How Do We Get In?

[NotreDame du Lac]

If undefeated. Talking heads and some on the boards act like an undefeated ND gets in. How does that happen in the likely situation that Georgia has one loss?

Bama, PSU, Clemson, and the choice is 1 loss Georgia who beat ND, likely undefeated TCU, 1 loss OSU and Wisconsin.


I'd say an awful lot would have to go wrong for ND to get in. Seems less than "automatic."

A 1 loss GA has a better claim than ND. Obviously. We can argue all we want about getting in over TCU, OSU, Wisconsin, or Clemson, but I don't see it.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

In that scenario... OSU would have more then 1 loss so they are out. Wisconsin would have a loss and would be out b/c of SOS. Also, it is unlikely UGA or ND is getting in over TCU that is undefeated. The assumption that ND gets in if they go undefeated along the way is that at least two of TCU, Clemson and Georgia have hiccups along the way.

 

[ndfi65]

This is why a 4 team playoff is so stupid. We have to get to eight. I don't want to hear "but then we will need 16", that's bullshit.

 

[TOMMY_23]

How about we let things play out. There are way too many games left. Enjoy the ride.

 

[echowaker]

This is why a 4 team playoff is so stupid. We have to get to eight. I don't want to hear "but then we will need 16", that's bullshit.

8 teams is a waste. Would make the regular season less important. In reality the power 5 conference championship games are pretty much quarterfinal games. In six semifinal games in the three years of the playoff five games have been routes. Who wants to see Alabama against a conference runner up in a 1-8 match up ? 4 is plenty. That may hurt ND because they ll only have 12 games but that's their choice.

 

[HDK]

8 teams is a waste. Would make the regular season less important. In reality the power 5 conference championship games are pretty much quarterfinal games. In six semifinal games in the three years of the playoff five games have been routes. Who wants to see Alabama against a conference runner up in a 1-8 match up ? 4 is plenty. That may hurt ND because they ll only have 12 games but that's their choice.

I disagree. With four teams, it seems like someone gets screwed every year. I'd rather see eight qualify for the playoffs with a chance that three are undeserving than only four with the chance that one deserving team did not get in.

 

[gautrp]

In that scenario... OSU would have more then 1 loss so they are out. Wisconsin would have a loss and would be out b/c of SOS. Also, it is unlikely UGA or ND is getting in over TCU that is undefeated. The assumption that ND gets in if they go undefeated along the way is that at least two of TCU, Clemson and Georgia have hiccups along the way.

TCU is not getting in.

 

[echowaker]

I disagree. With four teams, it seems like someone gets screwed every year. I'd rather see eight qualify for the playoffs with a chance that three are undeserving than only four with the chance that one deserving team did not get in.

All you will get is eight of the ten championship game participants unless ND is undefeated or with one loss and you have a good chance of a conference championship game rematch. I doubt tv wants that.

 

[echowaker]

I disagree. With four teams, it seems like someone gets screwed every year. I'd rather see eight qualify for the playoffs with a chance that three are undeserving than only four with the chance that one deserving team did not get in.

Expanding to 8 won t eliminate the thought that someone got screwed. Fair to say teams in the 5-12 rankings are closer in comparison than they are to 1-4.

 

[HDK]

All you will get is eight of the ten championship game participants unless ND is undefeated or with one loss and you have a good chance of a conference championship game rematch. I doubt tv wants that.

How about a compromise of six with the highest two seeds getting a first round bye?

 

[HDK]

Expanding to 8 won t eliminate the thought that someone got screwed. Fair to say teams in the 5-12 rankings are closer in comparison than they are to 1-4.

I see a world of difference in being left out if you are the fifth best team, versus the ninth or 10th.

 

[NDIRISH53]

This is why a 4 team playoff is so stupid. We have to get to eight. I don't want to hear "but then we will need 16", that's bullshit.

I think I'm the only one who loves the 4 team playoff

 

[echowaker]

How about a compromise of six with the highest two seeds getting a first round bye?

Very interesting. Another argument against 8 is what about the fans or parents of players ? Travel to a conference championship game then have to travel to potentially three more locations in a month or so ? How many folks could afford that ?

 

[echowaker]

I think I'm the only one who loves the 4 team playoff

I like it. I liked the bcs too.

 

[echowaker]

I see a world of difference of being left out if you are the fifth best team, versus the ninth or 10th.

Yeah but left out is left out.

 

[88ND]

If Clemson wins out with the ACC title it will be hard for any human to deny them a spot. Defending champs, etc.
TCU very well might win out. They play two ounces of defense which is five ounces more than any other big twelve school.
Big 10 winner with one or none losses.
Sec winner

 

[HDK]

Very interesting. Another argument against 8 is what about the fans or parents of players ? Travel to a conference championship game then have to travel to potentially three more locations in a month or so ? How many folks could afford that ?

That there may be too many games is the most compelling argument against expansion in my mind. I don't even like the idea that conference championships give one group of teams an extra game.

As to getting parents to and from games, I think schools should just pay their way. And when the NCAA enforcement goons come along, just tell them to go to hell. (And I'm serious about that: after the North Carolina ruling, I wouldn't pay any heed to what the NCAA has to say about anything.)

 

[Buguit]

8 teams is a waste. Would make the regular season less important. In reality the power 5 conference championship games are pretty much quarterfinal games. In six semifinal games in the three years of the playoff five games have been routes. Who wants to see Alabama against a conference runner up in a 1-8 match up ? 4 is plenty. That may hurt ND because they ll only have 12 games but that's their choice.

Ummm .... this is a glass half empty analysis .... less important ?..... just the opposite .... more teams playing meaningful games trying to get in

 

[Buguit]

I've said it befoe and I'll say it again .... a one loss ND will never get in ... never ..... the system is rigged against them .... ND can play the toughest schedule in the nation .... while Wisconsin or another lame Big 10 team with the weakest schedule in the nation will pass them with the same record when voters want to rationalize that ND doesn't play in a conference championship game ..... BS

I'll gladly be wrong on this one ..... you guys can dream .... but the sysem is bogus and run by voters who are biased and stupid

They'll invent another rationale if they have to .... reasoning can change to suit their needs as they see fit

Anyone remember geting leap frogged by OSU?

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

So why hasn't this idiotic chatter of ND getting into the playoff stopped?

 

[Buguit]

So why hasn't this idiotic chatter of ND getting into the playoff stopped?

Because if they go undefeated logic says they should be able to get in .... but some people don't understand that the Bowl Championship voters don't favor ND .... it is about $$$$ and the system is corrupt and anti-ND ..... the only way ND has a chance (not being in a conference) is to be undefeated ..... then they would have no choice

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Because if they go undefeated logic says they should be able to get in .... but some people don't understand that the Bowl Championship voters don't favor ND .... it is about $$$$ and the system is corrupt and anti-ND ..... the only way ND has a chance (not being in a conference) is to be undefeated ..... then they would have no choice

Right. Instead of understanding the system, they simply say it's negative talk. It's not negative to say that Penn State and TCU are more likely to get in. I hate to say this, but maybe more deserving as well.

 

[Buguit]

Right. Instead of understanding the system, they simply say it's negative talk. It's not negative to say that Penn State and TCU are more likely to get in. I hate to say this, but maybe more deserving as well.

Don't know much about TCU ... but Penn St is another potentially garbage team .... we will never know what they have since they also play nobody .... UM lost to a team at home that we dishragged at their field .... and OSU got smoked by Oklahoma at home ..... smoked

Of course none of this will matter at the end of the year ... WHY? ... because they play a conference championship game ... BS

Big Ten is the most overrated conference by a long shot

 

[HDK]

Because if they go undefeated logic says they should be able to get in .... but some people don't understand that the Bowl Championship voters don't favor ND .... it is about $$$$ and the system is corrupt and anti-ND ..... the only way ND has a chance (not being in a conference) is to be undefeated ..... then they would have no choice

The system is no more anti-ND than ND is anti-the-system. ND is the one that broke away to sign its own TV contract and used its leverage to get a sweetheart deal in the original BCS. The balance of power has simply shifted as it inevitably had to, and now ND finds itself increasingly isolated.

As to whether we get in with one loss, there's still a lot of variables out there.

 

[Buguit]

The system is no more anti-ND than ND is anti-the-system. ND is the one that broke away to sign its own TV contract and used its leverage to get a sweetheart deal in the original BCS. The balance of power has simply shifted as it inevitably had to, and now ND finds itself increasingly isolated.

As to whether we get in with one loss, there's still a lot of variables out there.

The TV contract came way before the BCS .... you can't break away from something that didn't exist ... even still ... are you saying it is rational or justified that their TV contract is held against them ... this should have absolutely nothing to with a team's merits for making a case for making the BCS.

Even if the BCS existed .... it sounds like you are saying ND should've turned it down ... expecting a team to turn down $$$ is crazy talk

 

[NIN Irish]

This thread is like watching talking heads and their predictions, i.e. Pointless.

 

[Irishjohn68]

Because if they go undefeated logic says they should be able to get in .... but some people don't understand that the Bowl Championship voters don't favor ND .... it is about $$$$ and the system is corrupt and anti-ND ..... the only way ND has a chance (not being in a conference) is to be undefeated ..... then they would have no choice

You don't think ND isn't going to make money? Sorry but if the almighty dollar is the criteria for getting into the playoffs, then ND will be a shoe in. ND is the cash cow.[/

 

[Buguit]

You don't think ND isn't going to make money? Sorry but if the almighty dollar is the criteria for getting into the playoffs, then ND will be a shoe in. ND is the cash cow.[/

You missed the point entirely .... your comment shows zero understanding of what my point was ... drinking and drugging again? ...

 

[ndfi65]

Very interesting. Another argument against 8 is what about the fans or parents of players ? Travel to a conference championship game then have to travel to potentially three more locations in a month or so ? How many folks could afford that ?

Gosh I don't know. My guess is plenty.How does Div II have 24 teams and Div III have 32 teams in the playoffs? Somehow they get it done. How do parents afford to have their kids play travel team baseball, AAU basketball, girls softball travel teams, etc. Many parents do this, traveling on weekends and staying in hotels. Your argument makes no sense.

 

[ndfi65]

I like it. I liked the bcs too.

Figures you would like the BCS. That was a swell system.

 

[ndfi65]

If Clemson wins out with the ACC title it will be hard for any human to deny them a spot. Defending champs, etc.
TCU very well might win out. They play two ounces of defense which is five ounces more than any other big twelve school.
Big 10 winner with one or none losses.
Sec winner

Why? They lost to Syracuse for gosh sake.

 

[88ND]

Why? They lost to Syracuse for gosh sake.

Yep...they lost to Pitt last year too. Who didn't have the best of records. But they played tough. Syracuse doesn't have the best of records..playing tough.
How did that work out? Playoff and national championship.
This year they are the defending champ. One loss if they win out...you better believe they will be in.

I want ND to be in as much as anyone but too many on here are being unrealistic thinking if ND wins out they're automatically in.
Something else needs to happen aside from just ND winning out.
TCU loses or Clemson gets a second loss...big ten winner has two losses.

Pac 12 is out. But we still need another falter somewhere.
Sec winner will go.
TCU looks like the best Big 12 team in a long time. They play a little defense.
ACC will have Clemson.

Lots of football left and other things will happen.
If Ohio State wins out..theyre in.
If Wisconsin wins out they're in.
If Penn State runs out theyre in.
In other words the big 10 winner needs two losses to be excluded.

Check this out...

What if auburn beats Bama. Then goes to sec title game and beats Georgia.

That is the ONLY way the sec doesn't get a team in.

LLLLLLLLLOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGGGG
Way to go.

Let's just win our games. It's all we can control. The rest is up to the football gods

 

[tbonesays]

How about we let things play out. There are way too many games left. Enjoy the ride.

No, we must discuss an 8 team playoff at every opportunity, or non-opportunity.

 

[echowaker]

Ummm .... this is a glass half empty analysis .... less important ?..... just the opposite .... more teams playing meaningful games trying to get in

you really want a 3 loss team in a 8 team playoff ?

 

[echowaker]

That there may be too many games is the most compelling argument against expansion in my mind. I don't even like the idea that conference championships give one group of teams an extra game.

As to getting parents to and from games, I think schools should just pay their way. And when the NCAA enforcement goons come along, just tell them to go to hell. (And I'm serious about that: after the North Carolina ruling, I wouldn't pay any heed to what the NCAA has to say about anything.)

i remember when we went to the rose bowl in 1988. my family had a tough time making reasonably priced travel arrangements and that was with 5 weeks notice. can't imagine week to week.

 

[echowaker]

Gosh I don't know. My guess is plenty.How does Div II have 24 teams and Div III have 32 teams in the playoffs? Somehow they get it done. How do parents afford to have their kids play travel team baseball, AAU basketball, girls softball travel teams, etc. Many parents do this, traveling on weekends and staying in hotels. Your argument makes no sense.

no, you make no sense. are those venues in major metropolitan markets ? do they draw 80 thousand people ? what do you think ticket prices are at those games ? simple supply and demand drives up the prices. clueless as always.

 

[echowaker]

Figures you would like the BCS. That was a swell system.

i feel even better about it now.

 

[HDK]

The TV contract came way before the BCS .... you can't break away from something that didn't exist ... even still ... are you saying it is rational or justified that their TV contract is held against them ... this should have absolutely nothing to with a team's merits for making a case for making the BCS.

Even if the BCS existed .... it sounds like you are saying ND should've turned it down ... expecting a team to turn down $$$ is crazy talk

The CFA contract was the first example of the college football powers leveraging their popularity. ND's NBC contract escalated things and came even as our executive vice president was on the committee negotiating the new CFA contract. (And people wonder why the conferences don't really give a rat's ass about us?) While we held onto our power through the first version of the playoff system, the rise of the super conferences effectively signaled the end of our ability to call the tune.

I'm not saying it's fair or unfair that ND pretty much has to go undefeated to get into the playoffs. I'm saying ND acted selfishly 25 years ago (and has continued to do so with its conference tie-ins for other sports) and its fans should not be surprised the super conferences aren't too concerned about what happens to us.

 

[echowaker]

The CFA contract was the first example of the college football powers leveraging their popularity. ND's NBC contract escalated things and came even as our executive vice president was on the committee negotiating the new CFA contract. (And people wonder why the conferences don't really give a rat's ass about us?) While we held onto our power through the first version of the playoff system, the rise of the super conferences effectively signaled the end of our ability to call the tune.

I'm not saying it's fair or unfair that ND pretty much has to go undefeated to get into the playoffs. I'm saying ND acted selfishly 25 years ago (and has continued to do so with its conference tie-ins for other sports) and its fans should not be surprised the super conferences aren't too concerned about what happens to us.

i agree, if nd does not get in so be it. They made their bed.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Gosh I don't know. My guess is plenty.How does Div II have 24 teams and Div III have 32 teams in the playoffs? Somehow they get it done. How do parents afford to have their kids play travel team baseball, AAU basketball, girls softball travel teams, etc. Many parents do this, traveling on weekends and staying in hotels. Your argument makes no sense.

DII and DIII playoffs are based on regionals though. One of the goals in creating the bracket is minimizing travel and bc of the smaller set up in the divisions the comparison isnt really fair. Also not all these parents do travel youth sports so sure the affluent familes can travel but and 8 team play still excludes a lot of people.