Friendly reminder: 12th ranked class with no 5 stars yet again in 2025 - Where's the evidence of a new level of performance going forward?

[chaseball]

A lot of optimism "going forward" from the fan base but the peripherals are the same this year & next year as they've been for the last 15 years where "good, but not good enough" has been the common theme in terms of NDs results throughout.

I see a lot of people excited about next year but what changes? Same level of talent being recruited ... no difference ... where is the gap being bridged? what evidence/peripherals can we point to that there's a whole other level of performance good enough to beat tier 1 teams going forward? We're a blue blood without a conference, its national title or bust. What is the point of having the upside to maybe be the 5th best team in the country twice a decade but never enough upside to be the #1 team in the country and make a legit national title run and win it all ?

 

[Golson5]

3 playoff wins and 2 NY6 wins is the evidence.

 

[chaseball]

3 playoff wins and 2 NY6 wins is the evidence.

I didnt see a lot of dominance in those wins or any proof that ND can maintain this level of performance going forward. It felt like a dream season where a lot of luck/external factors aligned for ND and they squeaked out some 50-50 type wins (Georgia and PSU game as an example) and then ND was completely out classed vs OSU

ND loses some good players, some good players return, some nice overlooked veteran producers will come in in the transfer portal, they'll lose some good vets in the portal, and younger players will develop and take their spot, etc. etc. but all of this is happening at a baseline similar to the last 10+ years .. there's no underlying metrics/evidence of some new level of performance on the horizon this is as good as its probably going to get given how much the team out performed their talent rankings this year

 

[Golson5]

I didnt see a lot of dominance in those wins or any proof that ND can maintain this level of performance going forward. It felt like a dream season where a lot of luck/external factors aligned for ND and they squeaked out some 50-50 type wins (Georgia and PSU game as an example) and then ND was completely out classed vs OSU

ND loses some good players, some good players return, some nice overlooked veteran producers will come in in the transfer portal, they'll lose some good vets in the portal, and younger players will develop and take their spot, etc. etc. but all of this is happening at a baseline similar to the last 10+ years .. there's no underlying metrics/evidence of some new level of performance on the horizon this is as good as its probably going to get given how much the team out performed their talent rankings this year

We have 0 playoff and ny6 wins in the last 10 years you mentioned. This year we had 3

 

[NDblitz]

So all the injuries ND had was luck? Man do not invite me to Vega$

 

[raulduke_007]

A lot of optimism "going forward" from the fan base but the peripherals are the same this year & next year as they've been for the last 15 years where "good, but not good enough" has been the common theme in terms of NDs results throughout.

I see a lot of people excited about next year but what changes? Same level of talent being recruited ... no difference ... where is the gap being bridged? what evidence/peripherals can we point to that there's a whole other level of performance good enough to beat tier 1 teams going forward? We're a blue blood without a conference, its national title or bust. What is the point of having the upside to maybe be the 5th best team in the country twice a decade but never enough upside to be the #1 team in the country and make a legit national title run and win it all ?

You have no life, no friends, no one that loves you. You were born a loser, you live your life as a loser and you will die a loser.

 

[chaseball]

So all the injuries ND had was luck? Man do not invite me to Vega$

ND had an unusual high amount of injuries this season for sure. I included "luck" as one of several other factors that contributed to their performance for a reason (it wasnt ALL luck). But they faced at least two teams on their schedule without their top quarterback playing, they've had a bunch of special teams and turnover related events/points that also don't really correlate well from season to season, and they seemed to get the majority of the close 'breaks' in the games throughout the playoffs.

There just isn't any evidence that ND can hang with the best teams in the country going forward and thats a shame.

This game feels like a game that exposed the program for just how ordinary it is and will continue to be going forward.

ND is sitting on endless bags of money -- will the proper investments be made to bridge the talent gap or are we going to waste a lot of prime years of another really good coach before he too gets fed up and jettisons south bend?

 

[raulduke_007]

ND had an unusual high amount of injuries this season for sure. I included "luck" as one of several other factors that contributed to their performance for a reason (it wasnt ALL luck). But they faced at least two teams on their schedule without their top quarterback playing, they've had a bunch of special teams and turnover related events/points that also don't really correlate well from season to season, and they seemed to get most of the close 'breaks' in the games throughout the playoffs. The PSU games is definitely a 50-50 game that could go either way (and this was NDs absolute ceiling). PSU is a nice team/program but not on the level of tier 1

There just isn't any evidence that ND can hang with the best teams in the country going forward and thats a shame.

This game feels like a game that exposed the program for just how ordinary it is and will continue to be going forward.

ND is sitting on endless bags of money -- will the proper investments be made to bridge the talent gap or are we going to waste a lot of prime years of another really good coach before he too gets fed up and jettisons south bend?

No one cares what you think because you are a loser and you will always be a loser.

 

[IrishExpert2288]

Both starting DE's, and best pass rushers are out, best interior DL is 50% at best, 2nd best interior DL is out, All Amercan shut down corner is out, All American RB has a brace on his knee. Your clownish posts have no substance or value, Just hot air

 

[chaseball]

Both starting DE's, and best pass rushers are out, best interior DL is 50% at best, 2nd best interior DL is out, All Amercan shut down corner is out, All American RB has a brace on his knee. Your clownish posts have no substance or value, Just hot air

its been a long season any team in the playoff is various levels of banged up less than 100% players up and down their 2 deep with starters missing.

 

[nd4life211]

Maybe you should cheer for another team. I’ve tried to tell you ND will never have 15 five stars on their roster like Ohio State. ND is different and attracts a special player, one who values academics over the NFL. 5 star recruits predominantly have their eyes set on the NFL.

This isn’t going to change, so I suggest you alter your expectations. ND will do well in the portal and snag a five star maybe once a year, twice if lucky. I hope you stop obsessing over this for your sake.

 

[chaseball]

Maybe you should cheer for another team. I’ve tried to tell you ND will never have 15 five stars on their roster like Ohio State. ND is different and attracts a special player, one who values academics over the NFL. 5 stat recruits predominantly have their eyes set on the NFL.

This isn’t going to change, so I suggest you alter your expectations. ND will do well in the portal and snag a five star maybe once a year, twice if lucky. I hope you stop obsessing over this for your sake.

Your entire post is nothing but old rhetoric cliches and platitudes straight from NDs PR machine that has been debunked six ways from Sunday

 

[sjb75]

Maybe you should cheer for another team. I’ve tried to tell you ND will never have 15 five stars on their roster like Ohio State. ND is different and attracts a special player, one who values academics over the NFL. 5 stat recruits predominantly have their eyes set on the NFL.

This isn’t going to change, so I suggest you alter your expectations. ND will do well in the portal and snag a five star maybe once a year, twice if lucky. I hope you stop obsessing over this for your sake.

Is this another chaseball alias?

 

[deadirishpoet]

Somehow i believe tou are not going to stop reminding the board

 

[chaseball]

Somehow i believe tou are not going to stop reminding the board

What gives though? At what point does Notre dame put two and two together and start making some much overdue very noticeable changes to the talent they are acquiring?

We're talking the wealthiest brand with the most fans in the sport.

At what point does the admins at the university start matching the fans enthusiasm with a national championship level investment in the football product?

I can't be the only human being on planet earth fed up with the yearly ass kicking ND is on the receiving end of on the recruiting trail can i? Why does nobody in the fan base/media acknowledge this situation / address the situation with the university / ask them whose accountable for it and why?

its like ths massive elephant in the room that nobody can speak of

 

[sjb75]

Somehow i believe tou are not going to stop reminding the board

These types of posts are a big problem in this Forum.

 

[sjb75]

How many chaseball aliases are there?

 

[4-4-3]

What gives though? At what point does Notre dame put two and two together and start making some much overdue very noticeable changes to the talent they are acquiring?

We're talking the wealthiest brand with the most fans in the sport.

At what point does the admins at the university start matching the fans enthusiasm with a national championship level investment in the football product?

I can't be the only human being on planet earth fed up with the yearly ass kicking ND is on the receiving end of on the recruiting trail can i? Why does nobody in the fan base/media acknowledge this situation / address the situation with the university / ask them whose accountable for it and why?

its like ths massive elephant in the room that nobody can speak of

You need to take up all of this DIRECTLY with ND. NO ONE HERE can relieve you of your AGONY.

You've stated your VIEW AD NAUSEUM, and people here -- NOT ALL, BUT MANY -- have provided you with REASONED, LOGICAL answers as to why ND -- barring some complete abandoment of its EDUCATIONAL MISSION -- has NO INTEREST in what you're proposing. You're BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE. Kind of like somone walking into a TRAPPIST MONASTERY and asking, "WHY DOESN'T ANYONE HERE HAVE MORE TO SAY?"

Why you've chosen this FUTILITY CRUSADE I've no idea. But you're completely ignoring the EVIDENCE as to how ND operates. And, YES, you're the ONLY ONE still beating this by now BEATEN-TO-A-PULP horse. And maybe as you fear -- ON ALL OF PLANET EARTH.

But let me just say it ONE MORE TIME. ND only takes players that they think can CUT IT ACADEMICALLY, and MANY 5-STARS can't. So, a lot of those players you're talking about are actually BEYOND CONSIDERATION. They're not in ND'S ACTUAL POOL.

If YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT coming from me, why don't you talk to the UNIVERSITY ITSELF and see what it tells you. Or to some CURRENT or FORMER PLAYERS. I'm sure they can provide you with a SATISFACTORY ANSWER.

But BANGING AWAY AT THIS RELENTLESSLY HERE just ALIENATES PEOPLE, many of whom have, in addition to a commitment to logic and common sense, A LOYALTY FIXATION which results in them considering you not only FACT-RESISTANT but HERETICAL.

I personally BEAR YOU NO ILL WILL. But this is nothing less than a DIRGE you've been singing, and the longer you sing it, the more people will RESENT and VERBALLY ABUSE YOU.

Believe me, I UNDERSTAND. There are people on this board WHO DON'T LIKE ME EITHER. And I've found it to be a FOOL'S ERRAND to argue with them. So, I either AVOID or CANCEL them while at the same time staying away from INFLAMMATORY THREADS where people are only TOO EAGER to GO OFF HALF-BAKED. It's an EASY FIX and costs you nothing.

WHY NOT GIVE YOURSELF A BREAK ALREADY?

Again -- and it's the sole reason I've responded here -- your premise is TOTALLY FALLACIOUS. And I think that if you FACE FACTS and/or do SOME RESEARCH, you will REACH THE SAME CONCLUSION.

 

[chaseball]

You need to take up all of this DIRECTLY with ND. NO ONE HERE can relieve you of your AGONY.

You've stated your VIEW AD NAUSEUM, and people here -- NOT ALL, BUT MANY -- have provided you with REASONED, LOGICAL answers as to why ND -- barring some complete abandoment of its EDUCATIONAL MISSION -- has NO INTEREST in what you're proposing. You're BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE. Kind of like somone walking into a TRAPPIST MONASTERY and asking, "WHY DOESN'T ANYONE HERE HAVE MORE TO SAY?"

Why you've chosen this FUTILITY CRUSADE I've no idea. But you're completely ignoring the EVIDENCE as to how ND operates. And, YES, you're the ONLY ONE still beating this by now BEATEN-TO-A-PULP horse. And maybe as you fear -- ON ALL OF PLANET EARTH.

But let me just say it ONE MORE TIME. ND only takes players that they think can CUT IT ACADEMICALLY, and MANY 5-STARS can't. So, a lot of those players you're talking about are actually BEYOND CONSIDERATION. They're not in ND'S ACTUAL POOL.

If YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT coming from me, why don't you talk to the UNIVERSITY ITSELF and see what it tells you. Or to some CURRENT or FORMER PLAYERS. I'm sure they can provide you with a SATISFACTORY ANSWER.

But BANGING AWAY AT THIS RELENTLESSLY HERE just ALIENATES PEOPLE, many of whom have, in addition to a commitment to logic and common sense, A LOYALTY FIXATION which results in them considering you not only FACT-RESISTANT but HERETICAL.

I personally BEAR YOU NO ILL WILL. But this is nothing less than a DIRGE you've been singing, and the longer you sing it, the more people will RESENT and VERBALLY ABUSE YOU.

Believe me, I UNDERSTAND. There are people on this board WHO DON'T LIKE ME EITHER. And I've found it to be a FOOL'S ERRAND to argue with them. So, I either AVOID or CANCEL them while at the same time staying away from INFLAMMATORY THREADS where people are only TOO EAGER to GO OFF HALF-BAKED. It's an EASY FIX and costs you nothing.

WHY NOT GIVE YOURSELF A BREAK ALREADY?

Again -- and it's the sole reason I've responded here -- your premise is TOTALLY FALLACIOUS. And I think that if you FACE FACTS and/or do SOME RESEARCH, you will REACH THE SAME CONCLUSION.

I've already addressed your points I disagree entirely with the premise that there is a correlation between five star talent and academic eligibility / academic proficiency / academic tolerance at Notre Dame.

Notre Dame is built on having the most talented rosters over its 125 plus year history and as recent as the Charlie Weis era were dominating the top prospects on the recruiting trail.

We've had two coaches and one administration change since. Hardly enough of a sample size to come to any conclusions that Notre Dame is suddenly incompatible with the best prospects at football in the country any longer

I believe the issues are systemic not related to academic eligibility but to old s***** philosophy culture and power dynamic as it relates to the players and their growing economic and political power in the sport. Notre Dame is doing everything that they possibly can to stifle progress which is why they have zero in common with the typical five-star prospect with all of the adulation that comes with being one of the best football players in the country at their position

I believe Notre Dame needs better leadership to overcome this cultural and philosophical difference between the institution and the best football players in the country

 

[chaseball]

You need to take up all of this DIRECTLY with ND. NO ONE HERE can relieve you of your AGONY.

You've stated your VIEW AD NAUSEUM, and people here -- NOT ALL, BUT MANY -- have provided you with REASONED, LOGICAL answers as to why ND -- barring some complete abandoment of its EDUCATIONAL MISSION -- has NO INTEREST in what you're proposing. You're BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE. Kind of like somone walking into a TRAPPIST MONASTERY and asking, "WHY DOESN'T ANYONE HERE HAVE MORE TO SAY?"

Why you've chosen this FUTILITY CRUSADE I've no idea. But you're completely ignoring the EVIDENCE as to how ND operates. And, YES, you're the ONLY ONE still beating this by now BEATEN-TO-A-PULP horse. And maybe as you fear -- ON ALL OF PLANET EARTH.

But let me just say it ONE MORE TIME. ND only takes players that they think can CUT IT ACADEMICALLY, and MANY 5-STARS can't. So, a lot of those players you're talking about are actually BEYOND CONSIDERATION. They're not in ND'S ACTUAL POOL.

If YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT coming from me, why don't you talk to the UNIVERSITY ITSELF and see what it tells you. Or to some CURRENT or FORMER PLAYERS. I'm sure they can provide you with a SATISFACTORY ANSWER.

But BANGING AWAY AT THIS RELENTLESSLY HERE just ALIENATES PEOPLE, many of whom have, in addition to a commitment to logic and common sense, A LOYALTY FIXATION which results in them considering you not only FACT-RESISTANT but HERETICAL.

I personally BEAR YOU NO ILL WILL. But this is nothing less than a DIRGE you've been singing, and the longer you sing it, the more people will RESENT and VERBALLY ABUSE YOU.

Believe me, I UNDERSTAND. There are people on this board WHO DON'T LIKE ME EITHER. And I've found it to be a FOOL'S ERRAND to argue with them. So, I either AVOID or CANCEL them while at the same time staying away from INFLAMMATORY THREADS where people are only TOO EAGER to GO OFF HALF-BAKED. It's an EASY FIX and costs you nothing.

WHY NOT GIVE YOURSELF A BREAK ALREADY?

Again -- and it's the sole reason I've responded here -- your premise is TOTALLY FALLACIOUS. And I think that if you FACE FACTS and/or do SOME RESEARCH, you will REACH THE SAME CONCLUSION.

Also I can care less about what the mob on this site says about me (both positive and negative) nobody here knows anything about me on any type of personal level other than my opinion of Notre Dame football

if these were loved ones or people in my social circle who I was known by on a personal level I might give a s*** about their opinion about me but they disagree with my opinion about Notre Dame and don't know how to disagree constructively and intellectually so I just ignore most of the off topic drivel that has zero to do with the topic of Notre Dame football.

 

[ndhuntington]

Also I can care less about what the mob on this site says about me (both positive and negative) nobody here knows anything about me on any type of personal level other than my opinion of Notre Dame football

if these were loved ones or people in my social circle who I was known by on a personal level I might give a s*** about their opinion about me but they disagree with my opinion about Notre Dame and don't know how to disagree constructively and intellectually so I just ignore most of the off topic drivel that has zero to do with the topic of Notre Dame football.

Geez we just played for a national championship what do u want? We beat teams with more talent are we on the same tier as Ohio State for talent no but who is? I'm hoping that alot young black kids who want to play for Marcus Freeman he is likeable, a great leader and your going to get a great education. If we don't move up in 2026-2027 in recruiting I would be shocked.

 

[chaseball]

Geez we just played for a national championship what do u want? We beat teams with more talent are we on the same tier as Ohio State for talent no but who is? I'm hoping that alot young black kids who want to play for Marcus Freeman he is likeable, a great leader and your going to get a great education. If we don't move up in 2026-2027 in recruiting I would be shocked.

I think the old stereotype that five-star kids or top 100 prospects coming out of high school are all retarded orangutans looking for a cash bag above all else needs to die among Notre Dame's fan base. This isn't directed at you specifically btw but speaking to a common theme on the issue of five Star talent and recruiting among the Notre Dame fan base

Most of the best prospects coming out of high school these days our kids who come from middle class families that can afford to travel to all the camps around country and afford private coaching and private tutors at an early age all the way through high school.

Notre Dame should be cleaning up with these kids on the recruiting trail since ND has more to offer than anybody else in the country: resources popularity TV ratings tier 1 academics biggest fan base in the country and on and on and on

Nobody else offers this combination in greater spades than Notre Dame

 

[4-4-3]

I've already addressed your points I disagree entirely with the premise that there is a correlation between five star talent and academic eligibility / academic proficiency / academic tolerance at Notre Dame.

Notre Dame is built on having the most talented rosters over its 125 plus year history and as recent as the Charlie Weis era were dominating the top prospects on the recruiting trail.

We've had two coaches and one administration change since. Hardly enough of a sample size to come to any conclusions that Notre Dame is incompatible with the best prospects at football in the country any longer

Seriously, I would talk to someone MORE KNOWLEDGABLE THAN ME. Someone IN THE PROGRAM. They will tell you that ND has NO INTEREST in becoming OSU or ALABAMA, even though it remains ND's goal to try to win like them with players who must actually ATTEND CLASS.

Yet, just how hard that is to do was once again MADE CLEAR TO ONE AND ALL last night, though we still must give the program credit for having made it to the title game TWICE in 13 years and to the playoffs 4 TIMES during that same period. EVEN SOME TEAMS WITH MULTIPLE YEAR-ON-YEAR 5-STARS HAVEN'T DONE THAT.

Still, ND is not going to drop its ACADEMIC REQUIREMENTS and/or -- I SERIOUSLY DOUBT -- pay $20 million to players in a given year to WIN AN NC.

But again, why CAMPAIGN HERE? Your BEEF is with ND'S AD. Which leads me to ask you -- DO YOU REALLY WANT AN ANSWER or do you simply want to LAMENT the situation to a DISINTERESTED and UNFORGIVING audience? Because as it appears to me, you've got a kind of JEREMIAD going here, having positioned yourself as THE LONE VOICE OF REASON CRYING OUT FROM THE WILDERNESS.

As I asked before, WHY BOTHER and WHY HERE where no one is giving you TRACTION?

 

[4-4-3]

Also I can care less about what the mob on this site says about me (both positive and negative) nobody here knows anything about me on any type of personal level other than my opinion of Notre Dame football

if these were loved ones or people in my social circle who I was known by on a personal level I might give a s*** about their opinion about me but they disagree with my opinion about Notre Dame and don't know how to disagree constructively and intellectually so I just ignore most of the off topic drivel that has zero to do with the topic of Notre Dame football.

Okay, as THEY SAY AT USC, FIGHT ON. You certainly sound GIRDED for more battle.

Me, I'd be headed for one of those jets taking off rom KABUL.

 

[NDinNJ]

We have 0 playoff and ny6 wins in the last 10 years you mentioned. This year we had 3

Last 10 years? Try the last 29 years.

 

[BGI User 756]

ND had an unusual high amount of injuries this season for sure. I included "luck" as one of several other factors that contributed to their performance for a reason (it wasnt ALL luck). But they faced at least two teams on their schedule without their top quarterback playing, they've had a bunch of special teams and turnover related events/points that also don't really correlate well from season to season, and they seemed to get the majority of the close 'breaks' in the games throughout the playoffs.

There just isn't any evidence that ND can hang with the best teams in the country going forward and thats a shame.

This game feels like a game that exposed the program for just how ordinary it is and will continue to be going forward.

ND is sitting on endless bags of money -- will the proper investments be made to bridge the talent gap or are we going to waste a lot of prime years of another really good coach before he too gets fed up and jettisons south bend?

Different game with Mills, Knapp, Morrison, Botelho, Traore and Love at 100%

 

[deadirishpoet]

I think the old stereotype that five-star kids or top 100 prospects coming out of high school are all retarded orangutans looking for a cash bag above all else needs to die among Notre Dame's fan base. This isn't directed at you specifically btw but speaking to a common theme on the issue of five Star talent and recruiting among the Notre Dame fan base

Most of the best prospects coming out of high school these days our kids who come from middle class families that can afford to travel to all the camps around country and afford private coaching and private tutors at an early age all the way through high school.

Notre Dame should be cleaning up with these kids on the recruiting trail since ND has more to offer than anybody else in the country: resources popularity TV ratings tier 1 academics biggest fan base in the country and on and on and on

Nobody else offers this combination in greater spades than Notre Dame

I'm going to venture in waters that are over my head.
First - In today's pay for play environment where these players don't have to attend classes, and for lack of a better word "become an employee" for the university, does ND allow that?

A- If so then paying for the top skill positions players of need should be gone after.
B- If not then there's the issue of admission.

Second - In an odd way the pay for play has leveled out the playing field in a sense and a strong combination of recruit and paying quality players at school like ND doesn't demand braking the bank every year just better development.

Third - Is ND independence a value to the majority of top prospects, or the tomhouggt if being a conference champion more appealing,

Fourth - In your view are the short comings a fault of the AD, or the coaching staff?

I like quite a few of your post, but the F+ thing is quite tedious if you don't want to apply the time with it.

I think Hartman was good but a reach, and kinda thought the same about Leonard, but he proved his worth. The lack of recruiting/picking up stadout Wrs is telling the past two seasons imo, and hope that gets better.