HC Kelly talks academic issues

[IrishBlooded]

Not exactly what you want to hear:

LINK

Notre Dame Football: Brian Kelly On Academic Issues: “All Of My Football Players Are At-Risk”
Dan Lyons

Flickr/Neon Tommy

Late last summer, Notre Dame football was hit with an academic scandal that cost five players their 2014 seasons. While the worst-case scenario was avoided, Brian Kelly is still taking lessons from the incident, and spoke about the many travails that face football players at the school, which prides itself on high academic standards. Notably, Kelly acknowledges that most of his team would not make it to South Bend on their academic resumes alone. ND Insider caught up with Kelly as the probe reaches its conclusion, almost a year after it began.

As the academic dishonesty probe, that started last July, approaches final resolution for the last two of the five players involved, here are Kelly’s thoughts on Notre Dame’s effort to move forward with lessons learned along the way:

“I think we recognized that all of my football players are at-risk — all of them — really. Honestly, I don’t know that any of our players would get into the school by themselves right now with the academic standards the way they are. Maybe one or two of our players that are on scholarship.

“So making sure that with the rigors that we put them in — playing on the road, playing night games, getting home at 4 o’clock in the morning, all of the demands that we place on them relative to the academics and going into an incredibly competitive academic classroom every day — we recognize this is a different group.

“And we have to provide all the resources necessary for them to succeed and don’t force them into finding shortcuts.

“I think we’ve clearly identified that we need to do better, and we’re not afraid to look at any shortcomings that we do have and fix them, and provide the resources necessary for our guys. Our university has looked at that, and we’re prepared to make sure that happens for our guys.”

Notre Dame fans probably don’t like to hear about their guys being “at-risk,” but after last year’s issues, one would imagine that the support staff will be on high alert when it comes to avoiding more instances of “academic dishonesty.”

 

[BGI User 348]

"....all the resources....". IMO Academic Services let us all down with Golson and The Five! GET BETTER ND!!!

 

[twalsh]

"....all the resources....". IMO Academic Services let us all down with Golson and The Five! GET BETTER ND!!!

Academic services cannot keep people from cheating or taking shortcuts.

 

[tkirish]

You know it's a fine line to teeter when wanting to have a championship level program and high academic standards for the players. The reality is that only a small group of players can be in that category. Most players are good academically not great. No one wants the Irish to lower its standards. But if they want to truly compete for championships they have to figure out a way to get elite talent while not compromising its acedemic integrity. That is going to very difficult to do.
The other way to compete is to play a style of football that you can consistently win with. ND through its history has always been a run first team. Pass first offenses rarely produce good results for the Irish. In Kelly's 5 years, the best year was when they ran the ball and played solid defense without giving up big plays. I think when all is said and done ND can remain relevant academically and have a top ten program if they keep the game simple. They can always get linemen and great running backs. A run game is a defenses best friend. Maybe this year with Zaire they can run more effectively and keep the defense fresh.

 

[Granite45]

"....all the resources....". IMO Academic Services let us all down with Golson and The Five! GET BETTER ND!!!

Let the players down how? What is your real evidence?

 

[IrishBlooded]

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Graphic was posted on 6-10

 

[WhySeperateKnob]

"....all the resources....". IMO Academic Services let us all down with Golson and The Five! GET BETTER ND!!!

348......You're risking getting drummed out of the Fox News corps when you ignore the tenets of personal responsibility and accountability for one's actions........

 

[TurnoverMachine]

]

Graphic was posted on 6-10

The only title ND will ever win. It's smart to go all-in on this for the long haul. It saves Kelly and Swarbrick from getting fired.

 

[TDIrish1]

TWalsh

I agree-----and I don't think eliminating the Foreign Language helps a bit.

If you're a serious HS Student in todays world you take at least 2 years of Foreign Language.

If you aren't a serious student you aren't a fit here-----period. You don't have to be a valedictorian but the degree has to be important to you.

Plenty of options for a kid if that isn't the case.

 

[NDSMC78]

The only title ND will ever win. It's smart to go all-in on this for the long haul. It saves Kelly and Swarbrick from getting fired.

Any wonder why I have consistently called out this poster as not being an ND fan?

 

[BGI User 1596]

The one change that I would make is do away with the foreign language requirement. We've passed on several players because they didn't have foreign language courses in high school. They must be good students in high school or ND will grind them into flour. I would keep the 2.8 gpa and 24 ACT score. I would expand academic support services for them and lessen class load to 12 hours during the fall semester.

Americans have turned the Queens' English into a foreign language.

 

[IrishBlooded]

The only title ND will ever win. It's smart to go all-in on this for the long haul. It saves Kelly and Swarbrick from getting fired.

How to know TM is here
- anti Kelly check
- anti J. Swarbrick check
- anti current ND football team check
- somehow believing this opinion is worth than a bag of beans......... check

 

[NDSMC78]

How to know TM is here
- anti Kelly check
- anti J. Swarbrick check
- anti current ND football team check
- somehow believing this opinion is worth than a bag of beans......... check

So far, so good, but you left out the "no good recruits want to come to (or stay at) ND."

 

[Granite45]

The one change that I would make is do away with the foreign language requirement. We've passed on several players because they didn't have foreign language courses in high school. They must be good students in high school or ND will grind them into flour. I would keep the 2.8 gpa and 24 ACT score. I would expand academic support services for them and lessen class load to 12 hours during the fall semester.

Almost all universities require at least 2 years foreign language in high school. It is almost unconscionable for any college-bound student not to be advised to fulfill this requirement. Borderline incompetent school counselor.

 

[IrishBlooded]

So far, so good, but you left out the "no good recruits want to come to (or stay at) ND."

That's usually more of Pers

But yeah, I'll give ya that one

 

[mokpra]

I am a foreign language teacher. Two years of foreign language in high school is not all that tough. Study a little, and the teacher will probably give you at least a C for the effort. Give the players more help once they are in, but let other schools take athletes that are only athletes in high school and have taken basket weaving, gym IV and office aide as electives while struggling through remedial English, Math and Science classes. ND needs to stay true to its values.

 

[onlyonenow]

HOLD THAT LINE NOTRE DAME!!!

take the idiots like TM and company and humiliate them by laughing at them

 

[TeddyOH]

Stepping back to the OP and big picture, I'm quite disappointed in Kelly's comments on this. Normally, Kelly is so diplomatic in what he says about Notre Dame, and he always paints the University in a good light. Reread some of his weekly quotes on the academic suspensions last season. Never did he say anything that put ND in a bad light. He navigated a minefield.

When I read the ESPN front page headline, I thought perhaps it was taken out of context. I reread the article and quotes twice, and there's no other way to put it. He has hurt the image of Notre Dame.

The money quotes:

• "all of my football players are at-risk"
• "Honestly, I don't know that any of our players would get into the school by themselves right now with the academic standards the way they are. Maybe one or two of our players that are on scholarship."

Look, we all know these are totally true statements. Have you looked at the recent stats for incoming frosh at ND? It's ridiculous! However, he didn't need to say it so blatantly. He gave the media a very juicy soundbite that will come back to haunt us - FOREVER.

He was trying to make a point that I think he could have said in a much more positive way: If you are choosing to play football, at ND you will be a student first, then an athlete. You don't "major" in football. We realize that is difficult, and we have let down some of our players recently. We have made significant changes and are doing everything we can to help our current and future students succeed.

This is actually an advantage! This is a way to separate ourselves from "football factories" in the BCS conferences. Kelly can walk into a living room and tell the recruit and parents that at ND, he will be a student and earn his degree. He'll live with other regular students, eat with them, take classes with them and socialize with them. You are truly a part of a great community. The alternative is really an NFL minor league with minimal class requirements. For god sakes, Johnny Football was enrolled online at A&M and was rarely even on campus other than the football facilities. I think there are quite a few recruits (and many parents) that WANT that. The ones that don't will never make it at ND anyway.

I think they caught Kelly on a bad day or when he wasn't thinking. Unfortunate.

 

[schadenfreude]

Stepping back to the OP and big picture, I'm quite disappointed in Kelly's comments on this. Normally, Kelly is so diplomatic in what he says about Notre Dame, and he always paints the University in a good light. Reread some of his weekly quotes on the academic suspensions last season. Never did he say anything that put ND in a bad light. He navigated a minefield.

When I read the ESPN front page headline, I thought perhaps it was taken out of context. I reread the article and quotes twice, and there's no other way to put it. He has hurt the image of Notre Dame.

The money quotes:

• "all of my football players are at-risk"
• "Honestly, I don't know that any of our players would get into the school by themselves right now with the academic standards the way they are. Maybe one or two of our players that are on scholarship."

Look, we all know these are totally true statements. Have you looked at the recent stats for incoming frosh at ND? It's ridiculous! However, he didn't need to say it so blatantly. He gave the media a very juicy soundbite that will come back to haunt us - FOREVER.

He was trying to make a point that I think he could have said in a much more positive way: If you are choosing to play football, at ND you will be a student first, then an athlete. You don't "major" in football. We realize that is difficult, and we have let down some of our players recently. We have made significant changes and are doing everything we can to help our current and future students succeed.

This is actually an advantage! This is a way to separate ourselves from "football factories" in the BCS conferences. Kelly can walk into a living room and tell the recruit and parents that at ND, he will be a student and earn his degree. He'll live with other regular students, eat with them, take classes with them and socialize with them. You are truly a part of a great community. The alternative is really an NFL minor league with minimal class requirements. For god sakes, Johnny Football was enrolled online at A&M and was rarely even on campus other than the football facilities. I think there are quite a few recruits (and many parents) that WANT that. The ones that don't will never make it at ND anyway.

I think they caught Kelly on a bad day or when he wasn't thinking. Unfortunate.

I would say most are granted a degree. The football players do not "earn" their degrees in the same way as a normal ND student. This is the reason you don't see football players who have graduated getting the same sort of jobs as other ND graduates.

 

[BGI User 1596]

I would say most are granted a degree. The football players do not "earn" their degrees in the same way as a normal ND student. This is the reason you don't see football players who have graduated getting the same sort of jobs as other ND graduates.

You are confusing Michigan academics with ND - Michigan coach Hardballs already told us they take fluff for classes - ND linebacker James Onwualu is working on Wall Street this summer - there was even a bidding war between Morgan and BofA for his services. This is why the ND and Stanford are special places - true students.

 

[TeddyOH]

I would say most are granted a degree. The football players do not "earn" their degrees in the same way as a normal ND student. This is the reason you don't see football players who have graduated getting the same sort of jobs as other ND graduates.

Sorry schade. Without slinging any mud, ND football players absolutely EARN their degrees.

I know first hand as a former student in classes and doing group projects with them frequently. Second hand info as posted just above is easy to come by as well. I can compose an endless list of former ND football players who have gone on to much greater things and jobs than the NFL.

As for your implication... Yes, ND athletes get extra help. They have priority in class registration. They have academic advisers. They have special group study halls. All of this is necessary to balance the crazy time demands of football and a full class schedule. However, THEY TAKE THE CLASSES AND DO THE WORK. Any doubt, just look what happened last year when a group had some help on an assignment! No special "easy" majors. I specifically remember Tim Ruddy from my time at ND. All-American OL on the 1993 team. 2nd round pick of the Dolphins and played for 9 years in the NFL. He had almost a 4.0 in mechanical engineering while a starter for the team. He had to make up labs after hours. Just crazy how hard he worked. There are just so many examples of this.

 

[schadenfreude]

You are confusing Michigan academics with ND - Michigan coach Hardballs already told us they take fluff for classes - ND linebacker James Onwualu is working on Wall Street this summer - there was even a bidding war between Morgan and BofA for his services. This is why the ND and Stanford are special places - true students.

If you want to think ND is a magical place that can take players who are just slightly better than the NCAA minimum requirements and turn them into captains of industry, be my guest. But the facts say that the jobs a football player ends up with vs that of a normal graduate are quite different.

 

[schadenfreude]

Sorry schade. Without slinging any mud, ND football players absolutely EARN their degrees.

I know first hand as a former student in classes and doing group projects with them frequently. Second hand info as posted just above is easy to come by as well. I can compose an endless list of former ND football players who have gone on to much greater things and jobs than the NFL.

As for your implication... Yes, ND athletes get extra help. They have priority in class registration. They have academic advisers. They have special group study halls. All of this is necessary to balance the crazy time demands of football and a full class schedule. However, THEY TAKE THE CLASSES AND DO THE WORK. No special "easy" majors. I specifically remember Tim Ruddy from my time at ND. All-American OL on the 1993 team. 2nd round pick of the Dolphins and played for 9 years in the NFL. He had almost a 4.0 in mechanical engineering while a starter for the team. He had to make up labs after hours. Just crazy how hard he worked. There are just so many examples of this.

No, no special easy majors. But if you show up for all the classes and hand in all your work, you will graduate. And I would say your example of Tim Ruddy is far from typical.

 

[BGI User 1596]

If you want to think ND is a magical place that can take players who are just slightly better than the NCAA minimum requirements and turn them into captains of industry, be my guest. But the facts say that the jobs a football player ends up with vs that of a normal graduate are quite different.

You are speaking from the typical Michigan Walmart employee perspective - ND and Stanford don't pooch punt kids like the Football Factories - you have to take and pass Calculus at ND - Michigan kids don't even know what it is. There was an ex-Michigan QB a few months ago whining that he wasn't allowed to go into engineering at Michigan because he was on the Football squad .... he was railed into fluff 101 and now regrets it.

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2014/09/former_michigan_qb_michael_tay.html

 

[twalsh]

Then don't cry like a bunch of babies after ND passes on a player because he hasn't taken a foreign language. It's happen twice in the past three years and will likely happen again.

I never have. And no plans to start.

 

[Granite45]

Then don't cry like a bunch of babies after ND passes on a player because he hasn't taken a foreign language. It's happen twice in the past three years and will likely happen again.

Do not remember ever doing so. Do you have some recollection of me crying about recruits? I generally do not follow recruiting at all other than reading news on signing day.

 

[IrishBlooded]

If you want to think ND is a magical place that can take players who are just slightly better than the NCAA minimum requirements and turn them into captains of industry, be my guest. But the facts say that the jobs a football player ends up with vs that of a normal graduate are quite different.

Then show us the facts. Show where the average football player earns less then the average standard student.

If you are going to claim a difference. Prove it.

 

[schadenfreude]

Then show us the facts. Show where the average football player earns less then the average standard student.

If you are going to claim a difference. Prove it.

lol, it is true everywhere. A high school student who has top SAT scores and finishes near the top of his/her class (i.e. a non athlete at ND) is generally going to get better job offers than an athlete who has marginal SAT scores and a grade inflated B average. Maybe you are counting NFL contracts?

 

[tkirish]

Sounds to me like Kelly is frustrated with the whole situation. I doubt he would have made those comments in year 2 or 3. There is a reason why Meyer or Stoops or any other big name won't coach in South Bend. Think of how difficult it must be knowing at any time your players can be ruled academically ineligible. What other school would suspend their star QB a month after being in the championship ? Then 5 players last year, 3 which were key starters. You can't win without the horses. I don't know what the answer is. My guess is that Kelly may be done at ND soon. Not because he gets fired but rather he simply leaves. As long as the restrictions stay in place, it won't matter who is coaching. I think maybe playing a different style like Navy does would help. It's great having high grad rates for football. But at the same time losing games you should win stinks. That is the current status if ND football.

 

[schadenfreude]

Sounds to me like Kelly is frustrated with the whole situation. I doubt he would have made those comments in year 2 or 3. There is a reason why Meyer or Stoops or any other big name won't coach in South Bend. Think of how difficult it must be knowing at any time your players can be ruled academically ineligible. What other school would suspend their star QB a month after being in the championship ? Then 5 players last year, 3 which were key starters. You can't win without the horses. I don't know what the answer is. My guess is that Kelly may be done at ND soon. Not because he gets fired but rather he simply leaves. As long as the restrictions stay in place, it won't matter who is coaching. I think maybe playing a different style like Navy does would help. It's great having high grad rates for football. But at the same time losing games you should win stinks. That is the current status if ND football.

He either is making an excuse for himself, lobbying the ND powers to change standards (strange to do in public), or saying this to impress the parents of recruits. Odd mixed message.

 

[Rockne's Rambler]

"....all the resources....". IMO Academic Services let us all down with Golson and The Five! GET BETTER ND!!!

How does Stanford do it?

 

[tkirish]

If he is saying things to get the administration to change their policy, good luck with that. Fr Hesburgh set the standard years ago while Frank Leahy was the head coach. He knocked the head coach off his perch. We run the university coach, not you. That has been the case ever since. I think at most schools the football program is considered a separate entity. Coaches have all kinds of power. ND does not a and will not operate like that. I just think that by him making that comment he opened the door for his departure.

 

[tkirish]

Stanford has been good in recent years. However they were never a football power. To answer the question how do they do it? I reiterate the style of football they play helps them be competitive. They get big offensive linemen, great QBs and good backs. They play power football and in today's game of spread it out, it is a perfect style. They don't get elite skill players. But the players they do get are big physical and smart. The defense is solid because they also play physical. ND can play that style and be very successful with the kind of players they want and get. If I were the coach, Stanford style would be the ticket for the Irish.

 

[IrishHerb]

Stanford has been good in recent years. However they were never a football power. To answer the question how do they do it? I reiterate the style of football they play helps them be competitive. They get big offensive linemen, great QBs and good backs. They play power football and in today's game of spread it out, it is a perfect style. They don't get elite skill players. But the players they do get are big physical and smart. The defense is solid because they also play physical. ND can play that style and be very successful with the kind of players they want and get. If I were the coach, Stanford style would be the ticket for the Irish.

Well said tk.

Parseghian, Devine and Holtz were successful with basically that style. Once in a while they'd get some exceptional skill players and could modify their style while they were there. But basically they all played physical football with good sound defense and running games.

 

[IrishHerb]

The one change that I would make is do away with the foreign language requirement. We've passed on several players because they didn't have foreign language courses in high school. They must be good students in high school or ND will grind them into flour. I would keep the 2.8 gpa and 24 ACT score. I would expand academic support services for them and lessen class load to 12 hours during the fall semester.

One opinion regarding ND's foreign language requirement for admission … you have to remember that ND still has a foreign language requirement to graduate. One has to attain the level of "intermediate" (whatever that means) in some foreign language offered by the university and accepted by one's major and/or school. Should a prospective admit not have foreign language, how would ND know if that student would ever be able to succeed in one at ND?

 

[Granite45]

Well said tk.

Parseghian, Devine and Holtz were successful with basically that style. Once in a while they'd get some exceptional skill players and could modify their style while they were there. But basically they all played physical football with good sound defense and running games.

Except, none of their success came with the 85 scholarship limit. Even Holtz has his best success with 95 scholarships. There is no comparison here of any type much less style of play.

 

[BGI User 348]

If Stanford......duke.......GT.......BC.........northwestern...navy......air force.....heck even vandy..... were all "2 & 10 " programs then I would feel ND was definitely fighting a tough battle for quality STUDENT-ATHLETES. BUT they are ALL winning! Hence there are many TOP students around plus many others at other schools to recruit to ND. As someone who played at a high level for a top academic school and also had Ivy experience with a son....I know there are MANY that are proud to accomplish both. Monitoring them once they get admitted is then the next challenge.......

 

[Bodizephax]

If Stanford......duke.......GT.......BC.........northwestern...navy......air force.....heck even vandy..... were all "2 & 10 " programs then I would feel ND was definitely fighting a tough battle for quality STUDENT-ATHLETES. BUT they are ALL winning! Hence there are many TOP students around plus many others at other schools to recruit to ND. As someone who played at a high level for a top academic school and also had Ivy experience with a son....I know there are MANY that are proud to accomplish both. Monitoring them once they get admitted is then the next challenge.......

NorthWestern, Stanford, Boston College, Duke, Air Force, Navy, and Vanderbilt have never even sniffed a National Championship. You just proved the opposite point--- You need players like they get at Alabama, Ohio State, and Oregon if you want to be a football power,.

 

[BGI User 348]

Bod........my point was if ND can recruit the BEST athletes from similar colleges there is enough talent around WITH smarts to win an NC. Guys like.......Luck........Kuechley......Peat....Murphy......Ertz....Fleener.......etc

 

[TDIrish1]

Weren't we in the MNC Game in 2012 ?