake. Yet these posters will see it as isolated & "Wokeness" run amuck by me for pointing out the glaring double standard.
It’s a fact that black corners are better than white corners. White people suck at corner and are not as good as black people. Is that racist? Or is there a systemic problem where white kids are stereotyped to not be good corners so they’re not afforded the opportunity by a society that sees them as less? You pick!?
Would you identify the racist owners you cited above, I’m anxious to see the list.
Thanks
How is it not racist to willingly accept that black people are better athletes, thus openly accepting that 70% of the NFL is dominated by black athletes, yet not openly accept that there are more talented white coaches in the coaching pool? Who’s the racist?
That’s absolutely NOT true !
Alabama already had a black player BEFORE they played USC.
That story is a fabrication !
You didn’t point out a systemic double standard, you merely cited several unrelated isolated incidents with differing outcomes in different jurisdictions
That’s how media clouds minds. It rids the mind of common sense. An educated mind looks deeply at both sides and comes out with common sense. Something severely lacking these days. Is there inequality? Of course there is. Is it because America is some racist hole like it was in the 60’s? No. It’s because of what was a horribly racist nation that enslaved and and then disenfranchised black people for 100 years thereafter. Do we still see the after effects? Of course. It’s not easy to start behind so far and catchup. Are there less black coaches because they’re not as talented? I do not believe that at all. Are there less because they have less interest? Perhaps because they are in the NFL instead of coaching? I don’t know, but it should be considered. It would be uneducated to argue otherwise. Should things be done to address inequality? Of course. Should we do that by assuming everyone is racist? Calling out every black fire as racist? Assuming this case is racism? Absolutely not. There’s a better way to address it. A witch hunt is not it.
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At one time I'd agree with you.
Let's be honest...you never know personal feelings inside someone's brain and soul. Could there be some that use the Rooney Rule as a formality? Absolutely and why not. People don't like being told what to do. Some might not just to spite the rule.
All that said the NFL is a business. For the most part they're going to hire the absolute best possible candidates to win. Schooling is over. It's business time. If someone feels a black coach will make a difference present day...most will certainly give a fair consideration. Again, it's a business.
I say again not every single owner isn't biased out there...you certainly would have some and you can't prove it.
Today...too much at stake to just have tunnel vision.
I do not fundamentally disagree with anything you said. I, too, believe the laws of our country should ensure and protect equal opportunities, not equal outcomes. In a perfect world, where one gets in life should rest on the smarts, hard work and talent of the individual. But of course we do not live in a perfect world, and there are many who are handed opportunity by virtue of their social standing, family connections, the school they attended, and in some cases--unfortunately--their race. Most people accept those things as the simple facts of life, and just move on with their business. But a few, like MLK, take a principled stand and try to effect societal change. And then, sadly, are those that play the race card not because they are genuinely aggrieved, but because they want to make a fast buck off the legal system.
I do not know Brian Flores, and do not have any insight as to what motivated him to file this lawsuit, but my read on things is that what you wrote in the last sentence of your post goes to the very heart of the issue. And that is this: Flores believes--rightly or wrongly--that, as a black American man, he has been denied an EQUAL opportunity to compete with other white coaches in his chosen profession. Based on the numbers of black head coaches and coordinators in the NFL, he believes the cards have been stacked against him, and that things will remain that way unless change is forced upon the NFL. Will he be able to prove his claims? That will be a tall order, but based on the statistical data presented in his complaint, I would say that his disparate impact claim could possibly have some legs to it. The intentional discrimination claim would seem to be a reach based on the information that is currently available, but who knows what kind of smoking guns might turn up when discovery of documents and emails starts to take place.
It seems clear that Brian Flores has purposefully chosen to burn bridges with this lawsuit. Hard to believe he will ever work again in the NFL, but I suppose stranger things have happened.
Stay tuned.
That's not true.
There have been many upon many coaches in all major pro sports to get the pink slip after having a "decent year" or "decent finish"
We have no idea how well he worked with others including management.
Perhaps he's toxic. Can you say a black coach is toxic for the environment without being a racist?
You certainly can call a white coach such...
Just saying.
You're making a DISTINCTION too few wish to make. It's painstaking and removes the dopamine hit of being ALL-OUT PARTISAN.
Each extreme has now decided that looking at things on a CASE SPECIFIC BASIS is tantamount to failing its tribe's PURITY TEST.
The extreme Right wants government by CHARISMATIC MANDATE, while the extreme Left wants INSTANT SOCIAL JUSTICE and ECONMIC EQUALITY.
Ultimately, it's about POWER, for which IDEOLOGY is merely a starting point that quickly turns into a MASK.
We'll see where this goes. And THAT will tell us a lot about where POWER resides and doesn't.
I just passed on the most qualified candidate out of a large pool of people i was interviewing for a role. Why, because they were not a cultural fit with the company.
SO you want a blanket quota in the nfl "if you win x games you can't be fired, if you win less than x games ok, fair game" Nothing else matters?
This.
There are still tons of racist people that are from the older generation, hell I've seen it. Times were different when they grew up and many still haven't adjusted.
Why are people pretending that it's not possible that owners from that generation are racist? Or have racist tendencies. Didn't an NBA owner get fired for racist comments just a few years ago?
It's clear that some people will put their hands over their eyes no matter what.
She was a frichan felon, it had nothing to do with race. It was her felony that caused her to get a longer term.
Just pathetic
.
That’s how the media twists it to fit the narrative. Happens both liberals and conservatives. CNN is downright disgusting. While I don’t send much time on FoxNews, I assume they’re biased too.
woah woah woah, you don't get to play this card stating that people are pretending it's NOT POSSIBLE owners are racist. You've been on here stating that owners are racist without any evidence, facts or proofs. You don't get to be some holier than thou person now.
Not one person has said it's not possible there's racism in the nfl, people just aren't jumping to the conclusion that the cause of every black persons getting fired or not being successful is racism like you claim. Actually there's wayyyyyyyyy more evidence and facts to prove otherwise.
The way you're acting is a huge reason why there's such a divide. Some people assume people are good until proven otherwise, you assume the worst and no proof can deter you otherwise.
Lol okay, and people like you won't believe racism exists until the owners come out and hold a press conference admitting it.
News flash, they aren't going to. Again, I'm not saying they're racist, just that this situation stinks especially if the accusations get proven true.
Why didn’t Raulduke007 mention that very material fact ?
Because it didn’t support his narrative
I'm fine with all of that as well. And you stated it clearly and precisely.
The question remains though -- just how many black coaches in the NFL should there be? And how should it be decided?
While I don't oppose SOCIAL ENGINEERING unilaterally, I don't like to see it used as a BLUNT INSTRUMENT -- which is what I see happening now as respects the current MORE ACRIMONIOUS UPTICK in RACE ISSUES.
Are we a society based on the primacy of the individual or one that prioritizes the collective good? And since we're not a European social democracy, it's difficult to achieve both in one package.
My sense though is that in our system, priority must be given to treating things on a CASE SPECIFIC BASIS. Which to me means that if Flores was discriminated against, he DESERVES JUSTICE. But then, that doesn't also mean that we have to TRANSFORM THE NFL TOTALLY so as to be more to Flores's liking. His preferences aren't everyone's.
As you point out, the necessary laws are in place to address any ILLEGAL imbalances. And whoever needs to avail themselves of those laws can and should. But once we start relying on PERCEIVED SOCIAL EQUITY, as opposed to ACTUAL LAW in settling DISPUTES, that's not a good day for the kind of STRICT RULE OF LAW society we claim to be.
Merit should govern in these matters. If Flores deserves to be an NFL head coach, he shouldn't be dismissed simply because he's black. Just as super-qualified Asian kids shouldn't be denied admission to elite colleges simply because they're not "mainstream" enough and rattle prevailing social-justice norms meant to advantage OTHER groups.
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They spring from a TOTALITARIAN impulse.
The need for the ORTHODOX to rid themselves of HERETICS.
The founder of the team was accused of claims involving sexual harassment as well as racism. Richardson sold the team in 2017 as a result of the allegations. ... As the team's owner, Jerry Richardson, made his rounds on the way to his spacious office, he would ask women to turn around so he could admire their backsides.Jul 18, 2020
If the Dolphins owner was truly a racist, Florez would never have been hired to begin with
Literally said her probation officer wrote a certified letter that she had completed her probation. She presented it to the election board & they admitted that it was their mistake that they registered her to vote. Anything else sport?
Not sure you know what the difference is between sexual harassment and racism
