Flightline vs Secretariat

[raulduke_007]

Flightline 25.56 ft stride length vs Secretariat 24.3 ft stride length. Both have similar average speeds of 37.5 mph. Their peers

 

[Golson5]

Flightline 25.56 ft stride length vs Secretariat 24.3 ft stride length. Both have similar average speeds of 37.5 mph. Their peers

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3 yr vs 4 yr old

3 year old Secretariat beats 4 year old Flighline.

No peer

 

[theskibro]

Clearly you know very little about anything.

Clearly you are a stubborn fool who refuses to recognize what horse racing experts determined - MOW is horse of the century. Not Secretariat

yeah you know that it’s smarter to claim what you don’t know like who is the better horse.

both great. That’s not good enough for you

 

[theskibro]

nurOn their best days; Sec takes MOW down.

THAT is clear.

Go whine somewhere else

You do not know that You fail to comprehend facts and base it on time when anyone who was around MOW has said he never ever was let run. Couple that with weight that secretariat never carried - not even close weight and MOW would destroy your lame ass horse

 

[theskibro]

MOW was not undefeated....He lost to a horse named "Upset" by a neck.....not a nose. Thats a loss. He was in every measure in Secretariat's league....no question about that. No one can guarantee a head to head winner. The only guarantee that exists is Secretariat's Triple Crown record times....they have NO equal, anywhere.

MOW is not undefeated? That’s whT you go with? Anyone who knows the truth of that race vs upset knows it was fixed. No starting gate like today. A rope.
race started while MOW walking away from rope

in a subsequent rematch MOW destroyed Upset

do better

 

[theskibro]

MOW is not undefeated? That’s whT you go with? Anyone who knows the truth of that race vs upset knows it was fixed. No starting gate like today. A rope.
race started while MOW walking away from rope

in a subsequent rematch MOW destroyed Upset

do better

.Thee were several horse racing writers that saw both of them race. Charles Hatton one of them.

ALL SAID Sec was better.

Now as regards some of your cherry picked numbers....

Your claim that tracks were slower back then? There is little empirical evidence that the difference is much at all

I love how you use numbers like stride length which are MEANINGLESS. Or all the records would be held by larger horses which of course is FALSE

You also throw in stud factors which are MEANINGLESS when talking about a racing career.

I have seen a few like you over the years; some even claim Seattle Slew was better; you have just as much cred

One of the reasons that MOW was supposedly never pushed (what about Upset?) was the simple fact that they were not many horses around all that great back then. The Thoroughbred population was very small in comparison to when Big Red the Real One raced.

I mean come on; you try and claim MOW was better because he lived longer. How STUPID is that?

I could go on but I am bored. You are boring to be blunt.

Here is how totally wrong you are. And to disparage me SS not knowledgeable about horse racing shows you no nothing of nearly all racing experts who continue to claim MOW is the best

read and learn….

Horse of the Century: Man o' War vs. Secretariat​

And it's Citation coming up on the outside...​

By Scott Ross • Published April 8, 2013 • Updated on April 18, 2013 at 3:43 pm​

For more than 50 years Man o' War owned the unofficial title of Horse of the Century.

"Then Secretariat happened," says Dorothy Ours, author of "Man o' War - A Legend Like Lightning" and a former historian at the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame. "And the debate started, well this might be the best horse since Man o' War--maybe he's better than Man o' War."

Forty years after that spring of 1973, when Secretariat ran roughshod over the competition, the debate rages on.

Man 'o War won 20 of 21 races, including the 1920 Preakness and Belmont Stakes. He likely would've won the Triple Crown, but his owner didn’t care for the Kentucky Derby's distance or time of year, and so Man 'o War skipped the Derby. It seems odd now, but in 1920 the Triple Crown wasn't really significant, and the Derby was not yet the Crown jewel.

Reading accounts of Man o' War's one loss, in the 1919 Sanford Memorial Stakes, it seems even that race was a testament to his greatness. The defeat came in the era before the use of starting gates. Man o' War suffered a terrible start and fell back almost four lengths at the outset, but still managed to close most of the gap. The aptly named Upset won by a half-length.

"There was scarcely a witness to this race who did not believe after it was all over that Man o' War would have walked home with anything like a fair chance," according to The Times.

Secretariat won all three Triple Crown races in record times that still stand today. But his overall record is somewhat ordinary -- he won 16 of 21 races, finished second three times, third once and fourth once. Those five loses are the biggest knock against his candidacy.

"Every time Secretariat seemed immortal, he would lose," said racing historian Ed Bowen with a laugh.

Even in death, Secretariat was unparalleled, as an autopsy revealed that he had a heart two and a half times the size of a normal horse.

In trying to determine who was "The Horse of the Century," the casual racing fan might reasonably point to Secretariat's Triple Crown records as proof of his superiority. It's not, according to Bowen.

"Time is a very, very tricky way to judge a horse," said Bowen. "The final time of a race is a function of many things, including track conditions, the pace, and how fast the horse is taking off early on."

According to Bowen, a review of the time records at tracks across America would include dozens of no-name horses. Just this year, the American record at a mile and a half on grass has fallen twice with nary a notice in the mainstream press, Bowen said.

Ours notes a variety of X factors that could contribute to the differences in the times posted by Man o' War and Secretariat. Improvements in drainage technology and the practice of hosing down the dirt have made racetracks faster; Man o' War ran on shoes made of steel versus Secretariat's lightweight aluminum; and the Man o' War typically carried extra weight to give his opponents a chance of winning.

In 1999, both Blood Horse magazine and the Associated Press convened panels of experts to vote on who was the best thoroughbred of the past 100 years, and Man o' War came out on top in both polls. But the Blood Horse poll was somewhat controversial, as one voter listed Secretariat 14th on his ballot. ESPN, meanwhile, listed Secretariat as the 35th greatest athlete of the 20th century, with Man o' War sitting at 84.

So maybe it's a coin toss for Horse of the Century? Not quite. Lost in the debate of Man o' War vs. Secretariat is 1948 Triple Crown winner Citation, the sport's first million-dollar winner, and one of only three horses ever to win 16 consecutive major stakes races.

After starting his career with 28 wins in 30 races, Citation's owners set their sights on the million-dollar mark, running him well past his prime. He went 4-8-2 over his last 15 races, taking much of the shine of a brilliant career.

Citation made it to a million, but lost quite a bit of his luster among the general public. But real race fans remember him fondly -- Bowen adds that people who saw Citation said he was better than Man o' War, they "felt there never could have been a better horse."

"If I were in a situation where I had to vote in one of those polls, I would vote for Man o' War, but not with some great convection," said Bowen. "And depending on who I'm having lunch with, I might go Citation second, and other days I might go Secretariat second."

It's likely that horse racing fans, like most people, favor those whom they saw with their own eyes when discussing the greatest of all time -- your father might swear that Mickey Mantle was the greatest Yankee ever, his father will say it was Babe Ruth and you know it's Jeter.

If the pattern holds, this race is Secretariat's to win, but it's not over yet.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Here is how totally wrong you are. And to disparage me SS not knowledgeable about horse racing shows you no nothing of nearly all racing experts who continue to claim MOW is the best

read and learn….

Horse of the Century: Man o' War vs. Secretariat​

And it's Citation coming up on the outside...​

By Scott Ross • Published April 8, 2013 • Updated on April 18, 2013 at 3:43 pm​

For more than 50 years Man o' War owned the unofficial title of Horse of the Century.

"Then Secretariat happened," says Dorothy Ours, author of "Man o' War - A Legend Like Lightning" and a former historian at the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame. "And the debate started, well this might be the best horse since Man o' War--maybe he's better than Man o' War."

Forty years after that spring of 1973, when Secretariat ran roughshod over the competition, the debate rages on.

Man 'o War won 20 of 21 races, including the 1920 Preakness and Belmont Stakes. He likely would've won the Triple Crown, but his owner didn’t care for the Kentucky Derby's distance or time of year, and so Man 'o War skipped the Derby. It seems odd now, but in 1920 the Triple Crown wasn't really significant, and the Derby was not yet the Crown jewel.

Reading accounts of Man o' War's one loss, in the 1919 Sanford Memorial Stakes, it seems even that race was a testament to his greatness. The defeat came in the era before the use of starting gates. Man o' War suffered a terrible start and fell back almost four lengths at the outset, but still managed to close most of the gap. The aptly named Upset won by a half-length.

"There was scarcely a witness to this race who did not believe after it was all over that Man o' War would have walked home with anything like a fair chance," according to The Times.

Secretariat won all three Triple Crown races in record times that still stand today. But his overall record is somewhat ordinary -- he won 16 of 21 races, finished second three times, third once and fourth once. Those five loses are the biggest knock against his candidacy.

"Every time Secretariat seemed immortal, he would lose," said racing historian Ed Bowen with a laugh.

Even in death, Secretariat was unparalleled, as an autopsy revealed that he had a heart two and a half times the size of a normal horse.

In trying to determine who was "The Horse of the Century," the casual racing fan might reasonably point to Secretariat's Triple Crown records as proof of his superiority. It's not, according to Bowen.

"Time is a very, very tricky way to judge a horse," said Bowen. "The final time of a race is a function of many things, including track conditions, the pace, and how fast the horse is taking off early on."

According to Bowen, a review of the time records at tracks across America would include dozens of no-name horses. Just this year, the American record at a mile and a half on grass has fallen twice with nary a notice in the mainstream press, Bowen said.

Ours notes a variety of X factors that could contribute to the differences in the times posted by Man o' War and Secretariat. Improvements in drainage technology and the practice of hosing down the dirt have made racetracks faster; Man o' War ran on shoes made of steel versus Secretariat's lightweight aluminum; and the Man o' War typically carried extra weight to give his opponents a chance of winning.

In 1999, both Blood Horse magazine and the Associated Press convened panels of experts to vote on who was the best thoroughbred of the past 100 years, and Man o' War came out on top in both polls. But the Blood Horse poll was somewhat controversial, as one voter listed Secretariat 14th on his ballot. ESPN, meanwhile, listed Secretariat as the 35th greatest athlete of the 20th century, with Man o' War sitting at 84.

So maybe it's a coin toss for Horse of the Century? Not quite. Lost in the debate of Man o' War vs. Secretariat is 1948 Triple Crown winner Citation, the sport's first million-dollar winner, and one of only three horses ever to win 16 consecutive major stakes races.

After starting his career with 28 wins in 30 races, Citation's owners set their sights on the million-dollar mark, running him well past his prime. He went 4-8-2 over his last 15 races, taking much of the shine of a brilliant career.

Citation made it to a million, but lost quite a bit of his luster among the general public. But real race fans remember him fondly -- Bowen adds that people who saw Citation said he was better than Man o' War, they "felt there never could have been a better horse."

"If I were in a situation where I had to vote in one of those polls, I would vote for Man o' War, but not with some great convection," said Bowen. "And depending on who I'm having lunch with, I might go Citation second, and other days I might go Secretariat second."

It's likely that horse racing fans, like most people, favor those whom they saw with their own eyes when discussing the greatest of all time -- your father might swear that Mickey Mantle was the greatest Yankee ever, his father will say it was Babe Ruth and you know it's Jeter.

If the pattern holds, this race is Secretariat's to win, but it's not over yet.

some people need help. I hope you get some.

As regards this drivel, the classic line in it which says it all

where the author claims even his loss was a testament to his greatnesss

Now if that is not an excuse from a fanboy I never heard one

 

[burmafrd1943]

Secretariat would have beaten any horse ever at that Belmont Stakes

nothing more needs to be said


Though I bet you will keep going as its probably one of the few things in your life that does keep you going

 

[Harpo Marxist]

MOW is not undefeated? That’s whT you go with? Anyone who knows the truth of that race vs upset knows it was fixed. No starting gate like today. A rope.
race started while MOW walking away from rope

in a subsequent rematch MOW destroyed Upset

do better

you didn't address the fact that Secretariat owns the fastest times in each of the Triple Crown races....That alone after 150plus years is quite amazing.

Here is how totally wrong you are. And to disparage me SS not knowledgeable about horse racing shows you no nothing of nearly all racing experts who continue to claim MOW is the best

read and learn….

Horse of the Century: Man o' War vs. Secretariat​

And it's Citation coming up on the outside...​

By Scott Ross • Published April 8, 2013 • Updated on April 18, 2013 at 3:43 pm​

For more than 50 years Man o' War owned the unofficial title of Horse of the Century.

"Then Secretariat happened," says Dorothy Ours, author of "Man o' War - A Legend Like Lightning" and a former historian at the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame. "And the debate started, well this might be the best horse since Man o' War--maybe he's better than Man o' War."

Forty years after that spring of 1973, when Secretariat ran roughshod over the competition, the debate rages on.

Man 'o War won 20 of 21 races, including the 1920 Preakness and Belmont Stakes. He likely would've won the Triple Crown, but his owner didn’t care for the Kentucky Derby's distance or time of year, and so Man 'o War skipped the Derby. It seems odd now, but in 1920 the Triple Crown wasn't really significant, and the Derby was not yet the Crown jewel.

Reading accounts of Man o' War's one loss, in the 1919 Sanford Memorial Stakes, it seems even that race was a testament to his greatness. The defeat came in the era before the use of starting gates. Man o' War suffered a terrible start and fell back almost four lengths at the outset, but still managed to close most of the gap. The aptly named Upset won by a half-length.

"There was scarcely a witness to this race who did not believe after it was all over that Man o' War would have walked home with anything like a fair chance," according to The Times.

Secretariat won all three Triple Crown races in record times that still stand today. But his overall record is somewhat ordinary -- he won 16 of 21 races, finished second three times, third once and fourth once. Those five loses are the biggest knock against his candidacy.

"Every time Secretariat seemed immortal, he would lose," said racing historian Ed Bowen with a laugh.

Even in death, Secretariat was unparalleled, as an autopsy revealed that he had a heart two and a half times the size of a normal horse.

In trying to determine who was "The Horse of the Century," the casual racing fan might reasonably point to Secretariat's Triple Crown records as proof of his superiority. It's not, according to Bowen.

"Time is a very, very tricky way to judge a horse," said Bowen. "The final time of a race is a function of many things, including track conditions, the pace, and how fast the horse is taking off early on."

According to Bowen, a review of the time records at tracks across America would include dozens of no-name horses. Just this year, the American record at a mile and a half on grass has fallen twice with nary a notice in the mainstream press, Bowen said.

Ours notes a variety of X factors that could contribute to the differences in the times posted by Man o' War and Secretariat. Improvements in drainage technology and the practice of hosing down the dirt have made racetracks faster; Man o' War ran on shoes made of steel versus Secretariat's lightweight aluminum; and the Man o' War typically carried extra weight to give his opponents a chance of winning.

In 1999, both Blood Horse magazine and the Associated Press convened panels of experts to vote on who was the best thoroughbred of the past 100 years, and Man o' War came out on top in both polls. But the Blood Horse poll was somewhat controversial, as one voter listed Secretariat 14th on his ballot. ESPN, meanwhile, listed Secretariat as the 35th greatest athlete of the 20th century, with Man o' War sitting at 84.

So maybe it's a coin toss for Horse of the Century? Not quite. Lost in the debate of Man o' War vs. Secretariat is 1948 Triple Crown winner Citation, the sport's first million-dollar winner, and one of only three horses ever to win 16 consecutive major stakes races.

After starting his career with 28 wins in 30 races, Citation's owners set their sights on the million-dollar mark, running him well past his prime. He went 4-8-2 over his last 15 races, taking much of the shine of a brilliant career.

Citation made it to a million, but lost quite a bit of his luster among the general public. But real race fans remember him fondly -- Bowen adds that people who saw Citation said he was better than Man o' War, they "felt there never could have been a better horse."

"If I were in a situation where I had to vote in one of those polls, I would vote for Man o' War, but not with some great convection," said Bowen. "And depending on who I'm having lunch with, I might go Citation second, and other days I might go Secretariat second."

It's likely that horse racing fans, like most people, favor those whom they saw with their own eyes when discussing the greatest of all time -- your father might swear that Mickey Mantle was the greatest Yankee ever, his father will say it was Babe Ruth and you know it's Jeter.

If the pattern holds, this race is Secretariat's to win, but it's not over yet.

Go ahead and quote pundits...they are plenty. Racing though, is about who is the fastest. Secretariat not only owns the Triple Crown times....he is 2 seconds ahead of the all time second place time in the Belmont, 4/10ths faster in the Preakness, and just shy of 6/10ths of a second faster in the Derby (which MOW didn't run). Add to this the fact that MOW isn't even in the Top 10 in fastest times in any of these races.
MOW was clearly the greatest race horse of his era, and most eras. But, unless you want to argue with a stop watch.....Secretariat is the greatest of all time. We will disagree....I am quite comfortable with my position.

 

[theskibro]

Secretariat would have beaten any horse ever at that Belmont Stakes

nothing more needs to be said


Though I bet you will keep going as its probably one of the few things in your life that does keep you going

I’d like to see your smug face when u r wrong about anything. Classic Experts - not u. Not me. Say a horse is best in century and time is not the only indicator but u insist on being wrong

get help