Flightline vs Secretariat
- Thread starter raulduke_007
- Start date
Id pay alot of money to see that hypothetical match up. My gut tells me that Flightline has a similar enlarge heart that Sec. had. Flightline came into the race winning by an ave 12 1/2 lengths. He broke the Breeder's Cup record win by lengths today and didnt even get asked for more by his jockey. Absolute freak horse.
You look at Secretariats splits in the Kentucky Derby. He raced every quarter faster the whole race; I am now aware of any horse ever doing that over a mile and a quarter distance.
But even that pales in comparison to what he did in the Belmont Stakes. Most horse racing historians consider that the greatest race ever run by any horse ever.
But even that pales in comparison to what he did in the Belmont Stakes. Most horse racing historians consider that the greatest race ever run by any horse ever.
And Secretariat did all that as a three year old.
A great tragedy that he never got to race as a four year old like Flightline has
A great tragedy that he never got to race as a four year old like Flightline has
Flightline coasted home as well Prat had him jogging the last half furlough.
the track was also very slow today... go look at the times from the other races. There was a steady 20-30 mph wind blowing. Flightline runs on the same track conditions it was a few years ago when Keenland hosted the Breeder's Cup he goes in 1:53-1:55 range.
Even better… watch the ESPN Sport Century on Secretariat. It’s on YT.
Seen the sports century and other docs on Big Red. He is a legend it goes with out saying. Been capping for 20 years and been a fan since the late 80's. Have gotten to see greats like Zenyatta and Shared Belief live. None of them compare to what Flightline does. Its so effortless and he has never been asked to run his hardest the full distance. He is a freak of nature just like Big Red.
No one is like Flightline.
Track records can be a bit misleading. For example Knicks Go set the mile record at Keenland, Gamine set the 7 furlong record and Authentic set the 1 1/4 record all in the same day.. Not saying these arent good horses but if you went off their Keenland Beyer and Speed figs you lost money in their next races because those times were more a product of how the track was playing than talent. In horse racing its just as important to use your eyes, the trip, the way the track was playing vs raw numbers.
Yeah some horse was like flightline, just better, and that was Big Red
Dont try to put him ahead of Secretariat now, no
I’m glad you said modern racing. No horse compares to Big Red - the real Big Red, Man O War. Not even close.
Man o War
Anyone claiming Secretariat is better than MOW does not grasp how great Man o War was and focused on irrelevant metrics like time over distance. Consider the following-
1- man o war carried a lot of weight.
Man O’War was often handicapped against other horses. By this I mean that even as a 2 year old he was carrying substantially higher weights compared to his competition. It was so dramatic that it was a huge contributing factor in his being retired at the end of his 3 year old season. By the end of his 3 year old year he was carrying as much as 138 lbs - something that is nearly unheard of today
2- Man O’War lived to the age of 30, he died of a heart attack. Secretariat lived to 19 and had to be put down due to laminitis.
3- Lineage: Man O’War was a direct descendant through the sire line of one of the 3 primary foundation stallions of the thorougbred breed: the Godolphin Barb. An unbroken line. Secretariat’s sire line isn’t quite as easy to follow.
4- track conditions faster today
5- man o war was never pushed and let out. Never really whipped. So times are not a measure
6- better nutrition today than in 2019
7- man o war never lost a legit race. His one loss by a nose was due to faulty start when he was facing opposite direction
8- secretariat lost 5 races
9- man o war won a race by 100 lengths
10- man o war was vastly superior in stud
11- man o war had an unreal 28 foot stride to secretariats 25.4
12- both were just about identical in size
given this, both horses were outstanding and no arm chair keyboard clown should diminish either legacy with speciation that cannot be supported
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Let this sink in …..
1- secretariat lost 5 races. I say again. FIVE
2- MOW lost one and it was a fluke or fix. There were no starting gates. They used a rope. MOW was facing the opposite direction when the rope lifted. He started behind by ten lengths. He lost by a nose and passed the winner within 100 yards after finish.
3- don’t ever compare time records because it’s bs. First the tracks improved dramatically with composition for Sectetariat vs the sodden dirt for MOW. Second, MOW carried weight. Huge weight. Secretariat did not
Third- MOW had iron shoes not lightweight aluminum alloy. Forth - MOW never was pushed or whipped for time. Ran naturally fast. Never went after his upper limits
4- the Belmont win. How many lengths? MOW won the Kenilworth Stakes by 100 lengths.
5- Stride. MOW 28.2. Secretariat 25.2
6- stud. MOW unreal breeding record giving rise to countless stakes winners and progeny like war admiral, sea biscuit, etc
7- size. Both very close to each other in size. 16 hands. Same girth.
8- triple crown - MOW held out of derby. Won Preakness n Belmont and the next year dominated the derby winner
it pisses me off when people only know recent history and dismiss the greatest horse of all time. If you learn anything learn this —. Secretariat was a champion. A great horse. Do not ever disparage the once in a hundred year talent of MOW. Know that it is folly to say Secretariat would win. Take the high road and complement both horses and always remember MOW was more popular than Ruth, Dempsey and was voted the best racehorse of the 20th century.
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A few things I’d like to add. Secretariat came 60 years later, being people tend have a short memory, Secretariat clearly benefits there. Also, there is a difference between the greatest vs the fastest.
MOW might be the greatest race horse, but Secretariat is the fastest. There is a difference, I’ve read Secretariat was a much more “moody” horse, he could be hard to control emotionally at times. That is documented by his trainer, Jockey, and even owner. There were several races they had problems just getting him to gate.
MOW was said to be a calm horse that “read the jockeys direction magnificently.” No matter how you dice it MOW and Secratariat we’re both once in a generation horses that captured the imagination of the masses and their legacies live on in lore through dozens of films and books.
.Thee were several horse racing writers that saw both of them race. Charles Hatton one of them.
ALL SAID Sec was better.
Now as regards some of your cherry picked numbers....
Your claim that tracks were slower back then? There is little empirical evidence that the difference is much at all
I love how you use numbers like stride length which are MEANINGLESS. Or all the records would be held by larger horses which of course is FALSE
You also throw in stud factors which are MEANINGLESS when talking about a racing career.
I have seen a few like you over the years; some even claim Seattle Slew was better; you have just as much cred
One of the reasons that MOW was supposedly never pushed (what about Upset?) was the simple fact that they were not many horses around all that great back then. The Thoroughbred population was very small in comparison to when Big Red the Real One raced.
I mean come on; you try and claim MOW was better because he lived longer. How STUPID is that?
I could go on but I am bored. You are boring to be blunt.
Clearly you don’t know horse racing. Horse of the century. Not Secretariat. And 5. Again, 5 losses.
You can stop comparisons right there.
Time n fastest? MOW never pushed. Never. Never tried for best time. And u say what about upset? What’s your point? That MOW was pushed in that race? Yeah, after being left facing the opposite direction n giving up a huge lead at the start. Anyone claiming Secretariat is better is a joke. There is no way of knowing and both horses should be given their due as great. I can accept that despite 5 losses.
Secretariat has a modest grave at Claiborne farm. MOW ‘s grave graces the centerpiece of the Kentucky Horse Park. Only newcomers make absurd claims about Secretariat and disparage MOW. Why don’t we just respect them both?
There is no way of knowing but definitely not a joke saying secretariat was the better horse
If Secretariat has an equal...Its MOW for all the reasons cited. But consider this: The TC has been ran for over 150 years. Only one horse owns the track record in all three races...Secretariat. Add to that, that the second fastest times recorded in each is by a different horse....none named MOW. Focusing on Secretariats losses why developing his potential is weak....Because he learned at different pace against different competition than did MOW. So many variables...To his credit...MOW raced with iron shoes...not aluminum or alloy. His jockey was heavier...etc...But....the fact remains.....only one horse holds all three Triple Crown track records after a century and a half. Thats alot of horses and alot of races....and as records stand....Perfection. I watched him race live on TV as a teenager....and knew I was watching something legendary and timeless. He was one of a kind and magnificent. Also....they made the movie as well as they could depict him.....but finding a horse to even resemble Secretariat proved impossible.
Part of the secretariat mystique/greatness is that he did it at 3. He’s also a turf champion
Time is all you can go buy. You would have to look at the horses secretariat lost too and why. I know the movie says he was sick for a period. I have no idea if it was competition, racing sick or some other issue.
I know he holds every record. That tells me he is the GOAT.
I know he holds every record. That tells me he is the GOAT.
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Again, 5 losses. Inconsistent. MOW zero legit losses. And to those citing Belmont win. I’ll say that over a 100 length win by MOW in Kenilworth may have left secretariat in dust. So stop with the time being the best indicator of greatness.
there was only one Big Red. And it’s not the second knock off
how about just respecting greatness because no one knows.
MOW was not undefeated....He lost to a horse named "Upset" by a neck.....not a nose. Thats a loss. He was in every measure in Secretariat's league....no question about that. No one can guarantee a head to head winner. The only guarantee that exists is Secretariat's Triple Crown record times....they have NO equal, anywhere.
Its interesting to watch fanatics like skibro and Raiduke and others at work.
Look at the time and effort they waist trying to make themselves look like experts in an area they clearly know zip about.
I just repeat what history has said; what the records say. Fastest Horse ever pretty much decides the debate, does it not?
Secretariat holds records that have not been touched in nearly 50 years. MOW holds none that I know of.
Look at the time and effort they waist trying to make themselves look like experts in an area they clearly know zip about.
I just repeat what history has said; what the records say. Fastest Horse ever pretty much decides the debate, does it not?
Secretariat holds records that have not been touched in nearly 50 years. MOW holds none that I know of.
Cool story but you got me confused with someone else. I never once said Flightline was the greatest horse ever I merely stated he was Big Red's peer. Y'all are the ones having a hissy fit that anyone dared to compare another horse to Secretariat. I didnt know this thread had gotten this serious.
Mike Smith has ridden against enough great horses over his lifetime & his opinion carrying more weight than any of ours...
Really think he is saying something profound?
Jockeys always say that the horses they are up against are great, etc.
someone who claims to know so much about horse racing SHOULD know this....
the only hissy fit around here is yours. Read your own posts and think about it if you can
You clearly think MOW is; typical lawyer trick to try and claim that is not what you actually said.
MOW was a great horse, Flightline shows signs. Neither one would beat Secretariat on that June day in 1973
Ive never once commented on MOW in this thread. Again you're confusing me with someone else.
