Have ND fans expectations and standards decreased?

[allaboutthecash]

ND fans standards and expectations have always been of excellence. Holtz was virtually run out of ND for losing 3 games a year and loosening acepademic standards. Since Holtz, the last 25 years have been very difficult for ND. The Kelly regime has been slightly better than the past 3 coaches but after 6 years he still has not won anything of significance, which normally would be unacceptable to the ND fan.
2015 ND football lost 3 games, didn't win anything and beat no one of significance yet ND fans are now celebrating 2015 as a accomplishment?
So the question is have ND fans decreased their expectations because they are now accustomed to losing and Kelly at least wins more games than he loses? Do ND fans even care about titles anymore and just want to finish better than 500?
Will ND fans demand more, hold Kelly accountable and start expecting titles in 2016 or seek change in leadership?

 

[NDSMC78]

Cash's challenge for today: can I be even a bigger dick than I was yesterday.

 

[schadenfreude]

You are not looking at the season in context. On the play when Zaire went down, if ND fans were asked "would you take a ten win season right now?", 99% would have answered yes. It is only because Kizer wildly exceeded expectations (thanks to Kelly) that ND fans again started dreaming of a playoff slot.

If there were no significant injuries, then yes, 10-3 with the best win being over Navy would not have been a good year.

 

[allaboutthecash]

It's been 6 long years, Kelly has had enough time. This year was injuries, before it was qb than it was offensive coordinator, now it's defensive coordinator. The fact is ND has had the talent to win big yet in 6 years they have won nothing.
Saban, Meyer , shaw and others have won bcs games, conf titles, January bowls or titles in their first 3 years. Kelly now is 6 years in and has won no more than Weis , ty or Davie, no bcs games, no playoff games , no title games no January bowl wins etc...
It's time ND fans start holding Kelly accountable , stop making excuses , stop talking about the next year and start demanding excellence again.

 

[NDSMC78]

It's been 6 long years, Kelly has had enough time. This year was injuries, before it was qb than it was offensive coordinator, now it's defensive coordinator. The fact is ND has had the talent to win big yet in 6 years they have won nothing.
Saban, Meyer , shaw and others have won bcs games, conf titles, January bowls or titles in their first 3 years. Kelly now is 6 years in and has won no more than Weis , ty or Davie, no bcs games, no playoff games , no title games no January bowl wins etc...
It's time ND fans start holding Kelly accountable , stop making excuses , stop talking about the next year and start demanding excellence again.

Why do you care what Notre Dame fans do? You are not a Notre Dame fan. You are a Florida fan. Or at least you were a Florida fan until you became an Ohio St. fan. Next week, maybe you will be a fan of some other team.
But Your post is, as usual, replete with lies. Kelly's record is significantly better than that of Davie, Willingham and Weis. Kelly got to the NC game and lost. A lot of coaches never get to the NC game at all.
Stop the hair pulling. Stop the flaming. Stop the angst. Stop the dick.

 

[perseverare]

ND does not recruit, full roster talent, at the level of the Top 6-8 teams. To say ND has talent at that level as your basis to criticize Kelly is unjustified.

 

[Nocalirish]

It's been 6 long years, Kelly has had enough time. This year was injuries, before it was qb than it was offensive coordinator, now it's defensive coordinator. The fact is ND has had the talent to win big yet in 6 years they have won nothing.
Saban, Meyer , shaw and others have won bcs games, conf titles, January bowls or titles in their first 3 years. Kelly now is 6 years in and has won no more than Weis , ty or Davie, no bcs games, no playoff games , no title games no January bowl wins etc...
It's time ND fans start holding Kelly accountable , stop making excuses , stop talking about the next year and start demanding excellence again.

Cash you are not an ND fan but just a flamer who provides no sollutions. The ignore button was made for you.

 

[Irish Grandeur]

ND fans standards and expectations have always been of excellence. Holtz was virtually run out of ND for losing 3 games a year and loosening acepademic standards. Since Holtz, the last 25 years have been very difficult for ND. The Kelly regime has been slightly better than the past 3 coaches but after 6 years he still has not won anything of significance, which normally would be unacceptable to the ND fan.
2015 ND football lost 3 games, didn't win anything and beat no one of significance yet ND fans are now celebrating 2015 as a accomplishment?
So the question is have ND fans decreased their expectations because they are now accustomed to losing and Kelly at least wins more games than he loses? Do ND fans even care about titles anymore and just want to finish better than 500?
Will ND fans demand more, hold Kelly accountable and start expecting titles in 2016 or seek change in leadership?

I have absolutely no problems with what you say. I am not sure ND will ever catch up with the money being spent to win championships. I hope so but 'I hope' every single year. BK has taken ND further than any coach since Lou but he seems to lack a 'killer instinct'.

 

[TurnoverMachine]

ND fans standards and expectations have always been of excellence. Holtz was virtually run out of ND for losing 3 games a year and loosening acepademic standards. Since Holtz, the last 25 years have been very difficult for ND. The Kelly regime has been slightly better than the past 3 coaches but after 6 years he still has not won anything of significance, which normally would be unacceptable to the ND fan.
2015 ND football lost 3 games, didn't win anything and beat no one of significance yet ND fans are now celebrating 2015 as a accomplishment?
So the question is have ND fans decreased their expectations because they are now accustomed to losing and Kelly at least wins more games than he loses? Do ND fans even care about titles anymore and just want to finish better than 500?
Will ND fans demand more, hold Kelly accountable and start expecting titles in 2016 or seek change in leadership?

Yes, they have. In about 90% of the fan base 8-4 is good enough to them- every year.

 

[NDSMC78]

Yes, they have. In about 90% of the fan base 8-4 is good enough to them- every year.

Another idiotic post by this idiot.

 

[Duo]

Wait a minute here. The OP has me confused.............isn't Kelly a breath of fresh air compared to Davie, Willingham and Weis? Didn't ND actually play Alabama in the NC recently (albeit lost rather handily)? Would the OP rather go back to the days of Davie, Willingham and Weis losing to Navy and Tulsa, etc.? And how about Kelly's recruiting? Maybe not the greatest compared to the top 3 or 4 but certainly a lot better tan Davie, Willingham and Weis. Am I missing something here?

 

[t_money86]

Wait a minute here. The OP has me confused.............isn't Kelly a breath of fresh air compared to Davie, Willingham and Weis? Didn't ND actually play Alabama in the NC recently (albeit lost rather handily)? Would the OP rather go back to the days of Davie, Willingham and Weis losing to Navy and Tulsa, etc.? And how about Kelly's recruiting? Maybe not the greatest compared to the top 3 or 4 but certainly a lot better tan Davie, Willingham and Weis. Am I missing something here?

The OP is not an ND fan. He is one of the worst troll/flaming p.o.s. this board has ever had the misfortune of having. He knows jack sh*t about the program but what he sees on the surface that the eSECpn's and other outlets spew.

 

[allaboutthecash]

Wait a minute here. The OP has me confused.............isn't Kelly a breath of fresh air compared to Davie, Willingham and Weis? Didn't ND actually play Alabama in the NC recently (albeit lost rather handily)? Would the OP rather go back to the days of Davie, Willingham and Weis losing to Navy and Tulsa, etc.? And how about Kelly's recruiting? Maybe not the greatest compared to the top 3 or 4 but certainly a lot better tan Davie, Willingham and Weis. Am I missing something here?

Your post proves that ND fans expectations have decreased over the years. First, it was Kelly that lost to Tulsa and Navy which is even funnier. You are happy with Kelly because he is better than the horrible coaches before them even though Kelly is not elite and hasn't won anything significant while at ND. Anyone who watched the 2012 season would agree it was just a very very fortunate year(fools gold) and the title game proved ND has no business being there. Kelly has had some terrible losses including Tulsa, Navy, USF, Northwestern, Pitt a bad Michigan team, kidding and Sark.
Fact is a lot of ND fans are happy with Kelly because he is better than Weis, Ty and Davie even though he is not elite and has won nothing in 6 years. So yes, you proved my point ND fans don't expect excellence anymore they are happy with marginal success as long as it's not horrible.

 

[NDSMC78]

Your post proves that ND fans expectations have decreased over the years. First, it was Kelly that lost to Tulsa and Navy which is even funnierYou are happy with Kelly because he is better than the horrible coaches before them even though Kelly is not elite and hasn't won anything significant while at ND. Anyone who watched the 2012 season would agree it was just a very very fortunate year(fools gold) and the title game proved ND has no business being there. Kelly has had some terrible losses including Tulsa, Navy, USF, Northwestern, Pitt a bad Michigan team, kidding and Sark.
Fact is a lot of ND fans are happy with Kelly because he is better than Weis, Ty and Davie even though he is not elite and has won nothing in 6 years. So yes, you proved my point ND fans don't expect excellence anymore they are happy with marginal success as long as it's not horrible.

The cancer has returned.

 

[SwlaDukie]

I think Kelly is more excepted, because he has players on the field that actually can compete at a high level. He also has developed kids who have had an impact at the next level. His ability to put kids in the best positions to succeed to make an impact like Prosise, Onwalu, Tillery, Russell, and Eifert. More importantly he doesn't have to sell his soul to do so. He has standards and a backbone. No Reggie Nelson's or Aaron Hernandez's running around shooting at people Saturday night after the game and not being suspended with Bk. Of course injuries have been huge for this team, but every team has to deal with that. But the suspensions combined with the injuries have really hurt the last 3 years.
On the contrary, anyone who doesn't think that Kelly is a great coach is kidding their selves. Otherwise their wouldn't be so much turnover in his coaching staff, a great coach not only coaches up his players but his assistants as well. To be honest I think that is why ND fans expect more from him and the program, because his talents as a program developer. Anyone that can go 12 and 0 through a regular season with a freshman Golson and Tommy Rees is a heck of coach trust me. If that offense was anything like this one that game would have been a lot closer.

 

[allaboutthecash]

I think Kelly is more excepted, because he has players on the field that actually can compete at a high level. He also has developed kids who have had an impact at the next level. His ability to put kids in the best positions to succeed to make an impact like Prosise, Onwalu, Tillery, Russell, and Eifert. More importantly he doesn't have to sell his soul to do so. He has standards and a backbone. No Reggie Nelson's or Aaron Hernandez's running around shooting at people Saturday night after the game and not being suspended with Bk. Of course injuries have been huge for this team, but every team has to deal with that. But the suspensions combined with the injuries have really hurt the last 3 years.
On the contrary, anyone who doesn't think that Kelly is a great coach is kidding their selves. Otherwise their wouldn't be so much turnover in his coaching staff, a great coach not only coaches up his players but his assistants as well. To be honest I think that is why ND fans expect more from him and the program, because his talents as a program developer. Anyone that can go 12 and 0 through a regular season with a freshman Golson and Tommy Rees is a heck of coach trust me. If that offense was anything like this one that game would have been a lot closer.

Ya the Kelly coaching tree is so impressive? lolo The Kelly coaching tree is flat out pathetic like his January bowl wins. Compare his coaching tree to great coaches like Meyer and Saban

 

[KJ23]

Kelly has done a great job getting ND back on TRACK. ND's goal should be 10-12 wins every year. Anything less should be a disappointment. The next step is to play the TOP 5 teams and actually win. Is Kelly the next step? Don't know.

 

[onlyonenow]

the fact that garbage like cash and the fsu haters and defenders are allowed free reign here is the real disgrace

 

[cgvr]

Ya the Kelly coaching tree is so impressive? lolo The Kelly coaching tree is flat out pathetic like his January bowl wins. Compare his coaching tree to great coaches like Meyer and Saban

Some on this board trashed David Shaw as a coach. Some also trashed Hogan who is beyond brilliant. Close to 100% of them don't even know that Shaw spent close to a decade doing something kelly probably never will do....that's coach in the NFL at any capacity. (He also played for Stanford). He followed that with a stretch working for/with Harbaugh and the baton was passed almost seamlessly to him. His coaching tree and accomplishments dwarf kelly's..

There is a base philosophy to football that Stanford deploys. It's in line with the NY Giants, Bears, Redskins, 'bama, osu, (um now roaring down this track)...others in their heyday. They line up and knock the crap out of you on both sides of the ball. They also mix in some finesse stuff, trick plays, linebacker, corner, safety stunts, other gadgets..., but at that core is smash mouth brutal physicality. It's football at its core.

They turned the corner vs us in 2009 and have gone 5-2 in that stretch. I envy their approach. Folks will point to this year's near miss. They can do the same on our legendary stop of Taylor. That's among the great moments of kelly's tenure.

Smashmouth is not kelly's bally-wick. He doesn't have the patience for it. He's a dink and dunk guy. I thought we had emerged into this brand in the Oklahoma '12 game. Holy hannah that was some effort and in the 4th quarter Oklahoma was pancaked/collapsed. (The deep shot to Chris Brown in that game was great)

Interestingly, many think that the "spread" is new age football. That's simply a crock of crap. Don Coryell was using 5 WRs and TEs as WRs in the 70s..... Read his wiki bio....

There is a place for balanced tenets of each style....

However, imo your core needs to be physical that's what gets you respect.

Right now, every team looks at ND as beatable....not with fear.

We need a base philosophy and attitude adjustment.

Watch what 'bama does if they are forced to go jumbo vs Clemson.

It's not in our playbook...

 

[88ND]

Some on this board trashed David Shaw as a coach. Some also trashed Hogan who is beyond brilliant. Close to 100% of them don't even know that Shaw spent close to a decade doing something kelly probably never will do....that's coach in the NFL at any capacity. (He also played for Stanford). He followed that with a stretch working for/with Harbaugh and the baton was passed almost seamlessly to him. His coaching tree and accomplishments dwarf kelly's..

There is a base philosophy to football that Stanford deploys. It's in line with the NY Giants, Bears, Redskins, 'bama, osu, (um now roaring down this track)...others in their heyday. They line up and knock the crap out of you on both sides of the ball. They also mix in some finesse stuff, trick plays, linebacker, corner, safety stunts, other gadgets..., but at that core is smash mouth brutal physicality. It's football at its core.

They turned the corner vs us in 2009 and have gone 5-2 in that stretch. I envy their approach. Folks will point to this year's near miss. They can do the same on our legendary stop of Taylor. That's among the great moments of kelly's tenure.

Smashmouth is not kelly's bally-wick. He doesn't have the patience for it. He's a dink and dunk guy. I thought we had emerged into this brand in the Oklahoma '12 game. Holy hannah that was some effort and in the 4th quarter Oklahoma was pancaked/collapsed. (The deep shot to Chris Brown in that game was great)

Interestingly, many think that the "spread" is new age football. That's simply a crock of crap. Don Coryell was using 5 WRs and TEs as WRs in the 70s..... Read his wiki bio....

There is a place for balanced tenets of each style....

However, imo your core needs to be physical that's what gets you respect.

Right now, every team looks at ND as beatable....not with fear.

We need a base philosophy and attitude adjustment.

Watch what 'bama does if they are forced to go jumbo vs Clemson.

It's not in our playbook...

The reason people think the spread is new is because they are confusing that with the zone read. Empty sets have been around for a looonnnggg time. The frequency that they were used was much different but they are not new. The zone read however out of a 1 back 4 wide formation is fairly recent. Now everyone runs it or some form of it.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

Lou Holtz teams rarely got manhandled on the field....regardless of the opponent. That is quite a departure from the current regime.

 

[cgvr]

Lou Holtz teams rarely got manhandled on the field....regardless of the opponent. That is quite a departure from the current regime.

Watch this 2 minute + clip. This is how you run sh**. Please note the first play and how Fr Luther Bradley knocks swann out of his helmet then shoves him when he goes to retrieve it.... swann is a senior and was consensus All American in '73. We had FR pushing him around. That's stone cold bad ass attitude. Note also that southern cal is the defending National Championship team.... We won the '73 championship. southern cal won again in '74. They were stacked. This is must watch stuff for incoming FR.... However, it doesn't fit kelly's "brand"....

 

[FLballcoach1]

ND was manhandled in the 1988 Cotton Bowl vs Texas A&M, manhandled in the 1987 regular season final vs Miami, manhandled by Penn State in 1991, manhandled by Stanford in 1992, manhandled by Boston College in 1994, manhandled by Ohio State in 1995 and 1996, manhandled by Colorado in the 1995 Fiesta Bowl.

Lou Holtz was a great coach but ND was ranked #1 in the nation in November in 1988, 1989, 1990 and 1993 and won 1 National Title. Brian Kelly wins 1 National Title at ND he is on equal footing with Lou Holtz. Not to mention he took over a program in worse shape AND in a period of time where it is harder to win.

 

[hvillebill]

Ya the Kelly coaching tree is so impressive? lolo The Kelly coaching tree is flat out pathetic like his January bowl wins. Compare his coaching tree to great coaches like Meyer and Saban

Well, once you get done servicing Meyer you can tell us how the great McElwain is going to do for the long haul.

 

[mmboys07]

Well; I don't know about how the back and forth above. I can only say, by the afternoon on Friday I had forgotten the game and was having no problem going about my business. I hardly dwelled on the ND loss. There was a time when my whole day, and several after, would be ruined by a ND loss. I never expected them to lose, even when they were the underdog. Now, I had little expectation they would beat Ohio State. I felt like Nostradamus; I could see how the game would unfold before it even started, and I wasn't far off. I can only hope they are once again the kings of college football.
At least, I suppose, they are in the national conversation a little more now. Finally, I still think Lou was robbed of two National Titles.