ADVERTISEMENT

Midseason Thoughts on ND football 2017 (long)

hunchback_of_nd

I've posted how many times?
Sep 14, 2005
13,720
813
113
In fairness, not everything I say in this thread is going to be positive. I think a well written thread considers all the positives and negatives when evaluating the team and this is my mid term evaluation. TIFWIW I'm no football guru just some jackhole that has watched ND football since 1985.

I remember BGI last year when things were melting down and the jubilation the fan base exhibited when Brian VanGorder was let go. My point of view then was that his firing was a step in the right direction, but by all accounts the team had a long ways to go system wide, not just on defense. Hats off to Brian Kelly for recognizing this and cleaning house of almost the entire coaching staff and putting systems and people in positions where significant changes could occur.

One huge step in the right direction in 2017 came in not having a catastrophic offseason riddled with season ending injuries or mass suspensions. The frozen five, having car loads of upperclassmen arrested for guns and drugs, starting qb's suspended for cheating on term papers, it all adds up. Losses on the field derail recruiting, especially in light of how competition regionally has tightened up with the resurgence of Michigan and Ohio State. Even before that, the team couldn't buy a break with starting lineups obliterated in 2014 by unprecedented season ending-injuries. To finally have a quiet offseason - oh its so nice, so nice. Its my sincere wish that quiet prevails and wins accumulate, providing a sense of consistency in recruiting where the ball can get rolling and stay that way.

Strength and conditioning. I was at the Clemson/ VT game last weekend and when I saw the size discrepancy Dabo Sweeney's players had over the Hokies when they took the field to kick off it reminded me a lot of the national championship game we played against Alabama and how those Crimson Tide players towered over us. Small and slow does not win football games, and I'm happy that it looks as if the ship is starting to head in the right direction. Its one thing to make the playoffs in this league, but once you get there your boys had better have the beef to compete. By the way, Clemson destroyed VT. It really looked like not even close in the one-on-one matchups.

The offense. God love it, Brian Kelly has been the Head Coach/ pseudo Offense Coordinator thus far for the Irish and as much as the numbers support the case that the team has looked good in terms of scoring and yards gained, the one criticism I've been making is how much the production has tended to be too one-dimensional and too qb-centric. The good teams don't tell their starting qb to go out and win the game for them. The entire offense wears you down as a unit until the second half, when they take over and assert control. When was the last time an Alabama qb has been a world beater? Everett Golson was at his best when Kelly had him on a leash. Same with Deshone Kizer. The more the playbook trended exclusively to these guys, the worse the team performed (especially under Everett Golson). Notre Dame lost a lot of games it should have won the last 2-3 years simply because they could not run the football in the second half with the lead. This team had an abysmal record in the red zone. Granted some of this was due to the fact that pro-style qb's don't tend to play to the strengths of BK offense, which is true, but having Chip Long back there appears on the surface to just what the doctor ordered. This team has taken a step forward on offense even if the production in the same. This is as it should be considering the strength of the offensive line.

The defense. Nobody liked Brian Vangorder. I won't waste any time debating whether it was the complexity of his schemes, his failure to develop players, or the tidal wave of injuries that contributed to his downfall - it doesn't matter. Simply stated, his approach was not suited to the college game. After everything, we finally got to the point at the start of last season where guys were healthy and guys had experience and the expectation was that things would begin to trend up, and instead we sat and watched missed tackles, blown coverages, guys out of position, and a comedy of errors that was staggering. To say to me that only Joe Schmidt understood the defense enough to put people into correct position was all I needed to hear. This year we see what its like when the defense puts pressure on the quarterback, forces turnovers, tackles one-on-one in the open field etc. All this in a pretty vanilla base defense. Hopefully in the future when this team eventually gets into a major bowl game against the likes of Ohio State, or plays USC on the road, its no longer a track meet to try to go score for score with our opponent. This defense is much better than anything we've seen in years.

Coaching and special teams. You ask yourself, what does it take to have decent special teams? My answer is depth and Notre Dame hasn't had it in a long long time. The Clemsons and the Ohio States and the Alabamas of the world put their starters out there and they can do it because there's a plethora of people that can come in and do the job if someone goes down. The result is they get big plays on special teams that end up being game changers. Again harking back to the Clemson game against VT, the Tigers looked to have the average Hokie player by 25 lbs on the field, and these guys had the speed and ability to block downfield that gave it a distinct advantage through 4 quarters in the game. These types of teams do aggressive playcalling on special teams because they can. Notre Dame calls time out before a kickoff so they can pooch it to the 40 yard line against North Carolina. Unfortunately special teams has a ways to go.
 
In fairness, not everything I say in this thread is going to be positive. I think a well written thread considers all the positives and negatives when evaluating the team and this is my mid term evaluation. TIFWIW I'm no football guru just some jackhole that has watched ND football since 1985.

I remember BGI last year when things were melting down and the jubilation the fan base exhibited when Brian VanGorder was let go. My point of view then was that his firing was a step in the right direction, but by all accounts the team had a long ways to go system wide, not just on defense. Hats off to Brian Kelly for recognizing this and cleaning house of almost the entire coaching staff and putting systems and people in positions where significant changes could occur.

One huge step in the right direction in 2017 came in not having a catastrophic offseason riddled with season ending injuries or mass suspensions. The frozen five, having car loads of upperclassmen arrested for guns and drugs, starting qb's suspended for cheating on term papers, it all adds up. Losses on the field derail recruiting, especially in light of how competition regionally has tightened up with the resurgence of Michigan and Ohio State. Even before that, the team couldn't buy a break with starting lineups obliterated in 2014 by unprecedented season ending-injuries. To finally have a quiet offseason - oh its so nice, so nice. Its my sincere wish that quiet prevails and wins accumulate, providing a sense of consistency in recruiting where the ball can get rolling and stay that way.

Strength and conditioning. I was at the Clemson/ VT game last weekend and when I saw the size discrepancy Dabo Sweeney's players had over the Hokies when they took the field to kick off it reminded me a lot of the national championship game we played against Alabama and how those Crimson Tide players towered over us. Small and slow does not win football games, and I'm happy that it looks as if the ship is starting to head in the right direction. Its one thing to make the playoffs in this league, but once you get there your boys had better have the beef to compete. By the way, Clemson destroyed VT. It really looked like not even close in the one-on-one matchups.

The offense. God love it, Brian Kelly has been the Head Coach/ pseudo Offense Coordinator thus far for the Irish and as much as the numbers support the case that the team has looked good in terms of scoring and yards gained, the one criticism I've been making is how much the production has tended to be too one-dimensional and too qb-centric. The good teams don't tell their starting qb to go out and win the game for them. The entire offense wears you down as a unit until the second half, when they take over and assert control. When was the last time an Alabama qb has been a world beater? Everett Golson was at his best when Kelly had him on a leash. Same with Deshone Kizer. The more the playbook trended exclusively to these guys, the worse the team performed (especially under Everett Golson). Notre Dame lost a lot of games it should have won the last 2-3 years simply because they could not run the football in the second half with the lead. This team had an abysmal record in the red zone. Granted some of this was due to the fact that pro-style qb's don't tend to play to the strengths of BK offense, which is true, but having Chip Long back there appears on the surface to just what the doctor ordered. This team has taken a step forward on offense even if the production in the same. This is as it should be considering the strength of the offensive line.

The defense. Nobody liked Brian Vangorder. I won't waste any time debating whether it was the complexity of his schemes, his failure to develop players, or the tidal wave of injuries that contributed to his downfall - it doesn't matter. Simply stated, his approach was not suited to the college game. After everything, we finally got to the point at the start of last season where guys were healthy and guys had experience and the expectation was that things would begin to trend up, and instead we sat and watched missed tackles, blown coverages, guys out of position, and a comedy of errors that was staggering. To say to me that only Joe Schmidt understood the defense enough to put people into correct position was all I needed to hear. This year we see what its like when the defense puts pressure on the quarterback, forces turnovers, tackles one-on-one in the open field etc. All this in a pretty vanilla base defense. Hopefully in the future when this team eventually gets into a major bowl game against the likes of Ohio State, or plays USC on the road, its no longer a track meet to try to go score for score with our opponent. This defense is much better than anything we've seen in years.

Coaching and special teams. You ask yourself, what does it take to have decent special teams? My answer is depth and Notre Dame hasn't had it in a long long time. The Clemsons and the Ohio States and the Alabamas of the world put their starters out there and they can do it because there's a plethora of people that can come in and do the job if someone goes down. The result is they get big plays on special teams that end up being game changers. Again harking back to the Clemson game against VT, the Tigers looked to have the average Hokie player by 25 lbs on the field, and these guys had the speed and ability to block downfield that gave it a distinct advantage through 4 quarters in the game. These types of teams do aggressive playcalling on special teams because they can. Notre Dame calls time out before a kickoff so they can pooch it to the 40 yard line against North Carolina. Unfortunately special teams has a ways to go.
I will say that the punt team and punt coverage has been excellent. ND has got nothing ot of the kicker return game which is crazy because the guy returning has had some big plays over the years.
 
"Hats off to Brian Kelly for recognizing--" Well, he is in his 8th year and hanging by a thread. Maybe someone up stairs finally told him; You do this, this and this, or you are gone. I mean, he has to be smart enough to know another bad year would cost him his job. So, I suppose, hats off to Kelly for at least seeing he had no choice. I agree, in main with everything you have said. The second half of this season will be telling for the long run.
 
In fairness, not everything I say in this thread is going to be positive. I think a well written thread considers all the positives and negatives when evaluating the team and this is my mid term evaluation. TIFWIW I'm no football guru just some jackhole that has watched ND football since 1985.

I remember BGI last year when things were melting down and the jubilation the fan base exhibited when Brian VanGorder was let go. My point of view then was that his firing was a step in the right direction, but by all accounts the team had a long ways to go system wide, not just on defense. Hats off to Brian Kelly for recognizing this and cleaning house of almost the entire coaching staff and putting systems and people in positions where significant changes could occur.

One huge step in the right direction in 2017 came in not having a catastrophic offseason riddled with season ending injuries or mass suspensions. The frozen five, having car loads of upperclassmen arrested for guns and drugs, starting qb's suspended for cheating on term papers, it all adds up. Losses on the field derail recruiting, especially in light of how competition regionally has tightened up with the resurgence of Michigan and Ohio State. Even before that, the team couldn't buy a break with starting lineups obliterated in 2014 by unprecedented season ending-injuries. To finally have a quiet offseason - oh its so nice, so nice. Its my sincere wish that quiet prevails and wins accumulate, providing a sense of consistency in recruiting where the ball can get rolling and stay that way.

Strength and conditioning. I was at the Clemson/ VT game last weekend and when I saw the size discrepancy Dabo Sweeney's players had over the Hokies when they took the field to kick off it reminded me a lot of the national championship game we played against Alabama and how those Crimson Tide players towered over us. Small and slow does not win football games, and I'm happy that it looks as if the ship is starting to head in the right direction. Its one thing to make the playoffs in this league, but once you get there your boys had better have the beef to compete. By the way, Clemson destroyed VT. It really looked like not even close in the one-on-one matchups.

The offense. God love it, Brian Kelly has been the Head Coach/ pseudo Offense Coordinator thus far for the Irish and as much as the numbers support the case that the team has looked good in terms of scoring and yards gained, the one criticism I've been making is how much the production has tended to be too one-dimensional and too qb-centric. The good teams don't tell their starting qb to go out and win the game for them. The entire offense wears you down as a unit until the second half, when they take over and assert control. When was the last time an Alabama qb has been a world beater? Everett Golson was at his best when Kelly had him on a leash. Same with Deshone Kizer. The more the playbook trended exclusively to these guys, the worse the team performed (especially under Everett Golson). Notre Dame lost a lot of games it should have won the last 2-3 years simply because they could not run the football in the second half with the lead. This team had an abysmal record in the red zone. Granted some of this was due to the fact that pro-style qb's don't tend to play to the strengths of BK offense, which is true, but having Chip Long back there appears on the surface to just what the doctor ordered. This team has taken a step forward on offense even if the production in the same. This is as it should be considering the strength of the offensive line.

The defense. Nobody liked Brian Vangorder. I won't waste any time debating whether it was the complexity of his schemes, his failure to develop players, or the tidal wave of injuries that contributed to his downfall - it doesn't matter. Simply stated, his approach was not suited to the college game. After everything, we finally got to the point at the start of last season where guys were healthy and guys had experience and the expectation was that things would begin to trend up, and instead we sat and watched missed tackles, blown coverages, guys out of position, and a comedy of errors that was staggering. To say to me that only Joe Schmidt understood the defense enough to put people into correct position was all I needed to hear. This year we see what its like when the defense puts pressure on the quarterback, forces turnovers, tackles one-on-one in the open field etc. All this in a pretty vanilla base defense. Hopefully in the future when this team eventually gets into a major bowl game against the likes of Ohio State, or plays USC on the road, its no longer a track meet to try to go score for score with our opponent. This defense is much better than anything we've seen in years.

Coaching and special teams. You ask yourself, what does it take to have decent special teams? My answer is depth and Notre Dame hasn't had it in a long long time. The Clemsons and the Ohio States and the Alabamas of the world put their starters out there and they can do it because there's a plethora of people that can come in and do the job if someone goes down. The result is they get big plays on special teams that end up being game changers. Again harking back to the Clemson game against VT, the Tigers looked to have the average Hokie player by 25 lbs on the field, and these guys had the speed and ability to block downfield that gave it a distinct advantage through 4 quarters in the game. These types of teams do aggressive playcalling on special teams because they can. Notre Dame calls time out before a kickoff so they can pooch it to the 40 yard line against North Carolina. Unfortunately special teams has a ways to go.

"Notre Dame calls time out before a kickoff so they can pooch it to the 40 yard line against North Carolina. Unfortunately special teams has a ways to go."

Also remember on this -- there was a kickoff just before where there was a foul on the play -- those guys just ran 60 yards, to do it again, with a dangerous returner back there -- not a bad move to settle everyone down, and catch their breath. It is not like they do this time and time again.
 
"Hats off to Brian Kelly for recognizing--" Well, he is in his 8th year and hanging by a thread. Maybe someone up stairs finally told him; You do this, this and this, or you are gone. I mean, he has to be smart enough to know another bad year would cost him his job. So, I suppose, hats off to Kelly for at least seeing he had no choice. I agree, in main with everything you have said. The second half of this season will be telling for the long run.

A lot of attention has been pointed to the fact that Kelly recognized his weaknesses last year and took major steps to correct them. That's well and good, but as you say, he's in his eighth year and great coaches don't get themselves into that kind of trouble ever.

That said, I'll repeat what I always say: I don't think he is as bad as his detractors say, nor as good as his supporters say.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelso86 and 88ND
A lot of attention has been pointed to the fact that Kelly recognized his weaknesses last year and took major steps to correct them. That's well and good, but as you say, he's in his eighth year and great coaches don't get themselves into that kind of trouble ever.

That said, I'll repeat what I always say: I don't think he is as bad as his detractors say, nor as good as his supporters say.
That about sums it up.
 
A lot of attention has been pointed to the fact that Kelly recognized his weaknesses last year and took major steps to correct them. That's well and good, but as you say, he's in his eighth year and great coaches don't get themselves into that kind of trouble ever.

That said, I'll repeat what I always say: I don't think he is as bad as his detractors say, nor as good as his supporters say.
Whoa...swiping a line from Joe Paterno. Very nice.
 
Strength coach, that coach, this coach..

One thing you can point to was the Single most gigantic thing was the dismissal of BVG.

I'm not saying the overhaul in staff and theme hasn't helped but this team wouod be vastly improved just from dismissing BVG.

As far as anything else we still have a long way to go and many opportunities will present themselves for Bk to make one of those WTF decisions only he makes.

We'll see
 
4-2 on the back stretch should be the floor for whether or not the changes made a difference. And if 4-2 happens, the 2 better be well played L's not boneheaded lapses.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT