Kristofic is Irish!!!!

[Telx1]

You just agreed that 3* who are pursued and landed early may be good or “underrated” while 3* who are pursued and landed late are not.

That is foolish for all the reasons I’ve pointed out and discussed above, and precludes the possibility of evaluating a “late three star” as a high-level prospect who was simply a late bloomer, or even someone that the staff didn’t feel they would be able to recruit (academically) or land over another program until late in the process. There are numerous other reasons a three star may not be Pursued until late in the process but still be a high-level prospect as well.

These attempts to make recruiting ranking a major factor in evaluating an individual known prospect are foolish and bely ignorance. That’s still the case when you do the same thing but also consider the time of year that you personally became aware of the recruitment, or that the recruitment became public.

This is just another method forwarded by @chaseball Beth has virtually no value and belies ignorance and foolishness. However, this time yourself and @SALittleGiant513 Have actively supported the foolish and ignorant process that he forwarded, and us signed yourself onto his foolishness and ignorance.

What I’ve said is that I prefer successfully recruiting a three star who is evaluated as a Plan A guy by our coaches early in the process to successfully recruiting a three star Plan C guy late in the process. I would prefer to have all our Spots filled with Plan A Guys early in the process, and admittedly we might lose out on late bloomers as a result. Pretty straightforward view. I value our coaches evaluations of talent as reflected in their Plan A versus Plan B versus Plan C, etc... over the star rating system. Of course, ND never has all its slots filled early with Plan A targets, and this staff has done a damn good job dentifying late bloomers and high potential raw talent guys, as evidenced by Amosa and Wardlow respectively. Enough said.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

They fit perfectly into what he was talking about, what delusional fantasy world are you living in?

Notre Dame missed on its top targets at DE in 2018, and on its back ups as well. They then moved onto Milik Langham, because he was a late blooming prospect who they were now excited about.

According to you, @chaseball, and @Telx1 this would mean that Malik Langham Was a bad 3* recruit because we move to him late in the process after whiffing on our top options and initial back ups at his position.

However, in reality he was a national level recruit who would’ve been a major land at the position, he just was a late bloomer so he wasn’t targeted until late in the process… And obviously the recruiting services had him as a 3* then too.

This is the point!
Which no one recruit needs to be evaluated individually, using their film, what is known about the recruitment and priority to elite coaching staff’s in the area, and not relying significantly on recruiting rankings.

Again, I have no idea how these basics are going over the heads of so many on this board.

Sweet Straw-man. Guys like Langham cannot be Plan A because of late evaluations. We agree on this. Plan C and D recruits that chase is referring to do not become priorities because their new film/senior year performance, they become priorities because there is not one else out there. Two totally different scenarios.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

About the responses I would expect from someone who is out of his depth and no longer able to handle the conversation.

Just admit your we’re wrong, had no idea what your were talking about, and try to learn more in the future before you run your mouth.

Now run along.

Whatever man. You are talking about recruiting evaluations on a player by player level when we are talking about an entire different issue and you are acting like you are above everyone when you are just being intellectually dishonest at best or intentionally refusing to recognize historical facts at worst.

 

[justified1]

The recruiting services must be generally reliable, just look at the success of teams that are recruiting the players that are considered in the elite catagory or top of the class catagory
It might be argued that overall the services are more reliable than any single head coaches judgement.

If your team/coach cannot get commitments from elite players then, like sour grapes, you naturally will argue against the reliability of the services.

 

[TDIrish27]

Hard to fathom a kid being 3 stars with the offers the kid had.

 

[FriedmanIP]

The recruiting services must be generally reliable, just look at the success of teams that are recruiting the players that are considered in the elite catagory or top of the class catagory
It might be argued that overall the services are more reliable than any single head coaches judgement.

If your team/coach cannot get commitments from elite players then, like sour grapes, you naturally will argue against the reliability of the services.

Wow.

So how do you explain teams like Clemson making the playoffs and winning the championship in 2015?
Michigan State making the playoffs?
Or Washington making the playoffs?
Heck, even Oklahoma making the playoffs?

The stupidity on this board is simply mind boggling. I never realized there were so many people that bothered to post about college football, and yet understood absolutely nothing about recruiting.

 

[South Bender]

Hard to fathom a kid being 3 stars with the offers the kid had.

Maybe being undersized. Maybe he didn't attend all the big camps. Who knows.

Being on the same film with Jurkovec probably didn't hurt getting him recognized by coaches/scouts. Hence the big boy offers, even though he wasn't highly rated by the recruiting sites.

 

[South Bender]

Right, wrong or indifferent - Friedman you seem to be one arrogant SOB.
Tone it down a bit, man.

 

[justified1]

3*’s is a good player. Stars are used as ‘best guess’ identifiers of future performance.
Ironically, the only basis fans or posters here have for opinions are in fact the opinions of others.

SB: you’re correct about Friedman: a loose wingnut.

 

[FriedmanIP]

3*’s is a good player. Stars are used as ‘best guess’ identifiers of future performance.
Ironically, the only basis fans or posters here have for opinions are in fact the opinions of others.

SB: you’re correct about Friedman: a loose wingnut.

Those are not the only tools available

 

[echowaker]

Maybe being undersized. Maybe he didn't attend all the big camps. Who knows.

Being on the same film with Jurkovec probably didn't hurt getting him recognized by coaches/scouts. Hence the big boy offers, even though he wasn't highly rated by the recruiting sites.

Kida who don't attend camps definitely get penalized

3*’s is a good player. Stars are used as ‘best guess’ identifiers of future performance.
Ironically, the only basis fans or posters here have for opinions are in fact the opinions of others.

SB: you’re correct about Friedman: a loose wingnut.

3 stars are also great players and 5 stars are also average players.

 

[justified1]

It is a lot higher odds to predict a 5* prospect who will be great than to find a 3* who proves to be great.
Try it.

 

[twalsh]

3 star kids who have acceptable/actionable offers this early in the cycle, at a position group of strength tells me one thing: this kid was ranked very highly on NDs board.

it's the 3 star recruits late in the cycle where ND missed out on their plan A, B, C, and even Ds in some cases, and start taking average 3 stars at major positions of need for #s reasons, that tell a different story. This was happening a lot more often several years ago than it is now.

still, ND is in desperate need of the top flight top 100/ top 50/ top 25 athletes in order to level the talent gap with the premiere modern powers in collegiate football.

Should I be concerned that I actually agree with a Chase post?

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Should I be concerned that I actually agree with a Chase post?

Yes, this isn't a terrible post from Chase. He seemed ok with the commitment. Some people want to argue with the sky Chase just took a break from it so of course now people are mad about that too.

 

[TDIrish27]

Maybe being undersized. Maybe he didn't attend all the big camps. Who knows.

Being on the same film with Jurkovec probably didn't hurt getting him recognized by coaches/scouts. Hence the big boy offers, even though he wasn't highly rated by the recruiting sites.

If I have a choice between the OL coaches of Clemson , OSU , Wisconsin and some Rivals site hack not really a tough one.

Hey they have Olmstead as a Top 100 and I've seen him play and IMO he's a big man in a little mans league.

 

[FriedmanIP]

It is a lot higher odds to predict a 5* prospect who will be great than to find a 3* who proves to be great.
Try it.

If the recruit is unknown and you don’t have any other method of evaluation available to you...then yes.

But when evaluating an actual, individual recruit… Recruiting rankings are one of the worst possible ways to do it.

 

[FriedmanIP]

If I have a choice between the OL coaches of Clemson , OSU , Wisconsin and some Rivals site hack not really a tough one.

Hey they have Olmstead as a Top 100 and I've seen him play and IMO he's a big man in a little mans league.

Unfortunately, I’m not as high on him as rivals is either. I still think he’s a good prospect, and that’s why so many schools were interested in him and he’s rated highly.

But I don’t feel he’s quite as good as his ranking indicates.

Yet another failure of using recruiting rankings to evaluate an individual, known prospect.

 

[NDIRISH53]

What Chaseball is saying that there is a huge difference in signing a kid like Kristofic at this point in the cycle, who is criminally underrated, and signing a kid like Kofi Wardlow or Pete Mokwah or Brandon Tiassum as plan C's at the very end of the cycle. Not that controversial....

 

[FriedmanIP]

What Chaseball is saying that there is a huge difference in signing a kid like Kristofic at this point in the cycle, who is criminally underrated, and signing a kid like Kofi Wardlow or Pete Mokwah or Brandon Tiassum as plan C's at the very end of the cycle. Not that controversial....

See, this itself is another example of why you shouldn’t be using this pathetic, foolish, and idiotic method of evaluation.

Lumping Kofi Wardlow in with Mokwah and Tiassum is perhaps a perfect example of why recruits need to be evaluated individually, and not with this “recruiting rankings, groupthink” strategy.

Kofi it’s going to be a good player for us, and was a good prospect who didn’t start to put things together until late and his senior year, because he hadn’t spent all that long playing football… Which is totally different than Momwah and Tiassum

Thank you for proving my point for me.

 

[justified1]

who recruited Mokwah? Tiassum? Presumably they were evaluated by ‘your guy’.

 

[NDIRISH53]

See, this itself is another example of why you shouldn’t be using this pathetic, foolish, and idiotic method of evaluation.

Lumping Kofi Wardlow in with Mokwah and Tiassum is perhaps a perfect example of why recruits need to be evaluated individually, and not with this “recruiting rankings, groupthink” strategy.

Kofi it’s going to be a good player for us, and was a good prospect who didn’t start to put things together until late and his senior year, because he hadn’t spent all that long playing football… Which is totally different than Momwah and Tiassum

Thank you for proving my point for me.

Lol... ok bro you got it. Kofi was the plan A at d end and he will be a good player. Okay...

 

[FriedmanIP]

who recruited Mokwah? Tiassum? Presumably they were evaluated by ‘your guy’.

BVG is “my guy” now?

Mokwuh was a last minute BVG target immediately after his hiring, and Tiassum was a target he selected during his 1st season here.

Again, you’re going out of your way to prove my point for me.

These generalizations based on star ranking or when a player was recruited (or at least when some of the public became aware of that recruitment) is an absolutely moronic way to evaluate prospects

You’re talking about a known, individual prospect… And the only reasonable way to evaluate that prospect is to look at them individually. Look at their film first and foremost. Then follow the recruitment closely and look at which schools made them a priority, and what success those schools have an evaluating talent at their position. Then look what frosted analysts who evaluate that player in depth have to say about them, especially if those analysts actually have a background In scouting players at the college and NFL levels. Finally, only after all of that, should the nearly meaningless recruiting ranking be factored into the analysis.

This is really, really simple stuff here.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Lol... ok bro you got it. Kofi was the plan A at d end and he will be a good player. Okay...

He wasn’t planning to. But that in no way changes his quality as a prospect or player.

That was the point I was making with Malik Langham, Up late and showed himself to be a quality prospect, so much so that not only did Notre Dame get involved but so did most of the nation, and he ended up at Alabama.

This concept that timing somehow dictates the quality of an individual, known prospect is just mornonic.

 

[NDIRISH53]

He wasn’t planning to. But that in no way changes his quality as a prospect or player.

That was the point I was making with Malik Langham, Up late and showed himself to be a quality prospect, so much so that not only did Notre Dame get involved but so did most of the nation, and he ended up at Alabama.

This concept that timing somehow dictates the quality of an individual, known prospect is just mornonic.

That is a false equivalence, as you tend to do frequently. Just because langham was a late bloomer doesn't mean that Kofi has that same potential at all. For god sake if ND's defensive end recruiting had a pulse, he wouldnt even be a take. I watched the spring game 5 or 6 times now on YouTube so I can rewind each play and not only did he not make one play, he did not SHED ONE BLOCK and he played the whole second half and some of the first. Watch the film, he was also slow and undersized. This isn't about him this is about Kristofic. There is no reason to attack chase for saying he's a different situation then Wardlow, Mccollister, Tiassum, Mokwah, Ashton White, etc.

 

[FriedmanIP]

That is a false equivalence, as you tend to do frequently. Just because langham was a late bloomer doesn't mean that Kofi has that same potential at all. For god sake if ND's defensive end recruiting had a pulse, he wouldnt even be a take. I watched the spring game 5 or 6 times now on YouTube so I can rewind each play and not only did he not make one play, he did not SHED ONE BLOCK. Watch the film, he was also slow and undersized. This isn't about him this is about Kristofic. There is no reason to attack chase for saying he's a different situation then Wardlow, Mccollister, Tiassum, Mokwah, Ashton White, etc.

Jesus you’re stupid.

I’m not saying Wardlow is a good player simply because he was recruited late, and Langham was recruited late as well.

I’m saying Wardlow is a good prospect, period. Individual a valuation, not based on his recruiting ranking tells you that. Yes, he’s a project that needs a lot of development, but he’s also the most athletic player we have on the line, with Hayes (a former 5*) Being the only player that’s even close.

If you actually think he’s slow, relative to his position, then you have absolutely no business attempting to evaluate film. That’s just idiotic.

Then, you’ve gone ahead and prove my point for me. Thank you!

This moronic assertion that recruiting rankings and timing somehow dictate the quality of a prospect is so useless that it’s caused you to a group together both good prospects and bad prospects and attempt to argue that they’re all the same.

 

[NDIRISH53]

Jesus you’re stupid.

I’m not saying Wardlow is a good player simply because he was recruited late, and Langham was recruited late as well.

I’m saying Wardlow is a good prospect, period. Individual a valuation, not based on his recruiting ranking tells you that. Yes, he’s a project that needs a lot of development, but he’s also the most athletic player we have on the line, with Hayes (a former 5*) Being the only player that’s even close.

If you actually think he’s slow, relative to his position, then you have absolutely no business attempting to evaluate film. That’s just idiotic.

Then, you’ve gone ahead and prove my point for me. Thank you!

This moronic assertion that recruiting rankings and timing somehow dictate the quality of a prospect is so useless that it’s caused you to a group together both good prospects and bad prospects and attempt to argue that they’re all the same.

Dude... he's not good. My left nut can evaluate talent better than you. Watch him in the spring game, watch his high school tape. You're the same jabroni claiming tony jones is all that. Also the same genius that compared Michigan State's d ends to jj watt and clay Matthews.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Dude... he's not good. My left nut can evaluate talent better than you. Watch him in the spring game, watch his high school tape. You're the same jabroni claiming tony jones is all that. Also the same genius that compared Michigan State's d ends to jj watt and clay Matthews.

So you just have no idea what you’re talking about. Got it.

The people who evaluate one of the top rushing defenses in the country to be good, those people are the idiots.

The people whose evaluations on Notre Dame is RB line up with major do you want to head coaches, oh sees, and RB coaches… Those people are the idiots.

I have to tell you, I don’t meet many people as stupid as you. I really appreciate you providing me some entertainment, at your expense, in these last few threats.

Just a heads up, barring injury, Wardlow is going to be a really good player for us in a couple of seasons. He needs further development, but it’s obvious that his raw skills are great for the drop position

 

[NDIRISH53]

So you just have no idea what you’re talking about. Got it.

The people who evaluate one of the top rushing defenses in the country to be good, those people are the idiots.

The people whose evaluations on Notre Dame is RB line up with major do you want to head coaches, oh sees, and RB coaches… Those people are the idiots.

I have to tell you, I don’t meet many people as stupid as you. I really appreciate you providing me some entertainment, at your expense, in these last few threats.

Just a heads up, barring injury, Wardlow is going to be a really good player for us in a couple of seasons. He needs further development, but it’s obvious that his raw skills are great for the drop position

Tony jones will probably average about 3.9-4.2 ypc bro... what has he ever done that you've seen with your own eyes that has impressed you? Seriously, watch every snap Wardlow played in the spring game, and fine me ONE play where he shed a block, let alone made a play. The second team tackles were handling him like child's play you dope

 

[FriedmanIP]

Tony jones will probably average about 3.9-4.2 ypc bro... what has he ever done that you've seen with your own eyes that has impressed you? Seriously, watch every snap Wardlow played in the spring game, and fine me ONE play where he shed a block, let alone made a play. The second team tackles were handling him like child's play you dope

Wow.
You just have no idea what you’re talking about do you?

You’re trying to draw major conclusions from a few snaps of a RS Frosh a few practice snaps a True Frosh who is redshirting?!! Really?

I don’t care about exactly what his stats are, those are too situationally and game based.

But Jones has shown good power and vision on the runs he does get, and enough quickness to be efficient hitting holes.

He’ll never be a game breaking RB and probably not an NFL RB, but he can definitely be an efficient and effective RB at the major college level, who allows an offense to be efficient...and still explosive if they have other players who can provide that aspect.

He’s a good CFB RB prospect, with 3 years of eligibility left...all of which he’s likely to use at ND, imo.

 

[NDIRISH53]

Wow.
You just have no idea what you’re talking about do you?

You’re trying to draw major conclusions from a few snaps of a RS Frosh a few practice snaps a True Frosh who is redshirting?!! Really?

I don’t care about exactly what his stats are, those are too situationally and game based.

But Jones has shown good power and vision on the runs he does get, and enough quickness to be efficient hitting holes.

He’ll never be a game breaking RB and probably not an NFL RB, but he can definitely be an efficient and effective RB at the major college level, who allows an offense to be efficient...and still explosive if they have other players who can provide that aspect.

He’s a good CFB RB prospect, with 3 years of eligibility left...all of which he’s likely to use at ND, imo.

He played probably 35 snaps in that game and did not shed ONE block! How is that nothing?

 

[twalsh]

Unfortunately, I’m not as high on him as rivals is either. I still think he’s a good prospect, and that’s why so many schools were interested in him and he’s rated highly.

But I don’t feel he’s quite as good as his ranking indicates.

Yet another failure of using recruiting rankings to evaluate an individual, known prospect.

Failure on whose part? People on a message board?

 

[FriedmanIP]

Failure on whose part? People on a message board?

On the part of anyone who evaluates a known, individually prospect based primarily on his recruiting ranking.

 

[FriedmanIP]

He played probably 35 snaps in that game and did not shed ONE block! How is that nothing?

He’s a True Freshman in the process of redshirting! Not to mention he was a “high upside project” when recruited, whose largest deficiencies we in technique and strength.

Shedding blocks is going to be one of the things he’s worst at early in his career, and his career has barely even started!

He should be a good player and for us by his 3rd year in the system.

 

[zonairish]

I do not know how all these services can get a player properly rated. so they have to rely on schools that do evaluations. Like Kristofic being a 3 *. These camps are where a number of players receive ratings and if you do not go to camps your rating has to be reduced or least not fully valued. I do see where some posters here are saying maybe the coaching staff reached on some recruits in prior recruiting cycles hoping that they could coach them up. I think that happened on some of the D-line recruitment in the past. However, I do not think that is occurring now. To me, the star rating thing is a dark art. It is part what size and speed does this guy have in the ideal world and then its film. And these services do not have the time to be 100% accurate. Generally, I would trust the coaching staff on evals, not the services as much. to be disappointed that Kritofic is part of the class is silly. He was evaluated by coaches and then to say there is minimal value in the services that would be silly. Trust the coaches and use the services as strong guidelines

 

[NDAFArly]

Look at the kid’s offer sheet.

Clemson was coming at him hard the last few weeks. Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia, etc all wanted him bad. He did an unofficial to Alabama & they were trying to get an OV from him.

Something coaches know & fans (and recruiting services) don’t is upside. The kid is only 260 lbs because he is also a basketball player who has been to two straight State Final Fours. Once he isn’t playing basketball & is in a college football weight program he will be 300 lbs & a dynamo with his quick feet & great technique. Multiple coaches have called him the “dream tackle” prospect. His upside is huge.

 

[JACKY6996]

Look at the kid’s offer sheet.

Clemson was coming at him hard the last few weeks. Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia, etc all wanted him bad. He did an unofficial to Alabama & they were trying to get an OV from him.

Something coaches know & fans (and recruiting services) don’t is upside. The kid is only 260 lbs because he is also a basketball player who has been to two straight State Final Fours. Once he isn’t playing basketball & is in a college football weight program he will be 300 lbs & a dynamo with his quick feet & great technique. Multiple coaches have called him the “dream tackle” prospect. His upside is huge.

I'm from pine richland, he was a former QB in middle school and varsity coaches asked him to bulk up. I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 270-280 range for his SR year. He was a monster on both sides of the ball for the state championship football team. Almost unblockable on defense with his size and athleticism. I think he's criminally underrated and will be a stud at the next level playing for ND coaches.

 

[NDAFArly]

I'm from pine richland, he was a former QB in middle school and varsity coaches asked him to bulk up. I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 270-280 range for his SR year. He was a monster on both sides of the ball for the state championship football team. Almost unblockable on defense with his size and athleticism. I think he's criminally underrated and will be a stud at the next level playing for ND coaches.

I know for a fact the ND football analyst loves him. And the ND coaches evidently had him way up on their board. He’s a kid who will be starting at tackle at ND in 3 years probably.