Justify this......

[88ND]

If Alabama wins out they are in. Deservedly?
If we win out we MIGHT be in. Deservedly?

Let's compare....
Alabama has one loss.
ND has one loss.
Alabama's loss was to a now very average Ole Miss team. Home game for Bama. Yes they had some turnovers but this Ole Miss team is not in the upper echelon. Not even close.

Notre Dame's loss was to everyone's #1 team in the land. At their place in a monsoon. Turnovers..all 4 of them. Yet they could have won that game!!!

If they had to remove a one loss team to make room for another undefeated IMO it should be Alabama. Their worst is worse than ours.....

comparing our best....
it's a wash.
Everyone went ape shit when the tide demolished LSU. Yeah??? So did Arkansas.

Hopefully they can remain the same and it would be fitting

to have a semi of Clemson vs ND and OSU and Alabama. Rematch on both counts so to speak yet the final game will have a new wrinkle.

 

[NDSMC78]

Yeah, we needed a whole new thread on this. You haven't expressed your opinions on this very issue enough times before.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Yeah, we needed a whole new thread on this. You haven't expressed your opinions on this very issue enough times before.

Hey, it's a message board, post as you will. The goal being to foster actual discussion on a subject. I agree with the OP

 

[Toby Smart]

I am of the mindset of taking care of your own business. ND had multi opportunities to put Clemson away and none of this would be an issue. What's remarkable is the players and staff are accomplishing this season with major injury after major injury and still getting it done. It's not fully appreciated outside the ND community IMHO. I don't think many other programs can take these kind of hits to starter after starter and still be in the conversation. DK alone is an unbelievable story. That is why I am casting my ballot for BK and staff as "Coaches of the Year". What are the chances of Charleston Southern doing ND a solid by knocking off Bama? Charleston is ranked 9 in FCS. They are sporting the #1 defense. They have a very potent rushing offense. It could be...it might be.....will it be?

 

[TimTerrific]

Just win out.

There are many more shoes to drop.

OSU, both of them may lose!

Iowa will probably lose!

OU will probably lose!

Clemson will probably lose and UNC at 17 with a terrible SOS will not move into the top four.

Win out and ND may well be 2 !

 

[South Bender]

Yeah, we needed a whole new thread on this. You haven't expressed your opinions on this very issue enough times before.

And yet you responded.....

 

[IRISHJD98]

If Alabama wins out they are in. Deservedly?
If we win out we MIGHT be in. Deservedly?

Let's compare....
Alabama has one loss.
ND has one loss.
Alabama's loss was to a now very average Ole Miss team. Home game for Bama. Yes they had some turnovers but this Ole Miss team is not in the upper echelon. Not even close.

Notre Dame's loss was to everyone's #1 team in the land. At their place in a monsoon. Turnovers..all 4 of them. Yet they could have won that game!!!

If they had to remove a one loss team to make room for another undefeated IMO it should be Alabama. Their worst is worse than ours.....

comparing our best....
it's a wash.
Everyone went ape shit when the tide demolished LSU. Yeah??? So did Arkansas.

Hopefully they can remain the same and it would be fitting

to have a semi of Clemson vs ND and OSU and Alabama. Rematch on both counts so to speak yet the final game will have a new wrinkle.

Clemson had over two weeks to prepare for the Irish too. So as far as losses go, I think our loss looks better than Bama's.

I think this Irish team has a lot going for it. We've played a bunch of teams that have extra time to prepare, which (to me) means overall opposing coaches have collectively done an excellent job of probing our weaknesses. And in response we've found ways to get better, which is something good teams do.

But without a "signature win" (I really don't like that term), our claim to the playoff relies in part on the strength of our overall schedule. You can argue the same for Bama - I agree that LSU is offensively one-dimensional in a way that worked into Bama's strengths. But as much as I'd like it to be otherwise, I think Bama's overall schedule has been tougher than ours.

IMO, being the team with the "best loss" only goes so far. I think the Committee has things close enough for now.

 

[88ND]

Clemson had over two weeks to prepare for the Irish too. So as far as losses go, I think our loss looks better than Bama's.

I think this Irish team has a lot going for it. We've played a bunch of teams that have extra time to prepare, which (to me) means overall opposing coaches have collectively done an excellent job of probing our weaknesses. And in response we've found ways to get better, which is something good teams do.

But without a "signature win" (I really don't like that term), our claim to the playoff relies in part on the strength of our overall schedule. You can argue the same for Bama - I agree that LSU is offensively one-dimensional in a way that worked into Bama's strengths. But as much as I'd like it to be otherwise, I think Bama's overall schedule has been tougher than ours.

IMO, being the team with the "best loss" only goes so far. I think the Committee has things close enough for now.

I agree with the above however...I wouldn't put the schedule of Bama ahead of ND this year. No way. In the last ten years potentially yes because the SEC has been very strong......but they are down this year and it really started the year after we played Bama in the title game.

People seem to forget these things run in cycles. The 80's were dominated by Miami, Penn State, Oklahoma later 80's it was Notre Dame.into the early 90's. Then it was the Nebraska show, Michigan etc...
The Sec had a nice run recently but things have shifted now. You will see.

Moreover I believe the schedule this year from an eye test is much tougher than Alabama's.

Alabama has played one passing team to date. Just one. They lost. Every other SEC school this year is one dimensional. They always run the ball down there...(they took a page from the midwest, penn state book) on how to dominate an era ...
but this year in particular the sec is extra run heavy. Or better put they have nobody that can throw legit. One team. Ole Miss. The very team who beat them.

Notre Dame has faced, the option twice, the spread attack multiple times. A pro set conventional type in USC. ANd after Stanford ...Stanford runs a little bit of everything their schedule will have been full of good teams that run all types of offensive styles.

 

[Pennick4]

Yeah, we needed a whole new thread on this. You haven't expressed your opinions on this very issue enough times before.

When did you get annointed King of the board?

 

[HRC08]

These rankings aren't made in a vacuum.

Everybody that follows CF knows that Bama's won 3 titles recently and 6 recruiting titles.

Ohio State's the defending champ and returned their best offensive and defensive weapons. They've earned the benefit of the doubt.

ND went 8-5 last season. Our team has no such benefit of doubt.

 

[Toby Smart]

Who is Bama's signature win? Who is OSU's signature win?

 

[IRISHJD98]

I agree with the above however...I wouldn't put the schedule of Bama ahead of ND this year. No way. In the last ten years potentially yes because the SEC has been very strong......but they are down this year and it really started the year after we played Bama in the title game.

People seem to forget these things run in cycles. The 80's were dominated by Miami, Penn State, Oklahoma later 80's it was Notre Dame.into the early 90's. Then it was the Nebraska show, Michigan etc...
The Sec had a nice run recently but things have shifted now. You will see.

Moreover I believe the schedule this year from an eye test is much tougher than Alabama's.

Alabama has played one passing team to date. Just one. They lost. Every other SEC school this year is one dimensional. They always run the ball down there...(they took a page from the midwest, penn state book) on how to dominate an era ...
but this year in particular the sec is extra run heavy. Or better put they have nobody that can throw legit. One team. Ole Miss. The very team who beat them.

Notre Dame has faced, the option twice, the spread attack multiple times. A pro set conventional type in USC. ANd after Stanford ...Stanford runs a little bit of everything their schedule will have been full of good teams that run all types of offensive styles.

I get what you're saying. Comparing schedules is pretty subjective, so there's going to be disagreement. And conferences do have their tendencies, which makes comparing stats subjective and difficult too. We don't see enough teams playing quality out of conference match-ups in the regular season, so we really don't know how teams compare until the bowl games. I'll be interested in seeing how Florida-Florida St. and then (I assume) Florida-Alabama play out.

 

[chaseball]

Alabama is the best team in the country, and has been for the last 5 years or so.

Of course they are getting 'benefit of the doubt'

 

[IrishOkie07]

I live in Oklahoma and it's very rough being and Notre Dame and having to listen to all this OU and OSU talk. I think our best bet is to have OU win out and beat OSU on Thanksgiving...

 

[IrishBlooded]

If Alabama wins out they are in. Deservedly?
If we win out we MIGHT be in. Deservedly?

Let's compare....
Alabama has one loss.
ND has one loss.
Alabama's loss was to a now very average Ole Miss team. Home game for Bama. Yes they had some turnovers but this Ole Miss team is not in the upper echelon. Not even close.

Notre Dame's loss was to everyone's #1 team in the land. At their place in a monsoon. Turnovers..all 4 of them. Yet they could have won that game!!!

If they had to remove a one loss team to make room for another undefeated IMO it should be Alabama. Their worst is worse than ours.....

comparing our best....
it's a wash.
Everyone went ape shit when the tide demolished LSU. Yeah??? So did Arkansas.

Hopefully they can remain the same and it would be fitting

to have a semi of Clemson vs ND and OSU and Alabama. Rematch on both counts so to speak yet the final game will have a new wrinkle.

Well if Notre Dame is getting the benefit of the doubt for having played a good schedule. That is what you have to do for Bama as well.

The Winning % for Alabama's opponents is: .616, and none of Alabama's opponents this year have a losing record. That is saying a lot. When you have a schedule that includes: Wisky, Texas AM, LSU, Arky, Georgia, Tennessee, and both Mississippi schools. Yes they also have Middle Tenn. St. in there. But even they are 5-5, and play in C-USA.

So now let's look at ND's opponents to this point: .556, and 5 of ND's opponents have losing records at this point, and 4 of those 5 have 3 wins, or less.

Looking at SoS you have Alabama at: the 3rd hardest schedule played to this point, and ND at the 25th.

And if you play out the schedules and what is expected. For Alabama to make the play off that means they will have had to their Division, and then won the SECCCG against Florida (currently ranked 8) on a neutral field.

Also they own the best recruiting class 4 out of the last 5 years, and have arguably the best coach and coaching staff in college football today. And they are basically healthy at the skill positions.

So if you are the playoff committee and your job is to evaluate the entire team in order to find the 4 best teams. I don't know how you leave Bama out.

Try this, name me 4 teams that you would put in to leave Bama out.

 

[mmboys07]

Yeah, we needed a whole new thread on this. You haven't expressed your opinions on this very issue enough times before.

Of course, some people don't sit on the computer all day, every day, and may have missed the earlier posts. I liked the post and thought it brought up an interesting point; not one I have considered before, since I don't sit on the computer all day, every day, and thus, missed the earlier threads on this subject.

 

[HRC08]

Who is Bama's signature win? Who is OSU's signature win?

Doesn't matter... they're the Kings and will be until somebody beats them. Same thing we all saw with FSU last season. They barely won game after game but stayed inside the top 4 all year.

 

[NDSMC78]

Geez, some of you guys have thin skin. Right now Sagarin has Bama with the # 3 SOS, and ND with the # 25 SOS. There is a penchant among some posters here for making all of ND's opponents larger than life while, at the same time, claiming that every other team's schedule is awful. The myopia is amazing.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Well if Notre Dame is getting the benefit of the doubt for having played a good schedule. That is what you have to do for Bama as well.

The Winning % for Alabama's opponents is: .616, and none of Alabama's opponents this year have a losing record. That is saying a lot. When you have a schedule that includes: Wisky, Texas AM, LSU, Arky, Georgia, Tennessee, and both Mississippi schools. Yes they also have Middle Tenn. St. in there. But even they are 5-5, and play in C-USA.

So now let's look at ND's opponents to this point: .556, and 5 of ND's opponents have losing records at this point, and 4 of those 5 have 3 wins, or less.

Looking at SoS you have Alabama at: the 3rd hardest schedule played to this point, and ND at the 25th.

And if you play out the schedules and what is expected. For Alabama to make the play off that means they will have had to their Division, and then won the SECCCG against Florida (currently ranked 8) on a neutral field.

Also they own the best recruiting class 4 out of the last 5 years, and have arguably the best coach and coaching staff in college football today. And they are basically healthy at the skill positions.

So if you are the playoff committee and your job is to evaluate the entire team in order to find the 4 best teams. I don't know how you leave Bama out.

Try this, name me 4 teams that you would put in to leave Bama out.

Irish, I, like probably the majority of people can live with the reasoning behind ranking Alabama in the top 4, my problem is with OSU. They've played no one, no ranked teams, ZERO. How do they warrant a top 4 ranking, a ranking that is not discussed, explained or questioned. Remember last is not suppose to have any baring on this season. You know, the CFP, where its suppose to be decided on the field. That's a crock of ... You know. The committee system is no better than the prior system.

 

[IrishBlooded]

Irish, I, like probably the majority of people can live with the reasoning behind ranking Alabama in the top 4, my problem is with OSU. They've played no one, no ranked teams, ZERO. How do they warrant a top 4 ranking, a ranking that is not discussed, explained or questioned. Remember last is not suppose to have any baring on this season. You know, the CFP, where its suppose to be decided on the field. That's a crock of ... You know. The committee system is no better than the prior system.

Well this thread was made about Alabama which is why I answered that to the best of my ability.

If you were to ask about Ohio State I would say this.

There is actually no rules for the playoff committee. There job is to 'pick' the best 4 teams in the nation using a list of variables. That list includes, SoS, roster, ball control, eye test, coaching ability, and injuries. And at the end of the season they said they will also weigh in conference champions.

To this point Ohio State has the 67th ranked SoS according to Sagarin. And even in his matrix he has them ranked 4th, and ND ranked 6th.

Here is the problem with them. They won it all last year. And returned basically everyone and everything they need to win again. And they haven't lost a game. This weekend will tell us a lot about them. Going into this season I had actually picked MSU to win the B1G. But they have an injury thing going on, damn near worse than ND does. So that doesn't look as likely anymore. However Ohio State is getting ready to play #9 MSU, @ #12 Michigan, and then most likely a #5 Iowa.

Back to back to back. If they run that. I doubt there will be much more arguing about them belonging.

 

[NDSMC78]

There is actually no rules for the playoff committee. There job is to 'pick' the best 4 teams in the nation using a list of variables. That list includes, SoS, roster, ball control, eye test, coaching ability, and injuries. And at the end of the season they said they will also weigh in conference champions.

This is correct. Each voter can use any criteria he (or she) wants to use. They don't have do to anything other than vote as they deem fit.

 

[IRISHJD98]

This is correct. Each voter can use any criteria he (or she) wants to use. They don't have do to anything other than vote as they deem fit.

But we got the playoff people were demanding, so that's okay.

 

[NDSMC78]

But we got the playoff people were demanding, so that's okay.

I said from the beginning I would rather have the selections based on the polls or some combination of the polls and computers. Twelve voters are too few for my taste.

 

[IrishBlooded]

But we got the playoff people were demanding, so that's okay.

Negative. Almost no one got the playoff they wanted.

What the fans wanted by and large was a 8 team play off with the top 8 selected by the computer programs used to pick the BCS rankings. Here is the problem.

All of the everyone that is in this business for money, that isn't in the SEC. Said you absolutely couldn't do that, because there would be a good chance for 3 SEC teams to get in there, and hog all the cash. So instead this crazy playoff committee was invented to drink shots and throw darts at a board.

 

[NDSMC78]

Negative. Almost no one got the playoff they wanted.

What the fans wanted by and large was a 8 team play off with the top 8 selected by the computer programs used to pick the BCS rankings.

I don't agree that "the fans" wanted an eight team playoff. A lot of people, myself included, thought four was plenty. I still don't like the idea of an eight team playoff.

 

[echowaker]

Well if Notre Dame is getting the benefit of the doubt for having played a good schedule. That is what you have to do for Bama as well.

The Winning % for Alabama's opponents is: .616, and none of Alabama's opponents this year have a losing record. That is saying a lot. When you have a schedule that includes: Wisky, Texas AM, LSU, Arky, Georgia, Tennessee, and both Mississippi schools. Yes they also have Middle Tenn. St. in there. But even they are 5-5, and play in C-USA.

So now let's look at ND's opponents to this point: .556, and 5 of ND's opponents have losing records at this point, and 4 of those 5 have 3 wins, or less.

Looking at SoS you have Alabama at: the 3rd hardest schedule played to this point, and ND at the 25th.

And if you play out the schedules and what is expected. For Alabama to make the play off that means they will have had to their Division, and then won the SECCCG against Florida (currently ranked 8) on a neutral field.

Also they own the best recruiting class 4 out of the last 5 years, and have arguably the best coach and coaching staff in college football today. And they are basically healthy at the skill positions.

So if you are the playoff committee and your job is to evaluate the entire team in order to find the 4 best teams. I don't know how you leave Bama out.

Try this, name me 4 teams that you would put in to leave Bama out.

well said. on a neutral field bama would be the favorite against every other team. sure they had a stinker loss at home and it took 5 turnovers and a fluke td pass . since then who is playing better week in and week out ? bama and Oklahoma right now are on a run similar to ohio st last year.

 

[South Bender]

I don't agree that "the fans" wanted an eight team playoff. A lot of people, myself included, thought four was plenty. I still don't like the idea of an eight team playoff.

I think you're giving way too much credit to "the fans". As in, thinking that they
use cognitive thought when determining playoff scenarios. They don't.

The average college football fan is a beer guzzling frat boy who doesn't give two shits
about the effect of a long, drawn out playoff system consisting of 8 or 12 teams. They
want as many teams in the playoff as possible. Just like the NFL.

Those that think a four team playoff is adequate would be in the minority.
Right or wrong - it's true.

 

[IrishBlooded]

well said. on a neutral field bama would be the favorite against every other team. sure they had a stinker loss at home and it took 5 turnovers and a fluke td pass . since then who is playing better week in and week out ? bama and Oklahoma right now are on a run similar to ohio st last year.

I have far more faith in Bama than in Oklahoma. The Sooners for all of their talk have a pretty weak schedule. And haven't looked very dominate vs it. I get you can't control the quality of your competition. But they have had failed to look to to be in control of some of those games.

And before everyone breaks out the 'but their stats are great'. Well look at who they have been playing. Their schedule has been easier than ND's. And ND hasn't played many lights out teams this year either. Oklahoma only has 1 win over a team with 7 wins this year. And that was last week, against a Baylor team that has played a schedule 1/2 has hard the cupcake lined schedule of Ohio State.

Lots of schools / conferences trying the back loading idea that ND used last year to try to bolster their rankings late in the season. Will see how that works out.

 

[NDSMC78]

I think you're giving way too much credit to "the fans". As in, thinking that they
use cognitive thought when determining playoff scenarios. They don't.

The average college football fan is a beer guzzling frat boy who doesn't give two shits
about the effect of a long, drawn out playoff system consisting of 8 or 12 teams. They
want as many teams in the playoff as possible. Just like the NFL.

Those that think a four team playoff is adequate would be in the minority.
Right or wrong - it's true.

Source for this claim?

 

[South Bender]

Source for this claim?

Attending countless college football games, tailgates, and my general
lack of faith in humanity in this day and age.

What's the source for your claim?

 

[NDSMC78]

Attending countless college football games, tailgates, and my general
lack of faith in humanity in this day and age.

What's the source for your claim?

My source for what claim? That a lot of fans think a four team playoff is fine? Posters on this board have said this many times.

 

[schadenfreude]

I think you're giving way too much credit to "the fans". As in, thinking that they
use cognitive thought when determining playoff scenarios. They don't.

The average college football fan is a beer guzzling frat boy who doesn't give two shits
about the effect of a long, drawn out playoff system consisting of 8 or 12 teams. They
want as many teams in the playoff as possible. Just like the NFL.

Those that think a four team playoff is adequate would be in the minority.
Right or wrong - it's true.

Agree. If it was left up to the fans, I think "we" would want 16 or even 32 teams. If increasing fan entertainment was the only goal, that would make sense.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

I have always been against a playoff, but if we have to have one, then the minimum number should be 8. Allowing for worthy representatives of the Power 5 and 3-at large teams.

Of course no matter how you come by which teams, some level of accountability by the voters, and transparency, should be provide to the fans. OSU is ranked third in the country, based on what? Out of 10 games only 3 of there opponents have winning records and 2 of them are MAC teams. No way in hell do they deserve that ranking based on what they've shown "ON THE FIELD". As long as this type of blatant bias, without any accountability exists, the CFP is really just a farce. A championship is NEVER actually earned on the field in college football.

 

[Johnnie82]

Personally I say the four team playoff is fine "only" because we were not going to get an 8 team playoff. 8 makes more sense. Looked at one way, you have one slot for each of the power 5 conferences and then you have 3 at large slots.

 

[NDSMC78]

I have always been against a playoff, but if we have to have one, then the minimum number should be 8. Allowing for worthy representatives of the Power 5 and 3-at large teams.

Of course no matter how you come by which teams, some level of accountability by the voters, and transparency, should be provide to the fans. OSU is ranked third in the country, based on what? Out of 10 games only 3 of there opponents have winning records and 2 of them are MAC teams. No way in hell do they deserve that ranking based on what they've shown "ON THE FIELD". As long as this type of blatant bias, without any accountability exists, the CFP is really just a farce. A championship is NEVER actually earned on the field in college football.

Funny. On the one hand, you excoriate the voters for putting Ohio St. in the top 4. But then, on the other hand, you want to have automatic bids for conference champions. This would likely result in that same Ohio St. team you say is undeserving getting an automatic bid.

 

[South Bender]

My source for what claim? That a lot of fans think a four team playoff is fine? Posters on this board have said this many times.

The posters on this board hardly make up the majority of college football fans.

If we are using this board as a barometer, I'd hazard a guess that if a poll was started on this board regarding 4 or 8 team playoff preferences - the side content with four teams would lose.

 

[NDSMC78]

The posters on this board hardly make up the majority of college football fans.

Nor are the folks with whom you tailgate in the parking lot.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Funny. On the one hand, you excoriate the voters for putting Ohio St. in the top 4. But then, on the other hand, you want to have automatic bids for conference champions. This would likely result in that same Ohio St. team you say is undeserving getting an automatic bid.

I didn't say anything about automatic bids. I said 8, because it provides a spot in the event you have qualifying participants.

 

[NDSMC78]

I didn't say anything about automatic bids. I said 8, because it provides a spot in the event you have qualifying participants.

Here are your exact words: I have always been against a playoff, but if we have to have one, then the minimum number should be 8. Allowing for worthy representatives of the Power 5 and 3-at large teams. Sounds like five automatic bids to me.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Here are your exact words: I have always been against a playoff, but if we have to have one, then the minimum number should be 8. Allowing for worthy representatives of the Power 5 and 3-at large teams. Sounds like five automatic bids to me.

The optimum word is "worthy", or did you miss that