Irish want Cal & the Tree @ the ACC.

[bizzybecknd]

I'm not saying that no one will take them.

ND will always have the option of JOINING, but what they may not be able to control are the consequences of NOT JOINING at some point -- as in REMAINING INDEPENDENT.

And THAT'S my point.

This idea that some hold that ND will ALWAYS and UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES fully control its own destiny -- other than by dropping or deemphasizing football -- seems, to me, a PARTISAN MYTH.

Again, by consequences the most likely one is not having a path to the playoff. If that occurs, they join.

I think there is an huge upside of being unique, paving your own path. ND has always been unique but man, if they can survive this and continue what they’re doing- it’s a massive benefit and could reap benefits on the recruiting trail. All these schools have sold their souls, betrayed long time partners/rivalries for money. Stay the course ND. Don’t get vaxxed

 

[mirer03]

How many handles does chase have in this thread?

 

[4-4-3]

Again, by consequences the most likely one is not having a path to the playoff. If that occurs, they join.

I think there is an huge upside of being unique, paving your own path. ND has always been unique but man, if they can survive this and continue what they’re doing- it’s a massive benefit and could reap benefits on the recruiting trail. All these schools have sold their souls, betrayed long time partners/rivalries for money. Stay the course ND. Don’t get vaxxed

I hear you clearly, but I don't see the UPSIDE in being UNIQUE when a team's claim to being FIRST AMONG EQUALS -- which has been part of ND's brand for a long time -- HASN'T BEEN TRUE since around 1949.

My feeling is this:

Join the rest of college football already. Play according to the format all but a handful of schools subscribe to and SEE HOW YOU DO. This is why I'd like to see ND join the Big Ten and risk losing 4 to 6 games in a down year. At least, you then know where you stand.

AGAIN, TAKE SOME RISKS.

ND's admin can then decide if it wants to continue playing football with that kind of potential downside or, instead, resume taking the kind of WEAK SCHEDULING REFUGE that independence would allow.

Being a PRIMA DONNA is one thing, but doing it on no recent JUSTIFIABLE BASIS starts to seem -- at least to me -- a little bit RIDICULOUS.

 

[chaseball]

I hear you clearly, but I don't see the UPSIDE in being UNIQUE when a team's claim to being FIRST AMONG EQUALS -- which has been part of ND's brand for a long time -- HASN'T BEEN TRUE since around 1949.

My feeling is this:

Join the rest of college football already. Play according to the format all but a handful of schools subscribe to and SEE HOW YOU DO. This is why I'd like to see ND join the Big Ten and risk losing 4 to 6 games in a down year. At least, you then know where you stand.

AGAIN, TAKE SOME RISKS.

ND's admin can then decide if it wants to continue playing football with that kind of potential downside or, instead, or resume taking the kind of WEAK SCHEDULING REFUGE that independence would allow.

Being a PRIMA DONNA is one thing, but doing it on no recent JUSTIFIABLE BASIS starts to seem -- at least to me -- a little bit RIDICULOUS.

AMEN BROTHER!! especially the caps regarding taking some risks.

This program is tired AF right now with ZERO momentum and it shows in how recruits are responding to it.

 

[NDSMC78]

AMEN BROTHER!! especially the caps regarding taking some risks.

This program is tired AF right now with ZERO momentum and it shows in how recruits are responding to it.

If anything is tired, it is your complaining. Go follow another school.

 

[4-4-3]

AMEN BROTHER!! especially the caps regarding taking some risks.
This program is tired AF right now with ZERO momentum and it shows in how recruits are responding to it.

I think it's found what it considers to be a COMFORTABLE NICHE just within striking distant of paydirt, where in a PERFECTLY STAR-ALIGNED YEAR, it can still win.

But with every passing year that that DOESN'T HAPPEN, the mathematical odds of it happening AT ALL dip further.

It's a BRAND NAME CREDIBILITY STRATEGY which probably DELIGHTS the non-football crowd at ND as it allows them to NOT HAVE TO BUDGE AN INCH, even as the team -- with some luck and adroit schedule watering -- can still remain a "PLAUSIBLE CONTENDER."

As per actually winning an NC, it's a PLAUSIBLE DENIAL/LIMITED HANGOUT COP OUT that is MARKETED as a WIN/WIN for both football and academics.

It's a SHREWD PLAY and as long as it works, they'll go with it. But NIL, the portal and CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT are all forces ND may not be able to control and, at some point, may succumb to.

Personally, my hunch is that ND is AFRAID to join the Big Ten as, over time, it may come to look more like an Iowa or Wisconsin, rather than a PSU, UM or OSU.

ND is walking a VERY FINE LINE which BIG TEN membership could eradicate to the DOWN SIDE.

 

[mbd11]

I hear you clearly, but I don't see the UPSIDE in being UNIQUE when a team's claim to being FIRST AMONG EQUALS -- which has been part of ND's brand for a long time -- HASN'T BEEN TRUE since around 1949.

My feeling is this:

Join the rest of college football already. Play according to the format all but a handful of schools subscribe to and SEE HOW YOU DO. This is why I'd like to see ND join the Big Ten and risk losing 4 to 6 games in a down year. At least, you then know where you stand.

AGAIN, TAKE SOME RISKS.

ND's admin can then decide if it wants to continue playing football with that kind of potential downside or, instead, resume taking the kind of WEAK SCHEDULING REFUGE that independence would allow.

Being a PRIMA DONNA is one thing, but doing it on no recent JUSTIFIABLE BASIS starts to seem -- at least to me -- a little bit RIDICULOUS.

Our schedule should probably rank in the top 15-20 in schedule strength in the country this year. We play 3 national powers ranked in the top 10 in most preseason polls.

Some years, it doesn't turn out as tough as we'd hoped, though - like 2021, for example. Teams like USC and Stanford had down years, and the only highly-ranked team turned out to be Cincinnati. So we're kind of dependent on teams turning out to be as good as we thought they'd be when we scheduled them.

But I think the admin's been trying to schedule fairly tough schedules in recent years.

 

[baron100]

Our schedule should probably rank in the top 15-20 in schedule strength in the country this year. We play 3 national powers ranked in the top 10 in most preseason polls.

Some years, it doesn't turn out as tough as we'd hoped, though - like 2021, for example. Teams like USC and Stanford had down years, and the only highly-ranked team turned out to be Cincinnati. So we're kind of dependent on teams turning out to be as good as we thought they'd be when we scheduled them.

But I think the admin's been trying to schedule fairly tough schedules in recent years.

They‘re going to have to but I don’t think it’ll be that easy. And looking at 24-27 schedules, no Clemson, fsu may not be in the conference, ta&m ? Wisconsin? SC— maybe maybe not, OSU off the schedule and we pick up a BS big team in Purdue. Hard to get super excited about this lineup. A&M game could be fun at Kyle and FSU/ SC could be entertaining. FSU could be bad again soon if they hit the sec or can’t keep up recruiting and SC without Williams and in BIG could be avg soon too. I don’t see much on future schedules that’s very scary

 

[4-4-3]

Our schedule should probably rank in the top 15-20 in schedule strength in the country this year. We play 3 national powers ranked in the top 10 in most preseason polls.

Some years, it doesn't turn out as tough as we'd hoped, though - like 2021, for example. Teams like USC and Stanford had down years, and the only highly-ranked team turned out to be Cincinnati. So we're kind of dependent on teams turning out to be as good as we thought they'd be when we scheduled them.

But I think the admin's been trying to schedule fairly tough schedules in recent years.

Perhaps.

But I remember many years -- decades even -- when the only "cupcake" on ND's schedule was PRE-TRIPLE-OPTION Navy or, for instance, an occasionally weak Tulane or Rice team.

There were ZERO MAC teams, and losses to a team such as Marshall would have been INCOMPREHENSIBLE if not IMPOSSIBLE.

From all of that -- and without having to go to the RECORD BOOKS -- I would maintain that ND teams now are RELATIVELY WEAKER and playing RELATIVELY WEAKER schedules.

And in the past, I've done historical power ratings based on net yardage and net scoring differentials which have also included an SOS factor, and these have CORROBORATED my assertion.

 

[tbonesays]

They‘re going to have to but I don’t think it’ll be that easy. And looking at 24-27 schedules, no Clemson, fsu may not be in the conference, ta&m ? Wisconsin? SC— maybe maybe not, OSU off the schedule and we pick up a BS big team in Purdue. Hard to get super excited about this lineup. A&M game could be fun at Kyle and FSU/ SC could be entertaining. FSU could be bad again soon if they hit the sec or can’t keep up recruiting and SC without Williams and in BIG could be avg soon too. I don’t see much on future schedules that’s very scary

There are plenty of reasons an SEC team might not want to do a H&H with ND. Equity in the inflated-playoff is just not one of them.

Talked to a Clemson fan last night. The perception is that ND bad mouthed the ACC because the conference wouldn't take Calford, while ND who offered nothing in return.

 

[mbd11]

There are plenty of reasons an SEC team might not want to do a H&H with ND. Equity in the inflated-playoff is just not one of them.

Talked to a Clemson fan last night. The perception is that ND bad mouthed the ACC because the conference wouldn't take Calford, while ND who offered nothing in return.

I don't think ND did anything wrong there with the ACC. We have a vote, and we lobbied for Cal and Stanford. In the end, they apparently had 11/15 votes, when 12 were needed. So 10 other ACC teams agreed with us on inviting them in.

 

[ivan brunetti]

There are plenty of reasons an SEC team might not want to do a H&H with ND. Equity in the inflated-playoff is just not one of them.

Talked to a Clemson fan last night. The perception is that ND bad mouthed the ACC because the conference wouldn't take Calford, while ND who offered nothing in return.

The ACC was dumb to give ND a vote in football matters. Of course, adding Cal & Stanford went beyond just football. But football dollars dwarf all other sports dollars combined.

 

[bizzybecknd]

I hear you clearly, but I don't see the UPSIDE in being UNIQUE when a team's claim to being FIRST AMONG EQUALS -- which has been part of ND's brand for a long time -- HASN'T BEEN TRUE since around 1949.

My feeling is this:

Join the rest of college football already. Play according to the format all but a handful of schools subscribe to and SEE HOW YOU DO. This is why I'd like to see ND join the Big Ten and risk losing 4 to 6 games in a down year. At least, you then know where you stand.

AGAIN, TAKE SOME RISKS.

ND's admin can then decide if it wants to continue playing football with that kind of potential downside or, instead, resume taking the kind of WEAK SCHEDULING REFUGE that independence would allow.

Being a PRIMA DONNA is one thing, but doing it on no recent JUSTIFIABLE BASIS starts to seem -- at least to me -- a little bit RIDICULOUS.

No way- realignment is bad for CFB. Stick to doing the right thing which for ND is to remain independent. If there hand is forced down the road due to scheduling concerns as mentioned than so be it. As it stands in 2023, ND has the 18th hardest schedule with 3 Top 10 match ups. Non issue for now.

 

[mbd11]

The ACC was dumb to give ND a vote in football matters. Of course, adding Cal & Stanford went beyond just football. But football dollars dwarf all other sports dollars combined.

ND must have obviously negotiated that vote when we made our ACC deal in the first place. And we do play 5 FB games a year vs. ACC teams, in addition to our membership in other sports.

 

[mbd11]

No way- realignment is bad for CFB. Stick to doing the right thing which for ND is to remain independent. If there hand is forced down the road due to scheduling concerns as mentioned than so be it. As it stands in 2023, ND has the 18th hardest schedule with 3 Top 10 match ups. Non issue for now.

I don't see why we don't just join the ACC. It would help keep it together. If FSU and Clemson leave, there goes our two best ACC opponents. And we already play 5 ACC games a year, which is 5/8 as many as the conference members themselves.

You also get an auto-berth in the Playoff if you win the conference.

 

[chaseball]

Recruits will go wherever the most money is. Schedule doesn't matter.

It's true money talks bullshit walks. But at a certain point when you have several schools all making a similarly competitive offer the other stuff starts to matter a lot. e.g. the talent on the roster, the talent on the coaching staff, the talent on the schedule (the SEC gets a huge bump for this alone as it is now known as the major league of college football, and even the Big 10 to a lesser extent), etc. etc. etc.

The belief out there is that if a player has success in one of those ultra competitive conferences he's a less risky investment to an NFL front office.

 

[sjb75]

I don't see why we don't just join the ACC. It would help keep it together. If FSU and Clemson leave, there goes our two best ACC opponents. And we already play 5 ACC games a year, which is 5/8 as many as the conference members themselves.

You also get an auto-berth in the Playoff if you win the conference.

Better than the Big 10.

 

[ivan brunetti]

I read whispers today that Cal and Stanford to the ACC is not yet dead. ESPN would bumb the ACC payout to eventually pay the two new arrivals a full share; but there wouldn't be additional money for FSU, Clemson and the others who want to bounce.

 

[Holycrossover3]

I don't see why we don't just join the ACC. It would help keep it together. If FSU and Clemson leave, there goes our two best ACC opponents. And we already play 5 ACC games a year, which is 5/8 as many as the conference members themselves.

You also get an auto-berth in the Playoff if you win the conference.

If we can’t remain Independent and must join a conference, I would vote BIG10 over ACC. I know a significant amount of the board hates the BIG10 but I’d simply find more enjoyment with that schedule. I’ll take Michigan, OSU, USC, Oregon, Washington, UCLA, Penn St, MSU, Purdue and Wisconsin over Clemson, Miami & FSU. There’s bottom feeders on both sides. No MSU & Purdue don’t currently belong in the top end of those schools but at least there’s decent history there.

Maybe it’s cuz I’m from the Midwest and the local rivalries excite me more, but the majority of these ACC games are snoozers.

I do believe if the ACC stays intact it’s a much easier road to an auto CFP birth, but man the schedule would be fun in the BIG10.

All of that said, I’m Team stay independent if we can find proper opponents to schedule us for home & homes.

 

[jerbach]

As I wrote earlier, joining the BIG would present a schedule much like the one when I was at ND in the 1960s. The growth in conferences is suppose to give us good matchups for TV revenue but will also produce duds. Maybe an idea would be to give schools a guaranteed TV income from the season, but also give schools a bigger share of individual game incomes from matchups between the best teams. This would provide more reward to FSU and Clemson for example for playing better non-conference teams. I would eliminate some of the noise against one size fits all in TV revenues.

 

[tbonesays]

As I wrote earlier, joining the BIG would present a schedule much like the one when I was at ND in the 1960s. The growth in conferences is suppose to give us good matchups for TV revenue but will also produce duds. Maybe an idea would be to give schools a guaranteed TV income from the season, but also give schools a bigger share of individual game incomes from matchups between the best teams. This would provide more reward to FSU and Clemson for example for playing better non-conference teams. I would eliminate some of the noise against one size fits all in TV revenues.

That would make us a midwestern team appealing to a dwindling recruiting base.

 

[mbd11]

That would make us a midwestern team appealing to a dwindling recruiting base.

One advantage of the ACC is it gives us a better pipeline to East Coast recruiting.

 

[ivan brunetti]

That would make us a midwestern team appealing to a dwindling recruiting base.

Yes, but only if you consider Southern California and Maryland to be "midwestern".

 

[tbonesays]

Yes, but only if you consider Southern California and Maryland to be "midwestern".

Only if Maryland became a protected rivalry.

 

[Holycrossover3]

I’m not sure in our current state of independent scheduling, that being independent is as crucial to national recruiting as it used to be.

We recruit Texas relatively well. Is it really because we played one game there in 2016 and have another in 2024? I don’t believe so.

We consistently take kids out of the south as well. How many SEC schools have we had home and homes with over the last 10 years?

We have cemented ourselves as a top tier college football brand. Playing once or twice a decade in a certain area is not the main reason we recruit nationally. Does it help a little bit, probably, but I would say it is not the main reason.

Alabama, Ohio State, USC and many other top programs recruit nationally and they are locked into conference play, so why could we not do the same?

 

[4-4-3]

I’m not sure in our current state of independent scheduling, that being independent is as crucial to national recruiting as it used to be.

We recruit Texas relatively well. Is it really because we played one game there in 2016 and have another in 2024? I don’t believe so.

We consistently take kids out of the south as well. How many SEC schools have we had home and homes with over the last 10 years?

We have cemented ourselves as a top tier college football brand. Playing once or twice a decade in a certain area is not the main reason we recruit nationally. Does it help a little bit, probably, but I would say it is not the main reason.

Alabama, Ohio State, USC and many other top programs recruit nationally and they are locked into conference play, so why could we not do the same?

I think of INDEPENDENCE more along the lines of the CONFEDERATE FLAG or Curt Schilling's BLOODY SOCK. A rallying cry that shrieks DEFIANCE. Sure, everyone thinks they're special, but there comes a POINT where THERE SIMPLY ISN'T ONE.

I mean, how many RAREFIED STRAINS OF BELIEF can ND football satisfy? The academics, the Catholics, the Independence Brigade, the average OVER-IDENTIFIED ALUMNUS, the SUBWAY MOB, the fans-as-haters and the haters-as fans.

Too bad ND simply can't be just another POWERHOUSE TEAM with the same general advantages and disadvantages as its "peers"; compete on a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD; and see JUST HOW GOOD IT IS under normal operating conditions.

But, apparently, that's not how it SEES ITSELF. It wants to be special, SO SPECIAL IT IS. But then, you have to live with ALL ASPECTS of what ND's kind of specialness ENTAILS. In many ways, this is what my Brit friends call a ONE-LEGGED ASS-KICKING CONTEST.

If you can't picture that, think CHINESE HANDCUFFS ON EVERY FINGER.

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

Just read a report that talks are heating up that SMU, Cal, and Stanford may be invited to ACC.

 

[mbd11]

Just read a report that talks are heating up that SMU, Cal, and Stanford may be invited to ACC.

Well, they had 11/15 votes before, and only need 12. So it could happen, conceivably.

 

[Patrirish]

That's a head scratcher to me. I wish Cal and Stanford the best as they deal with their conference falling apart, but I don't see any reason why we should push for them to join the ACC.

Jack Swarbrick stated the opposite !

 

[tbonesays]

We recruit Texas relatively well. Is it really because we played one game there in 2016 and have another in 2024? I don’t believe so.

We what?

We don't sit in a talent hotbed and do not have the support of a state. It's very easy to answer the question why can't you be like ______?

 

[Holycrossover3]

We what?

We don't sit in a talent hotbed and do not have the support of a state. It's very easy to answer the question why can't you be like ______?

Did you even read my post? It was about how we recruit well nationally…

I’m well aware Indiana isn’t filled with talent Lol

 

[NDinNJ]

I hear you clearly, but I don't see the UPSIDE in being UNIQUE when a team's claim to being FIRST AMONG EQUALS -- which has been part of ND's brand for a long time -- HASN'T BEEN TRUE since around 1949.

My feeling is this:

Join the rest of college football already. Play according to the format all but a handful of schools subscribe to and SEE HOW YOU DO. This is why I'd like to see ND join the Big Ten and risk losing 4 to 6 games in a down year. At least, you then know where you stand.

AGAIN, TAKE SOME RISKS.

ND's admin can then decide if it wants to continue playing football with that kind of potential downside or, instead, resume taking the kind of WEAK SCHEDULING REFUGE that independence would allow.

Being a PRIMA DONNA is one thing, but doing it on no recent JUSTIFIABLE BASIS starts to seem -- at least to me -- a little bit RIDICULOUS.

I enjoy your posts. THEY ARE COMIC GOLD!!!!!!!
You clearly know NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL.
Weak schedule? LMFAO 🤣 3 top 10 teams. is a weak schedule 😂 COMIC GOLD!!!!

 

[mirer03]

I read whispers today that Cal and Stanford to the ACC is not yet dead. ESPN would bumb the ACC payout to eventually pay the two new arrivals a full share; but there wouldn't be additional money for FSU, Clemson and the others who want to bounce.

At the end of the day, ESPN knows that they might have a serious money crunch coming and that they overpaid for the majority of their contracts. With Texas and ok going to the sec, ESPN took away the chance for the big 12 to maximize their value. That's why Clemson and FSU want out right now, because in 2036 the market likely won't be more favorable. ESPN effectively ended their agreement and any need to pay the pac 12 and big 12 and is now trying to do the same with the acc. If the acc collapses that's one less obligation they have to pay, or that's on their books when ESPN gets spun off or sold.

 

[NDinNJ]

Well, they had 11/15 votes before, and only need 12. So it could happen, conceivably.

Curious, does ND get a vote since they are members in all other sports.

 

[mbd11]

Curious, does ND get a vote since they are members in all other sports.

Yes, we have a full vote.

 

[tbonesays]

Lot's of rumors specific to 'Calford' and SMU to the ACC at a reduced rate. For it to be that targeted likely means the conference and the media are making targeted leaks.

The SMU thing is such a typical ACC move. After all of the desirable teams in Texas finished playing musical chairs, the North Carolina dons said Maybe we should look at Texas, is anyone left?

 

[mbd11]

Lot's of rumors specific to 'Calford' and SMU to the ACC at a reduced rate. For it to be that targeted likely means the conference and the media are making targeted leaks.

The SMU thing is such a typical ACC move. After all of the desirable teams in Texas finished playing musical chairs, the North Carolina dons said Maybe we should look at Texas, is anyone left?

SMU's history in the Southwest Conference was just as good as TCU's (except for the whole death penalty thing, of course). It's only recently that TCU's been better (probably because of better coaching hires).

 

[ivan brunetti]

It looks like the ACC will add Stanford, Cal and SMU. Two fantastic academic schools and the Death Penalty program.

A minor bump in football money (around $4 million per school) for a few years for the rest of the conference. That isn't going to keep FSU and Clemson from leaving (if they can).

 

[tbonesays]

SMU's history in the Southwest Conference was just as good as TCU's (except for the whole death penalty thing, of course). It's only recently that TCU's been better (probably because of better coaching hires).

Both were available for the past 30 or 20 years along with Houston, Rice and some unknown UTs. If the ACC wanted into Texas they had ample time to do so. Without taking anyone else in the region, SMU is a far flung outpost that serves as a pimple on the map reminding people that the ACC's clock is ticking.

 

[jerbach]

That would make us a midwestern team appealing to a dwindling recruiting base.

I am not advocating that we join the Big. I like our arrangement with the ACC and don't think our schedule is weakened compared to the Big as long as FSU and Clemson stay in place. My main question in the post was why TV networks can't pay teams more directly for the best non-conference matchups so we can avoid some of this conference expansion business based on the argument that it is all about money.