Mizzou coach says Notre Dame shouldn't be eligible for College Football Playoff

[NDEwing18]

Right. But I think they should have to join a conf. to get into a playoff. Just like you have to go to med school if you want to become a doctor. I believe in fair play. And I believe that being an independent is a big advantage. And to me, sports about fair play. And yes, just because other teams do the 4 true away games thing does not mean that I agree with it. It is also unfair. Why don't you just cut the hamstrings of the opposing teams when you play them? If it could be legal, you should do it. Right?

And why? Because it makes you money. Almost every team sport has a conference that they play in. From high school on up. ND should be in one too.

No one forced other teams to join conference. Teams joined conferences for their own advantage. There's nothing "unfair" about it. If you don't like it, then suggest that your team leave your conference.

If you're going to criticize ND's "unfair advantages" and use the "4 true away game" example as a reason, you should probably look to see if any conference teams are doing it.

If being an independent is such a "big advantage", then why aren't more teams going independent?

Your example of hamstring cutting is a poor attempt at an analogy.

 

[NDEwing18]

Not entirely accurate. The Cal-Oregon was a home game for Cal. They just played it in the 49ers new stadium because it was the opening event for that stadium. The ticket allotment still went to Cal as a home game.

Same thing goes when we play teams at neutral sites. The gentleman referred to having "4 true away games". if you play at the 49ers new stadium, that's not a true away game.

 

[Upperrwestsidetrojan]

No one forced other teams to join conference. Teams joined conferences for their own advantage. There's nothing "unfair" about it. If you don't like it, then suggest that your team leave your conference.

If you're going to criticize ND's "unfair advantages" and use the "4 true away game" example as a reason, you should probably look to see if any conference teams are doing it.

If being an independent is such a "big advantage", then why aren't more teams going independent?

Your example of hamstring cutting is a poor attempt at an analogy.

To me, nd should conform. If the norm was that every team was an independent, I might agree with you. But nd is the black sheep. And it is definitely unfair that nd is not in a conf. I was so glad last yr when they penalized tcu and baylor for having a weak non cof schedule and no conf. champ game. The committee actually said so. Nothing is perfect, but I do think it much more fair for nd plays in real conf. Team sports are played in conferences at all levels. I can explain the reasons why it is much tougher to play in a conf. if you like. But it seems pointless. See you in south bend. It should be a tight game this year.

 

[topdecktiger]

Same thing goes when we play teams at neutral sites. The gentleman referred to having "4 true away games". if you play at the 49ers new stadium, that's not a true away game.

It's not the same thing. Notre Dame's neutral site games are Notre Dame home games that Notre Dame just moves to a different location. Notre Dame has control of them.

The point of an away game is that the other team has its crowd there. You are playing in the other team's environment. When Oregon played Cal in the 49ers' stadium, Cal got 90% of the tickets, same as if the game had been played at Berkeley.

 

[NDEwing18]

It's not the same thing. Notre Dame's neutral site games are Notre Dame home games that Notre Dame just moves to a different location. Notre Dame has control of them.

The point of an away game is that the other team has its crowd there. You are playing in the other team's environment. When Oregon played Cal in the 49ers' stadium, Cal got 90% of the tickets, same as if the game had been played at Berkeley.

If I'm an opponent, I'd rather play Cal at a stadium that's not theirs, rather than wherever Cal plays its home games.

You are speaking of the Shamrock Series games. ND plays other "neutral" site games that are home games for their opponents.

 

[NDEwing18]

To me, nd should conform. If the norm was that every team was an independent, I might agree with you. But nd is the black sheep. And it is definitely unfair that nd is not in a conf. I was so glad last yr when they penalized tcu and baylor for having a weak non cof schedule and no conf. champ game. The committee actually said so. Nothing is perfect, but I do think it much more fair for nd plays in real conf. Team sports are played in conferences at all levels. I can explain the reasons why it is much tougher to play in a conf. if you like. But it seems pointless. See you in south bend. It should be a tight game this year.

Then all teams in conferences should share revenue so that every D-1 school gets an equal portion of TV revenue. Or are you only concerned about "fairness" when it disadvantages you?

 

[NDSMC78]

To me, nd should conform. If the norm was that every team was an independent, I might agree with you. But nd is the black sheep. And it is definitely unfair that nd is not in a conf. I was so glad last yr when they penalized tcu and baylor for having a weak non cof schedule and no conf. champ game. The committee actually said so. Nothing is perfect, but I do think it much more fair for nd plays in real conf. Team sports are played in conferences at all levels. I can explain the reasons why it is much tougher to play in a conf. if you like. But it seems pointless. See you in south bend. It should be a tight game this year.

Yeah, "because I said so" is always a good reason for doing something.
Your claim that "it is much tougher to play in a conference" is demonstrably false. Every year, ND's SOS is better than most of the Power 5 conference schools. You can take Sagarin's SOS ratings or anyone else's you want to select--ND's SOS is usally one of the hardest, but virtually always in the top 30.
Anyone else see the irony of a Trojan fan suggesting that ND is the "black sheep"? This is from a guy whose school has been on probation 4-5 times over the last 50 years. Black sheep indeed.

 

[Classic Irish]

If I'm an opponent, I'd rather play Cal at a stadium that's not theirs, rather than wherever Cal plays its home games.

You are speaking of the Shamrock Series games. ND plays other "neutral" site games that are home games for their opponents.

Exactly. When Navy hosts ND every other year, it's at a neutral site---not in Annapolis.

 

[Upperrwestsidetrojan]

Then all teams in conferences should share revenue so that every D-1 school gets an equal portion of TV revenue. Or are you only concerned about "fairness" when it disadvantages you?

I don't care how they work out the business side of it. Every other team does it.

 

[Upperrwestsidetrojan]

Yeah, "because I said so" is always a good reason for doing something.
Your claim that "it is much tougher to play in a conference" is demonstrably false. Every year, ND's SOS is better than most of the Power 5 conference schools. You can take Sagarin's SOS ratings or anyone else's you want to select--ND's SOS is usally one of the hardest, but virtually always in the top 30.
Anyone else see the irony of a Trojan fan suggesting that ND is the "black sheep"? This is from a guy whose school has been on probation 4-5 times over the last 50 years. Black sheep indeed.

Probation has nothing to do with this argument. I don't think any of rating services give enough weight to playing away games. A game can be completely different away from home. Huge disadvantage. So 4 true away games does not cut it. Playing a good list of opponents mostly at home is not that big of a deal. ND did not play a true away game until their 7th game last yr. That is absurd. To not have to play at the other teams stadium until game 7 is unfair. So I think nd gets a lot credit for their schedule that is undeserved.

 

[NDSMC78]

I don't care how they work out the business side of it. Every other team does it.

Every other team does not do it. BYU is an independent. Army is an independent.

 

[topdecktiger]

If I'm an opponent, I'd rather play Cal at a stadium that's not theirs, rather than wherever Cal plays its home games.

You are speaking of the Shamrock Series games. ND plays other "neutral" site games that are home games for their opponents.

Still not the same thing. Let's be honest. What you did was just look up the schedules from last year, saw that the Cal game wasn't in Berkeley, and assumed it was a neutral site game.

Not really. Notre Dame did play 2 games (not counting the Shamrock Series) like that last year. However, they only played two other such game since 2009. The rest were Shamrock Series games.

 

[Upperrwestsidetrojan]

Every other team does not do it. BYU is an independent. Army is an independent.

ok. you got me.

 

[NDSMC78]

Probation has nothing to do with this argument. I don't think any of rating services give enough weight to playing away games. A game can be completely different away from home. Huge disadvantage. So 4 true away games does not cut it. Playing a good list of opponents mostly at home is not that big of a deal. ND did not play a true away game until their 7th game last yr. That is absurd. To not have to play at the other teams stadium until game 7 is unfair. So I think nd gets a lot credit for their schedule that is undeserved.

You are a damned fool. First you call ND "black sheep" and now you say that probation has nothing to do with this argument. Sorry, pal, you raised the issue. It's now on the table. I think we all realize who the real black sheep is.
Your entire argument is premised on your personal beliefs about what is "fair" and what you think is "deserved."
As I said before, "because I said so" is a terrible reason to do anything. And you basically are presenting an argument based upon nothing but your personal biases.

 

[NDSMC78]

ok. you got me.

Not hard to do. You have shown a penchant for shooting your mouth off without knowing what you are talking about.

 

[NDEwing18]

Still not the same thing. Let's be honest. What you did was just look up the schedules from last year, saw that the Cal game wasn't in Berkeley, and assumed it was a neutral site game.

Not really. Notre Dame did play 2 games (not counting the Shamrock Series) like that last year. However, they only played two other such game since 2009. The rest were Shamrock Series games.

No - I figured that it was a safe assumption that it was for the benefit of Cal, similar to the fact that we played Syracuse at Met Life Stadium. However, if the OP I responded to isn't calling that a "true away game", then I'm not considering that Oregon/Cal game any different.

 

[NDEwing18]

I don't care how they work out the business side of it. Every other team does it.

Ah, I see - so when the NFL and college football have a difference that is supposedly "disadvantageous" to your program - such as being in a conference or being independent - then ND should conform to NFL standards and "be equal".

However, when the NFL and college football have a different that is advantageous to your program - such as sharing money - then who cares about doing the same thing as the NFL.

Thank you for showing the clear hypocrisy in your argument.

 

[Upperrwestsidetrojan]

Not hard to do. You have shown a penchant for shooting your mouth off without knowing what you are talking about.

yes thats me.

 

[Upperrwestsidetrojan]

Ah, I see - so when the NFL and college football have a difference that is supposedly "disadvantageous" to your program - such as being in a conference or being independent - then ND should conform to NFL standards and "be equal".

However, when the NFL and college football have a different that is advantageous to your program - such as sharing money - then who cares about doing the same thing as the NFL.

Thank you for showing the clear hypocrisy in your argument.

When did I bring up the nfl? And it has nothing do with usc. I have a grad degree from a school that you hold dear to your heart. I say the same things about usc if I think they are doing something wrong. And like I said, ND can figure out a way to work out the business end if it. Other team do so ND can too. But until they join a conf. I think they deserved be to banned from the playoff picture until they conform. That probably won't happen. So you have nothing to worry about it. And you proved my point. It is all about making money. Not doing what is right for the sport. You could simply say, "Who cares about doing the right thing and being fair. If ND makes a ton of money out of the system they have, I am happy."

I am out of here. See you in south bend.

 

[NDSMC78]

When did I bring up the nfl? And it has nothing do with usc. I have a grad degree from a school that you hold dear to your heart. I say the same things about usc if I think they are doing something wrong. And like I said, ND can figure out a way to work out the business end if it. Other team do so ND can too. But until they join a conf. I think they deserved be to banned from the playoff picture until they conform. That probably won't happen. So you have nothing to worry about it. And you proved my point. It is all about making money. Not doing what is right for the sport. You could simply say, "Who cares about doing the right thing and being fair. If ND makes a ton of money out of the system they have, I am happy."

I am out of here. See you in south bend.

I can see why you are "out of here." You are getting your tail kicked. This post is so wrong is so many ways. ND should "conform" to your vision of how the NCAA should be? No kidding. Any other fiats you wish to decree?
"Not doing what is right for the sport?" A large part of the popularity of CFB is as a result of ND.
It's not all about money. ND would make more money in the Big 10. If you followed the game at all, you would know that.
Really a poorly reasoned post.

 

[cgvr]

When did I bring up the nfl? And it has nothing do with usc. I have a grad degree from a school that you hold dear to your heart. I say the same things about usc if I think they are doing something wrong. And like I said, ND can figure out a way to work out the business end if it. Other team do so ND can too. But until they join a conf. I think they deserved be to banned from the playoff picture until they conform. That probably won't happen. So you have nothing to worry about it. And you proved my point. It is all about making money. Not doing what is right for the sport. You could simply say, "Who cares about doing the right thing and being fair. If ND makes a ton of money out of the system they have, I am happy."

I am out of here. See you in south bend.

Why should we "regionalize" a global brand? We enjoy NY Yankees type status in the world of college football. That reputation was built by tons of blood, sweat and football excellence. Let me paraphrase Reggie Jackson, "we are the straw that stirs the cfb drink". Like it or not....
The ACC was darn lucky to get the football commitment we gave them.

 

[IrishBlooded]

To me, nd should conform. If the norm was that every team was an independent, I might agree with you. But nd is the black sheep. And it is definitely unfair that nd is not in a conf. I was so glad last yr when they penalized tcu and baylor for having a weak non cof schedule and no conf. champ game. The committee actually said so. Nothing is perfect, but I do think it much more fair for nd plays in real conf. Team sports are played in conferences at all levels. I can explain the reasons why it is much tougher to play in a conf. if you like. But it seems pointless. See you in south bend. It should be a tight game this year.

How is ND's scheduling formula unfair? I just dont' get the logic here. Seems like a personal preference and not a logical one. The end of last season ND ranked at 31st hardest schedule.

That was a harder ranked schedule than Arizona whom won the PAC south and played Oregon twice in the same season right?

 

[Irishjohn68]

Right. But I think they should have to join a conf. to get into a playoff. Just like you have to go to med school if you want to become a doctor. I believe in fair play. And I believe that being an independent is a big advantage. And to me, sports about fair play. And yes, just because other teams do the 4 true away games thing does not mean that I agree with it. It is also unfair. Why don't you just cut the hamstrings of the opposing teams when you play them? If it could be legal, you should do it. Right?

And why? Because it makes you money. Almost every team sport has a conference that they play in. From high school on up. ND should be in one too.

Well, ND has not won a NC is 25+ years, so saying being a independent is an advantage is just wrong.

 

[NDEwing18]

When did I bring up the nfl? And it has nothing do with usc. I have a grad degree from a school that you hold dear to your heart. I say the same things about usc if I think they are doing something wrong. And like I said, ND can figure out a way to work out the business end if it. Other team do so ND can too. But until they join a conf. I think they deserved be to banned from the playoff picture until they conform. That probably won't happen. So you have nothing to worry about it. And you proved my point. It is all about making money. Not doing what is right for the sport. You could simply say, "Who cares about doing the right thing and being fair. If ND makes a ton of money out of the system they have, I am happy."

I am out of here. See you in south bend.

From earlier:

- "And to me, sports about fair play."
- "Almost every team sport has a conference that they play in."

Again, so you are for "fair play" when you think you're being disadvantaged, but not for "fair play" when it's your advantage.

 

[topdecktiger]

No - I figured that it was a safe assumption that it was for the benefit of Cal, similar to the fact that we played Syracuse at Met Life Stadium. However, if the OP I responded to isn't calling that a "true away game", then I'm not considering that Oregon/Cal game any different.

The other poster made a generic statement about "4 true road games per year." He didn't get down to the specifics of any single game.

If you look at it that way, Notre Dame only had 3 road games in the other team's stadium: Florida St, Arizona St, and Southern Cal. Purdue, Syracuse, and Navy were all at different sites. If you are trying to say that the other poster meant 4 true road games for 2014, then one of the Purdue/Syracuse/Navy games would have to count.

 

[IRISHJD98]

Teams are increasingly seeing the financial upside to scheduling neutral site games. There were 19 regular season neutral site games last year. I suspect it will become more and more common.

The Syracuse game last year was part of an agreement Syracuse entered into Met Life, which it called the Met Life series.

 

[mirer03]

I do not think conference affiliation should play into the playoff at all. I think Notre Dame potentially takes a hit each year due to the lack of a conference title game and I think that is fair, as it is Notre Dames choice not to participate in one. In the same discussion however, I think that only division 1 games should count towards the CFP ranking. If a college team decides to play a non conference lower division game then it should not count towards the playoffs as it only fluffs their schedule.

 

[IrishBlooded]

Again, if the other conferences (and fans of those conferences) are so worried about ND 'conforming' to a standard that everyone else adheres to. Than shouldn't they be equally as worried about having a standard they themselves follow.

For instance looking at the P5 conferences: 3 play 8 game conference schedules (soon to be 2 of them), 1 plays a 9 game schedule (soon to be 2), 1 plays a roundrobin.

Of those 5 conferences more than 99% of the teams represented play at least 1 FCS opponent a year. And more than 50% play 2.

All of them have different ways of selecting a conference champion.

All of them have different rules for amount and type of x-divisional opponents.

So if you want ND to conform to the norm. Shouldn't you first declare what that is?

make all conferences the same size
make all conferences play the same amount of conference games
make all conferences have the same rules for x-divisional games
create rules for playing lower division teams (As Mizzou's coach put it) there aren't any Indy's in the NFL. But there also isn't any NFL teams allowed to play a semi-pro team and have it count for a W.
make all conferences have a CCG

Modify the playoff rule to not allow a team into the playoff that hasn't A) won a conference championship game. B) Don't allow in a team that played an FCS opponent that year to earn an extra BYE week.

That forces ND to a conference, while saying that you are crowning a champion based on equal scheduling, and equal challenge.

 

[IRISHJD98]

Would Pinkel be cool with getting shut out of the playoff if Mizzou went unbeaten in the regular season but lost a conference championship game?

I'd guess some of those SEC coaches would like to see 2 SEC teams in the playoffs if they were two of the top 4 teams in the country.

 

[mirer03]

When talking about the fairness of road schedules some realities need to be considered...

The trend is to play as many games close to home as possible to keep players on a routine schedule.

How many SEC teams play a road out of conference game?
-from 2008 to 2014 the average number a true road non conference game per SEC team is around .6 per year (per http://lighttheu.com/2014/05/pac-12-vs-sec-non-conference-road-scheduling/). Or one every two years

When was the last time Florida played an out of conference game outside of the state of Florida?

- 1991

The greatest injustice is that people have accepted that the SEC in conference schedule is an excuse to play a mid season lower division game AND to not have to play outside the south. The advantage is more time at home, easier to adjust to class schedules (cough), and more rest and rehab time.

MOST TRAVEL MILEAGE FOR SEC TEAMS IN 2014

• Mizzou: 7,578 - 1st
• Texas A&M: 6,438
• Arkansas: 4,750
• Georgia: 4,490 - 3rd
• Kentucky: 4,456
• LSU: 4,359
• Tennessee: 3,908
• Ole Miss: 3,808 - 3rd
• Auburn: 3,706
• Florida: 3,598 - 2nd
• South Carolina: 3,376
• Alabama: 3,160 - 1st
• Vanderbilt: 2,488
• Mississippi St.: 2,410 - 2nd

Travel mileage for Notre Dame in 2014 = 6280 miles

Lets expand this a little as the trend is to play as many localized teams as possible out of conference...

Travel Mileage for #1 Ohio State = 2151
Travel Mileage for #2 Oregon = 2664
Total mileage for #3TCU = im not bothering they played two games outside of texas.
Travel Mileage for #4 Alabama = 3160

Missou being an obvious outlier due to having such long travel times in conference and being placed in the SEC east (Sucks for them) there does seem to be a correlation at least in 2014 to the miles traveled and success. If I was Missou I would be bitching a lot more about being stuck in the east then Notre Dame joining a conference.

Neutral Site Games for Notre Dame are generally in front of friendly crowds or at the worst in front of a 50-50 split. If you are going to go ont he road like Notre Dame does to stay in the minds of recruits, the neural site games are the way to go.

 

[twalsh]

Would Pinkel be cool with getting shut out of the playoff if Mizzou went unbeaten in the regular season but lost a conference championship game?

I'd guess some of those SEC coaches would like to see 2 SEC teams in the playoffs if they were two of the top 4 teams in the country.

Or would he be OK with an SEC team being 11-1, not winning its division, and being eliminated from playoff contention because they didn't play 13 games?

 

[cgvr]

Or would he be OK with an SEC team being 11-1, not winning its division, and being eliminated from playoff contention because they didn't play 13 games?

PS Someone should ask pinkel the value Missouri places on scheduling D 1 AA teams:

(McNeese State, Western Illinois, Southeastern Louisiana, Murray State, South Dakota State....)

Obviously, Mo. and many others pad their wins by scheduling lower tier programs.

 

[IRISHJD98]

When talking about the fairness of road schedules some realities need to be considered...

The trend is to play as many games close to home as possible to keep players on a routine schedule.

I'm not sure that's the reason. For example some conferences, like the Big 10, limit where neutral site games can be played because they don't want to lose the TV revenue by having a game played outside their regional TV umbrella.