Memo to Notre Dame: Join the ACC.

[SchmidtyNole]

Think about it. Notre Dame is 1-3. They are 1-2 against Non-ACC teams and 0-1 against ACC teams with the loss to Duke. Hypothetically speaking if Notre Dame were in the ACC they'd still be in position to win either the Atlantic or Coastal division with only the 1 ACC loss. There would still be plenty to play for in terms of finishing high in the ACC Standings or trying to win the ACC. But now, sitting at 1-3 and being an independant, about all they are truly playing for is pride and a shot at a decent Bowl like the Music City Bowl. A New Year's Six is out of the equation for Notre Dame this year but they'd still have a shot at a New Year's Six if they were in the ACC because the ACC Champion plays in the Orange Bowl if they don't make the Playoff.

It is just my opinion that Notre Dame is better off just jumping in the water and joining the ACC. Whether Notre Dame believes that is another matter.

 

[NDEwing18]

Think about it. Notre Dame is 1-3. They are 0-2 against Non-ACC teams and 0-1 against ACC teams with the loss to Duke. Hypothetically speaking if Notre Dame were in the ACC they'd still be in position to win either the Atlantic or Coastal division with only the 1 ACC loss. There would still be plenty to play for in terms of finishing high in the ACC Standings or trying to win the ACC. But now, sitting at 1-3 and being an independant, about all they are truly playing for is pride and a shot at a decent Bowl like the Music City Bowl. A New Year's Six is out of the equation for Notre Dame this year but they'd still have a shot at a New Year's Six if they were in the ACC because the ACC Champion plays in the Orange Bowl.

It is just my opinion that Notre Dame is better off just jumping in the water and joining the ACC. Whether Notre Dame believes that is another matter.

This team would have no chance at winning a conference.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

This team would have no chance at winning a conference.

Whether they are good enough this year wasn't really my point. My point is they'd still have a chance to do it.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Think about it. Notre Dame is 1-3. They are 1-2 against Non-ACC teams and 0-1 against ACC teams with the loss to Duke. Hypothetically speaking if Notre Dame were in the ACC they'd still be in position to win either the Atlantic or Coastal division with only the 1 ACC loss. There would still be plenty to play for in terms of finishing high in the ACC Standings or trying to win the ACC. But now, sitting at 1-3 and being an independant, about all they are truly playing for is pride and a shot at a decent Bowl like the Music City Bowl. A New Year's Six is out of the equation for Notre Dame this year but they'd still have a shot at a New Year's Six if they were in the ACC because the ACC Champion plays in the Orange Bowl if they don't make the Playoff.

It is just my opinion that Notre Dame is better off just jumping in the water and joining the ACC. Whether Notre Dame believes that is another matter.

this!!!

 

[NDSMC78]

Whether they are good enough this year wasn't really my point. My point is they'd still have a chance to do it.

Who cares?

 

[topdecktiger]

Who cares?

Some players do. It can be a factor when it comes to recruiting.

 

[KujawaFan]

I posted on a different thread on this subject. ND needs to join a conference. It should be the Big 10 but if ACC fine. With the committee and current "guidelines" unless ND is undefeated they won't get in to the playoff absent all the Power 5 conference champs having multiple losses. For starters, the Big 10 and SEC would threaten mutiny if ND was in before their champ. And if being a conference champ is to get the proper weight ND is totally out. The Golics can argue all they want about independence but ND is starting to get boat raced

 

[NDSMC78]

Nonsense. ND is not getting "boat raced." We haven't earned it.

 

[BGI User 348]

Not being an alum...I like it. Works in all other ND sports.

BEAT the oranges!!!

 

[KujawaFan]

Good point. 1-3 with 2 losses at home and Texas doesn't look very good and MSU just got blasted. Won't even comment on Duke. So not boat raced I suppose. I hope they turn it around. They are good for college football. Selfishly want them in the Big 10. Perfect and fun fit. No reason to be playing NC St, Syracuse, etc. Besdies the obvious OSU, Mich and MSU would be awesome as a Hawk fan to see ND in November at Kinnick or watching the Irish in Madison or Lincoln. Ok off the box.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Good point. 1-3 with 2 losses at home and Texas doesn't look very good and MSU just got blasted. Won't even comment on Duke. So not boat raced I suppose. I hope they turn it around. They are good for college football. Selfishly want them in the Big 10. Perfect and fun fit. No reason to be playing NC St, Syracuse, etc. Besdies the obvious OSU, Mich and MSU would be awesome as a Hawk fan to see ND in November at Kinnick or watching the Irish in Madison or Lincoln. Ok off the box.

I know you're new to the ACC but the general rule is you have to beat Duke before you can complain about having to play NC State.

Frankly the ACC looks to me like the best conference especially at the top already. The ACC has two teams in the top 5 and four in the top 15. The SEC just has two in the top 10 and three in the top 15.

Plus I think there's a really good chance Texas joins the ACC with Notre Dame.

 

[NDSMC78]

Good point. 1-3 with 2 losses at home and Texas doesn't look very good and MSU just got blasted. Won't even comment on Duke. So not boat raced I suppose. I hope they turn it around. They are good for college football. Selfishly want them in the Big 10. Perfect and fun fit. No reason to be playing NC St, Syracuse, etc. Besdies the obvious OSU, Mich and MSU would be awesome as a Hawk fan to see ND in November at Kinnick or watching the Irish in Madison or Lincoln. Ok off the box.

I can't think of anything worse than ND joining the Big 10. It would not be a good fit. ND has little in common with the Big 10 schools. I would rather join the Ivy League.

 

[88ND]

Think about it. Notre Dame is 1-3. They are 1-2 against Non-ACC teams and 0-1 against ACC teams with the loss to Duke. Hypothetically speaking if Notre Dame were in the ACC they'd still be in position to win either the Atlantic or Coastal division with only the 1 ACC loss. There would still be plenty to play for in terms of finishing high in the ACC Standings or trying to win the ACC. But now, sitting at 1-3 and being an independant, about all they are truly playing for is pride and a shot at a decent Bowl like the Music City Bowl. A New Year's Six is out of the equation for Notre Dame this year but they'd still have a shot at a New Year's Six if they were in the ACC because the ACC Champion plays in the Orange Bowl if they don't make the Playoff.

It is just my opinion that Notre Dame is better off just jumping in the water and joining the ACC. Whether Notre Dame believes that is another matter.

No. Not no...but hell no.




This is what kills me...

Every team has dark times. Every one. OSU ..Bama included.

When it's good it's easy to keep rolling. When it goes bad it's hard to shift gears...but make no mistake the tides do turn.

Notre Dame hits a rough patch and OMG they should join a conference. Why? The trendy thing to say. ? Wtfe
By that thinking OSU should have removed themselves from the big ten then during the end of Woody Hayes through to John Cooper. Bryant to Stalking was not good for Bama...the post Stallings to Saban was not good. Sooo o suppose Bama should have excused themselves from the sec then because it was NOT helping them at that time.

Notre Dame should never ever remove itself from independence. Ever. That is as much a staple as Bama being the Sec or OSU being big ten.

If we played two ounces of defense this year...just two ****ing ounces we are 4-0 and horse shit trendy comments like these are never made.

 

[ivan brunetti]

This team would have no chance at winning a conference.

I dunno about that. Oklahoma is the favorite to win the B12 still.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

No. Not no...but hell no.




This is what kills me...

Every team has dark times. Every one. OSU ..Bama included.

When it's good it's easy to keep rolling. When it goes bad it's hard to shift gears...but make no mistake the tides do turn.

Notre Dame hits a rough patch and OMG they should join a conference. Why? The trendy thing to say. ? Wtfe
By that thinking OSU should have removed themselves from the big ten then during the end of Woody Hayes through to John Cooper. Bryant to Stalking was not good for Bama...the post Stallings to Saban was not good. Sooo o suppose Bama should have excused themselves from the sec then because it was NOT helping them at that time.

Notre Dame should never ever remove itself from independence. Ever. That is as much a staple as Bama being the Sec or OSU being big ten.

If we played two ounces of defense this year...just two ****ing ounces we are 4-0 and horse shit trendy comments like these are never made.

Ah, no, I said we should, and probably, ultimately will, join the ACC. The landscape is changing drastically and will ultimately force that upon us.

 

[88ND]

I posted on a different thread on this subject. ND needs to join a conference. It should be the Big 10 but if ACC fine. With the committee and current "guidelines" unless ND is undefeated they won't get in to the playoff absent all the Power 5 conference champs having multiple losses. For starters, the Big 10 and SEC would threaten mutiny if ND was in before their champ. And if being a conference champ is to get the proper weight ND is totally out. The Golics can argue all they want about independence but ND is starting to get boat raced

Wrong. Last year they were in ...all they had to do was finish off a Stanford team.

Ohhh but that darn defense again puked it's guts out.

More bull shit.

Independence baby. I echo again. If ND played two ounces of defense...if they even tackled better we are 4-0 and not one idiotic conference comment.

 

[88ND]

Ah, no, I said we should, and probably, ultimately will, join the ACC. The landscape is changing drastically and will ultimately force that upon us.

Explain please what is changing so much today that is, was so different than a years ago when our teams played in the big east.

Nothing ...other than trendy comments. It's hilarious actually. If ND played a fraction of defense we are 4-0 and independent looks perfectly fine.

Seriously...you know it's bad when people still have to find something to post during a lunch break. BVG is fired...our defense was worst in the country....but I guess we tackled like shit , covered even worse ..because we aren't in the conference.

Wtfe

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Explain please what is changing so much today that is, was so different than a years ago when our teams played in the big east.

Nothing ...other than trendy comments. It's hilarious actually. If ND played a fraction of defense we are 4-0 and independent looks perfectly fine.

Seriously...you know it's bad when people still have to find something to post during a lunch break. BVG is fired...our defense was worst in the country....but I guess we tackled like shit , covered even worse ..because we aren't in the conference.

Wtfe

Dude nobody is linking our ability to tackle, or cover or hire/fire coaches to the question of independence. That's you doing that. I just have come to believe that with the college football playoff system, it favors the "Football Factory" type schools; of which ND is not one. I don't believe we can annually compete for national titles in the current format. I think it would be best for our Student-Athletes to have something to play for in these circumstances. Now, it's a message board, so you have every right to disagree, and that's fine. At the same time, it is a message board, and I to am entitled to my opinion as well.

 

[KujawaFan]

Wow 88 - ok you were in if you beat Stanford?! So 3 power 5 conference winners are left out? That would have been awesome cause ND would have been forced to join a conference and stop making their own schedule. Exactly how many ranked teams did ND beat? Temple? As much as I hate Cowherd he hit it today about delusion and living in the past.

 

[northvanole]

You are all going to have to figure why you want to be independent and you should come up with a better answer than that it is part of your history. Take out a blank piece of paper and look at the current football landscape, where the TV revenue from regular season games exceeds bowls and playoffs, where networks invest billions in conferences and expect to see a return on investment so they pump up the volume of conference games, where out of conference games are now treated as interesting novelties and where the regular season now has defined milestones of division and conference championships. But if you conclude that it is your best interest to be independent, that is fine..... but you are going to have to find a way to market it for all the advantages that you believe are valid. As of now, all the nodding heads that think its great that ND is independent are in its echo chamber.

There isn't a single millennial or even generation X sports fan that remembers when PSU, Miami, FSU and VT were independent. They don't know that South Carolina was a charter member of the ACC and that Georgia Tech is a charter member of the SEC. They don't know that the "big annual" rivalry between Florida and Tennessee hardly existed prior to the 1992 expansion of the SEC which created divisions. They barely remember Nebraska in the Big 12 and they certainly never heard of the Big 8, when Texas and OU were in different conferences.

None of this would matter if the networks didn't pound our brains into the ground about the power of conferences - and the SEC network has been the main reason. They are the conference we love to hate, but they have created a war between themselves and the Big Ten that dominates the power structure of the sport. They are now forced to face a stronger ACC, but they are looking closely at the Big 12 to see if an implosion can cause opportunity.

ND has a great tradition and a great history. But if it wants to remain independent, it has to do in this new paradigm of conference power. It's not the way FSU wanted things to be, but we had way less resources than you did to even consider not joining a conference.

But if you join, do it on your own terms

 

[DieHard_Irish]

You are all going to have to figure why you want to be independent and you should come up with a better answer than that it is part of your history. Take out a blank piece of paper and look at the current football landscape, where the TV revenue from regular season games exceeds bowls and playoffs, where networks invest billions in conferences and expect to see a return on investment so they pump up the volume of conference games, where out of conference games are now treated as interesting novelties and where the regular season now has defined milestones of division and conference championships. But if you conclude that it is your best interest to be independent, that is fine..... but you are going to have to find a way to market it for all the advantages that you believe are valid. As of now, all the nodding heads that think its great that ND is independent are in its echo chamber.

There isn't a single millennial or even generation X sports fan that remembers when PSU, Miami, FSU and VT were independent. They don't know that South Carolina was a charter member of the ACC and that Georgia Tech is a charter member of the SEC. They don't know that the "big annual" rivalry between Florida and Tennessee hardly existed prior to the 1992 expansion of the SEC which created divisions. They barely remember Nebraska in the Big 12 and they certainly never heard of the Big 8, when Texas and OU were in different conferences.

None of this would matter if the networks didn't pound our brains into the ground about the power of conferences - and the SEC network has been the main reason. They are the conference we love to hate, but they have created a war between themselves and the Big Ten that dominates the power structure of the sport. They are now forced to face a stronger ACC, but they are looking closely at the Big 12 to see if an implosion can cause opportunity.

ND has a great tradition and a great history. But if it wants to remain independent, it has to do in this new paradigm of conference power. It's not the way FSU wanted things to be, but we had way less resources than you did to even consider not joining a conference.

But if you join, do it on your own terms

Well said, and accurate

 

[twalsh]

Wow 88 - ok you were in if you beat Stanford?! So 3 power 5 conference winners are left out? That would have been awesome cause ND would have been forced to join a conference and stop making their own schedule. Exactly how many ranked teams did ND beat? Temple? As much as I hate Cowherd he hit it today about delusion and living in the past.

Cowherd changes his tune on ND like the wind shifts. Nobody pays any attention to him.

 

[cpsnaples]

I can't think of anything worse than ND joining the Big 10. It would not be a good fit. ND has little in common with the Big 10 schools. I would rather join the Ivy League.

If ND wants to join a conference they have only one choice. They forfeited any other option by signing the "grant of rights " with the ACC.

 

[88ND]

Wow 88 - ok you were in if you beat Stanford?! So 3 power 5 conference winners are left out? That would have been awesome cause ND would have been forced to join a conference and stop making their own schedule. Exactly how many ranked teams did ND beat? Temple? As much as I hate Cowherd he hit it today about delusion and living in the past.

How about this...

How about we finish the year even in a position to be considered, then we get bypassed because of non conference.

Until then the only thing you have is trying to predict WTF the committee will think about something that has NEVER happened yet....which is us sitting at zero or one loss at seasons end.

Until then...guess what, it's nothing. Even if we were in conference we aren't playing good enough football to have been a conference champ. So it's irrelevant.

When Notre Dame get skated because of no conference title game...then we'll talk.

Until then independence is perfectly A OK

 

[northvanole]

I completely disagree that ND should join a conference when it gets "skated" because of conference and playoff politics. Is that what you want? To be forced to join? Find a pathway to remain independent and change how you market it to be the gold standard you believe it to be, or create the narrative whereby joining a conference is done in such a way that it impacts the entire sport.

 

[NDSMC78]

If ND wants to join a conference they have only one choice. They forfeited any other option by signing the "grant of rights " with the ACC.

I wasn't really suggesting that ND should up and join the Ivy League. I merely said that it would be preferable to joining the Big 10.

 

[cpsnaples]

I wasn't really suggesting that ND should up and join the Ivy League. I merely said that it would be preferable to joining the Big 10.

My point was that because N D signed the "grant of rights" with the ACC, they can NOT join ANY conference other than the ACC anytime in the next 20 plus years

 

[NDSMC78]

My point was that because N D signed the "grant of rights" with the ACC, they can NOT join ANY conference other than the ACC anytime in the next 20 plus years

I think we are talking past each other.

 

[cpsnaples]

I think we are talking past each other.

 

[cpsnaples]

Perhaps , if so , sorry

 

[Izo]

Join ? Why ? Stuck with 8 conference games , Then Navy , USC, Stanford plus a mid- major in a 12 game schedule . I like the idea of a national schedule playing teams like Texas, Michigan ,Michigan State, ,Oklahoma ,Georgia ,TCU for a 2 game series, maybe some other Big 10 , SEC , Big 12 teams plus USC, Stanford, Navy annually .

ND can make the Final4 if they win ,just win . We were in the conversation last year . 2 narrow loses to Clemson and Stanford cost us a berth . We play enough power teams each year to get us in the playoffs .


I just keep posting the same reasons to stay independent at this time . Who knows about these 4 super sixteen team conferences in the future !

 

[deadirishpoet]

Think about it. Notre Dame is 1-3. They are 1-2 against Non-ACC teams and 0-1 against ACC teams with the loss to Duke. Hypothetically speaking if Notre Dame were in the ACC they'd still be in position to win either the Atlantic or Coastal division with only the 1 ACC loss. There would still be plenty to play for in terms of finishing high in the ACC Standings or trying to win the ACC. But now, sitting at 1-3 and being an independant, about all they are truly playing for is pride and a shot at a decent Bowl like the Music City Bowl. A New Year's Six is out of the equation for Notre Dame this year but they'd still have a shot at a New Year's Six if they were in the ACC because the ACC Champion plays in the Orange Bowl if they don't make the Playoff.

It is just my opinion that Notre Dame is better off just jumping in the water and joining the ACC. Whether Notre Dame believes that is another matter.

No and please don't ask again

 

[88ND]

I completely disagree that ND should join a conference when it gets "skated" because of conference and playoff politics. Is that what you want? To be forced to join? Find a pathway to remain independent and change how you market it to be the gold standard you believe it to be, or create the narrative whereby joining a conference is done in such a way that it impacts the entire sport.

No I don't. My point was this is a non conversation until such a thing even happened. I'm still perfectly fine staying independent because if we get skated that means we still didn't do enough on the field and we left doubt in the committee mind.

Independence FOREVER❕❕❕❕

 

[Nocalirish]

ND plays for NC's not conf titles or bowl games. Join a conf and it might as well be the Ivy League.

 

[northvanole]

Join ? Why ? Stuck with 8 conference games , Then Navy , USC, Stanford plus a mid- major in a 12 game schedule . I like the idea of a national schedule playing teams like Texas, Michigan ,Michigan State, ,Oklahoma ,Georgia ,TCU for a 2 game series, maybe some other Big 10 , SEC , Big 12 teams plus USC, Stanford, Navy annually .

ND can make the Final4 if they win ,just win . We were in the conversation last year . 2 narrow loses to Clemson and Stanford cost us a berth . We play enough power teams each year to get us in the playoffs .


I just keep posting the same reasons to stay independent at this time . Who knows about these 4 super sixteen team conferences in the future !

There is no doubt that the majority of FSU fans would rather have stayed independent for the reasons you gave - you can get a more interesting schedule. But the world changed and we didn't obviously have the same national status as ND. We were forced to join a conference because that was the only way we can lock down home and away schedules (we played Nebraska 4 times in Lincoln and 4 times in bowls - never in Tallahassee) and it was the only way to have a guaranteed revenue stream from a TV contract. ND's current ability to schedule home and away games is not going to change - to me that is more valuable to ND than the NBC contract. ND will always make money and I believe that ND would do a lot better if it got rid of NBC and had the same deal with ESPN. ESPN would just do a better job marketing the program.

But ND's ability to create an interesting home and away schedule is the true golden asset of the program, because that is incredibly powerful and unique in this new age of college football. On the other hand, conferences have amped up their collective power and if the playoff system changes - no matter which scenario you choose - it will definitely be done to give the conferences (SEC and Big Ten) more power.

 

[FSUTribe76]

ND plays for NC's not conf titles or bowl games. Join a conf and it might as well be the Ivy League.

What an absurd comment, the entirety of the time I've been alive (40 years), Notre Dame has won two national championships (one when I was one yo), played for and lost one other and been in something vaguely considering contention (top 5 finish) four times. That means the other 33 years you were playing for jack and %*%.

Conversely FSU has 3 national championships, played for and lost 4 other times for the national championship, were in contention (top 5) 10 other times they weren't in the title or playoff game. Plus by being in the conference we've won conference rings 15 of the 24 years we were eligible. Between the conference championship and national championship hunt, FSU was relevant and playing meaningful games all year in 21 years out of the last 40.

So basically 33 years out of the last 40, Notre Dame has been meaningless and the seasons run for nothing while FSU has had only 19 seasons where they're just "playing for pride" as opposed to something tangible. It probably is a big part of explaining why despite having FSU level talent there have been countless seasons where Notre Dame just fell apart and suffered loss after loss. As even in our "Lost Decade" that was really about seven years we never finished worse than a game over 500 while Notre Dame had six losing seasons and 12 of 40 where you either had a losing season, finished right at 500 or just one game above replicating FSUs worst season during that 40 year span.

While you could say "who knows", I'm sure several of those horrible collapses despite your talent were because there was nothing much to play for in 33 out of your 40 seasons while FSU still had achievable goals for most of its season right up until the last game.

 

[NDSMC78]

What an absurd comment, the entirety of the time I've been alive (40 years), Notre Dame has won two national championships (one when I was one yo), played for and lost one other and been in something vaguely considering contention (top 5 finish) four times. That means the other 33 years you were playing for jack and %*%.

Conversely FSU has 3 national championships, played for and lost 4 other times for the national championship, were in contention (top 5) 10 other times they weren't in the title or playoff game. Plus by being in the conference we've won conference rings 15 of the 24 years we were eligible. Between the conference championship and national championship hunt, FSU was relevant and playing meaningful games all year in 21 years out of the last 40.

So basically 33 years out of the last 40, Notre Dame has been meaningless and the seasons run for nothing while FSU has had only 19 seasons where they're just "playing for pride" as opposed to something tangible. It probably is a big part of explaining why despite having FSU level talent there have been countless seasons where Notre Dame just fell apart and suffered loss after loss. As even in our "Lost Decade" that was really about seven years we never finished worse than a game over 500 while Notre Dame had six losing seasons and 12 of 40 where you either had a losing season, finished right at 500 or just one game above replicating FSUs worst season during that 40 year span.

While you could say "who knows", I'm sure several of those horrible collapses despite your talent were because there was nothing much to play for in 33 out of your 40 seasons while FSU still had achievable goals for most of its season right up until the last game.

You want to play for ACC titles? Go knock yourself out. Have a good time. Doesn't do anything for me.

 

[FSUTribe76]

You want to play for ACC titles? Go knock yourself out. Have a good time. Doesn't do anything for me.

It means I have something to cheer for over half the seasons while you've been utterly miserable 33 out of 40 years and happy exactly twice.

 

[NDSMC78]

It means I have something to cheer for over half the seasons while you've been utterly miserable 33 out of 40 years and happy exactly twice.

It may mean something to you. That's great. FYI, losing a game or two in a season does not make one utterly miserable.

 

[cgvr]

I know you're new to the ACC but the general rule is you have to beat Duke before you can complain about having to play NC State.

Frankly the ACC looks to me like the best conference especially at the top already. The ACC has two teams in the top 5 and four in the top 15. The SEC just has two in the top 10 and three in the top 15.

Plus I think there's a really good chance Texas joins the ACC with Notre Dame.

that's going to leave a mark....