My "theory" on Schmidt's play

[FightingIrish44]

Because it will become worse. Whether you call Joe Schmidt's position Mike, Safety, corner, tackle, etc, you still need someone to line up at LB depth who can play inside the tackle box.

If you have an extra DB doing that, he's not going to do it well. If you put an extra lineman out there, how are you going to matchup against spread formations, other than simply plan man to man every down?

Its not going to happen.

 

[perseverare]

well, I decided to drop the whole review because no doubt, it won't provide anything that was not apparent in the 6 Qtrs of SC/Clemson! Abysmal.

 

[BGI User 348]

Coaching & "loyalty" to players. Most coaches play the best "practice" player and 99% of the time that works. However there are lousy practice guys that shine in games. There are guys like Joe who get a chance then do well. Heck even 2 years ago BK put Max in the Pinstripe after Diaco left cause he wanted to see him in a game. HUDL does not lie-----and of course coaches see it. Just very very hard to sub for a "C".

 

[88ND]

Joe plays that position as it should be played in lieu of tackling....but the tackling outside of Day is a team wide problem this year.

Let me ask this...if Joe was tackling better would there be any talk regarding his play? I only ask this because at this point I'm inclined to think they stopped going hot at practice once the season started in total fear of more injury.
They can't possibly be proud of the tackling as a whole on this team.

That said there just has to be a reason why the wide spread regression of tackling that has plagued everyone but day.

 

[Java65]

My theory is that people forget his play last year. People forget the was terrible from UNC on. Even the 1st half of the Navy game he was not good.

ND played some really bad teams with terrible offenses before that time; Rice, UM, Purdue, Syracuse and Stanford were not great offenses.

 

[perseverare]

my guess is JS will be fine vs Temple. Against the teams with elite level talent (top 15), Joe will be lost.

 

[TDIrish27]

Personally I think the 4-3 look helps him. In a 3-4 JS has a OG or a FB or a Wham Player get on him and he isn't good enough to get off blocks and make a play.

 

[hvillebill]

It seems like every year posters feel the need to have a whipping boy on defense, but last I checked there are 11 guys out there. So, any lapses can generally be blamed on more than one person.

JS is 3rd on the team in tackles, only one behind Russell with of course Jaylon being first. Has he missed tackles? Sure, but so have a lot of others.

Give the guy a break.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

^thank you

 

[MTIrish98]

my guess is JS will be fine vs Temple. Against the teams with elite level talent (top 15), Joe will be lost.

I mostly agree with you. He won't be lost against Stanford (the only team left with elite speed), he'll just get picked on as the weak link and will be a step too slow.

 

[perseverare]

bille

No one is picking on JS. I put in the work on this. If you look at it as I have, then offer your comment with the plays and tangible contribution you actually offer as contradiction.
It is hard to evaluate BVG, now that I see that he has such a problem out there.

 

[sshulk]

Onefootdown.com has a very detailed breakdown of Joe Schmidts play vs USC with video and analysis of about 30 plays - far more interesting than arguing about it

 

[perseverare]

well for 1; I disagree on a few of the selected plays that are covered. The 3 yrd pass play he describes as a good play is a completed play that was so because Joe could not get there in time.
The other play was also a completion, about 8 yrds.

Also the references that Joe was out of the play because he was covering some other option happens far to often.

I watched every down; most more than once. I did see the play that Jaylon made the tackle and Joe assisted, beit late.
Joe actually hit the turf!

The number of missed arm tackles where Joe got close to the ball were too infrequent to the p,ays that he was going in the totally wrong direction. I think Joe plays the chalkboard designed play regardless of reading the actual play; this tendency takes him out of the play a majority of the time.
I have never seen so many plays in the center of the field that the ILB was so far from the ball.
There was a play in Clemson where Watson fumbled the snap - botched the handoff and then ran up the center; Joe dropped into coverage! chalkboard!h

AND, ask, why is there an article discussing this? That is the because there is a reason.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

bille

No one is picking on JS. I put in the work on this. If you look at it as I have, then offer your comment with the plays and tangible contribution you actually offer as contradiction.
It is hard to evaluate BVG, now that I see that he has such a problem out there.

You put in the work? What the hell does that mean? What are your credentials as either a player or coach to evaluate anything. Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? I put in the work ... Give me a break. List your expert credentials so we can all view your drivel on your player assessments

 

[cgvr]

You put in the work? What the hell does that mean? What are your credentials as either a player or coach to evaluate anything. Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? I put in the work ... Give me a break. List your expert credentials so we can all view your drivel on your player assessments

Perse's tv can isolate on a player. You guys have cheap TVs.

 

[hvillebill]

You put in the work? What the hell does that mean? What are your credentials as either a player or coach to evaluate anything. Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? I put in the work ... Give me a break. List your expert credentials so we can all view your drivel on your player assessments

I have him on ignore so I don't see the posts.

However, I recall one time when we had a 3-star commit he actually said, "I have to see more film before I decide". Yeah, right.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

I have him on ignore so I don't see the posts.

However, I recall one time when we had a 3-star commit he actually said, "I have to see more film before I decide". Yeah, right.

I hear ya man

 

[perseverare]

why have an informed opinion, when you can shoot from the hip!

 

[DieHard_Irish]

why have an informed opinion, when you can shoot from the hip!

A your credentials are what exactly? I'll go with the coaches, they certainly know more than any keyboard coach on this board, especially you

 

[cgvr]

A your credentials are what exactly? I'll go with the coaches, they certainly know more than any keyboard coach on this board, especially you

One of the claimed hs coaches on this board is hysterical. He's good at cursing though.....and doing laundry....

 

[Get Nasty]

I think what IIO meant is that opposing OCs are "attacking" Jaylon with blockers and scheme to try to take him out of the play so that Schmidt is the guy who is forced to make the play. It makes sense.

Many players take longer than 1 year to get back to 100% after a major injury. Don't diminish that factor either.

For those of you who just want someone else inserted in the line up, do you truly believe the coaches don't know who gives them the best chance to win?!? I'm excited for Morgan and Coney too, but BK plays lots of freshmen and sophomores. If they were ready to play better than Schmidt, they'd be in the game.

Perse, go "big" against the offenses we've faced?!? It was a track meet out there for Clemson and FSU. Another DL would be a huge liability when it comes to matchups.

I agree BUT, coaches play favorites at times even when they are undeserving. Joe seems like someone the coaches want and expect to do well and I can see why. Great story, heart, character, person, etc. He's just not getting it done and the coaches need to stop giving him more and more chances.

 

[Get Nasty]

Joe plays that position as it should be played in lieu of tackling....but the tackling outside of Day is a team wide problem this year.

Let me ask this...if Joe was tackling better would there be any talk regarding his play? I only ask this because at this point I'm inclined to think they stopped going hot at practice once the season started in total fear of more injury.
They can't possibly be proud of the tackling as a whole on this team.

That said there just has to be a reason why the wide spread regression of tackling that has plagued everyone but day.

Everyone knows joe's weaknesses. You can't combine his weaknesses with poor tackling, it's a recipe for disaster at the position. No one is asking joe to be jaylon, but if he can't make the plays that are directly in front of him, then he cant' play.

 

[BGI User 348]

As the OP----- I LOVE Joe...love his story....his commitment....his attitude.......just WANT him to PLAY BETTER! ND needs BIG plays from BIG time players to make PLAYOFFS!

BEAT temple!!!

 

[Irish Grandeur]

Everyone knows joe's weaknesses. You can't combine his weaknesses with poor tackling, it's a recipe for disaster at the position. No one is asking joe to be jaylon, but if he can't make the plays that are directly in front of him, then he cant' play.

Let me preface by saying that I love Schmidt's determination and attitude. That said, it's getting old hearing announcers saying "he slipped through Schmidt's grasp". Call me 'old school' but a MLB punishes RBs for daring to challenge their domain.

 

[Telx1]

Nothing wrong with Perse having his opinion and putting in the time and effort to arrive at same. Pontificating that his opinion is more worthy than others because of this is asinine, and begs for the verbal abuse that follows.
JS has been a disappointment this year. I don't need to review film to know he has missed more than his share of tackles, has been a step or two too slow on numerous runs, and has been blown back several yards on runs up the middle.

 

[88ND]

Everyone knows joe's weaknesses. You can't combine his weaknesses with poor tackling, it's a recipe for disaster at the position. No one is asking joe to be jaylon, but if he can't make the plays that are directly in front of him, then he cant' play.

Missing the point. The point being how is our play from our inside linebackers? It's not a monumental task but a physically trying one. You are gonna bang heads most running plays to take the lead blocker out. It enables your other linebacker s to free to make the tackle.
Joe takes the block on just as he should. He does that perfect to be honest. The drop off is his tackling but that is team wide.

As far as Jaylon......umm I don't want Joe playing like Jaylon within the box because Jaylon in the box is bad. Very bad. He lacks the courage to play that spot correctly. Most people do though.

Jaylon in pursuit is unrivaled in all of football.

In a typical 3 linebacker formation...the outside backers..or non middle backers if the middle guy is doing his job ...then the outside guys will have more tackles because the mLB took the lead blocker out enabling freedom for the other linebackers.

There are times Notre Dane goes into a 2 inside linebackers set and when Jaylon has to take that lead blocker on there is trouble because he refuses to do so. He waits until the blocker engages him 3 yards downfield. He needs to read, and meet that blocker at the point of attack. Joe does this as he should. Jaylon does not!!!

 

[echowaker]

Missing the point. The point being how is our play from our inside linebackers? It's not a monumental task but a physically trying one. You are gonna bang heads most running plays to take the lead blocker out. It enables your other linebacker s to free to make the tackle.
Joe takes the block on just as he should. He does that perfect to be honest. The drop off is his tackling but that is team wide.

As far as Jaylon......umm I don't want Joe playing like Jaylon within the box because Jaylon in the box is bad. Very bad. He lacks the courage to play that spot correctly. Most people do though.

Jaylon in pursuit is unrivaled in all of football.

In a typical 3 linebacker formation...the outside backers..or non middle backers if the middle guy is doing his job ...then the outside guys will have more tackles because the mLB took the lead blocker out enabling freedom for the other linebackers.

There are times Notre Dane goes into a 2 inside linebackers set and when Jaylon has to take that lead blocker on there is trouble because he refuses to do so. He waits until the blocker engages him 3 yards downfield. He needs to read, and meet that blocker at the point of attack. Joe does this as he should. Jaylon does not!!!

"unrivaled in ALL of football " ? I love jaylon but c'mon !

 

[Bodizephax]

Let me preface by saying that I love Schmidt's determination and attitude. That said, it's getting old hearing announcers saying "he slipped through Schmidt's grasp". Call me 'old school' but a MLB punishes RBs for daring to challenge their domain.

Old school linebackers like Harry Carson and Lawrence Taylor breaking Joe Thiesmans leg like a turkey wishbone on thanksgiving dinner !!!!

 

[Irish Grandeur]

Missing the point. The point being how is our play from our inside linebackers? It's not a monumental task but a physically trying one. You are gonna bang heads most running plays to take the lead blocker out. It enables your other linebacker s to free to make the tackle.
Joe takes the block on just as he should. He does that perfect to be honest. The drop off is his tackling but that is team wide.

As far as Jaylon......umm I don't want Joe playing like Jaylon within the box because Jaylon in the box is bad. Very bad. He lacks the courage to play that spot correctly. Most people do though.

Jaylon in pursuit is unrivaled in all of football.

In a typical 3 linebacker formation...the outside backers..or non middle backers if the middle guy is doing his job ...then the outside guys will have more tackles because the mLB took the lead blocker out enabling freedom for the other linebackers.

There are times Notre Dane goes into a 2 inside linebackers set and when Jaylon has to take that lead blocker on there is trouble because he refuses to do so. He waits until the blocker engages him 3 yards downfield. He needs to read, and meet that blocker at the point of attack. Joe does this as he should. Jaylon does not!!!

88, your incessant defense of JS's tackling problem has become a bore. No team in the world brags how their MLB takes on blocks so the rest of the defense can make tackles. Matter of fact, most teams rely on their MLB to lead the team in tackles. Please stop saying JS is doing his job by taking on blocks rather than making tackles - it's absurd!

 

[Bodizephax]

88, your incessant defense of JS's tackling problem has become a bore. No team in the world brags how their MLB takes on blocks so the rest of the defense can make tackles. Matter of fact, most teams rely on their MLB to lead the team in tackles. Please stop saying JS is doing his job by taking on blocks rather than making tackles - it's absurd!

88 thinks that Jaylon Smith is just as much as a problem as Joe S. 14 TACKLES for Jaylon against USC says otherwise !!!!!!

 

[Irish Grandeur]

88 thinks that Jaylon Smith is just as much as a problem as Joe S. 14 TACKLES for Jaylon against USC says otherwise !!!!!!

He'll probably say 10 of Jaylon's 14 were due to JS taking on blocks so Jaylon could make the play...lol. I played some MLB in my day and can never remember a time when the coach said "go out and take on some blocks so the rest of the defense can make the tackle"...can't even type that without laughing.

 

[cgvr]

[/QUOTE]

When Theisman was in the hospital his wife was in the lobby. Cathy Lee Crosby was up in the room as we're his kids.... His wife was asked if she would like to comment. She said, "It's the first time in x years I know where he is and who he is with...."

 

[Bodizephax]

Because it will become worse. Whether you call Joe Schmidt's position Mike, Safety, corner, tackle, etc, you still need someone to line up at LB depth who can play inside the tackle box.

If you have an extra DB doing that, he's not going to do it well. If you put an extra lineman out there, how are you going to matchup against spread formations, other than simply plan man to man every down?

Its not going to happen.

How will the Irish defense survive without the GREAT, SMARTEST LINEBACKER OF ALL TIME, Joe Schmidt, next year???? !! Niles Morgan and Tevon Coney and Asmir Balil were not high and mighty 2 star walkons but highly ranked linebackers pursued by all the great college teams like those in the SEC. Surely they won't be able to play like Joe Schmidt ?!!!
We are doomed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Irish Grandeur]

Setting: locker room after the game.
JS: Yeeepppp, sure took on a lot of blocks for you guys today.
Jaylon: is that a stat?
JS: not yet but if 88 gets his way, I'll be in the hall of fame - Most Blocked Player Ever!

 

[FightingIrish44]

How will the Irish defense survive without the GREAT, SMARTEST LINEBACKER OF ALL TIME, Joe Schmidt, next year???? !! Niles Morgan and Tevon Coney and Asmir Balil were not high and mighty 2 star walkons but highly ranked linebackers pursued by all the great college teams like those in the SEC. Surely they won't be able to play like Joe Schmidt ?!!!
We are doomed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think your sarcasm is a little misplaced. I'm not commenting on Schmidt's play. I'm simply stating that you can't just remove a linebacker from the field and put an extra DL or DB out there. That's all.

 

[Bodizephax]

I think your sarcasm is a little misplaced. I'm not commenting on Schmidt's play. I'm simply stating that you can't just remove a linebacker from the field and put an extra DL or DB out there. That's all.

I think I meant to quote 88s thread not yours? Sorry. I agree with you by the way.

 

[88ND]

Bodie, first of all if you meant to quote me then your comprehensive reading us failing. I'm not the one who suggested Schmidt is the genius out there. What I say for the hundredth time is that he plays his position just fine minus the tackling. Again for the millionth time the tackling issue is a team wide problem. They all suck at tackling minus day. If you were to make a video on how to tackle properly you wouldn't use anyone on the Irish except for day.

I told you this before.....if the inside backer is doing his job.....the outside backers better have more tackles than he. How can they not?

Jaylon in pursuit and closing is second to none in the country. Jaylon in the box is sorry.
Joe in the box taking on blocks is great.....Joe in pursuit is not so good but if your middle backer is having to pursue all the time then there are serious problems.

 

[ndfi65]

And you don't think the coaches are watching the film? Really? He is obviously our best option, and no one this board knows better

Tired of the "watching film content" also. It gets old. Thats what is so frustrating. We see it during the game. Coaches watch film over and over, yet he is still in there. He is not the best option, it has to do with last year when he got hurt the D fell apart. However a lot of guys got hurt. Yes, he understands the D prob better than anyone however you have to get the job done and he isn't. Are you Joes dad or brother? just wondering

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Tired of the "watching film content" also. It gets old. Thats what is so frustrating. We see it during the game. Coaches watch film over and over, yet he is still in there. He is not the best option, it has to do with last year when he got hurt the D fell apart. However a lot of guys got hurt. Yes, he understands the D prob better than anyone however you have to get the job done and he isn't. Are you Joes dad or brother? just wondering

I'm neither. Are you telling me you know the players better than the coaches, or you know and see more than they do. What D1 or NFL team have you coached? All this JS bashing is laughable by a bunch of keyboard wanna bees who really don't know shit when it comes to our players

 

[echowaker]

Tired of the "watching film content" also. It gets old. Thats what is so frustrating. We see it during the game. Coaches watch film over and over, yet he is still in there. He is not the best option, it has to do with last year when he got hurt the D fell apart. However a lot of guys got hurt. Yes, he understands the D prob better than anyone however you have to get the job done and he isn't. Are you Joes dad or brother? just wondering

of course he is the best option. if he wasn't he wouldn't be in there. these coaches livelihoods are at stake. no way are they purposely playing what they consider an inferior player. they play the players they think gives the team the best chance at success. period.