I'm sure that this has already been posted but just wanted to give my 2 cents. With the latest injury announcements at our wr corp, will we finally see our playmakers on the field? I certainly understand why Canteen, Finke, and Smith earned their opportunity by virtue of effort and attitude. There is no way however, that they are better playmakers than CJ, Stepherson, and Claypool. I am not %100 sold on Long's ability to get our best athletes in the right places. I am %100 that if the offense continues Kelly will step in. Believe me, our run game is phenominal, but I do not want to see BW running 20 times a game either. More Dexter please. IMO coming out Saturday night we should have Adams, CJ (slot), EQ, BW, Claypool, and Mack as our starting backfield/wr. Stepherson is apparently MIA or I would have him in there. Use some jet sweeps for CJ and start getting the ball in the air to save BW from too much punishment. Thx
Offensive offense
- Thread starter Mr. NotSoCreative
- Start date
I don't think anyone, including BW, want to see him rushing for 20 attempts but it's a part of our offense and it's main function was to create confusion for any play action passes which I thought would be where we could make hay against those teams selling out on the run. I'm not a WR coach but the route running and timing so far just haven't clicked. BW's lack of awareness to not only change protection at the line but to progress through his reads is a work in progress. Will the addition of more playing time for these players, who we consider to be more explosive, help our current struggles I'm not quite sure.
So Smith comes in for 10 days and outplays guys that were here all Spring ? According to Kelly "Claypool has to get on the field somewhere" and he cannot tell anyone if KS is suspended or not. All I know is that the WR coach came from ASU and so did Cam Smith .
Whatever happened to CJ Sanders? Maybe he can get us 3 yards on all of those 2 yard screens Wimbush has thrown to big receivers who lack the wiggle CJ offers.
Yes... he earned his spot. It isn't that difficult to understand.
BW saves himself from too much punishment by throwing off his back foot.
I love the enthusiasm but before we anoint them the 95 huskers with the rushing offense how about we show we can run against some tough defenses. So far we've faced one decent defense and ran for fifty seven yards collectively.
Again the play calling is 180 degrees of spot on. The weaker teams we run right at them....and could run east west. The better teams we play when we should run in the box we zone reed sweep them nearly every running play which always gets strung out for no gain.
BW is getting a better feel for the speed of the game and his running and cutting off blocks is getting way better. However for the strides he's making running the ball he's gotten no better throwing it.
Someone compared him to Rice. That's insane. Rice was productive against everyone and often out up his best numbers against the best competition.
BW against one good competitor did absolutely nothing.
Lastly it's become crazy and a little pathetic that we're starving so badly for a winner our optimism is so slanted and distorted. I'm guilty of it too.
We just all long for a much better time in Notre Dame football that we try tell ourselves things like BW is another Tony Rice or Dexter is as good as Reggie Brooks.
Yeah pretty bad I know.
He has ? What have you seen so far that impresses you from him ? His breakaway speed? nope. His ability to get open ? nope? ... yeah it's difficult to understand coach. Try his coach from ASU brought him along for the ride.
Yeah ... you nailed it. He is playing because they hired his WR coach from ASU.
. That is brilliant analysis.Wr coach tells BK Cam Smith would be a great addition to the WR corps . Great Senior leader etc. Had solid career at ASU. BK says bring him aboard. You don't think this WR wants nothing more then to see Smith play well? Heck we all do . I'm reading all August how great this guy is like everyone else. So no it doesn't take a brilliant analysis to realize that their is a relationship with this coach and Smith playing because the guy has been below average .Yeah ... you nailed it. He is playing because they hired his WR coach from ASU.
Of course he was involved with his coming to ND. Suggesting he is playing ahead of others because of that relationship is wrong and calls the position coach's integrity into question. I think you re way off.
You earn your spot on the practice field. It really is as simple as that. How else should it be ?
Well lets just say that if he is the best WR at that position then ND is in trouble. IF KS returns maybe we will see an explosive player Maybe the Freshmen ? Do the other WR's get 1st team reps? we don't see that. The coaches do. Lets see what happens sat night. I have no problem admitting I am wrong if Smith has a good game ( I don't mean blocking) I want to see the team do well and that includes Cam. Make a big play. the pass game needs that. If not then it should be time to look at someone else. Is that a fair assessment. ?
I don t think you re wrong in your opinion of Smith's play to date. I m just saying there are protocols in place when determining playing time. Practice film, written tests etc. Position coaches and coordinators make the call. I just thought it was unfair to somehow suggest the position coach was showing favoritism.
I think people are comparing him to Rice because Rice was not a prolific passer. In terms of Rice's production I think we sometimes remember more of the good than the bad. If I told you BW was going to put up the following numbers you would probably say he should be benched and the coach who played him in 23 games should be fired:
Rushes - 121 for 700 yards in 11 games with 9TDs
Passing - 70/138 (50.7%) 1176 yds; 8 TDs 7 INTs
Rushes - 174 for 884 yards in 12 games with 7 TDs
Passing - 68/137 (49.6%) 1122 yds 2 TDs 9 INTs
Those were Tony Rice's stats in the 1988 and 1989 seasons. Brandon Wimbush did something at ND last week which was incredible. Set the all time record for rushing yards by a QB and was a dragged left foot away from scoring more TDs by a single ND football player since 1905. Think about that for a second. And as for his number of rushes - he's 6'2" 225 lbs. He can take a hit. Run him 15-20 times per game and he could put up earth shattering numbers. With confidence in his part and fear by defenses the passing opportunities will open up. Give it some time but I really really like this kid.
Sometimes favoritism does occur in sports. It may be a result of good to great qualities that in this case Cam displayed during his time at ASU and there is nothing wrong with that. Keep in mind that this WR coach and Chip have a coaching relationship at ASU. Chip Long may have more confidence in Cam's knowledge of this offense then the other receiver's as well. I'm sure the guy worked hard to get the starting position but at some point other players have to get a look opposite ESB.
Stats are irrelevant in this case bevause you're talking completely different eras. Matter of fact it's not even in the same stratosphere.
Rice was a tremendous player. No no...a tremendous winner.
He was a great runner. Quicker than Wimbush. (not faster but quicker)
Ran the option well.
He was not a great passer whatsoever but he was an effective passer.
Records are being obliterated all across the land every week. Situational play is a huge reason. Example. Years prior if a team put up 40 points in a game most times they'd have backups in getting work for most of the final quarter.
Today...and this extends to the Clemson's and Bamas of the world 40 points might only mean you're winning but only ahead by one touchdown. So the starters keep racking up numbers bevause they have to keep playing bevause the game is close.
Moreover rules, schemes, emphasis on positional play etc etc...things are just different today so you can't really compare stats what so ever.
Having said all that SW is starting to get a nice feel for running the ball and cutting off his blockers.
He's starting to look like a runner who's a threat to pass more than a passer with a threat to run. I know that probably drives Kelly insane but who cares. If it works roll with it.
Lastly...i want the kid to be all world this or that....
But please hold off showering so much praise until he can put up even marginal numbers against some decent competition not just the door mats.
A stat that isn't really kept tracked of but so important...Rice did some of his greatest work against the toughest of competition.
That's very very important.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Winbush would probably do great too if he had all of the great players on ND IN 1988, 1989, AND 1990. Those were great teams !!
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Oh my...
Yes those were amazing days. It was fun.
When we played Miami in 1988 43 of the 44 starters that day had NFL time in one way or another.
The lone player who did not...Tony Rice.
My friend, I love Tony Rice and all that he did while at Notre Dame and since. He was a winner and he had tremendous support around him. I agree with all of that. I even agree that passing statistics and scoring statistics to a lesser extent are somewhat warped in today's offenses. HOWEVER, if I asked any objective observer whether a QB in Brian/Chip Kelly's offensive scheme or a QB in Lou Holtz's offensive scheme was likely to hold the record for most rushing TDs and/or most rushing yards in a game against a Power 5 opponent (I recognize there was no Power 5 during the Holtz era, but you get the point) I think most would agree that the option was much more conducive to high production rushing stats by a QB. What Wimbush did against BC was once in a lifetime stuff. We haven't seen 4 TDs by a player in 30 years, we have never seen 200+ yds by a QB in the history of ND, and the fact that Wimbush was a bad call on a step out of bounds from a 5th TD would have pushed the Allen Pinkett stat all the way back to 1905. I'm not giving him a Heisman (or two) or anything like that. I am simply saying that performance against BC was singularly fantastic in the history of Notre Dame Football. I hope he can continue it, and given it happened in his third start I am excited for his future.
I will refrain from being sarcastic toward you...but you're very out of touch with the intricate details of the game and the feel of it.
Yes the option back in the day was designed to help a team have a dominant rushing attack. However you act like Wimbush is somehow behind the 8 ball because he doesn't run the option which promoted churning out yards. This is where you're way wrong.
When you run out of a four and five wide set...every play is like a QB draw. In other words he might pass.. He might run. It's about fifty fifty. With four and five wides they need to be covered so the defense is already moving the back seven backward to cover the pass.
Look I applaud Wimbush game. Any fan would. Hell any college fan would. You have to be an incredible player to do what he did.
I would just like to see some good production against a much tougher defense. We have NOT seen that yet. In his lone big game so far he did nothing.
We will see
2nd start versus a top 5 defense in the country where he had basically one quality WR and a left tackle (entire OL) and run game play-calling (counters, reads, slow developing east/west bs) that choked on apple sauce.
Yes, we will see what the future holds for Brandon Wimbush.
Thank you for not being sarcastic and for dealing with me being out of touch with "the intricate details and feel of the game" - whatever that means. In terms of the "option back in the day" maybe you should check the stat sheets. Option offenses generate huge rushing stats, both yards and TDs, and that is not just back in the day. It is every year including this one. If you were objective, you would recognize that for Wimbush to break the records he did in his third start given the history and success Notre Dame has historically had as a rushing and option team, is an enormous accomplishment. People have glossed over it and continue to rail on the guy for his passes missing the mark in a game where he beat the all-time ND rushing record by SIXTY yards and scored 4 TDs. I am sorry, but that is like picking on a pitcher who throws a no hitter for not being able to hit. I am sure there will be many games where we can question his performances, but this should not really be one of them.
If you are a fan of the 88 team, as I was, you know that during much of Holtz's regime both fans and critics alike questioned ND's offense, saying we needed to be more pro-style if we were going to keep up with the Florida teams and others implementing the West Coast offense. I'm glad we didn't. That 88 team started Mark Green and Anthony Johnson, with Ricky Watters, Reggie Brooks, Rodney Culver and Rocket also running the ball. If there is a lesson in there somewhere, it might have something to do with utilizing the talent you have. Wimbush can run. Let him run. Will Josh Adams, Dexter Williams and Tony Jones someday sound like a killer All-American, NFL triumvirate in the making - maybe. For now I can tell you a kid just crushed a couple records that had had no business crushing given the talent around him and the scheme being run. Let's enjoy it.
I'm enjoying it. Trust me. And what he did was a great thing.
However before I start celebrating him with comparisons of players who performed at their best.. against the best..I'd certainly like to see some quality wins against the better opponents.
As far as the option...
Yes those teams and current option users rack up big rushing numbers... What I'm saying is it's easier for a QB to get yardage today then in an option offense.
The defense has to respect the pass much more when you have four and five wides obviously than in the option. Not to say a pass once in a blue moon can happen in the option but odds are it's a run. When you go four plus recievers odds are it's a pass. The defense has to respect that. So the back seven first step is back pedaling.
From a defense point of view it's a total nightmare trying to defend the multiple wideouts and a running QB.
He's running with much more confidence now and cutting off his blocks much better.
I think it's great.
When he can do that on the big stage I'll be even happier.
Only time will tell.
Wimbush's accuracy is a concern, but people getting on him for "doing nothing" against the one good team we played seem to be forgetting that it was his 2nd game playing any meaningful minutes. His experience up until then was a few garbage minutes last year and Temple. Give the kid a little bit more time than that to expect him to be Tony Rice.
