National Signing Day

[Golson5]

California is not drawing kids and their recruiting ranking is down the last 2 years because their football program is a mess. The coach has been on the hot seat for 3 years. The assistants are in and out. The Ad has been changed. The football dept is a mess.

You're talking like it has something to do with California. It does not. The football program has become a mess. That is why recruiting has been down.

USC landed the number 4 recruiting class in 2017 and 2018. Players arent deciding against going there because California is not a great place anymore. The football program has turned.

Put a good coach there, theyll be a top program again. Put Urban there and they are a monster and landing number 1 recruiting classes yearly

 

[chitown sot]

Put a good coach there, theyll be a top program again. Put Urban there and they are a monster and landing number 1 recruiting classes yearly[/QUOTE]
Id like to put bk there.

 

[d1042]

Unfortunately, state government and local government in the big metro areas have so screwed up California that it might be beyond fixing. As much as the average working person in 90% of the state would like to fix it, the LA area and the Bay Area have enough votes to cancel everyone else out, and they just keep digging the hole deeper. It's a bit hyperbole, but if it keeps going like it is you'll end up with very wealthy people and homeless people, and nobody else.

and Nancy Pelosi and friends will retire to a cabin in Montana!

 

[BGI User 1596]

and Nancy Pelosi and friends will retire to a cabin in Montana!

Unlike the unibomber she’s trying to blow up the country beforehand!

 

[Catholicfan95]

California is not drawing kids and their recruiting ranking is down the last 2 years because their football program is a mess. The coach has been on the hot seat for 3 years. The assistants are in and out. The Ad has been changed. The football dept is a mess.

You're talking like it has something to do with California. It does not. The football program has become a mess. That is why recruiting has been down.

USC landed the number 4 recruiting class in 2017 and 2018. Players arent deciding against going there because California is not a great place anymore. The football program has turned.

Put a good coach there, theyll be a top program again. Put Urban there and they are a monster and landing number 1 recruiting classes yearly

And why would a coach want to go there with the myriad of issues presented? I have seen your stance before you are unwilling to budge regardless of point presented. I noticed there was no mention of the stats I put up showing that CA kids are close to 80% of the roster at USC and how its keeping kids home not drawing them in. But, you wont budge so there really is not even a point to me highlighting all the facts I put in front of you, yet you cant present one fact to back up your stance, its all just theory, which is cute, but hardly effective. And if you put UM anywhere he'd be dominate so really not a great point.

 

[d1042]

And why would a coach want to go there with the myriad of issues presented? I have seen your stance before you are unwilling to budge regardless of point presented. I noticed there was no mention of the stats I put up showing that CA kids are close to 80% of the roster at USC and how its keeping kids home not drawing them in. But, you wont budge so there really is not even a point to me highlighting all the facts I put in front of you, yet you cant present one fact to back up your stance, its all just theory, which is cute, but hardly effective. And if you put UM anywhere he'd be dominate so really not a great point.

the top players are opting for the SEC and ACC. Oregon’s head coach calls California Oregon’s home state as far as recruiting!

Why am I even discussing this with you, you can’t even see the obvious.

 

[Catholicfan95]

the top players are opting for the SEC and ACC. Oregon’s head coach calls California Oregon’s home state as far as recruiting!

Why am I even discussing this with you, you can’t even see the obvious.

Again, USC's roster is 80% in state kids. Top players are opting to not play in California. If you take in state kids out of the equation, you have your answer. I really do not understand what you people are not grasping about the situation.

 

[Golson5]

Put a good coach there, theyll be a top program again. Put Urban there and they are a monster and landing number 1 recruiting classes yearly

Id like to put bk there.[/QUOTE]
Bk at ND averages around 11 in recruiting and last 3 years ND is a top 8 program.

Put him at USC right now and they are recruiting top 5 classes every year and a top 5 program within 3 years

 

[Golson5]

Again, USC's roster is 80% in state kids. Top players are opting to not play in California. If you take in state kids out of the equation, you have your answer. I really do not understand what you people are not grasping about the situation.

Because of the coach and the football department situation. Once they get a good coach they will be recruiting top 5 classes just like they were just 3 years ago. USC and where it's located can almost recruit itself. You just can't be a dumpster fire which they are right now. It's toxic. Fix it up and hire a good coach, they become a monster

 

[Catholicfan95]

Because of the coach and the football department situation. Once they get a good coach they will be recruiting top 5 classes just like they were just 3 years ago. USC and where it's located can almost recruit itself. You just can't be a dumpster fire which they are right now. It's toxic. Fix it up and hire a good coach, they become a monster

So are they drawing kids from out of state, or are they convincing talent to stay? We are getting off topic. If some of the nations top tier talent is from the state of CA and almost all major D1 football in the state is made up of 75-80% CA kids can we all just admit that none of what you are trying to preach is applicable? The conversation isn't can USC be good again, its what is the draw, so if they are not drawing out of state kids to the program your entire argument is flawed. In 2005 only 17 kids were out of state kids on the USC roster, and that was arguably one of the best squads ever. See, the argument you present is so deeply flawed that what you fail to acknowledge is that CA football rosters are primarily made up of CA kids, so they are not selling this draw you are trying to sell me on. The kids on this roster already know what CA has to offer so they are staying home, which proves my point that the CA draw is not any better than anywhere else in the country. However, as I have acknowledged in several of these post and also presented great data points for, CA is abundant in talent so there isn't a real need to have a higher diversity in home state on a roster similar to Texas or UF. However, what it does suggest is that USC and other CA are even going after kids out side of the state primarily because they must not see the need, so you really cant claim that CA draws kids in due to its beauty, women or other amenities because the facts do not support that. If you took some time to do some actual research you would see that what you are trying to present to me is a myth, an old wives tale.

Synopsis: If a roster is made up by an overwhelming percentage of in state kids, the argument of CA schools using lifestyle, landscape, beaches, women and night life as recruiting tools to draw kids is not supported by facts. What is supported by facts is that an overwhelming majority of talented kids in CA are staying in state. However, now kids are leaving because football sucks there.

I really do not think we need to keep going, be resourceful and look up some data.

 

[Golson5]

So are they drawing kids from out of state, or are they convincing talent to stay? We are getting off topic. If some of the nations top tier talent is from the state of CA and almost all major D1 football in the state is made up of 75-80% CA kids can we all just admit that none of what you are trying to preach is applicable? The conversation isn't can USC be good again, its what is the draw, so if they are not drawing out of state kids to the program your entire argument is flawed. In 2005 only 17 kids were out of state kids on the USC roster, and that was arguably one of the best squads ever. See, the argument you present is so deeply flawed that what you fail to acknowledge is that CA football rosters are primarily made up of CA kids, so they are not selling this draw you are trying to sell me on. The kids on this roster already know what CA has to offer so they are staying home, which proves my point that the CA draw is not any better than anywhere else in the country. However, as I have acknowledged in several of these post and also presented great data points for, CA is abundant in talent so there isn't a real need to have a higher diversity in home state on a roster similar to Texas or UF. However, what it does suggest is that USC and other CA are even going after kids out side of the state primarily because they must not see the need, so you really cant claim that CA draws kids in due to its beauty, women or other amenities because the facts do not support that. If you took some time to do some actual research you would see that what you are trying to present to me is a myth, an old wives tale.

Synopsis: If a roster is made up by an overwhelming percentage of in state kids, the argument of CA schools using lifestyle, landscape, beaches, women and night life as recruiting tools to draw kids is not supported by facts. What is supported by facts is that an overwhelming majority of talented kids in CA are staying in state. However, now kids are leaving because football sucks there.

I really do not think we need to keep going, be resourceful and look up some data.

Not because there is no draw, because they didnt have to go out of state to get kids. California is loaded with talent. So why go out and get kids when they lock down the best players in state. Makes no sense. When Pete wanted to go out of state he went big game hunting and landed very talented players. Back in the day, teams would barely try to reach into southern Cali. Because USC locked it down. It was pointless. Then they added studs from around the state. Then they picked and chose who else they wanted from around the country. There was no need to go out of state too much when Cali had almost everyone they wanted.

 

[tbonesays]

32 of 125 are out of state kids for USC. That's 25%. 2020 roster

31 of 125 are out of state kids for Texas. Right around 24/25%.2020 roster

42 of 125 are out of state kids for Floria. That's 32%. 2020 roster


So what does that tell us? California is not drawing in kids, they are just convincing them to stay home. @Golson5

If the state is a hotbed like California or Florida, a team can win a national title just by getting all the local talent to stay in one program. Now it rarely worksout perfectly that way, but theconcept still applies.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Not because there is no draw, because they didnt have to go out of state to get kids. California is loaded with talent. So why go out and get kids when they lock down the best players in state. Makes no sense. When Pete wanted to go out of state he went big game hunting and landed very talented players. Back in the day, teams would barely try to reach into southern Cali. Because USC locked it down. It was pointless. Then they added studs from around the state. Then they picked and chose who else they wanted from around the country. There was no need to go out of state too much when Cali had almost everyone they wanted.

Dude, make a point and stick to it. You cant say USC or other CA schools dominate recruiting because of location and amenities because its not true. Then you flip after I proved that the roster is 80% CA while also admitting it is that way because CA is talented similar to texas and florida rosters whose numbers are similar. You made an argument, it was proven to be incorrect, and now you are just writing things I have already gone in depth about.

 

[Catholicfan95]

If the state is a hotbed like California or Florida, a team can win a national title just by getting all the local talent to stay in one program. Now it rarely worksout perfectly that way, but theconcept still applies.

Okay but theres a differnece between drawing kids in and convincing them to stay. Yes, same tactics can be used but it does not support drawing kids in. I really do not understand what is so complicated about all this, I have put fact after fact on this board and you all still do not seem to grasp this concept. You all made statements suggesting that USC and CA draw kids in with beaches, Hollywood, night life and weather or women right? So drawing someone in means offering things that they do not already have available to them or at least pitch the quality is better. So when 80% of the kids do not need to be sold on what they already have, it comes down to a matter of convincing them it is better here and they should stay. That is different than drawing some kid in from out of state. For example, if I am from CA you are not going to be able to sell me culture, weather, women etc. because I already have it, it boils down to if I want to stay or not, which proven by facts, most CA kids stay in CA. Again, is it really that hard to discern the difference between the two.

 

[Catholicfan95]

If the state is a hotbed like California or Florida, a team can win a national title just by getting all the local talent to stay in one program. Now it rarely worksout perfectly that way, but the concept still applies.

Point being this, if you want to go and site see California is the place for you, if you want to win games you go elsewhere...if all you can give me is amenities then you really have to ask yourself is that really a draw? Obviously not enough to be picking up kids that can win games, but that falls back on the coach right? But I thought recruiting was the end all be all and class rank is all that matters? You people are wildly inconstant, things only apply when they prove your point and I take issue with that. One day its the players, the next day its the coach, then its the administration when maybe its an equal balance of all things sucking. I just find it hard to justify some stances on here when, as I pointed out, they change every day on every thread. If you drawl a line and say this is that then flop how am I suppose to think you've actually looked at facts and formulated an opinion based on something meaningful. It is not good enough to have an opinion and just present it, I again do not understand why that is so hard to understand. No one making the opposing argument has presented one single fact to me, none. No links, no measurable data there is nothing to link your opinion to other than thats simply just the way you feel, and to me that is on the same playing field as being incorrect. If you present an argument, or an opinion, explain it to me based on something other than what you have heard from someone to back up your thought process, thats really all I am looking for.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

1. Triple responding with long ass paragraphs doesn't help your point when its confusing to follow and I am not sure the "Drawing In v. Convincing to Stay" isn't just a distinction without a difference.

2. People talking about USC dominating recruiting in this thread are talking about how in the past they dominated recruiting. Golson gave examples from the Carroll era, over a decade ago.

3. 80% of the roster being from California isn't the same as signing 80% of the top talent from California. Its pretty well documented that Helton has been killed by (a) his performance and (b) the instability with the admin around him that has led to a lot of top end recruits going elsewhere when they would have been prime USC candidates in seasons past.

4. Finally, even in Helton's good recruiting years the rankings are misleading because while their is top end talent in the classes the staff didn't recruit a balanced class and the roster has a lot of holes on it, specifically along the lines.

 

[Catholicfan95]

1. Triple responding with long ass paragraphs doesn't help your point when its confusing to follow and I am not sure the "Drawing In v. Convincing to Stay" isn't just a distinction without a difference.

2. People talking about USC dominating recruiting in this thread are talking about how in the past they dominated recruiting. Golson gave examples from the Carroll era, over a decade ago.

3. 80% of the roster being from California isn't the same as signing 80% of the top talent from California. Its pretty well documented that Helton has been killed by (a) his performance and (b) the instability with the admin around him that has led to a lot of top end recruits going elsewhere when they would have been prime USC candidates in seasons past.

4. Finally, even in Helton's good recruiting years the rankings are misleading because while their is top end talent in the classes the staff didn't recruit a balanced class and the roster has a lot of holes on it, specifically along the lines.

1. I triple responded to 2 posters with relevant and detailed information, if it is confusing it may be due to the fact that you have not read the thread, I do not know. However, I will concede that "Drawing in vs Convincing to stay" might not be a good enough point, but I was trying to further my prespective on the topic so posters can understand my thought process better. I would rather over explain and try to convey what it is I am trying to point out, rather than just post something with a bunch of holes in it. I think I do a good job explaining how I am thinking so I am sorry if its too long I just like to give insight into why I hold a stance.

2. I gave the example of the 2005 team having only 17 out of state players which would suggest that, as I mentioned in several of my posts, CA is rich in talent so its not a negative cogitation it is just facts that they do really need to recruit out of state. However, in the same tune I find it hard to suggest that CA schools have this national draw or appeal when the facts would suggest that the appeal is overwhelming one sided to in state kids. So if even at USC's peak if they are getting top talent it seems to be coming primarily from CA, which again goes against the suggestion that it has a national draw and offers so much to kids. I find it hard for that to be overwhelming true because the facts do not back that thought process.

3. If you just look back 10 years most of the nations top talent was in CA, though it seems to have shifted in the last few years, CA is still abundant in talent and recruiting cycles are cyclical so it really is not a point that is completely solid. The reason that the 80% is significant in this debate is it further proves that the draw and appeal of CA seems to be more appealing for in state kids. That is what that number would suggest. Now, in a certain recruiting we can assume that a certain percentage of that talent is from CA one year, but its hard to sustain dominance year after year. Though, facts would prove that CA, TX and FL are the nations richest states in talent and football programs in those states have similar numbers when it comes to roster as USC, so again its not like its a bad thing, it just not line up with the argument being suggested that USC and the appeal of CA brings in top tier talent.

4. Winning cures all. I have said and in fact started this whole stance by saying "winning is the only thing kids care about, the rest is icing on the cake" but schools in CA seem to be all icing no cake, and presenting an argument that if Urban Meyer was the coach there that they would dominate is moot because as we have all agreed it all about getting the coach right and to just chose arguably the greatest coach ever to prove a point doesnt really do much. Of course they would be dominate, but it would not be because of the amenities for mentioned, it would be because of the coach and his undying need to recruit the best kids.

 

[Golson5]

Dude, make a point and stick to it. You cant say USC or other CA schools dominate recruiting because of location and amenities because its not true. Then you flip after I proved that the roster is 80% CA while also admitting it is that way because CA is talented similar to texas and florida rosters whose numbers are similar. You made an argument, it was proven to be incorrect, and now you are just writing things I have already gone in depth about.

Stop arguing with yourself. You asked a question what is the draw to California. I responded with my opinion which I think the reasons I provided are legit and true. You disagree. Good for you, congrats. I dont agree with your opinion. Yet you keep arguing about those points. My answer remains the same on why I believe California is a major draw. Im not really concerned that you dont agree. You can keep going back and forth and arguing with yourself.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Stop arguing with yourself. You asked a question what is the draw to California. I responded with my opinion which I think the reasons I provided are legit and true. You disagree. Good for you, congrats. I dont agree with your opinion. Yet you keep arguing about those points. My answer remains the same on why I believe California is a major draw. Im not really concerned that you dont agree. You can keep going back and forth and arguing with yourself.

Coming from the same poster that argues the same Bk points with the same people almost every thread, while I agree with the stance I find it hypocritical that you would give me advice that you might want to take yourself, and the fact that you continue to respond would suggest that you do in fact care and want to make sure you get your point across. I am just making my point, if you do not agree just do not respond, it really is not that hard to grasp.

 

[chitown sot]

Id like to put bk there.

Bk at ND averages around 11 in recruiting and last 3 years ND is a top 8 program.

Put him at USC right now and they are recruiting top 5 classes every year and a top 5 program within 3 years[/QUOTE]
Thats swell, lets get him on the next plane to California. I'll even pay for it if he stays there.

 

[d1042]

Bk at ND averages around 11 in recruiting and last 3 years ND is a top 8 program.

Put him at USC right now and they are recruiting top 5 classes every year and a top 5 program within 3 years

Thats swell, lets get him on the next plane to California. I'll even pay for it if he stays there.[/QUOTE]

he actually would have done well there, but, the Californians liked sociopathicmoronic Clay Helton better and told Kelly ‘no thank you’.
And now....

 

[Golson5]

QUOTE="chitown sot, post: 2945474, member: 43593"]Bk at ND averages around 11 in recruiting and
Thats swell, lets get him on the next plane to California. I'll even pay for it if he stays there.[/QUOTE]
You know you cant afford that ticket. Maybe your mom or guardian but not you

 

[chitown sot]

QUOTE="chitown sot, post: 2945474, member: 43593"]Bk at ND averages around 11 in recruiting and
Thats swell, lets get him on the next plane to California. I'll even pay for it if he stays there.

You know you cant afford that ticket. Maybe your mom or guardian but not you[/QUOTE]
Yeah ok tough guy. Did your daddy bk take you on his recruiting trip?

 

[Golson5]

You know you cant afford that ticket. Maybe your mom or guardian but not you

Yeah ok tough guy. Did your daddy bk take you on his recruiting trip?[/QUOTE]
Good one

 

[tbonesays]

Point being this, if you want to go and site see California is the place for you, if you want to win games you go elsewhere...if all you can give me is amenities then you really have to ask yourself is that really a draw? Obviously not enough to be picking up kids that can win games, but that falls back on the coach right? But I thought recruiting was the end all be all and class rank is all that matters? You people are wildly inconstant, things only apply when they prove your point and I take issue with that. One day its the players, the next day its the coach, then its the administration when maybe its an equal balance of all things sucking. I just find it hard to justify some stances on here when, as I pointed out, they change every day on every thread. If you drawl a line and say this is that then flop how am I suppose to think you've actually looked at facts and formulated an opinion based on something meaningful. It is not good enough to have an opinion and just present it, I again do not understand why that is so hard to understand. No one making the opposing argument has presented one single fact to me, none. No links, no measurable data there is nothing to link your opinion to other than thats simply just the way you feel, and to me that is on the same playing field as being incorrect. If you present an argument, or an opinion, explain it to me based on something other than what you have heard from someone to back up your thought process, thats really all I am looking for.

Sal pretty much explained it. 2020 is an anomaly. When SC is recruiting at their historical norm they don't needto go out of state very often.

 

[d1042]

yep, something is very strange going on there; and very strange Helton’s hold on his job. This Varsity Blues scandal may have something to do with it.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Sal pretty much explained it. 2020 is an anomaly. When SC is recruiting at their historical norm they don't needto go out of state very often.

So this whole point I'm profaning is right. CA isn't benefiting from amenities and draw, their benefiting from talent in state, so all these posters trying to make it that CA schools have this national appeal is wrong. But as you can see, they fail to admit it because they are cowards.

 

[d1042]

So this whole point I'm profaning is right. CA isn't benefiting from amenities and draw, their benefiting from talent in state, so all these posters trying to make it that CA schools have this national appeal is wrong. But as you can see, they fail to admit it because they are cowards.

they have excellent universities, they offer great geography, what the heck is your hangup!
Environmentally Ca. offers everything South Bend does and a helluva lot more! And the educational opportunities are just as good!

 

[Catholicfan95]

they have excellent universities, they offer great geography, what the heck is your hangup!
Environmentally Ca. offers everything South Bend does and a helluva lot more! And the educational opportunities are just as good!

I've already made my points. I'm done here, reread the thread.

 

[d1042]

I've already made my points. I'm done here, reread the thread.

well to summarize your points:
.
.
.

 

[Catholicfan95]

well to summarize your points:
.
.
.

No, to summarize. I presented an argument with facts and detailed explanation to give an insight into my thought process. I was told I was wrong based on absolutely nothing. Reread the conversation, it's elementary. You and your counter parts disagree, fine. You've all taken it way to personally that I don't find the state of CA appealing or that it doesn't have a national draw to recruits.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

So this whole point I'm profaning is right. CA isn't benefiting from amenities and draw, their benefiting from talent in state, so all these posters trying to make it that CA schools have this national appeal is wrong. But as you can see, they fail to admit it because they are cowards.

No. Its true Helton has a team that is batting .600 and above average in conference on the strength of in state talent that is picked over by the big boys. But when USC was rolling they were getting the top end talent in Cali plus nationwide based on the LA atmosphere, the facilities and the promise of going into the league. Carroll is gone, the admin hasn’t been stable enough to keep the facilities going, and in Hollywood they only care if you’re a winner which they aren’t. Yes they are lucky that the middle tier of their state is better then the top tiers of some states so striking out on top end talent doesn’t hurt as bad as is their base was say Utah but they aren’t benefiting from much these days.

 

[mbd11]

Again, USC's roster is 80% in state kids. Top players are opting to not play in California. If you take in state kids out of the equation, you have your answer. I really do not understand what you people are not grasping about the situation.

It’s just about winning. There are no California teams in the top 10 right now, so the top recruits from there are leaving the state to go play for top 10 teams. Winning begets good recruiting.

 

[Catholicfan95]

No. Its true Helton has a team that is batting .600 and above average in conference on the strength of in state talent that is picked over by the big boys. But when USC was rolling they were getting the top end talent in Cali plus nationwide based on the LA atmosphere, the facilities and the promise of going into the league. Carroll is gone, the admin hasn’t been stable enough to keep the facilities going, and in Hollywood they only care if you’re a winner which they aren’t. Yes they are lucky that the middle tier of their state is better then the top tiers of some states so striking out on top end talent doesn’t hurt as bad as is their base was say Utah but they aren’t benefiting from much these days.

Winning is literally all that matters.

 

[Catholicfan95]

It’s just about winning. There are no California teams in the top 10 right now, so the top recruits from there are leaving the state to go play for top 10 teams. Winning begets good recruiting.

Which is part of my whole point. All this other stuff is icing on the cake.

 

[tbonesays]

CA isn't benefiting from amenities and draw, their benefiting from talent in state,

Those aren't mutually exclusive. And isolating one reason from the other is not possible.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Those aren't mutually exclusive. And isolating one reason from the other is not possible.

CA does absolutely nothing for me, I get it's pretty but all that stuff doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly does not appeal to me.

 

[Golson5]

CA does absolutely nothing for me, I get it's pretty but all that stuff doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly does not appeal to me.

We got that. But it appeals to a lot of other people

 

[Catholicfan95]

We got that. But it appeals to a lot of other people

There's also a percentage of people who don't get the appeal, I don't see why it's a bad thing to just make that point. Not everyone likes the same stuff.

 

[Patrirish]

H

CA does absolutely nothing for me, I get it's pretty but all that stuff doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly does not appeal to me.

Have you visited the campus at UCLA ?