Josh King Commits to Michigan State
- Thread starter SALittleGiant513
- Start date
Sal
I know you follow things and generally as far as defense is concerned, recruiting is a concern. To say Plan B is being considered is optimistic; ND is fast moving rung after rung down the talent ladder.
Now, I am not being specific to status currently, but way back when Kelly was looking like the NFL's darling, And posters were speculating, I said before any coach leaves or is dismissed there are red flags; unfortunately red flags are only verified as red flags after the fact; but it was my contention that one red flag is how aggresively a class is being recruited.
I see this class as a red flag; ND is not exhibiting a very attentive long range plan. Offers were late getting out and ND is being out recruited in many aspects of recruiting management. Even in Ind. ND is not faring well; part of the reason is trouble getting kids on campus as result of poor or non- exhisting relationships.
UM has had like 19 Jr. days; MSU has had several camps in Ind. ND has floundered. Recruiting is about relationships and ND is lagging.
A clear sign is the flurry of offers recently to 'commited' prospects. ND is late to the table. If this continues the effects will be felt in 2 years; hence a long term 'red flag'. but we know a long term, term as red flag will meet with the comment, "the sky is falling". Fail to plan- plan to fail.
I know you follow things and generally as far as defense is concerned, recruiting is a concern. To say Plan B is being considered is optimistic; ND is fast moving rung after rung down the talent ladder.
Now, I am not being specific to status currently, but way back when Kelly was looking like the NFL's darling, And posters were speculating, I said before any coach leaves or is dismissed there are red flags; unfortunately red flags are only verified as red flags after the fact; but it was my contention that one red flag is how aggresively a class is being recruited.
I see this class as a red flag; ND is not exhibiting a very attentive long range plan. Offers were late getting out and ND is being out recruited in many aspects of recruiting management. Even in Ind. ND is not faring well; part of the reason is trouble getting kids on campus as result of poor or non- exhisting relationships.
UM has had like 19 Jr. days; MSU has had several camps in Ind. ND has floundered. Recruiting is about relationships and ND is lagging.
A clear sign is the flurry of offers recently to 'commited' prospects. ND is late to the table. If this continues the effects will be felt in 2 years; hence a long term 'red flag'. but we know a long term, term as red flag will meet with the comment, "the sky is falling". Fail to plan- plan to fail.
Okwara is a talent but yes, I think the swing and misses on the Defensive line will be problematic in the long run.
whatever the ND message to recruits is, it is not resonating with prospects at this time.
I think the loss of Alford as a 'personal connection' to get the message across may be one factor.
Whatever, ND is being out-worked! red flag.
I think the loss of Alford as a 'personal connection' to get the message across may be one factor.
Whatever, ND is being out-worked! red flag.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
K
True, but, Kareem is announcing without a ND visit. As of Today it would look like ND is going o-fer it's remaining midwest targets at the hands of MSU and UM. ND is a distant 4th to tOSU,MSU,UM.
Ara:
True, but, Kareem is announcing without a ND visit. As of Today it would look like ND is going o-fer it's remaining midwest targets at the hands of MSU and UM. ND is a distant 4th to tOSU,MSU,UM.
Hard to flip elite DL. Saying we have had the best tent in years needs to be a reminder how poorly other coaches were at bringing in talent consistently. Not sure how much of a red flag it is but DL recruitment has always been on of BKS weak spots.
gipper
is that recent news? that would be huge; articles recent are all about MSU going for the sweep defensively + Corley.
It only takes 1 to reverse momentum!
Sal: as said red flags aren't red flags till 'the fat Lady sings'
is that recent news? that would be huge; articles recent are all about MSU going for the sweep defensively + Corley.
It only takes 1 to reverse momentum!
Sal: as said red flags aren't red flags till 'the fat Lady sings'
I only had 2 beers with dinner last night and I woke up and it is February 2016. As one poster on another site aptly wrote that recruiting is a process and not an event. I recently read of a ND reporter(as close to the scene as any) said that he thought that the organization of this recruiting effort is much improved over our previous recruiting coordinator.
It was a response to Pennick. Recruiting is a process and it is true that Feb 2016 is a long time away but... A lot of the big DL are committing now or this summer. DL that are elite are not known for their flipping and when they do flip in the past it has not been ND doing the flipping.
This new staff may have a much more organized and better plan of attack for recruiting. I know that they have put in a ton of miles already and they seem to be very active.
That being said, just because this staff seems to have a better plan for the recruiting cycle then last the staff last year doesn't eliminate the fact that DL recruiting has been a weakness for a while now.
This new staff may have a much more organized and better plan of attack for recruiting. I know that they have put in a ton of miles already and they seem to be very active.
That being said, just because this staff seems to have a better plan for the recruiting cycle then last the staff last year doesn't eliminate the fact that DL recruiting has been a weakness for a while now.
^ and it has been an ongoing weakness; were are the signs that things will suddenly change!
(every such thread is ultimately met with:
1 it is early
2. it is only June
3. it is only Sept
.
.
Then ultimately explanations that there is plenty of depth as is.
But, it does seem Gilmore has specific targets and is all in on them; if he succeeds it may be what ND needs;
if not then, it's wait till next year.
(every such thread is ultimately met with:
1 it is early
2. it is only June
3. it is only Sept
.
.
Then ultimately explanations that there is plenty of depth as is.
But, it does seem Gilmore has specific targets and is all in on them; if he succeeds it may be what ND needs;
if not then, it's wait till next year.
A common thread among recruits is the importance of the relationship and building trust over time. I think this is even more important for the universities that have high academic requirements and emphasis on the quality education they offer. Many of these relationships begin when these young men are sophomores in high school. ND went through some major changes in its coaches this year and they are playing catch up. Gilmore was already recruiting major defensive line talent, and we should expect him to land a few gems. There is no denying that we have struggled in this area, but hoping a ten plus win season with inspired aggressive defensive play and Gilmore's presence and relationships will turn this into a position of strength.
If they sign early(Tillery) than we will lose them and 8 plus months before signing day the staff aren't doing a good enough job. All to fit your argument that Kelly is going to bail out on the program of which nobody but you believe to be true.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
How is Coach Kelly bad at dline recruiting? Jaron Jones and Sheldon Day and Isaac Rochelle will probably be playing on Sundays. Stephen Tuiit, Aaron Lynch, are playing in the NFL. ND picked up a boatload of dlineman last year including players with very high ceilings like Jerry Tillery .Andrew Trumbetti played well as a true frosh. Hayes was a 4 star. I think it is more about how well the coaching staff develops the players they bring in.
Sal:
TOS has several hotly debated threads about the state of ND recruiting; if ND is to close strong it will take 10 W's and flips. ND has will be no better than 4th in the midwest, having lost out on local talent. ND can still find top prospects outside the midwest, but where are the relationships?
Reasons?
staff changes, 2 poor seasons (with recruits 'Eight is NOT Enough'), and mentioned is Elston not being a good choice as RC. Lastly, Kelly himself may not be too concerned with recruiting, in otherwords a 1-2 year plan and on with other personal agenda. Years ago I stated all you need to do to figure out a coach's ambitions is watch for a de-emphasis on the recruiting effort: 'red flag'; I repeat it because identifying 'red flags' after the fact becomes just hindsight 20/20.
and:
The thing is Sanford looks like an up n comer; if ND flops in 15 will he be forever tarnished or if In '16 Kelly is in the NFL but ND is left defenseless will he be starting in a deep hole.
Previous discussion are on this board acknowledge that "missing" on needs 2 years in a row will ultimately affect the W/L record.
(this will be very unpopular with the 'I'm in my happy place" thinkers; it is just intended for discussion)
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To clarify Bodi... high end DL recruiting has been tough. I think the opposite about development is true. The consensus top 100 guys have eluded ND for the most part. Guys like Day and Jones to a degree have developed quite well. Not saying ND never gets DL guys, just saying their have been concerns about talent and depth there more then any other position since Kelly got here.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
SAL, many of the top dlineman are from the deep South. It is hard to get them to come to ND. But Coach Kelly has had more success in that area than the previous few coaches. Like Tuiit and Rochelle from Georgia.
Bob Diacos last year, in which he did no recruiting hardly,---VanGorder came in and grabbed a few Dlineman the last minute. This improved depth, whereas , under Diaco, ND always tried to hit a homerun. Last year we got killed by injuries.
Bob Diacos last year, in which he did no recruiting hardly,---VanGorder came in and grabbed a few Dlineman the last minute. This improved depth, whereas , under Diaco, ND always tried to hit a homerun. Last year we got killed by injuries.
I am aware of the geography aspect. The fact is there are Midwest boys that they are swinging and missing on. They aren't getting those top 10 position type players
ND isn't a Midwestern oriented team now. Physically ND is still in South Bend and going to school at ND is a great opportunity for a young man but with your ACC affiliation and national schedule why would you really expect to recruit Midwestern kids any better than kids in the ACC footprint now? Kelly has history in Michigan and Ohio so he may be able to recruit more effectively in the Midwest than the next ND coach but I don't know why ND would have the appeal in the Midwest that it once had given the orientation of your program.
whether that idea has merit we cannot be sure given the lackluster recruiting effort by ND's staff in '15.
Is this a 'lame duck' staff ?
Is this a 'lame duck' staff ?
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Are you aware recruiting lasts until February of next year. You are always too early--just like when you project 5th years months in advance. Like I said win and they will come.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Bodi- At the time Amir was not safe... Name the last DL that was a consensus top 10 position prospect that ND flipped or closed late outside of the 2011 class. I think there is talent on the DL, high end depth is not there but the front line talent is promising. No way to dice it though it is disappointing to see this happening.
and to fix a problem the 1st step is recognition; "what me worry" seems to be the appropriate slogan.
Now if the staf was running Jr. days and camps and generally in the forefront with these recruits but in spite of all the effort ND was unsuccssful, then that would be an entirely different matter.
The '15 effort has been lacking in plan and execution. RF.
Perse, one of these years your prediction that Kelly is leaving will prove correct, just hope you continue to be wrong for another ten years. Silly to suggest recruiting is lagging because Kelly has a one or two year plan, and staff are lame duck. My bet is that Gilmore will prove an asset in recruiting when NSD rolls around.
if Kelly had a bonafide offer he would have gone;
This recruiting cycle hinges on Gilmore now; no doubt.
2years ago I said 2 years, so my feeling was he would still be here in '15; i don't mind you disagreeing but at least get it correct rather than try slanderous humor. He will be here if he has no takers; he knows his clock for NFL op is ticking down. But he can't hire himself.
I take it you are all in, in the Eight is Enough club.
look I told you guys what to look for, no sense battering you guys with it. dead horse to spiting into the wind to banging the head against a wall.
(please be clear, I am not offering anything suggesting a firing.)
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The only time Amir was not safe in his 5th year was when you were considering it in your head. His 5th year was never in any doubt otherwise. Neither Amir nor any of the coaching staff ever indicated there were any doubts. Just to be clear, they were only in YOUR head.
Go Irish!
Sure it took Hegarty and Golson not coming back and ND taking 23 when they wanted to take 26 this cycle if the right guys committed. But sure...
Again, you don't know any of that. It is all speculation on your part. Kelly and the staff know what the numbers are and all of your quote is pure speculation. There are still close to 3 months to go. As the coach has said, he will use all of it. But feel free to imagine all of the scenarios you want. In your head.
Go Irish!
Jugs I get it that looking at the numbers 6 -8 months in advance is not interesting to you because all of that will work it self out eventually. The numbers were what they were however and had ND gotten Mckinney and Wallace to come along with Golson and Hegarty to stay the roster scenario for 5th years is much different. Add another commit they would have taken if they got their man and those numbers become more problematic for AC. If you think he would have been safe either way that's fine I just am not sure how that's true. Been consistent on that position, and have explained why that position isn't unreasonable.
And I've explained why you're wrong. Here it is again.
2014 Notre Dame Fighting Irish All-Purpose Running
Name Yr Pos G Rush Recv. Punt Ret. Kick Ret. Int. Ret. Plays Total Yards Yards/Play Yards/G
1 Amir Carlisle SR WR 12 46 309 0 761 0 65 1116 17.2 93.0
2 William Fuller SO WR 13 0 1094 0 0 0 77 1094 14.2 84.2
3 Tarean Folston SO RB 13 889 190 0 0 0 193 1079 5.6 83.0
4 C.J. Prosise JR WR 13 126 516 0 0 0 39 642 16.5 49.4
5 Chris Brown JR WR 13 5 548 0 0 0 40 553 13.8 42.5
6 Corey Robinson SO WR 13 0 539 0 0 0 40 539 13.5 41.5
7 Greg Bryant SO RB 13 289 50 94 85 0 71 518 7.3 39.8
8 Cam McDaniel SR RB 13 278 76 0 49 0 89 403 4.5 31.0
9 Ben Koyack SR TE 13 0 317 0 0 0 30 317 10.6 24.4
10 Everett Golson SR QB 13 283 0 0 0 0 114 283 2.5 21.8
11 Malik Zaire SO QB 7 187 0 0 0 0 33 187 5.7 26.7
http://www.cfbstats.com/2014/team/513/allpurpose/index.html
2014 Notre Dame Fighting Irish All-Purpose Running
Name Yr Pos G Rush Recv. Punt Ret. Kick Ret. Int. Ret. Plays Total Yards Yards/Play Yards/G
1 Amir Carlisle SR WR 12 46 309 0 761 0 65 1116 17.2 93.0
2 William Fuller SO WR 13 0 1094 0 0 0 77 1094 14.2 84.2
3 Tarean Folston SO RB 13 889 190 0 0 0 193 1079 5.6 83.0
4 C.J. Prosise JR WR 13 126 516 0 0 0 39 642 16.5 49.4
5 Chris Brown JR WR 13 5 548 0 0 0 40 553 13.8 42.5
6 Corey Robinson SO WR 13 0 539 0 0 0 40 539 13.5 41.5
7 Greg Bryant SO RB 13 289 50 94 85 0 71 518 7.3 39.8
8 Cam McDaniel SR RB 13 278 76 0 49 0 89 403 4.5 31.0
9 Ben Koyack SR TE 13 0 317 0 0 0 30 317 10.6 24.4
10 Everett Golson SR QB 13 283 0 0 0 0 114 283 2.5 21.8
11 Malik Zaire SO QB 7 187 0 0 0 0 33 187 5.7 26.7
http://www.cfbstats.com/2014/team/513/allpurpose/index.html
Because AC was the default return man who was only the return man because Riggs was to valuable of Defense to risk him getting hurt or deal with him being winded... Still doesn't contextualize how the numbers would have worked if we had 5 less scholarships to work with. I mean now even Hounsell is potentially coming back.
