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Kelly isn't the Problem... sort of.

Irish_inPSU

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I don't post a great deal anymore as life with kids, wife, mortgage, etc take up most of my time. I do however read a lot and of course follow the Irish closely. I was as torn up by the Texas loss as anyone, and was even more disturbed by the blowout (score doesn't reflect how bad it was) to MSU. However, I never thought ND would be overly great this season. I had them at 9-3 at best given the losses from last year and the dismissals we saw before season.

ND's cupboards are not as full as teams we would like to see ND being (OSu, Alabama, etc.), so replacing guys can be taxing. I don't think it should be this taxing though. ND's talent level is good, especially on offense, but the defense is lacking significantly and has since Kelly took the helm. He's an offensive guy plain and simple. I think most of us agree that no matter how explosive your offense is, no matter how many points you can rack up, sooner or later someone will figure you out and either shut you down all together, or slow you down enough to compete and keep a game tight. Sooner or later you will need to play some hard nose defense. This is where ND is failing significantly and the dreams of an undefeated season will never be realized until they start fielding top tier defenses. You may be able to get away with lesser defenses in the PAC12 or BIG12, but playing against BIG10, some ACC and SEC teams require stout defenses to be successful.

I believe the offense is as good and as capable as anyone. I really do. I believe we can credit Kelly for most of this. Thats his bread and butter. They are very very dangerous with the ball in their hands. But I also think its on Kelly to make sure the defense is where it needs to be. Not directly on him, but I think Van Gorder needs to go and Kelly needs to hire the very best D coordinator and staff he can to assemble the defense of their choosing. In other words, stay out of all defensive matters Kelly and stick with what you do best (offense). Van Gorder defenses are too complicated apparently and severely lack fundamentals. I've never seen so many guys out of position. I've never seen so many audibles on defense that takes them out of play. Don't get me started about the missed tackles.

I think the excuse of admissions, etc is somewhat warranted, but I have to believe that if someone like Stanford can field great or at the very least solid defenses, so can ND. I would put a Stanford D up against anyone year in or year out. They're always solid and thats all ND really needs, a solid defense.

I don't know, just my two cents for what its worth. All I know is with even a decent defense, ND would be 3-0 right now.
 
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BK is a LOYAL HC......but if there is not evidence of improvement by season's end BVG will be gone.

I agree that our HOPE that ND could reload was wrong. Now we want to just GET BETTER every week and get at least one true UPSET to be proud of.

The reality for the 2016 Irish is that the OFFENSE needs to be a prolific scoring-machine and if the D can get a few stops we win by 1.

Just Do It Irish!!!
 
BK is a LOYAL HC......but if there is not evidence of improvement by season's end BVG will be gone.

I agree that our HOPE that ND could reload was wrong. Now we want to just GET BETTER every week and get at least one true UPSET to be proud of.

The reality for the 2016 Irish is that the OFFENSE needs to be a prolific scoring-machine and if the D can get a few stops we win by 1.

Just Do It Irish!!!


348, BVG needs to go regardless of any improvement. Kelly needs to be tough on these assistants
 
The defense is not going to get any better with BVG on the staff. ND does not need a NFL defense. It needs a college defense and a DC who understands that college offense run different kinds of offenses, unlike the NFL.
 
In year 7 Kelly should not have to reload. If he was recruiting correctly, finding his "RKG", and successful in player development, we would have depth and experience.
 
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I don't post a great deal anymore as life with kids, wife, mortgage, etc take up most of my time. I do however read a lot and of course follow the Irish closely. I was as torn up by the Texas loss as anyone, and was even more disturbed by the blowout (score doesn't reflect how bad it was) to MSU. However, I never thought ND would be overly great this season. I had them at 9-3 at best given the losses from last year and the dismissals we saw before season.

ND's cupboards are not as full as teams we would like to see ND being (OSu, Alabama, etc.), so replacing guys can be taxing. I don't think it should be this taxing though. ND's talent level is good, especially on offense, but the defense is lacking significantly and has since Kelly took the helm. He's an offensive guy plain and simple. I think most of us agree that no matter how explosive your offense is, no matter how many points you can rack up, sooner or later someone will figure you out and either shut you down all together, or slow you down enough to compete and keep a game tight. Sooner or later you will need to play some hard nose defense. This is where ND is failing significantly and the dreams of an undefeated season will never be realized until they start fielding top tier defenses. You may be able to get away with lesser defenses in the PAC12 or BIG12, but playing against BIG10, some ACC and SEC teams require stout defenses to be successful.

I believe the offense is as good and as capable as anyone. I really do. I believe we can credit Kelly for most of this. Thats his bread and butter. They are very very dangerous with the ball in their hands. But I also think its on Kelly to make sure the defense is where it needs to be. Not directly on him, but I think Van Gorder needs to go and Kelly needs to hire the very best D coordinator and staff he can to assemble the defense of their choosing. In other words, stay out of all defensive matters Kelly and stick with what you do best (offense). Van Gorder defenses are too complicated apparently and severely lack fundamentals. I've never seen so many guys out of position. I've never seen so many audibles on defense that takes them out of play. Don't get me started about the missed tackles.

I think the excuse of admissions, etc is somewhat warranted, but I have to believe that if someone like Stanford can field great or at the very least solid defenses, so can ND. I would put a Stanford D up against anyone year in or year out. They're always solid and thats all ND really needs, a solid defense.

I don't know, just my two cents for what its worth. All I know is with even a decent defense, ND would be 3-0 right now.


Stop with the offense myths. Mr Potato Head's numbers tell a different story. It's clueless fans like you giving him credit where none is warranted that are a problem. Read it and weep....

2010
Total O 61
Scoring O 66

2011
Total O 35
Scoring O 49

2012
Total O 54
Scoring O 80

2013
Total O 68
Scoring O 74

2014
Total O 34
Scoring O 40

2015
Total O 27
Scoring O 34

2016
Total O 60
Scoring O 41
 
BK is a LOYAL HC......but if there is not evidence of improvement by season's end BVG will be gone.

I agree that our HOPE that ND could reload was wrong. Now we want to just GET BETTER every week and get at least one true UPSET to be proud of.

The reality for the 2016 Irish is that the OFFENSE needs to be a prolific scoring-machine and if the D can get a few stops we win by 1.

Just Do It Irish!!!

So, Porky is now a "loyal HC".... Explain his ditching CMU pre bowl...explain him ditching undefeated cinci pre Sugar Bowl leaving his team in tears.... explain him ditching ND 1 day after his 'bama implosion to interview with the Eagles. You're just a clueless shill...
 
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Recruitment has improved greatly since Coach Elston took over as recruiting coordinator. The NFL has hurt ND since it's taken so many talented juniors over the last few years. The junior and senior classes have been drained by career ending injuries, the draft, transfers, players giving up football; but that happens. This current recruiting class seems to be adding much needed depth for next year. The class needs to close out more players like Donovan Jeter. It would be beyond stupid to force Coach Kelly out. He will get the job done for ND. I have never suggested Mike Elston for DC, though I think he would do well, because he's doing such a great job as recruiting coordinator.
Always an excuse. Maybe if Kelly could actually get a big lead on crappy teams, he could get the backups the playing time that they need so we would not be in this situation.
 
Recruitment has improved greatly since Coach Elston took over as recruiting coordinator. The NFL has hurt ND since it's taken so many talented juniors over the last few years. The junior and senior classes have been drained by career ending injuries, the draft, transfers, players giving up football; but that happens. This current recruiting class seems to be adding much needed depth for next year. The class needs to close out more players like Donovan Jeter. It would be beyond stupid to force Coach Kelly out. He will get the job done for ND. I have never suggested Mike Elston for DC, though I think he would do well, because he's doing such a great job as recruiting coordinator.

Crap. I thought you were leaving. You are what's wrong with ND fans. The excuse making has to stop...
 
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Any posters out there who really follow college football have ideas as to a new DC? I'm serious. BVG is gone, that is clear but we'll have to wait out this season (I too had us 9-3 due to all the talent that is now playing on Sundays, a new offensive line, and a young and depleted d that has just underperformed in scheme and fundamentals since Diaco left.)

Who can we get???? Any young lions out there coaching in relative obscurity who want to help a 2017 team with tons of talent -- get to the dance?! (We need to convince McGlinchey and Kizer to pull a Martin/Manti and stick around for a year that could be special.... )

But we will need a defense!!!!

D coordinators: I want names.
 
So, Porky is now a "loyal HC".... Explain his ditching CMU pre bowl...explain him ditching undefeated cinci pre Sugar Bowl leaving his team in tears.... explain him ditching ND 1 day after his 'bama implosion to interview with the Eagles. You're just a clueless shill...

Gimme a break. Most coaches leave their old jobs pre-bowl to go to their new job to get started with recruiting, etc.
 
Gimme a break. Most coaches leave their old jobs pre-bowl to go to their new job to get started with recruiting, etc.

Are we talking "craptastic" bowls?
Or, are we talking ditching undefeated teams heading into a major bowl?
I'm guessing that's rather rare...
Please provide definition/examples to "most".
 
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I really thought the Offense would outscore UT and MSU in spite of the D.
I did not weight the 'Kelly' factor heavily enough.
 
Here's where I have my biggest problem with the two losses. It seems as though Kelly has coached not to lose in the waning minutes of both games. Against Texas, you climb back into the game then avoid losing by blocking a PAT and returning it for 2 pts. Oh and you get the ball back on the kickoff, tied, with a chance to set up a game winning FG. Nothing happens. Very vanilla play calling with an offense that has suddenly found its rhythm. Then in OT your defense gives up a TD but makes Texas earn it. You score in 1 play on the road. Offense has all the momentum. In this situation all signs say go for two. Win the game here with your hot hand. Instead he kicks and then puts the fate of the game on the defense. Last Saturday, it's 3rd and 2. In my opinion, given the situation, this is 2 down territory. You don't throw the football and you cant take a sack. ND does both. Now it's 4th and a long 6. He punts and again, expects the defense to get the ball back from a team built to salt away a lead. In both these instances the weaker portion of the team was asked to extend the game or win it.
 
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If ND is going to firer BVG today, then the new DC has to come from within. Hell, anyone on the staff now can do a better job then BVG has been doing.
 
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Here's where I have my biggest problem with the two losses. It seems as though Kelly has coached not to lose in the waning minutes of both games. Against Texas, you climb back into the game then avoid losing by blocking a PAT and returning it for 2 pts. Oh and you get the ball back on the kickoff, tied, with a chance to set up a game winning FG. Nothing happens. Very vanilla play calling with an offense that has suddenly found its rhythm. Then in OT your defense gives up a TD but makes Texas earn it. You score in 1 play on the road. Offense has all the momentum. In this situation all signs say go for two. Win the game here with your hot hand. Instead he kicks and then puts the fate of the game on the defense. Last Saturday, it's 3rd and 2. In my opinion, given the situation, this is 2 down territory. You don't throw the football and you cant take a sack. ND does both. Now it's 4th and a long 6. He punts and again, expects the defense to get the ball back from a team built to salt away a lead. In both these instances the weaker portion of the team was asked to extend the game or win it.

Excellent. (You missed the timeout call which imo was huge for a number of reasons)

Piling on: We were in 4 down territory vs msu and had 3rd and 2. 2 downs to get 2 yards...
Kizer needs to move the chains.... Instead he gets sacked, we call timeout and punt...
It's obvious to anyone that has an ounce of FB knowledge that Porky had zero plan for that situation, recklessly burned a timeout and then choked big time.
PS I had tried to forget the Texas BS...now I am ticked again...
 
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Excellent. (You missed the timeout call which imo was huge for a number of reasons)

Piling on: We were in 4 down territory vs msu and had 3rd and 2. 2 downs to get 2 yards...
Kizer needs to move the chains.... Instead he gets sacked, we call timeout and punt...
It's obvious to anyone that has an ounce of FB knowledge that Porky had zero plan for that situation, recklessly burned a timeout and then choked big time.
PS I had tried to forget the Texas BS...now I am ticked again...
I have a special teams book with contributions by numerous NCAA coaches. Urban Meyer, a championship coach BTW, hint....hint... sarcasm, does a piece on 2 point play situations and describes various game scenarios he had and his justification for going for 2 and not going for 2. And one of his biggest points was when you are on the road and you have momentum late, sometimes its best to try to win the game on the last play.
 
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Are we talking "craptastic" bowls?
Or, are we talking ditching undefeated teams heading into a major bowl?
I'm guessing that's rather rare...
Please provide definition/examples to "most".

It happens just about every year with several teams. And as far as Kelly/Cincinnati, I recall Kelly stating at the time that if Cincy had made the NCG, he would've turned down the ND job and stayed there. But even though it was a big bowl, it wasn't the NCG, so he moved on to a better job.

And who knows, maybe ND required him to come right away, as part of the deal. We don't know the details.
 
I have a special teams book with contributions by numerous NCAA coaches. Urban Meyer, a championship coach BTW, hint....hint... sarcasm, does a piece on 2 point play situations and describes various game scenarios he had and his justification for going for 2 and not going for 2. And one of his biggest points was when you are on the road and you have momentum late, sometimes its best to try to win the game on the last play.

It's an old adage about being on the road and going for the win and not the tie...

(The Raiders recently pulled it off in NO)
 
It happens just about every year with several teams. And as far as Kelly/Cincinnati, I recall Kelly stating at the time that if Cincy had made the NCG, he would've turned down the ND job and stayed there. But even though it was a big bowl, it wasn't the NCG, so he moved on to a better job.

And who knows, maybe ND required him to come right away, as part of the deal. We don't know the details.

I never read this and that's not to say he didn't say it:
"And as far as Kelly/Cincinnati, I recall Kelly stating at the time that if Cincy had made the NCG, he would've turned down the ND job and stayed there."

I did read about his players calling him a liar and crying...
 
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I never read this and that's not to say he didn't say it:
"And as far as Kelly/Cincinnati, I recall Kelly stating at the time that if Cincy had made the NCG, he would've turned down the ND job and stayed there."

I did read about his players calling him a liar and crying...

I heard him say it. It was in one of his early press conferences. I think it was in response to a question from the media.
 
BK is a LOYAL HC......but if there is not evidence of improvement by season's end BVG will be gone.

I agree that our HOPE that ND could reload was wrong. Now we want to just GET BETTER every week and get at least one true UPSET to be proud of.

The reality for the 2016 Irish is that the OFFENSE needs to be a prolific scoring-machine and if the D can get a few stops we win by 1.

Just Do It Irish!!!
After all this time ND is not reloaded capable?
 

  1. BodizephaxI've posted how many times?
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    Hopefully Swarbrick can convince Coach Kelly to step down after the season. I like Coach Kelly but I love the Irish and want to get to the next level.
    Coach Kelly has done a good job making the Irish job attractive again for the next coach. I hope the Irish can get a top notch outside hire but if they can't just hire Mike Denbrock.

    I eat my crow in thinking this Irish team was destined for Greatness !

    Hats off to Texas and Michigan State.

    *** I will still cheer for the Irish for all their games but I might skip a few and won't get really interested until they become relevant again. I wish we could get a coach like Urban Meyer.

    *** But I refuse to trash the current staff or team. I wish them all the success.

    *** And God bless all of you Irish fans !

    1 Bodizephax, Saturday at 11:32 PM
    captstabbin likes this.
 
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I heard him say it. It was in one of his early press conferences. I think it was in response to a question from the media.

Here's a link to all his PCs.... excellent site...

http://www.asapsports.com/show_player.php?id=19068

The quotes you are attributing to him don't exist there....maybe somewhere else...

Here's what he said then:

Q. Is there any regret about missing the Sugar Bowl against Florida?
BRIAN KELLY: Well, you know, you would always want it to end with the best story, and the best story would be I get to coach in the Sugar Bowl. But I'm here at Notre Dame now, and this is where I want to be. This is where I need to get to work immediately. So yeah, the story would be the coach stays with the team and finishes what he started. But in the calendar that we are in in college football, it just can't happen.
And you know that going in. You know that it's not going to be easy. We're trying to make it as easy as possible. I love those guys back there in Cincinnati. I'm always going to be a Bearcat fan unless we have to play them. But you know, we try to make that work, but it's sometimes just impossible.
Thank you very much.

Martin did stick out the NC game...

Q. You talked about a great line of coaches that you have that you can call on. GVSU Chuck Martin said you had called on him to come to Central with you, you called on him to come to Cincinnati; will you be calling on him to come to Notre Dame?
BRIAN KELLY: I think there's a time and a place for that. Chuck right now is getting prepared for the National Championship game. I think we're going to let him focus on that, on his football team, and Chuck and I are good friends. We're going to talk no matter what because I'm going to call him Saturday night and congratulate him on winning another National Championship because he's a tremendous football coach.
 
7 years is enough time.. the program is not where needs to be.
Time to move on....
 
^^^^ someone .....agrees with you ..... guess who?

"Location:
A trailer park
Hopefully Swarbrick can convince Coach Kelly to step down after the season. I like Coach Kelly but I love the Irish and want to get to the next level.
Coach Kelly has done a good job making the Irish job attractive again for the next coach. I hope the Irish can get a top notch outside hire but if they can't just hire Mike Denbrock.

I eat my crow in thinking this Irish team was destined for Greatness !"
 
Here's a link to all his PCs.... excellent site...

http://www.asapsports.com/show_player.php?id=19068

The quotes you are attributing to him don't exist there....maybe somewhere else...

Here's what he said then:

Q. Is there any regret about missing the Sugar Bowl against Florida?
BRIAN KELLY: Well, you know, you would always want it to end with the best story, and the best story would be I get to coach in the Sugar Bowl. But I'm here at Notre Dame now, and this is where I want to be. This is where I need to get to work immediately. So yeah, the story would be the coach stays with the team and finishes what he started. But in the calendar that we are in in college football, it just can't happen.
And you know that going in. You know that it's not going to be easy. We're trying to make it as easy as possible. I love those guys back there in Cincinnati. I'm always going to be a Bearcat fan unless we have to play them. But you know, we try to make that work, but it's sometimes just impossible.
Thank you very much.

Martin did stick out the NC game...

Q. You talked about a great line of coaches that you have that you can call on. GVSU Chuck Martin said you had called on him to come to Central with you, you called on him to come to Cincinnati; will you be calling on him to come to Notre Dame?
BRIAN KELLY: I think there's a time and a place for that. Chuck right now is getting prepared for the National Championship game. I think we're going to let him focus on that, on his football team, and Chuck and I are good friends. We're going to talk no matter what because I'm going to call him Saturday night and congratulate him on winning another National Championship because he's a tremendous football coach.

It may have been in some other interview (than a formal press conference). But I specifically remember him saying that if Cincy had made the NCG, he would've stayed there, because playing for the NC is the ultimate goal in his profession.

But again, I don't have a problem with his having left Cincy right away. The December-early Jan. period is huge in recruiting, which is why most coaches in similar situations do the same thing.
 
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