For all you CW fans...

[BGI User 348]

I Thank CW for his efforts but reading this know there are "two" sides to every situation. Parcells was right.........


http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...sas-football-coach-charlie-weis-wants-new-gig

 

[echowaker]

there are some ?

 

[Java65]

I'm neither a Weis fan or hatter. He was not a good HC but the did a lot of things that made it possible for Kelly to be successful.

 

[perseverare]

348

get in the way back machine:

there were many - then some - then a few holdouts that were as zealous that Charlie was the "Man" to return ND to glory. The phrase "if Charlie wants him, then I want him or it's good enough for me" was repeated. Also: there was the oft used, "well until you're at practice like the staff...blah blah" and similar type statements. Zealots of Blind Faith.

But then when reality or truth or the obvious sets in, the next guy will inevitably get the same loyalties; that is until....

"This human behavior of not challenging assumptions reminds me of an experiment psychologists performed years ago. They started with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, they hung a banana on a string with a set of stairs placed under it. Before long, a monkey went to the stairs and started to climb towards the banana. As soon as he started up the stairs, the psychologists sprayed all of the other monkeys with ice cold water. After a while, another monkey made an attempt to obtain the banana. As soon as his foot touched the stairs, all of the other monkeys were sprayed with ice cold water. It's wasn't long before all of the other monkeys would physically prevent any monkey from climbing the stairs. Now, the psychologists shut off the cold water, removed one monkey from the cage and replaced it with a new one. The new monkey saw the banana and started to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attacked him. After another attempt and attack, he discovered that if he tried to climb the stairs, he would be assaulted. Next they removed another of the original five monkeys and replaced it with a new one. The newcomer went to the stairs and was attacked. The previous newcomer took part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, they replaced a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey tried to climb the stairs, he was attacked. The monkeys had no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they were beating any monkey that tried. After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys had ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approached the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Because as far as they know that's the way it's always been around here."

And so it continues (or continuously's).

 

[ZORO50]

I thank Weis for his efforts.
He recruited well and got Notre Dame heading back in the right direction in terms of recruiting.
That being said, I can't except all of his bad mouthing of ND.
ND made him millions of dollars when his agent rocked that dope Kevin White.
Let me repeat that, Kevin White was an absolute moron who made a great escape to Duke to save his career.

Back to Weis, a great head coach isn't buried in his play sheet. A great head isn't losing to UConn, Syracuse.
Also, if Weis was so smart why take a job at Kansas.
I'm so tired of Charlie and his wife talking about "for sale"signs on their lawn and later in the article celebrating with a toast when his yearly check comes in from ND.

More Sour grapes from fatso.
Cry me a river fat man.
You were a loser!
Loser at ND, bigger loser as offensive coordinator at Florida, biggest loser at Kansas. Career done. Bye , bye.

 

[Irishjohn68]

Fat Charlie needs to keep doing what he does best, eating cheeseburgers!

 

[greengael]

I thank Weis for his efforts.
He recruited well and got Notre Dame heading back in the right direction in terms of recruiting.
That being said, I can't except all of his bad mouthing of ND.
ND made him millions of dollars when his agent rocked that dope Kevin White.
Let me repeat that, Kevin White was an absolute moron who made a great escape to Duke to save his career.

Back to Weis, a great head coach isn't buried in his play sheet. A great head isn't losing to UConn, Syracuse.
Also, if Weis was so smart why take a job at Kansas.
I'm so tired of Charlie and his wife talking about "for sale"signs on their lawn and later in the article celebrating with a toast when his yearly check comes in from ND.

More Sour grapes from fatso.
Cry me a river fat man.
You were a loser!
Loser at ND, bigger loser as offensive coordinator at Florida, biggest loser at Kansas. Career done. Bye , bye.

He's a millionaire loser but you're the one on the message board that can't spell "Accept"Jeesh

 

[perseverare]

oh gosh, the splell police are out!

 

[Howard Hall 74]

Weis's first hire was David Cutcliffe. Within months he suffered a serious heart problem and soon left to rest and left the staff during the season. He was going to be the Asst. Head Coach and QB coach. Weis's chief problem, from my view, was putting together a terrible coaching staff. Weis knew little of coaching in the college world and he needed an experienced staff for support and guidance. Cutcliffe, a former HC, would have been a tremendous help in steering him in the right direction and someone Weis could have leaned on in learning how to be a HC in college. It never happened, Weis turned out to be a disaster as a HC and the program suffered because of it. BUT, he was a great recruiter. He's the one who finally brought the 5 * players here and left a number of terrific players for Kelly to build on. Cutcliffe's health problem indirectly really hurt the program - immeasurably.

 

[Irish Duck]

My first year at ND coincided with Gerry Faust's arrival. I think both Faust and Weis are fundamentally good people but they were both overmatched for the requirements for being the head coach at ND. I can certainly understand why people hate Weis as he has the New Jersey arrogance but, being from the East Coast, it never bothered me too much. What bothered me was his inability to adjust to the college game.

I wish him well as he is an ND man and hope that he gets to stay involved, somehow, with the NFL.

 

[greengael]

Some of you guys seem to forget that There wasn't a lineup of "Head Coaching Material" anxious to take on the shell of a team that Willingham had created with no recruiting that was due to come home to roost in '07. Weis for all his shortcomings and there were many stepped up as an alumnus and delivered exciting, competitive, football in '05 and '06.The '05 Pitt game brought me back from a hiatus in my following the Irish. I could not stand watching the lack of effort and execution under Willingham.. That was not Fighting Irish football as I knew it. So Thank you for that Coach Weis.

 

[echowaker]

Weis's first hire was David Cutcliffe. Within months he suffered a serious heart problem and soon left to rest and left the staff during the season. He was going to be the Asst. Head Coach and QB coach. Weis's chief problem, from my view, was putting together a terrible coaching staff. Weis knew little of coaching in the college world and he needed an experienced staff for support and guidance. Cutcliffe, a former HC, would have been a tremendous help in steering him in the right direction and someone Weis could have leaned on in learning how to be a HC in college. It never happened, Weis turned out to be a disaster as a HC and the program suffered because of it. BUT, he was a great recruiter. He's the one who finally brought the 5 * players here and left a number of terrific players for Kelly to build on. Cutcliffe's health problem indirectly really hurt the program - immeasurably.

thats partly right. cutcliffe was a huge loss. that said i think weis biggest downfall (other than his own arrogance) was the fact that he hired a staff of outstanding recruiters who were mediocre position coaches. they got the talent there but did a poor job developing them. charlie was ill prepared for the position. a good x and o's guy but a horrible administrator.

 

[BGI User 348]

perse....getting philosophical?

 

[greengael]

thats partly right. cutcliffe was a huge loss. that said i think weis biggest downfall (other than his own arrogance) was the fact that he hired a staff of outstanding recruiters who were mediocre position coaches. they got the talent there but did a poor job developing them. charlie was ill prepared for the position. a good x and o's guy but a horrible administrator.

The talent tended to be uneven and insufficient in number also. As to arrogance, I think that behavior had been impressed on him by Bill Parcells and Charlie did not appreciate the difference between Personal authority and Positional authority. In other words Charlie wasn't Bill but did not fully appreciate that.

 

[Java65]

Some of you guys seem to forget that There wasn't a lineup of "Head Coaching Material" anxious to take on the shell of a team that Willingham had created with no recruiting that was due to come home to roost in '07. Weis for all his shortcomings and there were many stepped up as an alumnus and delivered exciting, competitive, football in '05 and '06.The '05 Pitt game brought me back from a hiatus in my following the Irish. I could not stand watching the lack of effort and execution under Willingham.. That was not Fighting Irish football as I knew it. So Thank you for that Coach Weis.

Charlie also worked and got a training table. I remember reading stories about how the players would get hardly anything to eat due to arriving late to the dinning hall because of practice. Not to mention there could be no real dietary plan for each player without that training table. That's completely changed all because of Charlie.

Weis also worked with admittance to create a blueprint that allowed him to send out offers much, much earlier. If people remember ND was notorious for being the last school to offer kids and in so many cases it was too late by the time they did.

So while he wasn't a great HC his work in other areas helped the program progress.

 

[greengael]

Additionally he pressured Admissions for the early enrollee program.

 

[HDK]

Charlie also worked and got a training table. I remember reading stories about how the players would get hardly anything to eat due to arriving late to the dinning hall because of practice. Not to mention there could be no real dietary plan for each player without that training table. That's completely changed all because of Charlie.

Weis also worked with admittance to create a blueprint that allowed him to send out offers much, much earlier. If people remember ND was notorious for being the last school to offer kids and in so many cases it was too late by the time they did.

So while he wasn't a great HC his work in other areas helped the program progress.

It is ironic that Weis took the first steps toward better nutrition for the athletes, but I can attest that it was a joke when I was there in the late '70s and worked at the dining hall. Often, football and basketball players came in as dinner was winding down and got stuck with very meager servings.

 

[continually35 irish]

I wish people would stop with the Weis made recruiting easier for those that came after

Willingham was a fu ckn bum ---- a BUM !! ND has the greatest sports legacy in all of american sport -- if you can't sell ND Football YOU EAT SHIT !!!!!!

 

[continually35 irish]

I Thank CW for his efforts but reading this know there are "two" sides to every situation. Parcells was right.........


http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...sas-football-coach-charlie-weis-wants-new-gig

What did Parcells say ?

 

[Irishjohn68]

My first year at ND coincided with Gerry Faust's arrival. I think both Faust and Weis are fundamentally good people but they were both overmatched for the requirements for being the head coach at ND. I can certainly understand why people hate Weis as he has the New Jersey arrogance but, being from the East Coast, it never bothered me too much. What bothered me was his inability to adjust to the college game.

I wish him well as he is an ND man and hope that he gets to stay involved, somehow, with the NFL.

I think you can lump in Davie and Willingham as being over matched at ND.

 

[Irishjohn68]

I wish people would stop with the Weis made recruiting easier for those that came after

Willingham was a fu ckn bum ---- a BUM !! ND is the greatest sports legacy in all of american sport -- if you can't sell ND Football YOU EAT SHIT !!!!!!

Have to agree.

 

[Java65]

I wish people would stop with the Weis made recruiting easier for those that came after

Willingham was a fu ckn bum ---- a BUM !! ND is the greatest sports legacy in all of american sport -- if you can't sell ND Football YOU EAT SHIT !!!!!!

I'm not sure what Ty being a "bum" has to do with Weis and recruiting?

 

[echowaker]

I think you can lump in Davie and Willingham as being over matched at ND.

i would take davie over the other two any day.

 

[mbd11]

Weis needs to get over it and be thankful for all his millions. He's still upset by the For Sale signs in his yard. It's not like the ND administration put them there. It was fans. You shouldn't take a job like ND if you're not willing to take some heat if you fail to win.

 

[theskibro]

If you read the article, one of the most revealing things is Weis' contention that ND turned its back on him and Charlie jr

He pointedly asked Jack S that he wanted to feel welcome and Charlie Jr. wanted to attend ND

Jack said "you are family"

Well Charlie Jr. was not accepted by admissions and Weis apparently never made the effort to come back to campus, maybe because of his son

Weis also alluded that ND offered to let his son in for a donation

Well. The reality is that was the best thing for his son cause in this cruel world, Jr. Would have been subjected to some abuse to be sure

He attended Florida and there he was able to forge his own identity

Weis' wife will not set foot on campus. Mama bear is pissed

Well what Charlie leaves out and fails to understand is that his being an alum and working hard do not eliminate the fact he stunk up the room

Nobody. Nobody wants to be in s room that smells

So Wise joins a club of former coaches who will never be welcomed by fans. That is life. That is ND football

We may recognize some of his accomplishments but they are not enough

Just not enough

 

[Toby Smart]

Who are the club of former coaches that will never be welcome by ND fans?

 

[greengael]

Who are the club of former coaches that will never be welcome by ND fans?

All the dead ones, and some of the living!

 

[Toby Smart]

Which living ones? The dead ones could give a rat's behind about us fans and message board chatter. I'm guessing TW is one former coach that Irish fans wouldn't welcome back to campus. I would. I met him, chatted with him, and he was very cordial and actually took the time to talk to you instead of wham, bam, thank you Ma'am kind of connection. You listening Coach Holtz? CW is another? Why, because he didn't win enough games for fan bragging rights? Because the university agreed to a contract with CW that fans wish they had? I would also welcome CW back. Again, who is this "club of former coaches" who would never be welcomed back by fans? I don't get it.

 

[greengael]

Well realizing there is a problem is the first step..... Toby I'm sorry I have finished dinner which means some wine before and during. I do seem to recall advice I got once which was if you don't get the joke just nod and smile, don't under any circumstances ask to have it explained.

 

[Toby Smart]

You advising me is like me advising Kris Bryant on how to hit a major league curve ball. I want the person who made the comment about fans and former coaches to explain who exactly is not welcome. You are not the person who made the comment, so, I guess I will have to leave this as an unfinished discussion.

 

[Pennick44]

Which living ones? The dead ones could give a rat's behind about us fans and message board chatter. I'm guessing TW is one former coach that Irish fans wouldn't welcome back to campus. I would. I met him, chatted with him, and he was very cordial and actually took the time to talk to you instead of wham, bam, thank you Ma'am kind of connection. You listening Coach Holtz? CW is another? Why, because he didn't win enough games for fan bragging rights? Because the university agreed to a contract with CW that fans wish they had? I would also welcome CW back. Again, who is this "club of former coaches" who would never be welcomed back by fans? I don't get it.

I don't think many Irish fans care that TW was kind to you in your meeting.
He didn't put in the requisite work required to lead the program. Don't think many Irish fans would care if he ever returned to campus.

 

[Irishjohn68]

I doubt Davies would be welcomed back.

 

[Toby Smart]

OK. Now we are getting somewhere. It's about putting in the work, not about running a clean program or wins and losses. So, TW is on the list of banned coaches. Who else?

 

[theskibro]

OK. Now we are getting somewhere. It's about putting in the work, not about running a clean program or wins and losses. So, TW is on the list of banned coaches. Who else?

Toby,

It is not about being in the club that bans them from coming back. By being in the club, they are not welcomed back. In other words, no fan gives a rats a- if they come back and if they did, the small, polite applause would translate to: "why is this guy back here?"

The club includes--
Charlie Weis
Ty Willingham
Boob Davies
Gerry Faust

Now if you disagree, ask yourself if they were introduced at halftime would it be awkward? Would fans scratch their heads?
Would anyone want to see them?

Who is the worst by ranking?

Ty
Weis
Gerry and Boob tied

 

[Toby Smart]

So what did Bob Davie do that he is on the list? Wins and losses or being the unfortunate one to follow Lou Holtz? TW and Bob Davie. That's two. Do I hear three from anybody?

 

[Toby Smart]

Gerry Faust is back on game day all the time and he is very popular with fans. He is one of the biggest ambassadors ND has ever had and continues to be. No way Gerry Faust is on that list. Yes, Coach Faust would be warmly received. So, if you put in the work, ran a clean program, graduated your players, but didn't achieve the win totals that were expected, you have earned yourself a place on the list. I am an Irish fan longer than most on this board. I just don't harbor the resentment of things gone by that happened what seems like years ago. If that was the case, Joe Kuharich and Terry Brennan would be enemy numbers one and two. I think most Irish fans are better than that. I don't agree that fans would never welcome back any of these guys mentioned. If, indeed, that's the way fans feel, then they are not focusing on 2016 and beyond.

 

[twalsh]

Toby,

It is not about being in the club that bans them from coming back. By being in the club, they are not welcomed back. In other words, no fan gives a rats a- if they come back and if they did, the small, polite applause would translate to: "why is this guy back here?"

The club includes--
Charlie Weis
Ty Willingham
Boob Davies
Gerry Faust

Now if you disagree, ask yourself if they were introduced at halftime would it be awkward? Would fans scratch their heads?
Would anyone want to see them?

Who is the worst by ranking?

Ty
Weis
Gerry and Boob tied

No way Faust is on that list. He is 100% respected by anyone and everyone at ND.

 

[cgvr]

I doubt Davies would be welcomed back.

Are you kidding? Even argus was "hopnored" at an ND game.

 

[onlyonenow]

the hatred some here have for CW mirrors CGVR and Kelly. Irrational and idiotic.

Charlie Weis was not a good HC. Guess what? There are a lot like that out there and we have had more than our share in the last 20 years.

Get over it.

Now the POS's that keep calling him Fat Charlie I hope get slowly run over by a bus.

When CW took over ND we were at the lowest level since before Ara. Pure fact. As bad as the last year was under Faust it was worse starting 2005.

And CW for all his faults gave us a fine season. Wonder what would have happened without the Bush Push?

We will never know.

For you morons who cannot accept reality it was said ALL OVER that ND could never again recruit the best. CW proved that wrong. Even late in his tenure he recruited a lot of the team that went to the NC game in 2012

THAT to me is what is most important- our ability to recruit and CW kept that up and that is his greatest accomplishment.

As has been mentioned he got the training table and other things done as well that are important if not so much.

 

[cgvr]

the hatred some here have for CW mirrors CGVR and Kelly. Irrational and idiotic.

Charlie Weis was not a good HC. Guess what? There are a lot like that out there and we have had more than our share in the last 20 years.

Get over it.

Now the POS's that keep calling him Fat Charlie I hope get slowly run over by a bus.

When CW took over ND we were at the lowest level since before Ara. Pure fact. As bad as the last year was under Faust it was worse starting 2005.

And CW for all his faults gave us a fine season. Wonder what would have happened without the Bush Push?

We will never know.

For you morons who cannot accept reality it was said ALL OVER that ND could never again recruit the best. CW proved that wrong. Even late in his tenure he recruited a lot of the team that went to the NC game in 2012

THAT to me is what is most important- our ability to recruit and CW kept that up and that is his greatest accomplishment.

As has been mentioned he got the training table and other things done as well that are important if not so much.

I've often cited the "bush push" game as one that gave me hope we could compete for a title. We played at an incredibly high level that night.

In the aftermath, southern cal had the title in hand until Vince Young authored among if not the single greatest 6 minutes of NC football.

Then everything went down hill for ND and the untalented fatso blew a lap band while inhaling food at a pace that could have fed a few third world countries....

PS I'd pay to see him and Mr Potato Head wrestle.