McGovern to Transfer
- Thread starter Java65
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Did not want to sit on the bench his last year at ND. Best of luck to him.
Think he saw the writing on the wall, same situation as Hegarty a couple years ago. Guys like Kramer, Hoge will be probable starter. He may have started a game or two as fill in but he is probably not a guy coaches were invested in with young talent waiting in wings. Good luck to him, hope he plays well in VA and he has seen the last of his concussions.
Thanks for your input.
So, if he's looking to move (since everything is so bad at ND according to you), is Virginia an upgrade? Doubtful.
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With Kramer, Hoge, Eichenberg he was probably only going to see the field in blowouts.
He did not play against Stanford and got limited reps against Syracuse, Miami and USC due to injuries.
He did not play against Stanford and got limited reps against Syracuse, Miami and USC due to injuries.
maybe he would have started, maybe he wouldn't but he was the starter and at the very least you have experienced, talented depth.
One of the reasons that Bama, Clemson, O$U, etc are so successful is that besides having a great starting 22 they have loads of talented depth at every position. When a starter needs a breather or gets injured there is a very little drop-off with the backup. In the case of ND we have seen what happens when a player or 2 gets injured, we are either forced to play a Fr or the talent drop-off is enormous.
Depth not only impacts you on game day it also hurts you in practice. If you are very thin (talent or bodies) at some positions it make it difficult to have physical practices for fear of injury.
Nobody believes that things are "going so well." But keep spouting your straw man arguments, fraud.
Colin was not offered a 5th year at Notre Dame. That's why he is leaving. ND has better options going into 2017 with Kraemer and Eichenberg, both of whom can push Bars inside to right guard, where he should be playing and where he will be an upgrade on McGovern, while RT will be upgraded as well.
This is a good thing for Notre Dame and I wish Colin all the best.
This is a good thing for Notre Dame and I wish Colin all the best.
According to the article, it was implied that he was not "guaranteed" a starting spot. Plus, with Kreamer, Hoge and Eichenberg (?) on the rise, they may pass him.
He was a starter last year when Kramer, Boudreaux and Eichenburg were true frosh and Hodge was a RS frosh... writing may have been on the wall there.
Colin McGovern was never supposed to start at Notre Dame. He started because Steve Elmer quit on his team after 3 years of starting and developing into a leader of the group and a would be captain. Elmer should be graduating after 4 years as starter and Kraemer should be taking over.
Agreed that it's the best spot for him, but I could easily see one of him or Eich at RT, with Bars moving to RG. Alex struggled on the edge in protection last year. Not sure his mobility was ever the same after the injury.
not sure if you recall a couple seasons ago, I contended that if ND had a spot for a 5* OL prospect that I prefer taking that prospect over a 5th year returning OL who was going to provide 'depth'. So recalling that, your statement is interesting. Back then the 'board coaches (you know the ones always incorrect but never 'wrong'), lambasted me that a 5th year lineman was far more valuable: that is, a 1 year reserve that it is hoped never sees the field > than a potential 3-4 year starter?!
Teams like that get depth from 5* new players, not from average-to-below-average 5th year players
McGovern was okay, but he wasn't going to have much of a chance to start for us on our OL, so he's transferring to get PT.
Very normal and actually a healthy sign for a program
Guys like Kreamer, Hoge, Ruhland, and Eichenberg were all likely to pass him
Don't know about that debate, but you'd need more specific facts to rule on it.
Basically....there is always, always room for a legit 5* recruit. No question asked.
That being said, if the 5th Year player is actually very good (more like an Alex Bars than Collin McGovern) then you never, never "cut" an already quality player for a new recruit
If you need to create a spot for a legit 5* stud, you can always do it without "cutting" a quality player
"We probably have the biggest/deepest/highest rated group collectively at offensive line than anybody else in the country"
Now -- just need to get them to play like it!
Development. Outside of Quenton Nelson, they all look like they workout via the donut-to-mouth method. I want to see some guys with some build and aggression to them. Adams and Jones are 225lb tailbacks who ND needs to get going North/South behind a push up front. I'm excited about the potential of a Lutua or a Wright as an extra blocker in the running game. Zone blocking, or not, give me a pair of the double teams play side to the left with Wright and Mcglinchey on the end, Mustipher and Nelson playing tackle- to-backer, a backside cut off block from the RG to the Will / Sam and Alize heads up on the safety over top of him in the slot. Let the backside end go and get down friggen hill on one cut. Until ND can learn to ru against a 7 man box, this offense is going to be inconsistant. You cannot check to pass everytime you see more than 6 hats in the box. Granted, attaching a TE automatically brings that 8th defender down, but good! I'll take my chances on St. Brown, Stepherson and Jones, with a back coming out of the backfield and the option for the attached TE to release, in cover 1 if they want to bring 8 into the box.
With at least 6 available schollies he was getting a 5th year
This is not true at all. A decision on his 5th years had not been made. Also, there isn't one shred of evidence that Kraemer or Eichenberg were going win the job. There is no evidence they are better.
If you think its such a great thing does that mean you will relinquish any rights to complain about the performance of the OL or complain about the lack of depth if one of the OL gets injured. The fact is nobody knows if Kraemer or Eichenberg are any good because nobody has seen them play.
Quote from McGovern, "It was an experience of a lifetime where I feel I truly grew into a man," stated McGovern. "However, it's not the school or environment for everyone and I believe there are schools that may suit my needs better than Notre Dame." The decision to leave was 100% his.
so far, so far
ND's 'great' OL is a lie! yes, on paper and in print it would give the impression of being a top OL;
but then the games begin! So greatness is not achieved in type or print, it is achieved in performance
ND's 'great' OL is a lie! yes, on paper and in print it would give the impression of being a top OL;
but then the games begin! So greatness is not achieved in type or print, it is achieved in performance
I don't agree it's a development problem. It's a retention problem and it continues this year. It is Kelly's archilles heel and continue to be.
We lost what 5 upperclassmen at the end of last year, now another. ND has NO WAY to replace these guys.
This years team looks to be barely a JV team to start the season, and by season end it will once again resemble a freshman team. You can't control the line of scrimmage without upperclassmen. And you're not going to make it through the year without injuries. Kelly needs all the depth he can get everywhere.
Each one of these guys is worth their weight in gold. Kelly needs to find a way to keep them. I understand it might not be easy, but it needs to be done.
The retention problem is Kelly's archilles heel. And it clearly continues.
We lost what 5 upperclassmen at the end of last year, now another. ND has NO WAY to replace these guys.
This years team looks to be barely a JV team to start the season, and by season end it will once again resemble a freshman team. You can't control the line of scrimmage without upperclassmen. And you're not going to make it through the year without injuries. Kelly needs all the depth he can get everywhere.
Each one of these guys is worth their weight in gold. Kelly needs to find a way to keep them. I understand it might not be easy, but it needs to be done.
The retention problem is Kelly's archilles heel. And it clearly continues.
It was 100% his, if you mean that he was free to choose to go somewhere that had told him that he wasn't going to be given a starting position and hadn't even agreed to give him a scholarship spot on the team......then you're right!
And no one has ever seen them play? Did you miss their entire prep careers? Or last spring/fall practice?
There is a LOT more than "1 shred of evidence" that those players, and more (such as Hoge, Ruhland, etc.) are going to be better than McGovern, and/or already are.
Upgrading from McGovern doesn't mean that there automatically can't be any issues/complaints along the OL (as you try to suggest) but that doesn't change the fact that whoever wins the RG spot in place of McGovern (who is fleeing that competition) is certainly going to be an upgrade.
If you go strictly by 2016, then you would largely be correct.
But if you look back to 2015, then you would be completely wrong. In 2015, ND showed a great OL that put a RS Frosh 3rd String QB and a 3rd and 4th String RBs (a WR and a True Frosh) on to the map IMMEDIATELY
So if you look at the overall evidence, ND clearly has an extremely talented OL with good depth at most positions...but it needs to develop and play up to its potential
Retaining players who may well not even be in the 2-Deep is a key problem?
If you want to say that retaining NFL EE's is a problem, then I can agree with that somewhat.
But there isn't a single program in CFB that retains all possible NFL EE's, and there never will be again. The $$$ has simply become too aluring.
And if you look at almost any healthy program, they have a large amount of upper-classmen attrition, specifically with players that aren't likely to start and especially with players that aren't likely to be in the 2-Deep.
How many 5th Year seniors do you think are 3rd String on Alabama, Ohio State, USC, Stanford, etc.?
You need a certain amount of roster turn-over and getting rid of players like McGovern, who were not likely to make significant contributions in 2017 (because of being passed on the depth chart by more talented and younger players) is a must-have for healthy programs in today's game.
Understand your point Decker but we have already lost the starting and backup QB's along with a few other players. At some point the bleeding has to stop. We don't know where the backups will be needed, but we know they will be needed.
ND isn't like the other programs. No JUCO's There is NO WAY to replace the experience. And the meat on the line.
Wasn't Harrison Smith a wash and a 3rd stringer until his senior season?
One could also argue that most of our players that left early for the NFL would have been better off playing out their last year before entering the league. The NFL isn't going anywhere. They will still be there next year and the year after.
ND isn't like the other programs. No JUCO's There is NO WAY to replace the experience. And the meat on the line.
Wasn't Harrison Smith a wash and a 3rd stringer until his senior season?
One could also argue that most of our players that left early for the NFL would have been better off playing out their last year before entering the league. The NFL isn't going anywhere. They will still be there next year and the year after.
Most likely he wanted to go to a bowl game in his final year and that is not happening with Kelly.
UVA won't be in a bowl game next year. They've been to one bowl game in the past nine seasons (2-10 last year) and ND will be going, regardless of Kelly.
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There is A LOT that's just wrong here.
1. Harrison Smith was a starter for almost all of his time at ND. He was even listed as a Top100 player in CFB going into his final season. He was just vastly under-apperciated by ND fans for most of his career and was blasted when he was misplayed by Charlie Weis as a MLB as a Frosh and Soph
2. QB depth has absolutely no impact on wanting an exrtra 2nd/3rd String OG
3. Please make the argument for all these players that would have been better off coming back. Seriously, who are you talking about??
(Spoiler Alert: ND has actually gotten an extra year out of far more players than we've lost a year that we realistically could have gotten them to stay. See: Z. Martin, Stanley, Eifert, Floyd, Teo, etc.)
If anything, what we need to do in order to cultivate a stronger crop of 5th Years is to get better depth along some key positions (Especially the DL) and then use that depth to RS players that we've failed to RS (Okwara, Shwenke, etc.)
Getting 5th-Years from players like Okwara, Shwenke, Onwaulu, etc. is what we need to help improve our defense
We don't need 5th Years from players like McGovern
Troll?
Or just too stupid to realize that your "troll goal" wouldn't actually be accomplished by a transfer to UVA??
Seriously wondering.....
Decker, first off, I don't know what the roster openings are and how many slots etc. Or if this guy would be offered a fifth. I'm saying he's a guy with 20 games of experience. He's got all the intangibles with size etc to get better.
We have already had a lot of attrition and we have a full semester, plus one full summer to get through. Seems we lose 3-5 every semester and at least 5 every summer. ..Not counting injuries. Just legal and schoolwork and personal related. So that puts us at conservative 14 guys gone by opening day...
1. Who should have stayed?
The guys you list below did better on draft day than every other player that has left early in the last few years. Definitely better than any of our NFL EE's. And have had better success once in the league. And then there's Everett Golson.
2. QB depth has absolutely no impact on wanting an exrtra 2nd/3rd String OG
Overall team depth. Again, we lost already 5 experienced players as stated earlier. At least 5 already.
3. Please make the argument for all these players
. See: Z. Martin, Stanley, Eifert, Floyd, Teo, etc.
Those are all of them. There is no etc. And I think all of them did better on draft day than those that left early. Most certainly better than our current year NFL EE's.
Again, I don't know if Kelly will have any room to offer this McGovern kid. And I agree we need 5th from all of the better players. As long as there is no more attrition, we are putting out a talented JV team. Which is better than a talented freshman team like last year.
We have already had a lot of attrition and we have a full semester, plus one full summer to get through. Seems we lose 3-5 every semester and at least 5 every summer. ..Not counting injuries. Just legal and schoolwork and personal related. So that puts us at conservative 14 guys gone by opening day...
1. Who should have stayed?
The guys you list below did better on draft day than every other player that has left early in the last few years. Definitely better than any of our NFL EE's. And have had better success once in the league. And then there's Everett Golson.
2. QB depth has absolutely no impact on wanting an exrtra 2nd/3rd String OG
Overall team depth. Again, we lost already 5 experienced players as stated earlier. At least 5 already.
3. Please make the argument for all these players
. See: Z. Martin, Stanley, Eifert, Floyd, Teo, etc.
Those are all of them. There is no etc. And I think all of them did better on draft day than those that left early. Most certainly better than our current year NFL EE's.
Again, I don't know if Kelly will have any room to offer this McGovern kid. And I agree we need 5th from all of the better players. As long as there is no more attrition, we are putting out a talented JV team. Which is better than a talented freshman team like last year.
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I bet you expected ND to be in a bowl game last season too. LOL.
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