Noticed on different website

[Izo]

247 Sports . ND has moved down to 12 in 2017 recruiting.Not that bad considering that some on this board predicted anywhere between 10-15 in final recruiting rankings .
Ohio State has commits of 7-5 star and Alabama 4- 5- star Commits . Florida State 3- 5 star . .

My point is that with 2016 recruits like Hayes ,Okwara , Kareem and the defensive backs etc plus this year ,2017 haul , we have the talent to beat most of the teams on our schedule .in addition our offensive line with Nelson, McGlinchey ,Mustipher, Bars and Wimbush at quarterback ,and Adams, Williams ,Jones at running back plus A.Jones at tight end, StBrown , Stepherson etc we should be a potent offense.

 

[NDEwing18]

247
My point is that with 2016 recruits like Hayes ,Okwara , Kareem and the defensive backs etc plus this year ,2017 haul , we have the talent to beat most of the teams on our schedule

When has that statement been untrue over the past 20 years?

 

[Izo]

Just wanted to point out , the talent is there after a disastrous 2016

 

[NDEwing18]

Just wanted to point out , the talent is there after a disastrous 2016

The talent has always been there, for what it's worth. We've underachieved for the majority of the past 20 years.

 

[Telx1]

I think our talent issue has been lack of balance. Put our 2012 defense with our 2014 offense and we would be competitive with the likes of Alabama. This years offense has the potential to be really good; and our back seven on defense will be the best we've had in years, but our defensive line is below average based on past performance and will have to rely on relatively inexperienced sophomores to improve significantly. It's going to be fun watching Elko take this defense and install his system.

 

[88ND]

Just wanted to point out , the talent is there after a disastrous 2016

The material is always there. It's all the other little pesky things that reach up and befuddle BK. Things like in game management, tackling, ball skills, special teams...
You take any of the elites and all those highly ranked recruits and you coach them the way our players are coached......those teams would become very pedestrian.

You can have the number one rated QB in the land but when you make him drop back 37 times in a hurricane well he doesn't look very number one rated anymore.

See what I mean.

 

[Telx1]

The material is always there. It's all the other little pesky things that reach up and befuddle BK. Things like in game management, tackling, ball skills, special teams...
You take any of the elites and all those highly ranked recruits and you coach them the way our players are coached......those teams would become very pedestrian.

You can have the number one rated QB in the land but when you make him drop back 37 times in a hurricane well he doesn't look very number one rated anymore.

See what I mean.

88ND...I agree, but to your point, this years team will NOT be coached the same as our recent teams. I expect we'll see major improvements in tackling and special teams play, etc... As for game management and inexplicable decisions like what happened at Texas and North Carolina State, there's no reason to expect change, just hope that the hot seat and concern over his legacy will influence Kelly in a positive way.

 

[88ND]

88ND...I agree, but to your point, this years team will NOT be coached the same as our recent teams. I expect we'll see major improvements in tackling and special teams play, etc... As for game management and inexplicable decisions like what happened at Texas and North Carolina State, there's no reason to expect change, just hope that the hot seat and concern over his legacy will influence Kelly in a positive way.

Yes.....

And people LOVE pointing to the twelve team. Well when you have 5+ NFL players on defense they bailed Kelly out many times.

The one common theme here is Kelly is incapable of winning a game by himself.

I mean a team to defy the odds. Strategy, getting them wound up...However it's done he has proven he is not capable of such a task.

So what you're suggesting is the defense will finally be competitive. I'm all for that but at some point or points when the other team is trying really hard too the game can hinge on decisions by BK...therein lies the problem.

 

[deadirishpoet]

88ND...I agree, but to your point, this years team will NOT be coached the same as our recent teams. I expect we'll see major improvements in tackling.................

I had no idea Wake Forest defense was that good?

 

[perseverare]

247 Sports . ND has moved down to 12 in 2017 recruiting.Not that bad considering that some on this board predicted anywhere between 10-15 in final recruiting rankings .
Ohio State has commits of 7-5 star and Alabama 4- 5- star Commits . Florida State 3- 5 star . .

My point is that with 2016 recruits like Hayes ,Okwara , Kareem and the defensive backs etc plus this year ,2017 haul , we have the talent to beat most of the teams on our schedule .in addition our offensive line with Nelson, McGlinchey ,Mustipher, Bars and Wimbush at quarterback ,and Adams, Williams ,Jones at running back plus A.Jones at tight end, StBrown , Stepherson etc we should be a potent offense.

well the usual big closers have not made their move up as yet.

DIP
review defensive recruiting for the past 5 cycles. And do it with the realization that the rivals for ND are recruiting also.

 

[Nocalirish]

BK HC= 4-8.

 

[hoopsstar12]

12th in star ratings but we are not filling our defensive needs. 11th comandment. Thou shall not live on offense alone.

 

[perseverare]

The remaining targets are not a group that would project as starters. The staff is left just trying to make the best of the bad situation that Jack has brought upon ND.

Incredible that Kelly could concievably coach ND 12 years w/o winning a major bowl let alone a NC!
That would be more than 2x's greater duration of any previously unsuccessful ND head coach.
That stat would be his legacy!

 

[Howard Hall 74]

Yes.....

And people LOVE pointing to the twelve team. Well when you have 5+ NFL players on defense they bailed Kelly out many times.

The one common theme here is Kelly is incapable of winning a game by himself.

I mean a team to defy the odds. Strategy, getting them wound up...However it's done he has proven he is not capable of such a task.

So what you're suggesting is the defense will finally be competitive. I'm all for that but at some point or points when the other team is trying really hard too the game can hinge on decisions by BK...therein lies the problem.

And all were recruited by Weis. Kelly inherited the foundation of the team in '12 and the year after getting slaughtered in the most ill prepared, most horribly game planned NC game, he insults them by saying he needs to get more of 'his kind of guys'. Well, he's got them now and he's still here and most on this board continue to alibi and excuse this impostor of a D1 coach. You got 3 weeks of recruiting left, let's see what this flurry of activity will bring. More 2*&3* sensations? 15 commitments now. If no one leaves. Let's see what we end up with. My suspicion is Kelly is here for 2 maybe 3 more years. Or Swarbrick just allowed him to hire 4-5 assistants for 3 years and their salaries so the program can choke on this mess when he's called on it. The talent level here is OK for a 12-25 ranked team, but don't expect to go far with this group unless a spectacular QB emerges and Kelly rides him.

 

[NDSMC78]

And all were recruited by Weis. Kelly inherited the foundation of the team in '12 and the year after getting slaughtered in the most ill prepared, most horribly game planned NC game, he insults them by saying he needs to get more of 'his kind of guys'. Well, he's got them now and he's still here and most on this board continue to alibi and excuse this impostor of a D1 coach. You got 3 weeks of recruiting left, let's see what this flurry of activity will bring. More 2*&3* sensations? 15 commitments now. If no one leaves. Let's see what we end up with. My suspicion is Kelly is here for 2 maybe 3 more years. Or Swarbrick just allowed him to hire 4-5 assistants for 3 years and their salaries so the program can choke on this mess when he's called on it. The talent level here is OK for a 12-25 ranked team, but don't expect to go far with this group unless a spectacular QB emerges and Kelly rides him.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

 

[88ND]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

For some passionate fans very much so.

For others losing apparently has become accepted but I'm not sure why you need to make a sarcastic ass comment when someone is stating facts of what happened or is currently happening.

 

[Bodizephax]

For some passionate fans very much so.

For others losing apparently has become accepted but I'm not sure why you need to make a sarcastic ass comment when someone is stating facts of what happened or is currently happening.

The sky is falling !! The sky is falling !!

 

[Classic Irish]

And all were recruited by Weis. Kelly inherited the foundation of the team in '12 and the year after getting slaughtered in the most ill prepared, most horribly game planned NC game, he insults them by saying he needs to get more of 'his kind of guys'. Well, he's got them now and he's still here and most on this board continue to alibi and excuse this impostor of a D1 coach. You got 3 weeks of recruiting left, let's see what this flurry of activity will bring. More 2*&3* sensations? 15 commitments now. If no one leaves. Let's see what we end up with. My suspicion is Kelly is here for 2 maybe 3 more years. Or Swarbrick just allowed him to hire 4-5 assistants for 3 years and their salaries so the program can choke on this mess when he's called on it. The talent level here is OK for a 12-25 ranked team, but don't expect to go far with this group unless a spectacular QB emerges and Kelly rides him.

The charade continues.

 

[perseverare]

a few of these potential recruits might make us forget Barry Gallop!

 

[Izo]

The defensive line this coming season .Any breakout players here . Still seems to be Achilles heel of this team

You have to admit . We made it to the NC championship game in 2012. And in 2014 we were off to a great start until our winning touchdown was called back against #1Florida State after which we went into a tailspin . Then in 2015 , a championship type season ended with Clemson and Stanford games . Couldn't get over the hump.But on all this there are a few things that concerned me in the Kelly era . ND had some losses and uninspiring win with games against of Tulsa , Navy, Virginia ,Temple , Pittsburgh, North Carolina State, Duke etc .and the other noticeable thing that stands out ,we have not had a signature win since 2012 .

Something has to change ? But what? All the posts recognize a problem .what is Kelly going to do differently ?

 

[perseverare]

actually, there must be pressure from somewhere on Kelly, because he has 'gotten used to it' and probably, clueless as he is, would have done nothing!

 

[NyyorkerND]

The defensive line this coming season .Any breakout players here . Still seems to be Achilles heel of this team

You have to admit . We made it to the NC championship game in 2012. And in 2014 we were off to a great start until our winning touchdown was called back against #1Florida State after which we went into a tailspin . Then in 2015 , a championship type season ended with Clemson and Stanford games . Couldn't get over the hump.But on all this there are a few things that concerned me in the Kelly era . ND had some losses and uninspiring win with games against of Tulsa , Navy, Virginia ,Temple , Pittsburgh, North Carolina State, Duke etc .and the other noticeable thing that stands out ,we have not had a signature win since 2012 .

Something has to change ? But what? All the posts recognize a problem .what is Kelly going to do differently ?

Izo he just hired an entire new staff. Look a lot of guys are back this year I would've loved for Kizer to stay but he got a first round grade so him leaving is understandable. We will improve this year for sure. I hope Kelly does really well and win 10 plus games because we'll keep the staff intact and have a really good recruiting class.

 

[Irishjohn68]

Yes.....

And people LOVE pointing to the twelve team. Well when you have 5+ NFL players on defense they bailed Kelly out many times.

The one common theme here is Kelly is incapable of winning a game by himself.

I mean a team to defy the odds. Strategy, getting them wound up...However it's done he has proven he is not capable of such a task.

So what you're suggesting is the defense will finally be competitive. I'm all for that but at some point or points when the other team is trying really hard too the game can hinge on decisions by BK...therein lies the problem.

Who was the head coach of that defense in 2012 with those 5 NFL players?

 

[deadirishpoet]

Who was the head coach of that defense in 2012 with those 5 NFL players?

Bob Diaco!

It is clear coach Kelly has no interest in the defensive side of the ball. We've seen this at UCM, UC and now ,UND.

 

[IrishInOntario]

We've been through this before... Weis did not recruit the entire 2012 defense, no matter what people want to believe in their personal narative...

DE: Stephon Tuitt (Brian Kelly)
NG: Louis Nix (Tony Alford / Brian Kelly)
DE: Kapron Lewis-Moore (Charlie Weis)
OLB: Prince Shembo (Charlie Weis)
ILB: Manti Te'o (Charlie Weis)
ILB: Dan Fox (Charlie Weis)
OLB: Danny Spond (Brian Kelly)
CB: Bennett Jackson (Charlie Weis)
S: Matthias Farley (Brian Kelly)
S: Zeke Motta (Charlie Weis)
CB: Keivarae Russell (Brian Kelly)

DE: Sheldon Day (Brian Kelly)
NG: Kona Schwenke (Brian Kelly)
DE / NG: Tony Springmann (Brian Kelly)
ILB: Carlo Calabrese (Charlie Weis)
ILB: Jarrett Grace (Brian Kelly)
OLB: Ben Councell (Brian Kelly)
OLB: Ishaq Williams Brian Kelly)
S: Nicky Barrati (Brian Kelly)

Of the 19 players that took meaningful snaps for ND's defense in 2012, 12 of them were recruited by Brian Kelly. People forget how young of a defense that was aside from the starting linebackers and half the defensive line.

 

[deadirishpoet]

We've been through this before... Weis did not recruit the entire 2012 defense, no matter what people want to believe in their personal narative...

DE: Stephon Tuitt (Brian Kelly)
NG: Louis Nix (Tony Alford / Brian Kelly)
DE: Kapron Lewis-Moore (Charlie Weis)
OLB: Prince Shembo (Charlie Weis)
ILB: Manti Te'o (Charlie Weis)
ILB: Dan Fox (Charlie Weis)
OLB: Danny Spond (Brian Kelly)
CB: Bennett Jackson (Charlie Weis)
S: Matthias Farley (Brian Kelly)
S: Zeke Motta (Charlie Weis)
CB: Keivarae Russell (Brian Kelly)

DE: Sheldon Day (Brian Kelly)
NG: Kona Schwenke (Brian Kelly)
DE / NG: Tony Springmann (Brian Kelly)
ILB: Carlo Calabrese (Charlie Weis)
ILB: Jarrett Grace (Brian Kelly)
OLB: Ben Councell (Brian Kelly)
OLB: Ishaq Williams Brian Kelly)
S: Nicky Barrati (Brian Kelly)

Of the 19 players that took meaningful snaps for ND's defense in 2012, 12 of them were recruited by Brian Kelly. People forget how young of a defense that was aside from the starting linebackers and half the defensive line.

Louis Nix committed when ND didn't have a HC.

The Idea of ND sold him though coach Weis spoke with him prior to his firing

 

[Irishjohn68]

Bob Diaco!

It is clear coach Kelly has no interest in the defensive side of the ball. We've seen this at UCM, UC and now ,UND.

I asked head coach!

 

[88ND]

We've been through this before... Weis did not recruit the entire 2012 defense, no matter what people want to believe in their personal narative...

DE: Stephon Tuitt (Brian Kelly)
NG: Louis Nix (Tony Alford / Brian Kelly)
DE: Kapron Lewis-Moore (Charlie Weis)
OLB: Prince Shembo (Charlie Weis)
ILB: Manti Te'o (Charlie Weis)
ILB: Dan Fox (Charlie Weis)
OLB: Danny Spond (Brian Kelly)
CB: Bennett Jackson (Charlie Weis)
S: Matthias Farley (Brian Kelly)
S: Zeke Motta (Charlie Weis)
CB: Keivarae Russell (Brian Kelly)

DE: Sheldon Day (Brian Kelly)
NG: Kona Schwenke (Brian Kelly)
DE / NG: Tony Springmann (Brian Kelly)
ILB: Carlo Calabrese (Charlie Weis)
ILB: Jarrett Grace (Brian Kelly)
OLB: Ben Councell (Brian Kelly)
OLB: Ishaq Williams Brian Kelly)
S: Nicky Barrati (Brian Kelly)

Of the 19 players that took meaningful snaps for ND's defense in 2012, 12 of them were recruited by Brian Kelly. People forget how young of a defense that was aside from the starting linebackers and half the defensive line.

Your list is not accurate.

But for conversation sake...well say it is.

So that tells me that Kelly had become extremely lazy because we've not had a defense even close to the twelve group.

The three most valuable players on that twelve team were not even Kelly's.
Nix, Teo, Motta

Tuitt was awesome but Nix was the be all end all on that d line in twelve.
Teo and Motta were CW players.

Matter of fact BK must be allergic to recruiting safeties. The last good safeties all came from a different coach.

Amazing considering the importance of that position. Zbikowski, Harrison Smith, Motta, hell even Kyle mccarthy. None of which were BK players and none have been as good as these players.

 

[deadirishpoet]

I asked head coach!

I replied
Coach Diaco was the HC of the defense

Coach Kelly NEVER addressed defensive issues from UCM,UC,and now the UND

Now if you were to ask who rode the coat tails of the DC in 2012 then that would be Brian Kelly.

Even when ND defense was in the decline of the BVG yrs unlike coach Holtz coach Kelly had no idea how to fix it.

 

[88ND]

I replied
Coach Diaco was the HC of the defense

Coach Kelly NEVER addressed defensive issues from UCM,UC,and now the UND

Now if you were to ask who rode the coat tails of the DC in 2012 then that would be Brian Kelly.

Even when ND defense was in the decline of the BVG yrs unlike coach Holtz coach Kelly had no idea how to fix it.

Thud

 

[Irishjohn68]

Sorry, if you are going to blame Kelly when the tanks, then give him credit when the team does well. I am sick and tired of people choosing to place all the blame at Kelly's feet but do not give him credit when he has success, like the 2012 team. Sorry you can't have it go one way.

Listen I don't think Kelly is the man for Notre Dame any more. But I do recognize that he has done some pretty darn remarkable job at ND. Give the man credit for some things.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Sorry, if you are going to blame Kelly when the tanks, then give him credit when the team does well. I am sick and tired of people choosing to place all the blame at Kelly's feet but do not give him credit when he has success, like the 2012 team. Sorry you can't have it go one way.

Listen I don't think Kelly is the man for Notre Dame any more. But I do recognize that he has done some pretty darn remarkable job at ND. Give the man credit for some things.

Coach Kelly came to ND as some kind of offensive genius...correct?
There was NO offensive genius in 2012 His third season. It was all defense and catching some critical breaks., and let not forget throwing the other guys players under the bus that season.

I have given coach Kelly credit as to being an excellent evaluator of assistant coaches. Especially in his early season at ND, but avg one more win a season at ND over Weis, Willingham ,or Davie is not a dam remarkable job at ND unless the meaning of the word has dropped in value.

If coach Kelly puts together a complete program this season I surely will give him credit...I promise

 

[deadirishpoet]

Sorry, if you are going to blame Kelly when the tanks, then give him credit when the team does well. I am sick and tired of people choosing to place all the blame at Kelly's feet but do not give him credit when he has success, like the 2012 team. Sorry you can't have it go one way.

Listen I don't think Kelly is the man for Notre Dame any more. But I do recognize that he has done some pretty darn remarkable job at ND. Give the man credit for some things.

Though John I do believe coach Kelly did a good job in 2015, and believe that was his best season at ND

 

[Bodizephax]

I replied
Coach Diaco was the HC of the defense

Coach Kelly NEVER addressed defensive issues from UCM,UC,and now the UND

Now if you were to ask who rode the coat tails of the DC in 2012 then that would be Brian Kelly.

Even when ND defense was in the decline of the BVG yrs unlike coach Holtz coach Kelly had no idea how to fix it.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Your list is not accurate.

But for conversation sake...well say it is.

So that tells me that Kelly had become extremely lazy because we've not had a defense even close to the twelve group.

The three most valuable players on that twelve team were not even Kelly's.
Nix, Teo, Motta

Tuitt was awesome but Nix was the be all end all on that d line in twelve.
Teo and Motta were CW players.

Matter of fact BK must be allergic to recruiting safeties. The last good safeties all came from a different coach.

Amazing considering the importance of that position. Zbikowski, Harrison Smith, Motta, hell even Kyle mccarthy. None of which were BK players and none have been as good as these players.

I'd like to know what about my list is inaccurate?

I worked for Mike Frank at IrishSportsDaily during the transition from Weis to Kelly, and spoke to nearly all of the players that Kelly and his staff recruited during his first two years. As someone who personally talked to those kids on a weekly basis, I'm curious as to what you know that I don't about who recruited them?

As for Louis Nix, he committed to Tony Alford, while ND did not have a head coach. Alford was a holdover and stayed on Nix, but it became a complete staff effort to hold onto him and keep him from Miami when Kelly was hired. Kelly, Elston, Alford, and yes, even Diaco, all did a fantastic job of recruiting him to Notre Dame, and to the new 3-4 defense Diaco was installing