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My "theory" on Schmidt's play

BGI User 348

BGI User 348

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Aug 29, 2003
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I think all of us are disappointed with his play this year given his outstanding season last year. This is my theory born partly of personal experience.

It takes ALOT of energy to provide the verbal leadership/motivation that Joe is doing and has been asked to do this year. IMO this is leaving him "drained" personally both physically & mentally. I think Joe has overachieved at ND and for him to compete at a high level takes ENERGY and concentration......which is getting channeled into his verbal speeches etc.

I think he is doing a great job at that and filling the Captain void left by the others who do not have that ability. BUT...IMO it is letting them perform---Jaylon, Martin, Day---while Joe is not.

Personally I'd like him to "hold back" a little for Temple and let his "talking" on the field suffice.

Thoughts?
 
I personally think he had more de facto responsibility last year. He has better players around him this year, and they know their responsibilities better than last year as well. It's clear he is not playing at the level he achieved last year. He may not be 100% physically recovered, or he may not be 100% mentally ready to play with abandon, or he may have simply overachieved last year. Regardless, We desperately need better play from him or his position the rest of the season.
 
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think vs Temple he will be less 'exposed'; BTW 348: they have cheerleaders for the football team.

The crux of the problem is simple, it is ability. He has limitations and asking him to go beyond his capabilities is futile.

I watched him on every single down vs SC. He was like the ball in an arcade pin ball game. Whexn he wasn't bounced in eight directions, he went in the wrong direction on his own. I thought that this must have been what it would have been like if Rudy (he actually made a play) was a starter in a game for some bizarre reason.
TOS has had weekly threads discussing his play and that prompted me to isolate (focus soley) on him in my re- watching the game. The situation is simply that the level of play and speed of the game was beyond his capabilities.

 
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BGI User 348 said:
I think all of us are disappointed with his play this year given his outstanding season last year. This is my theory born partly of personal experience.

It takes ALOT of energy to provide the verbal leadership/motivation that Joe is doing and has been asked to do this year. IMO this is leaving him "drained" personally both physically & mentally. I think Joe has overachieved at ND and for him to compete at a high level takes ENERGY and concentration......which is getting channeled into his verbal speeches etc.

I think he is doing a great job at that and filling the Captain void left by the others who do not have that ability. BUT...IMO it is letting them perform---Jaylon, Martin, Day---while Joe is not.

Personally I'd like him to "hold back" a little for Temple and let his "talking" on the field suffice.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

He seems slower..... I don't know if he's heavier....never fully recovered.... seems to have lost 1/2 to full step....

OT. We are going to need Schmidt working Mater Dei Fr qb JT Daniels. JT has been turning heads for almost 2 years now. He has an amazing arm and is super smart....

"JT already has more passingJ.T. Daniels of Santa Ana Mater Dei is a 15-year-old freshman who has thrown for as many yards in seven games (1,684) as Matt Barkley did in 12 games as a freshman quarterback for the Monarchs in 2005. Even more stunning is that Daniels has just one interception in 143 passing
attempts."
"There was 290 yards passing and six touchdowns against La Mirada. There was 285 yards passing and four touchdowns against Upland. There was 297 yards passing and three touchdowns aginast Edison. Last week, there was 446 yards passing and four touchdowns against Orange Lutheran. Freshmen aren't supposed to ace test after test."
 
He is invaluable to this team for his leadership alone. But even without that, if there were better options they'd be playing. This discussion is futile. The coaches know our players 1000% more than any keyboard coach on this board. If there were better options, they'd be playing, simple as that. Does anybody on this board seriously think they know more than the coaches; guys who have been coaching at the highest level for decades .... Seriously?
 
wonder too if teams are preparing more for him than they were early in the season last year before his injury.
 
DieHard_Irish said:
He is invaluable to this team for his leadership alone. But even without that, if there were better options they'd be playing. This discussion is futile. The coaches know our players 1000% more than any keyboard coach on this board. If there were better options, they'd be playing, simple as that. Does anybody on this board seriously think they know more than the coaches; guys who have been coaching at the highest level for decades .... Seriously?
Click to expand...

Not calling you out but if there aren't better options then shouldn't that worry us even more than if it's just a matter of the coaches being loyal to the guy? I mean what is that position going to look like when he and (likely) Jaylon are both gone? I love Joe's story and I love what he did for us last year but this year he has struggled and I find it hard to believe that there aren't other guys behind him who don't deserve at least a series or two each game to see what they can do. If every other option is worse then the future doesn't look bright for the BVG defense.
 
Bumpdaddy said:
Not calling you out but if there aren't better options then shouldn't that worry us even more than if it's just a matter of the coaches being loyal to the guy? I mean what is that position going to look like when he and (likely) Jaylon are both gone? I love Joe's story and I love what he did for us last year but this year he has struggled and I find it hard to believe that there aren't other guys behind him who don't deserve at least a series or two each game to see what they can do. If every other option is worse then the future doesn't look bright for the BVG defense.
Click to expand...
Disagree, the future is fine. I'm confident in our coaches and confident Nyles will continue to grow and improve. This isn't the pros where you gave guys sitting around. Nyles is a sophomore, he'll be ready by next season. That said, my overall point is that there is NO ONE on this board that knows the players better than our coaches. If the coaches felt that another player gave us a better chance to win, then that player would be in there.
 
you have separate wheat from the chaff; I refer to posters, those who are objective, from those assigned 'shills' of the many ID's (hopefully the members here are not as dumb as those ID's presume, hopefully also you guys can discern the origin of the authors).
 
BGI User 348 said:
I think all of us are disappointed with his play this year given his outstanding season last year. This is my theory born partly of personal experience.

It takes ALOT of energy to provide the verbal leadership/motivation that Joe is doing and has been asked to do this year. IMO this is leaving him "drained" personally both physically & mentally. I think Joe has overachieved at ND and for him to compete at a high level takes ENERGY and concentration......which is getting channeled into his verbal speeches etc.

I think he is doing a great job at that and filling the Captain void left by the others who do not have that ability. BUT...IMO it is letting them perform---Jaylon, Martin, Day---while Joe is not.

Personally I'd like him to "hold back" a little for Temple and let his "talking" on the field suffice.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Thoughts?........My thought is that 348 is quite possibly the biggest horse's rear end on this forum.....
 
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Telx1 said:
I personally think he had more de facto responsibility last year. He has better players around him this year, and they know their responsibilities better than last year as well. It's clear he is not playing at the level he achieved last year. He may not be 100% physically recovered, or he may not be 100% mentally ready to play with abandon, or he may have simply overachieved last year. Regardless, We desperately need better play from him or his position the rest of the season.
Click to expand...

AMEN!

Oh well......at least I put a few more on "Ignore".
 
He's not the same as he was last year, seems like injury and some fundamentals lacking (proper tackling). I think he'll be fine and I also think if it continues, we'll see Nyles get some snaps. I don't think he'd lose his job, but Nyles may get some time.
 
Guys, no offence to anyone, but in my mind, its fairly obvious what the issue is. We have two inside linebackers on most plays, based on how BVG schemes is defence. He does that so that Jaylon isn't just stuck outside, where teams can run away from him and take him out of the play. With that said, any coach worth his salt, will pick on the weakest link of a defence, by attacking him and going away plays the strength (Jaylon).

The problem isn't that Joe is playing really poorly so much is it's that a much higher percentage of plays are being ran right at him, while teams try to run away from the All American playing beside him. Because there is such a talent disparity between Jaylon and Joe, one often misses plays the other makes.

BVG asks as much (or more) out of his linebackers than any defensive coach whose film I've ever studied. I'm serious. He asks his linebackers to be superheroes in their run fits and responsibilities. When they complete their tough assignments, they're in great position to make plays. When they don't, it's extremely obvious and the defence gets gashed. It's a pro scheme, being ran by college level talent. Jaylon happens to be an NFL-ready talent. Joe never will be. Teams see that on film and they attack him, make him challenge big bodies and make tackles in space. He's 5'11 (maybe 6'0) and 230lbs (maybe less by this point in the season). He has zero athletic room for error. He must be in the right place, at the right time, or he's going to be in tough. Most times he is. The 3-4 times per game he isn't, we're noticing.
 
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IrishInOntario said:
Guys, no offence to anyone, but in my mind, its fairly obvious what the issue is. We have two inside linebackers on most plays, based on how BVG schemes is defence. He does that so that Jaylon isn't just stuck outside, where teams can run away from him and take him out of the play. With that said, any coach worth his salt, will pick on the weakest link of a defence, by attacking him and going away plays the strength (Jaylon).

The problem isn't that Joe is playing really poorly so much is it's that a much higher percentage of plays are being ran right at him, while teams try to run away from the All American playing beside him. Because there is such a talent disparity between Jaylon and Joe, one often misses plays the other makes.

BVG asks as much (or more) out of his linebackers than any defensive coach whose film I've ever studied. I'm serious. He asks his linebackers to be superheroes in their run fits and responsibilities. When they complete their tough assignments, they're in great position to make plays. When they don't, it's extremely obvious and the defence gets gashed. It's a pro scheme, being ran by college level talent. Jaylon happens to be an NFL-ready talent. Joe never will be. Teams see that on film and they attack him, make him challenge big bodies and make tackles in space. He's 5'11 (maybe 6'0) and 230lbs (maybe less by this point in the season). He has zero athletic room for error. He must be in the right place, at the right time, or he's going to be in tough. Most times he is. The 3-4 times per game he isn't, we're noticing.
Click to expand...

Why can't they give Nyles Morgan a chance?
 
Because while of how mentally tough this scheme is, as I was saying previously. Here is the thing. Nyles might make a couple plays where you say "wow", but if Joe isn't fitting 3-4 plays per game properly and we're noticing, imagine what will happen when Nyles (who is behind Joe in terms of scheme knowledge and how to lineup) makes 7-8 mistakes.

One of the reasons that I much preferred Diaco's scheme is it relied on physically imposing players with athleticism, and fundamental play, rather than NFL level intelligence and scheme understanding. Essentially, in Diaco's defence as soon as you were big and strong enough to play, you could.
 
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BGI User 348 said:
I think all of us are disappointed with his play this year given his outstanding season last year. This is my theory born partly of personal experience.

It takes ALOT of energy to provide the verbal leadership/motivation that Joe is doing and has been asked to do this year. IMO this is leaving him "drained" personally both physically & mentally. I think Joe has overachieved at ND and for him to compete at a high level takes ENERGY and concentration......which is getting channeled into his verbal speeches etc.

I think he is doing a great job at that and filling the Captain void left by the others who do not have that ability. BUT...IMO it is letting them perform---Jaylon, Martin, Day---while Joe is not.

Personally I'd like him to "hold back" a little for Temple and let his "talking" on the field suffice.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Bgi you and I usually agree on things....having said that I'm not sure what is so crazy this year with people and Joe saying he sucks compared to last.
Joe's play is not fine....but its no different whatsoever to the rest of our players who just can't ...or better yet.....refuse to tackle proper.
Joe still takes out the lead blocker while Jaylon waits until the back is in his lap...then makes a move on him and takes off. That is the same Joe as last year to me and sadly the same Jaylon.
This year though outside of Day I have no idea why everyone is tackling like garbage. Its downright atrocious at times.
 
perseverare said:
think vs Temple he will be less 'exposed'; BTW 348: they have cheerleaders for the football team.

The crux of the problem is simple, it is ability. He has limitations and asking him to go beyond his capabilities is futile.

I watched him on every single down vs SC. He was like the ball in an arcade pin ball game. Whexn he wasn't bounced in eight directions, he went in the wrong direction on his own. I thought that this must have been what it would have been like if Rudy (he actually made a play) was a starter in a game for some bizarre reason.
TOS has had weekly threads discussing his play and that prompted me to isolate (focus soley) on him in my re- watching the game. The situation is simply that the level of play and speed of the game was beyond his capabilities.

View embedded media
Click to expand...
This. He is so bad he should be on bench
 
DieHard_Irish said:
He is invaluable to this team for his leadership alone. But even without that, if there were better options they'd be playing. This discussion is futile. The coaches know our players 1000% more than any keyboard coach on this board. If there were better options, they'd be playing, simple as that. Does anybody on this board seriously think they know more than the coaches; guys who have been coaching at the highest level for decades .... Seriously?
Click to expand...
Tired of hearing that the coaches know players better than fans. No shit. We are going by what we see during the games and he is not getting it done. Slow, blocked off the ball, and misses a ton of tackles.
 
88ND said:
Bgi you and I usually agree on things....having said that I'm not sure what is so crazy this year with people and Joe saying he sucks compared to last.
Joe's play is not fine....but its no different whatsoever to the rest of our players who just can't ...or better yet.....refuse to tackle proper.
Joe still takes out the lead blocker while Jaylon waits until the back is in his lap...then makes a move on him and takes off. That is the same Joe as last year to me and sadly the same Jaylon.
This year though outside of Day I have no idea why everyone is tackling like garbage. Its downright atrocious at times.
Click to expand...


88-----I agree it appears MANY are missing tackles. On other posts I mention Jaylon as well. He is especially disappointing when he is on the edge and does not disengage fast enough to make a no gain tackle....even though he can recover and make one for a 5 yd gain----as he did vs socal. Some of the best-surest tackles last game were by CAGE and ROCHELL.

My above post was only meant to suggest a "mental" reason for Joe. Last year we noticed his positive plays and his over-achieving----which raised our expectations this season on his return. Alot more pressure. IIO is way smarter than me so I'll defer to him on scheme. If that is THE issue then BK needs to tell BVG to implement "KISS" over the bye.
 
IrishInOntario said:
Guys, no offence to anyone, but in my mind, its fairly obvious what the issue is. We have two inside linebackers on most plays, based on how BVG schemes is defence. He does that so that Jaylon isn't just stuck outside, where teams can run away from him and take him out of the play. With that said, any coach worth his salt, will pick on the weakest link of a defence, by attacking him and going away plays the strength (Jaylon).

The problem isn't that Joe is playing really poorly so much is it's that a much higher percentage of plays are being ran right at him, while teams try to run away from the All American playing beside him. Because there is such a talent disparity between Jaylon and Joe, one often misses plays the other makes.

BVG asks as much (or more) out of his linebackers than any defensive coach whose film I've ever studied. I'm serious. He asks his linebackers to be superheroes in their run fits and responsibilities. When they complete their tough assignments, they're in great position to make plays. When they don't, it's extremely obvious and the defence gets gashed. It's a pro scheme, being ran by college level talent. Jaylon happens to be an NFL-ready talent. Joe never will be. Teams see that on film and they attack him, make him challenge big bodies and make tackles in space. He's 5'11 (maybe 6'0) and 230lbs (maybe less by this point in the season). He has zero athletic room for error. He must be in the right place, at the right time, or he's going to be in tough. Most times he is. The 3-4 times per game he isn't, we're noticing.
Click to expand...


IIO

I guess that 3-4 times you mentioned, confirms you are one of the guys NOT reviewing the vid.
Most often, or a great propensity of the time, he is swatted off the play and when not he over runs the play.
If he gets contact with a ball carrier it is an arm that brushes and is pushed aside.For JS to makeca tackle the ball carrier needs to run directly to or into him.
Watching the SC game I have never seen less productive ILB play at ND - ever.

Teams are not attacking JS, they are disregarding him; they plan as if ND had 10 defenders. They do.

Started reviewing the Clemson game isolating on JS. Through 1st Q and it is more of the same.
JS has no apparent impact on a single play; unless his impact is thay he was NOT involved in the play.
 
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IrishInOntario said:
Guys, no offence to anyone, but in my mind, its fairly obvious what the issue is. We have two inside linebackers on most plays, based on how BVG schemes is defence. He does that so that Jaylon isn't just stuck outside, where teams can run away from him and take him out of the play. With that said, any coach worth his salt, will pick on the weakest link of a defence, by attacking him and going away plays the strength (Jaylon).

The problem isn't that Joe is playing really poorly so much is it's that a much higher percentage of plays are being ran right at him, while teams try to run away from the All American playing beside him. Because there is such a talent disparity between Jaylon and Joe, one often misses plays the other makes.

BVG asks as much (or more) out of his linebackers than any defensive coach whose film I've ever studied. I'm serious. He asks his linebackers to be superheroes in their run fits and responsibilities. When they complete their tough assignments, they're in great position to make plays. When they don't, it's extremely obvious and the defence gets gashed. It's a pro scheme, being ran by college level talent. Jaylon happens to be an NFL-ready talent. Joe never will be. Teams see that on film and they attack him, make him challenge big bodies and make tackles in space. He's 5'11 (maybe 6'0) and 230lbs (maybe less by this point in the season). He has zero athletic room for error. He must be in the right place, at the right time, or he's going to be in tough. Most times he is. The 3-4 times per game he isn't, we're noticing.
Click to expand...

Any specific examples of asking them to be super heroes in their run fits? I only noticed one play vs. USC where his alignment made it tough. Vs. Navy and Georgia Tech, Schmidt had a lot to handle, but that was an overall defensive schematic issue; not a matter of asking a lot of him. I don't really agree with your assessment, and I'm someone who believes his scheme is too complicated.

I think the issue with the defense is bad tackling and the scheme being too multiple, which means more busted assignments and less time to focus on fundamentals.
 
IrishInOntario said:
Because while of how mentally tough this scheme is, as I was saying previously. Here is the thing. Nyles might make a couple plays where you say "wow", but if Joe isn't fitting 3-4 plays per game properly and we're noticing, imagine what will happen when Nyles (who is behind Joe in terms of scheme knowledge and how to lineup) makes 7-8 mistakes.

One of the reasons that I much preferred Diaco's scheme is it relied on physically imposing players with athleticism, and fundamental play, rather than NFL level intelligence and scheme understanding. Essentially, in Diaco's defence as soon as you were big and strong enough to play, you could.
Click to expand...
My problem is not only is he not fitting his run gaps, but when he does fit them or when he does blitz and get to the QB he is missing his tackle at an alarming rate. Combining the two results in ND giving up some huge plays that should be stuffed by a solid MLB.
 
Apparently we don't have anybody better - Joe says he loves Crab Legs during the show - sounds like a Florida State guy.
 
ndfi65 said:
Tired of hearing that the coaches know players better than fans. No shit. We are going by what we see during the games and he is not getting it done. Slow, blocked off the ball, and misses a ton of tackles.
Click to expand...
And you don't think the coaches are watching the film? Really? He is obviously our best option, and no one this board knows better
 
if the coaches are watching the film and still think that he is the best option at LB then the coaches should put in another DL! If forca full Q in driving rain the ILB does not influence a single play - and in my viewing Incredibly I did not see a single play that that ILB ever was on the turf a single time! (caveat: I missed 1 play at the end of the Q - but it was play on the edge.

Do we have former LB'r on the forum? Can they share what the impact of having lack of production like this and how it affects the overall D.

(Kelly personaly recruited Morgan, the kid must have some talent! and just tell him to go in n knock some one down; better than nothing!)
 
perseverare said:
if the coaches are watching the film and still think that he is the best option at LB then the coaches should put in another DL! If forca full Q in driving rain the ILB does not influence a single play - and in my viewing Incredibly I did not see a single play that that ILB ever was on the turf a single time! (caveat: I missed 1 play at the end of the Q - but it was play on the edge.

Do we have former LB'r on the forum? Can they share what the impact of having lack of production like this and how it affects the overall D.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but your post isn't entirely clear to me. What are you saying in your first paragraph? No ILB on the turf? What's that mean?

I'm seriously just trying to understand.
 
perseverare said:
he never was off his feet! can you play a Q of LB football and not go down 1 time?
Click to expand...

Seems unlikely, but not sure why its necessary for him to get dirty. If the other team is throwing the ball, and you're not getting in on the tackle, it seems that you wouldn't have much reason to be on the ground at all.
 
I think what IIO meant is that opposing OCs are "attacking" Jaylon with blockers and scheme to try to take him out of the play so that Schmidt is the guy who is forced to make the play. It makes sense.

Many players take longer than 1 year to get back to 100% after a major injury. Don't diminish that factor either.

For those of you who just want someone else inserted in the line up, do you truly believe the coaches don't know who gives them the best chance to win?!? I'm excited for Morgan and Coney too, but BK plays lots of freshmen and sophomores. If they were ready to play better than Schmidt, they'd be in the game.

Perse, go "big" against the offenses we've faced?!? It was a track meet out there for Clemson and FSU. Another DL would be a huge liability when it comes to matchups.
 
ok; but a lot of unlikely strung together ... opens a few eyes (but not all)
I am actually sorry that I read the damned thread earlier in the week that started me reviewing the videos of the games. Ignorance is bliss! Ask Bodi!

44:
watch the last play of the 1st Q of Clemson, a busted handoff by Watson /Rb right up the middle,
And yet the ILBer is not in on the play. An obvious run, up the middle and yet....
 
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MTIrish98 said:
I think what IIO meant is that opposing OCs are "attacking" Jaylon with blockers and scheme to try to take him out of the play so that Schmidt is the guy who is forced to make the play. It makes sense.

Many players take longer than 1 year to get back to 100% after a major injury. Don't diminish that factor either.

For those of you who just want someone else inserted in the line up, do you truly believe the coaches don't know who gives them the best chance to win?!? I'm excited for Morgan and Coney too, but BK plays lots of freshmen and sophomores. If they were ready to play better than Schmidt, they'd be in the game.

Perse, go "big" against the offenses we've faced?!? It was a track meet out there for Clemson and FSU. Another DL would be a huge liability when it comes to matchups.
Click to expand...


MT
but if you add a DL (or add a DB) where there is no production - how can that be worse?

I have said I think JS is playing injured and way too slow now off the injury.
 
perseverare said:
he never was off his feet! can you play a Q of LB football and not go down 1 time?
Click to expand...
This statement alone demonstrate how little you know about football. As I said early in the thread, clearly JS gives us our best chance to win, or he would be replaced. Our coaches have decades of experience at the highest level. I trust they know more than the people on this board who say "I viewed the tape"
 
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