OT: Brian Flores Discrimination Lawsuit vs. NFL, et al.

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Brian Flores lawsuit against the NFL for racial discrimination in its hiring practices makes for some interesting reading. Here it is in the event you want to read it:

https://www.wigdorlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Complaint-against-National-Football-League-et-al-Filed.pdf

There are some pretty incendiary allegations made, and some of the statistics quoted in the complaint are pretty damning of the NFL. Interesting that some of the key evidence supporting Flores' claims is a mistake that Bill Belichick made in texting Brian Flores congratulating him for landing the NYG HC job, when in fact Belichick apparently intended to text Brian Daboll. The Belichick text to Flores was sent 3 days before Flores interviewed for the NYG position, suggesting that Flores' interview was merely a pretextual attempt to comply with the Rooney Rule if the NYG ownership already knew Daboll was going to be selected for the HC position.

Jon Gruden is raked over the coals pretty well in the complaint, which, given the content of some of the emails he apparently sent to Bruce Allen of the WFT, is probably well deserved. (This is probably a nit, but I find it interesting that the complaint misspells Gruden's first name, calling him "John" instead of "Jon." If you are going to rip someone apart in a legal document, you probably should at least spell his name correctly.) So is Preston Marshall, the original owner of the Washington Redskins. I was unaware of his bigoted and racist views.

If Flores' complaint survives the motions to dismiss I expect will be filed by the defendants, he will probably be able to obtain discovery a treasure trove of internal documents from the Miami Dolphins, NYG, and Denver Broncos. You can be sure those teams will not turn over those documents without a pitched legal battle.

This will be an interesting legal battle. By filing this lawsuit Flores has probably made himself permanently unhireable, but that remains to be seen. I believe Flores has been interviewed for the NO Saints HC position following Sean Payton's unexpected retirement, though from what I have read the Saints current DC, Dennis Allen, is considered the front runner.

 

[88ND]

I read that earlier this morning.

Ridiculous horseshit. When in doubt use the race card.

WTFE

 

[echowaker]

If the allegations of offering monetary incentives to lose games proves to be true the NFL should indefinitely suspend Ross and take over the Miami Dolphin franchise.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I read that earlier this morning.

Ridiculous horseshit. When in doubt use the race card.

WTFE

You can dismiss it out of hand, but I am pretty sure the NFL is taking this very seriously. This lawsuit could have some significant repercussions for the NFL, and also for the 3 teams individually named. Aside from the discrimination charges, the tanking allegations against Stephen Ross, the owner of the Dolphins, are pretty serious. Though we know some MLB teams were pretty clearly tanking in order to get higher draft picks, so maybe that is what we should expect these days of professional sports? If so, that is pretty sad.

 

[88ND]

You can dismiss it out of hand, but I am pretty sure the NFL is taking this very seriously. This lawsuit could have some significant repercussions for the NFL, and also for the 3 teams individually named. Aside from the discrimination charges, the tanking allegations against Stephen Ross, the owner of the Dolphins, are pretty serious. Though we know some MLB teams were pretty clearly tanking in order to get higher draft picks, so maybe that is what we should expect these days of professional sports? If so, that is pretty sad.

Sadly it's the day we are in.

Coaches jumping ship....
Players sitting out....
The Star Trek portal....
Commitment? Commitment to what?
This has become "me first check your pride at the door" world.
It's utter bullshit.

Pride, Commitment...

Do they really mean anything today?

Sadly they don't mean a god damn thing anymore.

 

[melstew]

There is discrimination in the US, and in the NFL. We need to intelligently address it. But this guy pleads facts suggesting he was fired for not taking a dive. That is just illegal deuchbagery not discrimination. He also suggests that forced interviews felt like forced interviews. I also think the issue has to be finding ways to hire more black coaches--not finding ways to "not fire" them (as the Atlantic seeks). The former creates opportunity, the latter actually makes black coaches less desirable candidates (which has the exact opposite of its intended effect).

 

[raulduke_007]

Sadly it's the day we are in.

Coaches jumping ship....
Players sitting out....
The Star Trek portal....
Commitment? Commitment to what?
This has become "me first check your pride at the door" world.
It's utter bullshit.

Pride, Commitment...

Do they really mean anything today?

Sadly they don't mean a god damn thing anymore.

So if you showed up for an interview & the company executives showed up over an hour late & hung over you wouldnt feel like your interview was a sham?
Then you're getting ready for another job interview but you were mistakenly informed that they already picked someone else before you even got a chance that wouldnt make you feel the system is rigged.
When you do an opportunity to coach your owner offers you money to lose games. Then the owner tries to break the tampering rules risking your career & when you show integrety now youre the problem.
Miami was a horrible franchise for 2 decades & Flores turned them around to go 10-6 & 9-8 but you get fired because you didnt play ball.
Then look at Caldwell he takes Indy to the Superbowl & never missed the playoffs. Manning get hurt & you get fired after 1 losing season.
Then you turn around Det which is virtual impossible to do & take them to 2 playoffs app. then you go 9-7 and you're fired and hasnt got a sniff at another job. Meanwhile Josh McDaniel flames out in Denver, then takes a job with Indy only to cancel on them but still gets a job with the Raiders.
David Culley was put in an impossible situation yet somehow wins 4 games in 1st year & gets fired. Zack Taylor had 2 straight season where he is like 5-27 & got to keep his job. Dan Cambell wins 3 games keeps his job.
GTFO of here that that the system isnt rigged.

 

[melstew]

RainDuke--Great Post, but remember:
Violation of Rooney Rule not actionable discrimination.
Firing for not cheating not discrimination
Doug Peterson a lot like Caldwell but worse.
McDaniel reproved himself after flame out.
Detroit not impossible to turnaround--NFL is the everybody has a chance league.
We don't know what Belichik was told 3 days in advance--maybe he was told Flores was interviewing, probably not, but let's see.
I think discrimination exists and I hope these Rooney violators lose draft picks and jobs. Same for the Dolphin guy. But people that see discrimination everywhere sometimes take focus from where it really occurs.
We can do this humanity--its just skin pigment.

 

[BGI User 1596]

RainDuke--Great Post, but remember:
Violation of Rooney Rule not actionable discrimination.
Firing for not cheating not discrimination
Doug Peterson a lot like Caldwell but worse.
McDaniel reproved himself after flame out.
Detroit not impossible to turnaround--NFL is the everybody has a chance league.
We don't know what Belichik was told 3 days in advance--maybe he was told Flores was interviewing, probably not, but let's see.
I think discrimination exists and I hope these Rooney violators lose draft picks and jobs. Same for the Dolphin guy. But people that see discrimination everywhere sometimes take focus from where it really occurs.
We can do this humanity--its just skin pigment.

Karen Kaepernick victim hood syndrome!

 

[TDIrish27]

RainDuke--Great Post, but remember:
Violation of Rooney Rule not actionable discrimination.
Firing for not cheating not discrimination
Doug Peterson a lot like Caldwell but worse.
McDaniel reproved himself after flame out.
Detroit not impossible to turnaround--NFL is the everybody has a chance league.
We don't know what Belichik was told 3 days in advance--maybe he was told Flores was interviewing, probably not, but let's see.
I think discrimination exists and I hope these Rooney violators lose draft picks and jobs. Same for the Dolphin guy. But people that see discrimination everywhere sometimes take focus from where it really occurs.
We can do this humanity--its just skin pigment.

Agreed

But I would like to see him get a few million from Old Man Mara.

 

[88ND]

So if you showed up for an interview & the company executives showed up over an hour late & hung over you wouldnt feel like your interview was a sham?
Then you're getting ready for another job interview but you were mistakenly informed that they already picked someone else before you even got a chance that wouldnt make you feel the system is rigged.
When you do an opportunity to coach your owner offers you money to lose games. Then the owner tries to break the tampering rules risking your career & when you show integrety now youre the problem.
Miami was a horrible franchise for 2 decades & Flores turned them around to go 10-6 & 9-8 but you get fired because you didnt play ball.
Then look at Caldwell he takes Indy to the Superbowl & never missed the playoffs. Manning get hurt & you get fired after 1 losing season.
Then you turn around Det which is virtual impossible to do & take them to 2 playoffs app. then you go 9-7 and you're fired and hasnt got a sniff at another job. Meanwhile Josh McDaniel flames out in Denver, then takes a job with Indy only to cancel on them but still gets a job with the Raiders.
David Culley was put in an impossible situation yet somehow wins 4 games in 1st year & gets fired. Zack Taylor had 2 straight season where he is like 5-27 & got to keep his job. Dan Cambell wins 3 games keeps his job.
GTFO of here that that the system isnt rigged.

And you're going on how many sides of this story.
You need to Get ****ing reading the entire story. The Broncos have clearly stated they've documented proof of the interview, time it start, duration, minutes.. etc

 

[Potbelly407]

Agreed

But I would like to see him get a few million from Old Man Mara.

i have no idea what transpired between Flores and Dolphins management, but Flores going after the Giants is just dumb. Once Schoen was hired by the Giants as Gm, EVERYONE knew Daboll was the HEAVY favorite for the job, and why not? Hiring a GM then hiring someone that GM has a previous working relationship with is a good thing for the Giants.

 

[Granite45]

i have no idea what transpired between Flores and Dolphins management, but Flores going after the Giants is just dumb. Once Schoen was hired by the Giants as Gm, EVERYONE knew Daboll was the HEAVY favorite for the job, and why not? Hiring a GM then hiring someone that GM has a previous working relationship with is a good thing for the Giants.

Just cronyism, hardly an appropriate method for choosing the most qualified candidate.

 

[Patrirish]

If the allegations of offering monetary incentives to lose games proves to be true the NFL should indefinitely suspend Ross and take over the Miami Dolphin franchise.

If true, the NFL will strip him of the franchise.

There are a number of prospective owners waiting in the wings.

it’s really hard to believe because Steve Ross is a smart, seasoned NYC business guy and that would be one of the most egregious acts that the NFL has ever encountered.

it’s really a stunning allegation.

 

[Irishjohn68]

I read that earlier this morning.

Ridiculous horseshit. When in doubt use the race card.

WTFE

I don’t know that this is “ridiculous horseshit.” Just my opinion, I know we are not supposed to have options or share them but since you did.

 

[BGI User 756]

In the spirit of total equality, there should be a system for hiring more white NBA players…right? USA is 13% AA, yet they take up the majority of the jobs …it’s racist…right?

Oh wait…telling me the current players are the best for the job?! Now that makes sense…so why doesn’t that apply to coaches?

maybe some white players should start suing? Flores lawsuit is BS

 

[4-4-3]

Brian Flores lawsuit against the NFL for racial discrimination in its hiring practices makes for some interesting reading. Here it is in the event you want to read it:

https://www.wigdorlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Complaint-against-National-Football-League-et-al-Filed.pdf

There are some pretty incendiary allegations made, and some of the statistics quoted in the complaint are pretty damning of the NFL. Interesting that some of the key evidence supporting Flores' claims is a mistake that Bill Belichick made in texting Brian Flores congratulating him for landing the NYG HC job, when in fact Belichick apparently intended to text Brian Daboll. The Belichick text to Flores was sent 3 days before Flores interviewed for the NYG position, suggesting that Flores' interview was merely a pretextual attempt to comply with the Rooney Rule if the NYG ownership already knew Daboll was going to be selected for the HC position.

Jon Gruden is raked over the coals pretty well in the complaint, which, given the content of some of the emails he apparently sent to Bruce Allen of the WFT, is probably well deserved. (This is probably a nit, but I find it interesting that the complaint misspells Gruden's first name, calling him "John" instead of "Jon." If you are going to rip someone apart in a legal document, you probably should at least spell his name correctly.) So is Preston Marshall, the original owner of the Washington Redskins. I was unaware of his bigoted and racist views.

If Flores' complaint survives the motions to dismiss I expect will be filed by the defendants, he will probably be able to obtain discovery a treasure trove of internal documents from the Miami Dolphins, NYG, and Denver Broncos. You can be sure those teams will not turn over those documents without a pitched legal battle.

This will be an interesting legal battle. By filing this lawsuit Flores has probably made himself permanently unhireable, but that remains to be seen. I believe Flores has been interviewed for the NO Saints HC position following Sean Payton's unexpected retirement, though from what I have read the Saints current DC, Dennis Allen, is considered the front runner.

Not only might he blackball himself, he may also, if he loses, GO BROKE. His resources vs. the NFL's? No contest. Unless some org steps forward to fund him.

Question is -- social justice narratives aside -- WERE ANY ACTUAL LAWS BROKEN? That's all this should be about.

Are we a society of MERIT or QUOTAS?

Particularly, AS PER EXISTING LAW.

And that's SOME PLANTATION he accuses THE NFL AS RUNNING where the "field hands" are pulling in 6 and 7 figures. Besides, no one is FORCING THEM TO PLAY PRO FOOTBALL. Valuing my brain as I do, I wouldn't do it for a KING'S RANSOM. Two years in college and a spinal injury were PLENTY for me.

But as for the alleged payment offers to TANK games, that's on the DOLPHINS. And if there's criminality in that, it should be PROSECUTED. That's extremely dirty pool.

 

[4-4-3]

RainDuke--Great Post, but remember:
Violation of Rooney Rule not actionable discrimination.
Firing for not cheating not discrimination
Doug Peterson a lot like Caldwell but worse.
McDaniel reproved himself after flame out.
Detroit not impossible to turnaround--NFL is the everybody has a chance league.
We don't know what Belichik was told 3 days in advance--maybe he was told Flores was interviewing, probably not, but let's see.
I think discrimination exists and I hope these Rooney violators lose draft picks and jobs. Same for the Dolphin guy. But people that see discrimination everywhere sometimes take focus from where it really occurs.
We can do this humanity--its just skin pigment.

Does anyone know the APPLICABLE LAW?

What LAW or LAWS were broken?

What constitutes DISCRIMINATION in hiring as per a specific person? How does a person PROVE IT? And then who does he see as having discriminated against him? The Dolphins? The Giants? The Broncos? The entire league? Where does any of this INTERSECT with the LAW?

Is this Mr. Smith Goes to Washington or does he have an ACTIONABLE CASE?

I'm not a lawyer.

Who here is?

 

[Get Nasty]

Unless Flores has proof, he is crushing the future of African American coaches in the nfl.
Flores is a good coach and would have landed a good job soon, instead he chose lawsuit.
the Rooney rule is also BS and lessons peoples abilities.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Does anyone know the APPLICABLE LAW?

What LAW or LAWS were broken?

What constitutes DISCRIMINATION in hiring as per a specific person? How does a person PROVE IT? And then who does he see as having discriminated against him? The Dolphins? The Giants? The Broncos? The entire league? Where does any of this INTERSECT with the LAW?

Is this Mr. Smith Goes to Washington or does he have an ACTIONABLE CASE?

I'm not a lawyer.

Who here is?

I don't follow this story at all but I call BS. Racism in the NFL? Please. The NFL cares about 1 thing. Money. Race has nothing to do with money.

The debate will never end until we reach a point at least where there is complete proportionality in coaching, GM's, etc. When there are more black coaches than white coaches as there are with players and when there are more GM's and owners that are black than there are white, then it may stop. But I doubt it will stop there either.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Dude is spot on

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Does anyone know the APPLICABLE LAW?

What LAW or LAWS were broken?

What constitutes DISCRIMINATION in hiring as per a specific person? How does a person PROVE IT? And then who does he see as having discriminated against him? The Dolphins? The Giants? The Broncos? The entire league? Where does any of this INTERSECT with the LAW?

Is this Mr. Smith Goes to Washington or does he have an ACTIONABLE CASE?

I'm not a lawyer.

Who here is?

Flores' lawsuit complains that the NFL and the 3 named teams (the Dolphins, NYG and Broncos) violated federal and state civil rights laws. I am not familiar with the state laws he is suing under, and I am not an employment or civil rights attorney, but i have passing familiarity with the federal law he has brought suit under, the Civil Rights Act of 1866, and specifically, section 1981 of that statute. Section 1981 makes it unlawful for a non-government party to discriminate in the making and enforcement of a contract. (Generally speaking, the Civil Right Act of 1866, passed in the wake of the Civil War, was intended to protect the civil rights of the former slaves.)

I understand--but again, I don't profess to be an expert on the specific laws involved--that Flores will have to prove intentional discrimination to prevail on his section 1981 claim. That will be a high burden, but not an impossible one. If his complaint can survive a motion to dismiss by one or more of the defendants, he will be entitled to pursue legal discovery on his claims, and that is where it will begin to get very messy for the defendants, because they are likely going to have to produce all kinds of documents that Flores will seek.

Flores' complaint also states he will pursue a claim under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Before he can do that, however, he first has to pursue his administrative remedies through the EEOC. Title VII affords broader relief than section 1981, i.e., it not only proscribes intentional discrimination, it makes disparate impact discrimination illegal as well. Disparate impact discrimination occurs when a hiring practice that is neutral on its face is employed in a way that has a disparate impact on a protected class of people. Race is a protected class, so Flores will have no trouble satisfying that element of the law.

Barring the discovery of some incredibly stupid or foolish emails among the management and owners of the 3 teams, or the NFL itself, the intentional discrimination claim will likely be a difficult one for Flores to prevail on. But I always find it astonishing how some very smart people can say some very dumb things in emails, so I don't rule it out. As I came to learn, the "e" in email should stand for evidence.

The disparate impact claim will be more troublesome for the NFL and the 3 teams, because that is where the various statistics quoted throughout the complaint will likely come into play. For example, the so-called Rooney Rule is supposed to insure more opportunities for minorities to be hired for head coach and coordinator positions. Flores will likely argue that the actual hiring statistics show that the Rooney Rule is merely given lip service by the NFL teams. That will likely be the heart of his claims against the Broncos and the NYG; and that is why the Belichick texts messages are so troublesome for the NYG. That is, if Belichick knew 3 days before Flores was interviewed by the Giants that the Giants' HC position was already going to Brian Daboll, doesn't that suggest the scheduled interview with Flores was merely a pretext that was intended to show compliance with the Rooney Rule? Obviously the Giants will argue otherwise, but that is going to be interesting for them, especially if Flores is able to obtain discovery of internal front office documents.

I don't know enough about this area of the law to intelligently predict what will happen with Flores' lawsuit, but I know enough about litigation to say that this is going to possibly get very ugly for the defendants. Very frequently in these kinds of situations the defendants will seek a quick and confidential settlement, but Flores and his lawyers seem pretty determined--at least right now, but money often has a funny way of compromising people's principles--to pursue this to a public outcome. In any event, I certainly do not see this as case of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.

 

[SIhoosier26]

I don't follow this story at all but I call BS. Racism in the NFL? Please. The NFL cares about 1 thing. Money. Race has nothing to do with money.

The debate will never end until we reach a point at least where there is complete proportionality in coaching, GM's, etc. When there are more black coaches than white coaches as there are with players and when there are more GM's and owners that are black than there are white, then it may stop. But I doubt it will stop there either.

Lol a lot of ignorance in this post but again, not surprising considering the sorce.

 

[Zorich 88]

I read that earlier this morning.

Ridiculous horseshit. When in doubt use the race card.

WTFE

It would be very hard to prove that Miami fired him because he is Black and the Giants did not hire him because he was Black. However, I do believe Black coaches must perform at a higher level than their White counterparts. You cannot be just good and coach in the NFL of you are Black. You have to be great.

You have 32 teams in the NFL and only 1 Black HC. That’s a problem. No way can anyone say there are not any qualified Black coaches.

There was zero reason for Miami to fire Flores. They won their last 8/9 games. Beating the Patriots the last game of the year. A game New England needed to win.

 

[Get Nasty]

Lol a lot of ignorance in this post but again, not surprising considering the sorce.

Not saying I agree, but what is ignorant??? …. You have proof or factual knowledge of racism throughout the nfl currently? The league with more than 2x African Americans than white players. I’m completely fine with that, let the best players play, same with coaches, let the best coaches coach. Shouldn’t white people be complaining about nfl not drafting enough white players?

 

[SIhoosier26]

Not saying I agree, but what is ignorant??? …. You have proof or factual knowledge of racism throughout the nfl currently? The league with more than 2x African Americans than white players. I’m completely fine with that, let the best players play, same with coaches, let the best coaches coach.

Proof of racism? What about the fact that in a league of 70+% black players there is ONE black head coach? ONE. That one head coach by the way is a shoe in hall of Famer that has never had a losing season.

Brian Flores got fired after winning 7 of his last 8 games and had back to back winning seasons at a franchise that hadn't done that in two decades. He won those games with a bottom five quarterback and with the worst o line in the NFL. He did the unthinkable in a league that is dominated by offense and quarterback play.

Not all racism is some white dude yelling out racial slurs in public. Sometimes it takes some common sense and reading the tea leaves. Or the fact he had a token interview with the Giants (the Rooney Rule) days after they had already hired their white head coach. At the very least that stinks of racism.

Throw in the Dolphins owner offering to pay Brian to sacrifice his own career and lose games on purpose before using him as a scapegoat for their mistake of drafting Tua over Justin Herbert again stinks of racism.

Again, I'm not saying racism 100% is the reason for this but for an outsider using common sense it sure as hell looks like it. Brian got absolutely screwed in all of this and I hope he gets another opportunity. Not because he's black, but because he's proven to be a damn good coach and he deserves it.

 

[Patrirish]

Does anyone know the APPLICABLE LAW?

What LAW or LAWS were broken?

What constitutes DISCRIMINATION in hiring as per a specific person? How does a person PROVE IT? And then who does he see as having discriminated against him? The Dolphins? The Giants? The Broncos? The entire league? Where does any of this INTERSECT with the LAW?

Is this Mr. Smith Goes to Washington or does he have an ACTIONABLE CASE?

I'm not a lawyer.

Who here is?

I’m not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Your points are all valid !

 

[TDIrish27]

Proof of racism? What about the fact that in a league of 70+% black players there is ONE black head coach? ONE. That one head coach by the way is a shoe in hall of Famer that has never had a losing season.

Brian Flores got fired after winning 7 of his last 8 games and had back to back winning seasons at a franchise that hadn't done that in two decades. He won those games with a bottom five quarterback and with the worst o line in the NFL. He did the unthinkable in a league that is dominated by offense and quarterback play.

Not all racism is some white dude yelling out racial slurs in public. Sometimes it takes some common sense and reading the tea leaves. Or the fact he had a token interview with the Giants (the Rooney Rule) days after they had already hired their white head coach. At the very least that stinks of racism.

Throw in the Dolphins owner offering to pay Brian to sacrifice his own career and lose games on purpose before using him as a scapegoat for their mistake of drafting Tua over Justin Herbert again stinks of racism.

Again, I'm not saying racism 100% is the reason for this but for an outsider using common sense it sure as hell looks like it. Brian got absolutely screwed in all of this and I hope he gets another opportunity. Not because he's black, but because he's proven to be a damn good coach and he deserves it.

Absolutely

 

[Patrirish]

Proof of racism? What about the fact that in a league of 70+% black players there is ONE black head coach? ONE. That one head coach by the way is a shoe in hall of Famer that has never had a losing season.

Brian Flores got fired after winning 7 of his last 8 games and had back to back winning seasons at a franchise that hadn't done that in two decades. He won those games with a bottom five quarterback and with the worst o line in the NFL. He did the unthinkable in a league that is dominated by offense and quarterback play.

Not all racism is some white dude yelling out racial slurs in public. Sometimes it takes some common sense and reading the tea leaves. Or the fact he had a token interview with the Giants (the Rooney Rule) days after they had already hired their white head coach. At the very least that stinks of racism.

Throw in the Dolphins owner offering to pay Brian to sacrifice his own career and lose games on purpose before using him as a scapegoat for their mistake of drafting Tua over Justin Herbert again stinks of racism.

Again, I'm not saying racism 100% is the reason for this but for an outsider using common sense it sure as hell looks like it. Brian got absolutely screwed in all of this and I hope he gets another opportunity. Not because he's black, but because he's proven to be a damn good coach and he deserves it.

YOU, and none of us, know the facts of the case !

So don’t go drawing conclusions based upon allegations.

Let’s wait until the FACTS are presented, then offer our opinions.

Didnt the Duke rape case teach us anything ?

 

[Patrirish]

It would be very hard to prove that Miami fired him because he is Black and the Giants did not hire him because he was Black. However, I do believe Black coaches must perform at a higher level than their White counterparts. You cannot be just good and coach in the NFL of you are Black. You have to be great.

You have 32 teams in the NFL and only 1 Black HC. That’s a problem. No way can anyone say there are not any qualified Black coaches.

There was zero reason for Miami to fire Flores. They won their last 8/9 games. Beating the Patriots the last game of the year. A game New England needed to win.

All pretty much irrelevant.

Let’s wait until ALL of the FACTS are presented before drawing conclusions.

In another thread I indicated that there are often frictions between owners and coaches and there have also been other black coaches ….. and white coaches who get fired for various reasons.

I don’t know the facts and am content to reserve judgement until ALL of the FACTS are presented.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

It would be very hard to prove that Miami fired him because he is Black and the Giants did not hire him because he was Black. However, I do believe Black coaches must perform at a higher level than their White counterparts. You cannot be just good and coach in the NFL of you are Black. You have to be great.

You have 32 teams in the NFL and only 1 Black HC. That’s a problem. No way can anyone say there are not any qualified Black coaches.

There was zero reason for Miami to fire Flores. They won their last 8/9 games. Beating the Patriots the last game of the year. A game New England needed to win.

As for why the Dolphins fired Flores, I don't follow them, nor have I followed what led to Flores' termination, but I expect Flores may have some difficulty proving he was fired due to his race when the Dolphins' GM, Chris Grier, is also a black man. But the tanking for pay allegations against the Dolphins' owner, Stephen Ross, seem pretty serious to me, and I suspect the NFL is going to have to look into those allegations even outside of the context of Flores' lawsuit.

The NYG situation looks a little troublesome to me in light of the Belichick text messages. On the other hand, I've read that the NYG GM has some prior history together with Daboll, and so that may be a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why Daboll was the hire. But the NYG are going to have some difficulty explaining the timing of the hire in light of the Belichick evidence.

I've read that Flores supposedly has a somewhat prickly personality, but his success on the field seems pretty undeniable. The fact that he got fired a year after he was in the conversation for the COY award seems a little hard to understand. Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick aren't warm and fuzzy guys, either, but their track records as head coaches lets us look past those things. Of course, they have won championships, and Brian Flores has not.

The statistics quoted in the complaint make you at least take pause and wonder about the NFL's minority hiring practices. The implicit suggestion in Flores' complaint that because 70% of the players in the league are black leads to the conclusion that a high percentage of the head coaches and coordinators should also be black doesn't logically follow to me, but conversely, having only 1 black head coach in the entire NFL is also hard to understand. I tend to agree with you that, whether or not it is an intentional practice, black coaches seem to be held to a higher standard. I grew up in an age where black players were thought not to be smart enough to play the QB position. That racist myth has been rightfully relegated to the dust bin of history.

Much of what has gone on in the NFL lies on doorstep of the team owners, and let's be honest, some of the NFL owners are just nasty human beings. The stuff going on right now with Daniel Snyder, while not race related, makes me think he could conceivably be forced out of the league by the other owners. And I didn't realize that Preston Marshall, the founder of the Washington Redskins, had such a history of bigotry and racism.

 

[Golson5]

Proof of racism? What about the fact that in a league of 70+% black players there is ONE black head coach? ONE. That one head coach by the way is a shoe in hall of Famer that has never had a losing season.

Brian Flores got fired after winning 7 of his last 8 games and had back to back winning seasons at a franchise that hadn't done that in two decades. He won those games with a bottom five quarterback and with the worst o line in the NFL. He did the unthinkable in a league that is dominated by offense and quarterback play.

Not all racism is some white dude yelling out racial slurs in public. Sometimes it takes some common sense and reading the tea leaves. Or the fact he had a token interview with the Giants (the Rooney Rule) days after they had already hired their white head coach. At the very least that stinks of racism.

Throw in the Dolphins owner offering to pay Brian to sacrifice his own career and lose games on purpose before using him as a scapegoat for their mistake of drafting Tua over Justin Herbert again stinks of racism.

Again, I'm not saying racism 100% is the reason for this but for an outsider using common sense it sure as hell looks like it. Brian got absolutely screwed in all of this and I hope he gets another opportunity. Not because he's black, but because he's proven to be a damn good coach and he deserves it.

If the Dolphins were indeed racist, they would have never hired Flores to begin with

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

If the Dolphins were indeed racist, they would have never hired Flores to begin with

Agree. And for that matter, why would a team that is okay with hiring 70% black players and black quarterbacks be labeled racist when hiring a white coach? That makes no sense. It's about winning, not race. I don't see it. You hire the guy that gives you the best chance to win. If that means a black coach, white cornerback, female kicker, so be it. If that means a Chinese woman to manage the team, so be it.

Is it racist that there are no white cornerbacks in the league? Should all NFL teams be required to hire at least 1 white corner?

 

[Get Nasty]

Proof of racism? What about the fact that in a league of 70+% black players there is ONE black head coach? ONE. That one head coach by the way is a shoe in hall of Famer that has never had a losing season.

Brian Flores got fired after winning 7 of his last 8 games and had back to back winning seasons at a franchise that hadn't done that in two decades. He won those games with a bottom five quarterback and with the worst o line in the NFL. He did the unthinkable in a league that is dominated by offense and quarterback play.

Not all racism is some white dude yelling out racial slurs in public. Sometimes it takes some common sense and reading the tea leaves. Or the fact he had a token interview with the Giants (the Rooney Rule) days after they had already hired their white head coach. At the very least that stinks of racism.

Throw in the Dolphins owner offering to pay Brian to sacrifice his own career and lose games on purpose before using him as a scapegoat for their mistake of drafting Tua over Justin Herbert again stinks of racism.

Again, I'm not saying racism 100% is the reason for this but for an outsider using common sense it sure as hell looks like it. Brian got absolutely screwed in all of this and I hope he gets another opportunity. Not because he's black, but because he's proven to be a damn good coach and he deserves it.

I love your argument. So the same guys hiring and paying all these African Americans millions to play all of a sudden are “because of racism” not hiring them as coaches. Makes a ton of sense!!!!

if every time something doesn’t go someone’s way a race card is brought up you’ll see even less hiring because of not wanting the backlash. It’s like Kap, no one wanted to deal with his antics, BS, and me me me attention he wanted.

 

[Zorich 88]

If the Dolphins were indeed racist, they would have never hired Flores to begin with

Not true. Racist owners always go after the best, they believe they can help them win a championship.

The issue is the Black coach is held to a higher standard of success.

There were plenty of owners in all sports that were racist but they still wanted the best of athletes.

Same is true for college sports. Once Alabama realized they could never beat USC teams that had Black athletes, all of a sudden they added Black players. Did those people stop being racist?

Flores won the last 8/9 games. No coach has ever been fired after doing that.

 

[Zorich 88]

Agree. And for that matter, why would a team that is okay with hiring 70% black players and black quarterbacks be labeled racist when hiring a white coach? That makes no sense. It's about winning, not race. I don't see it. You hire the guy that gives you the best chance to win. If that means a black coach, white cornerback, female kicker, so be it. If that means a Chinese woman to manage the team, so be it.

Is it racist that there are no white cornerbacks in the league? Should all NFL teams be required to hire at least 1 white corner?

I repeat


Not true. Racist owners always go after the best, they believe they can help them win a championship.

The issue is the Black coach is held to a higher standard of success.

There were plenty of owners in all sports that were racist but they still wanted the best of athletes.

Same is true for college sports. Once Alabama realized they could never beat USC teams that had Black athletes, all of a sudden they added Black players. Did those people stop being racist?

 

[Zorich 88]

Agree. And for that matter, why would a team that is okay with hiring 70% black players and black quarterbacks be labeled racist when hiring a white coach? That makes no sense. It's about winning, not race. I don't see it. You hire the guy that gives you the best chance to win. If that means a black coach, white cornerback, female kicker, so be it. If that means a Chinese woman to manage the team, so be it.

Is it racist that there are no white cornerbacks in the league? Should all NFL teams be required to hire at least 1 white corner?

Who is the best White CB in college today?

 

[Golson5]

Not true. Racist owners always go after the best, they believe they can help them win a championship.

The issue is the Black coach is held to a higher standard of success.

There were plenty of owners in all sports that were racist but they still wanted the best of athletes.

Same is true for college sports. Once Alabama realized they could never beat USC teams that had Black athletes, all of a sudden they added Black players. Did those people stop being racist?

Flores won the last 8/9 games. No coach has ever been fired after doing that.

LOL

 

[SIhoosier26]

If the Dolphins were indeed racist, they would have never hired Flores to begin with

I didn't call the Dolphins racist, did you read my post? The Dolphins did try to screw him but what about the Giants?

The texts are there and it proves his interview was nothing more than a token interview to check a box for the Rooney Rule. There's no denying the texts, they are there.

 

[Golson5]

Who is the best White CB in college today?

There are none because of racism, right?

Isnt that how this works