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Injuries Drop 87%

If you think Notre Dame has entrusted the physical well being of all it's football players to just one guy you are mistaken . ie orthopedic surgeons ( team doctors ) are part of the operation in addition to other trainers and physical therapists

Also if you think Longo is doing something that would contribute to knee injuries you are also mistaken .

If there are exercises that prevent knee injuries the team is doing them .

If there are exercises that increased the chances of knee injuries ND would not be doing them .

I trust medical practitioners ( doctors - therapists ) and trained professionals ( trainers ) more than internet posters - don't you ?
 
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kellys heroes 35 said:
If you think Notre Dame has entrusted the physical well being of all it's football players to just one guy you are mistaken . ie orthopedic surgeons ( team doctors ) are part of the operation in addition to other trainers and physical therapists

Also if you think Longo is doing something that would contribute to knee injuries you are also mistaken .

If there are exercises that prevent knee injuries the team is doing them .

If there are exercises that increased the chances of knee injuries ND would not be doing them .

I trust medical practitioners ( doctors - therapists ) and trained professionals ( trainers ) more than internet posters - don't you ?
Click to expand...

Bad luck years as well. Never seen a year where every team I support pro and college have been devastated by injuries.
 
kellys heroes 35 said:
If you think Notre Dame has entrusted the physical well being of all it's football players to just one guy you are mistaken . ie orthopedic surgeons ( team doctors ) are part of the operation in addition to other trainers and physical therapists

Also if you think Longo is doing something that would contribute to knee injuries you are also mistaken .

If there are exercises that prevent knee injuries the team is doing them .

If there are exercises that increased the chances of knee injuries ND would not be doing them .

I trust medical practitioners ( doctors - therapists ) and trained professionals ( trainers ) more than internet posters - don't you ?
Click to expand...

If you think all colleges do the same thing and have the same success, you are mistaken. This is the most assinine defense of an argument I have ever heard. I merely pointed out that other places are having more success doing different things. Close minded a bit? You sound like a Microsoft executive with a staff of the most intelligent minds falling behind in the world.
 
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tdjesus11 said:
If you think all colleges do the same thing and have the same success, you are mistaken. This is the most assinine defense of an argument I have ever heard. I merely pointed out that other places are having more success doing different things. Close minded a bit? You sound like a Microsoft executive with a staff of the most intelligent minds falling behind in the world.
Click to expand...
Ballet and yoga are the key. Ballet is only good if athletes where tutus.
 
I have an open enough mind to consider we may have to update our s/c program with some additional new methods. But if you think anything is going to prevent a guy getting injured after a play is done from pushing JS and he lands awkwardly as he wasn't expecting it- you are probably going to be disappointed with the results. Or when a 300lbs lineman rolls up on jarron jones' leg, there isn't a strength builder that will prevent injury there. So while I'd be open to new things that could improve our injuries, it's also borderline silly to blame longo for everything here. As usual the truth is in the middle.
 
tdjesus11 said:
We need a new strength and conditioning coach. It's an old article, but still applies. For those that dont think Longo is responsible....

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/12/3...ning-regimen-redefines-strength.html?referer=
Click to expand...

There's a big focus on "usage". At some point training yields diminishing returns and increases the chance of injury. Stanford is pushing envelopes as hard as possible and is cutting edge in elite physical, mental and virtual reality training.

We've seen some bizarre stuff under kelly.

Drue Tranquill tops the list.
 
tdjesus11 said:
If you think all colleges do the same thing and have the same success, you are mistaken. This is the most assinine defense of an argument I have ever heard. I merely pointed out that other places are having more success doing different things. Close minded a bit? You sound like a Microsoft executive with a staff of the most intelligent minds falling behind in the world.
Click to expand...

Thank you I am certain that the ND coaches - athletic dept - trainers - doctors - therapists are blinded to innovation in regards to preventing injuries - I will defer to your professional insights on the matter .
 
kellys heroes 35 said:
Thank you I am certain that the ND coaches - athletic dept - trainers - doctors - therapists are blinded to innovation in regards to preventing injuries - I will defer to your professional insights on the matter .
Click to expand...

It wasn't my insights. I linked an article to someone else's. That's why people are hired and fired, why people have success when others don't. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you. You hold people responsible for results. There is a pattern that Longo is responsible for. To turn your head and say they are smart people, is just dumb.
 
tdjesus11 said:
It wasn't my insights. I linked an article to someone else's. That's why people are hired and fired, why people have success when others don't. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you. You hold people responsible for results. There is a pattern that Longo is responsible for. To turn your head and say they are smart people, is just dumb.
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You know nothing about ND s strength and training program.
 
At a minimum, ND needs to hire some new personnel in the S&C program. The injury issue has been getting worse with each passing season since Longo got here. Only idiots would keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect different results.
 
Pennick4 said:
Longo is one of the best. The only time you were in a weight room is when you were collecting the jocks on the way to the laundry room.
Click to expand...

Far from it....he has never won an award in his field. Again, you are just dumb.

This resume is hardly impressive....

1987 Wisconsin Assistant Strength Coach
1988-92 Iowa Assistant Football Strength Coach
1993-98 Iowa Head Football Strength Coach
1999-2003 Iowa Olympic Sports Strength Coach
2004-06 Central Michigan Head Strength Coach
2007-09 Cincinnati Director of Football Strength and Conditioning
2010-14 Notre Dame Director of Football Strength and Conditioning

He can add got pushed around against osu by a second string D line....
 
Pennick4 said:
You know nothing going about strength and conditioning!
Click to expand...

I know the facts where we are not successful and other programs are proven.

And what do you know to have so much defense of Longo. Did you just finish 10 interviews with strength and conditioning coaches and Longo impressed you the most? What did he say to you in his interview with you that made him stand out from the rest?
 
tdjesus11 said:
I know the facts where we are not successful and other programs are proven.

And what do you know to have so much defense of Longo. Did you just finish 10 interviews with strength and conditioning coaches and Longo impressed you the most? What did he say to you in his interview with you that made him stand out from the rest?
Click to expand...
I doubt I know less than you....don't think that is possible. Because you have a dial up aol line doesn't mean you know what the he'll you are talking about. Post less and read more.
 
Pennick4 said:
I doubt I know less than you....don't think that is possible. Because you have a dial up aol line doesn't mean you know what the he'll you are talking about. Post less and read more.
Click to expand...

I posted what I read. Nice epic fail on your part. You got served.
 
There are several ways to look at injuries, but two distinctions that are relevant in this thread are:

Conditioning Injury: This type of injury is common with athletes, but is, to a degree, preventable with a proper fitness/training regiment. Pulled muscles are a great example of this. Pulled muscles are never 100 percent preventable, but with proper nutrition, proper stretching, and proper technique these injuries can be mitigated. Notre Dame did a pretty exceptional job in this category in 2015.

Trauma Injury: This type of injury has nothing to do with a S&C program. By definition they are caused by a force acting on the body. The most understandable anecdote would be a car accident. The force of the colliding vehicles act on the driver causing injury. I have followed athletics my entire life. I come from a coaching family. I have never seen a team with this many trauma injuries. These type of injuries cannot be mitigated by a S&C coach. In football you have collisions and the only way to mitigate the risk of injury is to not make contact (stop playing football.)


As a medical professional I deal with many injuries on a daily basis. Unfortunately for ND there is no way to prevent the type of injuries sustained this year. Stanford would not be able to prevent theses injuries either. The Cardinal is on a run of good luck.
 
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30ft. Fight said:
There are several ways to look at injuries, but two distinctions that are relevant in this thread are:

Conditioning Injury: This type of injury is common with athletes, but is, to a degree, preventable with a proper fitness/training regiment. Pulled muscles are a great example of this. Pulled muscles are never 100 percent preventable, but with proper nutrition, proper stretching, and proper technique these injuries can be mitigated. Notre Dame did a pretty exceptional job in this category in 2015.

Trauma Injury: This type of injury has nothing to do with a S&C program. By definition they are caused by a force acting on the body. The most understandable anecdote would be a car accident. The force of the colliding vehicles act on the driver causing injury. I have followed athletics my entire life. I come from a coaching family. I have never seen a team with this many trauma injuries. These type of injuries cannot be mitigated by a S&C coach. In football you have collisions and the only way to mitigate the risk of injury is to not make contact (stop playing football.)


As a medical professional I deal with many injuries on a daily basis. Unfortunately for ND there is no way to prevent the type of injuries sustained this year. Stanford would not be able to prevent theses injuries either. The Cardinal is on a run of good luck.
Click to expand...

Thank you for weighting in ----

Unbelievable that there would be anyone walking this planet that would think there is a football program at the level of ND that would be negligent in doing everything possible to prevent injuries -- the internet is sickening in that it gives every shit head with a computer a voice
 
This how you sad lunatics spend a Sunday? Good Lord- get a grip, find a female, a beer, a ski slope, golf course, a chapel, something. Grown men arguing incorrect screen names and posting Simmons videos like its humor. Grow a pair fellas!
 
30ft. Fight said:
There are several ways to look at injuries, but two distinctions that are relevant in this thread are:

Conditioning Injury: This type of injury is common with athletes, but is, to a degree, preventable with a proper fitness/training regiment. Pulled muscles are a great example of this. Pulled muscles are never 100 percent preventable, but with proper nutrition, proper stretching, and proper technique these injuries can be mitigated. Notre Dame did a pretty exceptional job in this category in 2015.

Trauma Injury: This type of injury has nothing to do with a S&C program. By definition they are caused by a force acting on the body. The most understandable anecdote would be a car accident. The force of the colliding vehicles act on the driver causing injury. I have followed athletics my entire life. I come from a coaching family. I have never seen a team with this many trauma injuries. These type of injuries cannot be mitigated by a S&C coach. In football you have collisions and the only way to mitigate the risk of injury is to not make contact (stop playing football.)


As a medical professional I deal with many injuries on a daily basis. Unfortunately for ND there is no way to prevent the type of injuries sustained this year. Stanford would not be able to prevent theses injuries either. The Cardinal is on a run of good luck.
Click to expand...

Would you care to share the risks associated with over training/over usage? If the body is overworked and put into a "stressful" environment there is considerably more risk. Thanks.
 
kellys heroes 35 said:
Thank you for weighting in ----

Unbelievable that there would be anyone walking this planet that would think there is a football program at the level of ND that would be negligent in doing everything possible to prevent injuries -- the internet is sickening in that it gives every shit head with a computer a voice
Click to expand...
Notre Dame did not start training table until 2010. We are deficient in multiple areas. Would you care to discuss our virtual training? Again, we are behind the curve.
A former player's dad who is an incredible Doctor bought a house in SB and stocked it with steak, eggs, milk...other stuff so that his son would be properly nourished. He also had the training evaluated by experts and supplemented it where it was deficient. So, why don't you just stfu on something you know nothing about and where folks have every right to be concerned. What awards has the meathead Longo ever won? Have fun finding something.....
 
30ft. Fight said:
There are several ways to look at injuries, but two distinctions that are relevant in this thread are:

Conditioning Injury: This type of injury is common with athletes, but is, to a degree, preventable with a proper fitness/training regiment. Pulled muscles are a great example of this. Pulled muscles are never 100 percent preventable, but with proper nutrition, proper stretching, and proper technique these injuries can be mitigated. Notre Dame did a pretty exceptional job in this category in 2015.

Trauma Injury: This type of injury has nothing to do with a S&C program. By definition they are caused by a force acting on the body. The most understandable anecdote would be a car accident. The force of the colliding vehicles act on the driver causing injury. I have followed athletics my entire life. I come from a coaching family. I have never seen a team with this many trauma injuries. These type of injuries cannot be mitigated by a S&C coach. In football you have collisions and the only way to mitigate the risk of injury is to not make contact (stop playing football.)


As a medical professional I deal with many injuries on a daily basis. Unfortunately for ND there is no way to prevent the type of injuries sustained this year. Stanford would not be able to prevent theses injuries either. The Cardinal is on a run of good luck.
Click to expand...


Stanford's run of good luck is having a very healthy team every year they play ND and getting 4 wins VS ND in the last 6 years. A team that many times is out hitting and out smarting ND each time they play us. Not bad for a program that was historically a .500 program that when they won 7 games they'd be happier than a pig in sh*t.

Stanford now expects to win 10 plus games every year and win their New Years Day Bowl Game. Never thought I'd want my Irish to get to Stanford level of success.
 
IrishBlessings said:
Stanford's run of good luck is having a very healthy team every year they play ND and getting 4 wins VS ND in the last 6 years. A team that many times is out hitting and out smarting ND each time they play us. Not bad for a program that was historically a .500 program that when they won 7 games they'd be happier than a pig in sh*t.

Stanford now expects to win 10 plus games every year and win their New Years Day Bowl Game. Never thought I'd want my Irish to get to Stanford level of success.
Click to expand...

And just so you know - I can't stand Stanford - their fans are clueless about football and bandwagon as they come. Their band is a bunch of smart ass college kids who think their funny. And to top it off their arrogance is nauseating.

It pisses me off to high heaven that Stanford's football team over the last 6 years has more wins than Notre Dame. But, they have a great coach and they are innovative and way ahead of the curve in how they are doing it.

IF ND was not so stubborn w/ their head in the sand - they'd at a minimum would figure out what Stanford is doing to stay so gosh darn healthy during their football season and try to emulate what works.

IT's not luck when you stay as healthy as they have over the last 4 or 5 years or from whenever their process was implemented.
 
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cgvr said:
Would you care to share the risks associated with over training/over usage? If the body is overworked and put into a "stressful" environment there is considerably more risk. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Overwork can certainly lead to a higher injury rate, but again, you see a different type of injury.
I just had a look at the injury list from ND this year, and there was not one truly non contact, or conditioning injury. There were two significant injuries that were borderline non contact and even in those cases the joint was stressed in a traumatic way. This was an exceptional year with the regard to the type and frequency of injury to ND.

To your point with regard to the relatively new emphasis on athlete S & C. I agree that ND (and many other programs) were not the early adapters. However, over the past 4 years or so the athlete at ND is no longer slow and less athletic. You now see the benefits of having a training table and a better emphasis on health and nutrition. The ND athlete is very competitive to the other top programs.

Many keep bringing up Stanford and their relative health. They have been very fortunate. It is luck. Any time you play a sport with the contact of football, there is a high risk as a season unfolds for traumatic injury. There is nothing in training you can do to prevent a traumatic injury, Nothing! If there was, do you not think the NFL (the wealthiest and most powerful sports business in the US) would have reduced injury rates? Football is a collision sport and you cannot train your way around collision injuries. You can train your way to reduce conditioning injury. Those are very different injury types.
 
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I don't buy the luck talk. Sure, some can't be avoided as you say. However, they teach balance as part of strength just as much as weights, if not more. Someone might have better balance, which allows them to be pushed and not lock the knee.

Prior to Stanfords new SC coach, they had medical doctors and top notch Academics looking in into this without success. To act like it's a product of luck and not the result of different training is BS.
 
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tdjesus11 said:
I don't buy the luck talk. Sure, some can't be avoided as you say. However, they teach balance as part of strength just as much as weights, if not more. Someone might have better balance, which allows them to be pushed and not lock the knee.

Prior to Stanfords new SC coach, they had medical doctors and top notch Academics looking in into this without success. To act like it's a product of luck and not the result of different training is BS.
Click to expand...
ND is Faith based "world is still flat with and center of universe" - Stanford uses empirical hard science and maths.
 
Not sure how one can look at Stanford and not aspire to be them. Do whatever it takes. Replicate their strength and conditioning. Wouldn't hurt to try and emulate their offense too.
 
BGI User 1596 said:
ND is Faith based "world is still flat with and center of universe" - Stanford uses empirical hard science and maths.
Click to expand...


Last 6 years. Stanford total wins 66. 11 wins averaged per season. W/ 3 major bowl wins. Notre Dame wins 55. 9 average wins per season. ND 0 Major bowl wins last 20 plus years.

Last 6 years Stanford vs. ND - Stanford 4 and 2 vs. ND.

The Stanford Math is pretty good.
 
30ft. Fight said:
Overwork can certainly lead to a higher injury rate, but again, you see a different type of injury.
I just had a look at the injury list from ND this year, and there was not one truly non contact, or conditioning injury. There were two significant injuries that were borderline non contact and even in those cases the joint was stressed in a traumatic way. This was an exceptional year with the regard to the type and frequency of injury to ND.

To your point with regard to the relatively new emphasis on athlete S & C. I agree that ND (and many other programs) were not the early adapters. However, over the past 4 years or so the athlete at ND is no longer slow and less athletic. You now see the benefits of having a training table and a better emphasis on health and nutrition. The ND athlete is very competitive to the other top programs.

Many keep bringing up Stanford and their relative health. They have been very fortunate. It is luck. Any time you play a sport with the contact of football, there is a high risk as a season unfolds for traumatic injury. There is nothing in training you can do to prevent a traumatic injury, Nothing! If there was, do you not think the NFL (the wealthiest and most powerful sports business in the US) would have reduced injury rates? Football is a collision sport and you cannot train your way around collision injuries. You can train your way to reduce conditioning injury. Those are very different injury types.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. Off the top of my head I think Folston and Tranquill were non contact injuries... Maybe Tranquill's was a celebratory chest bump? ?

I don't think all training programs are equal and I know Stanford mixes in tons flexibility routines. Hogan's ankle was rolled past 90 degrees early this year and I though for sure his ankle had snapped. Somehow it didn't.

The usage element is a large and important component of tracking/research. An athlete that has pushed his body to exhaustion without appropriate time to recover is at significant more risk. I'm wondering what real time tracking mechanisms we have in place?

The problem with ND is that we as a general rule of thumb are frugal. Look no further than men's basketball....
We can say we have training table...is it a good one? We can say we have S&C...is it the best? It should be and I'm not convinced that Longo is among the elite in the CFB world.

Here's an interesting article I thought you might like. Trent Edwards is a great guy, very smart and pushing the "virtual" envelope hard.

Also, below is a video/overview from Turley who is Stanford's S&C mastermind.

PS His bio is also extremely impressive....

Thanks for your feedback. It's most appreciated.

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/five-trends-shaping-future-sports

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
cgvr said:
Thanks for the response. Off the top of my head I think Folston and Tranquill were non contact injuries... Maybe Tranquill's was a celebratory chest bump? ?

I don't think all training programs are equal and I know Stanford mixes in tons flexibility routines. Hogan's ankle was rolled past 90 degrees early this year and I though for sure his ankle had snapped. Somehow it didn't.

The usage element is a large and important component of tracking/research. An athlete that has pushed his body to exhaustion without appropriate time to recover is at significant more risk. I'm wondering what real time tracking mechanisms we have in place?

The problem with ND is that we as a general rule of thumb are frugal. Look no further than men's basketball....
We can say we have training table...is it a good one? We can say we have S&C...is it the best? It should be and I'm not convinced that Longo is among the elite in the CFB world.

Here's an interesting article I thought you might like. Trent Edwards is a great guy, very smart and pushing the "virtual" envelope hard.

Also, below is a video/overview from Turley who is Stanford's S&C mastermind.

PS His bio is also extremely impressive....

Thanks for your feedback. It's most appreciated.

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/five-trends-shaping-future-sports

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
View embedded media
" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Click to expand...
You nailed the two injuries that were borderline. Although force was applied in the Folston Injury, it did not appear to be caused by the tackle. I thought the injury came on the cut. Tranquill's injury came when he landed. You would be shocked at how many times you see this type of injury from jumping and landing (more common in basketball.) In this case the Trauma comes from impacting the ground or landing. If you look at the relatively small sample size of the NFL there were two such injuries last year off the top of my head. Tulloch and Houston both severely injured themselves jumping during a celebration.

With regard to the frugality of the university, I know there has been investments being made. A few of them were late, but I truly believe that Swarbrick has done a wonderful job at increasing the investment into athletics by the university.

I agree that not all S&C programs are the same, and Stanford really has a great program. I know Shannon Turley's work well. I respect the hell out of him. This is not a criticism of him or the strength program he leads. He would agree with me as well. Out of Notre Dame's 20 or so injuries where a player missed a game, maybe 1 or 2 could be considered preventable through training. Maybe.

As for the ankle turn by Kevin Hogan, that truly would result in ligament damage and missed time for most players. There are 3 keys to each injury:
1. Genetics - You can't train away bad genetics and you can't train in good genetics. For Hogan to not tear a ligament in the scenario you described (I did not see it) good genetics will trump all.
2. Training - increased flexibility is very important and cannot be removed from the equation.
3. Prior History - Was there a prior injury or other factors that mitigated the severity.

This was the first and probably last time I will post here. I read a few forums in my spare time and never post. I happened to read this thread because it is in my wheelhouse. I have had the privilege of working with some of the best and most innovative minds in the medical field. Some of whom have worked as professional team physicians. We have had more conversation about these types of injuries than I can remember, and I felt like that experience could prove useful to this topic. I know some on here don't like to think that luck is involved. I regret to inform you that it is. Football is a collision sport. Every player that sees the field is at risk of severe injury. Whether from stress that they create or a player hitting them. There are far too many variables to prevent catastrophic injury.

Have a great 2016 and I'll see you for the spring game!

GO IRISH
 
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I agree luck is involved. I just believe it's getting too much credit.

Take Jaylon Smiths injury for example. He was pushed, a cheap shot, nonetheless. However flexibility and balance may have prevented the injury. For example, when getting pushed and being in an awkward position, you can teach yourself to respond by letting yourself fall and roll out, instead of locking your knee to try to prevent the fall.

Those are not easy things to learn and is a skill to develop. I just believe there is more to it than luck.

People put themselves in a better position to have better luck.
 
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