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Final thoughts on the 2016 class on NSD

D_Master

Posts Like A Champion
Oct 3, 2005
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Its been a long ride watching this class come together . I have posted several class updates over the month on here. Now looking over the class, I know there's some big fish out there still, I give my unprofessional opinion. 1st, this is a very solid core group of guys to build the future with. BUT I think its a class that unless there are several sleepers (think Will Fuller) that arise out of the group, that is only good enough to keep us a "tier 2" team in college football. Now there's nothing wrong w/ being a tier 2 team, but at ND that's not going to satisfy the masses. If D. Robertson commits at some point then ND could have 1 of the best WR corps in the nation in this class. Claypool and McKinley scream high ceiling potential. I think both RBs will be solid contributors in the future. I love what Heistand is putting together on the Oline with these 3 kids adding to an impressive depth chart. So on offense, if we get Robertson, I grade it a solid A, without Robertson, A-/B+.

Defense, its hard to gauge, so many possible sleepers or developmental guys. I love Daelin Hayes' potential, but can he stay healthy. I really like Kareem's potential as well. I think he's a possible star by his senior year. I like the commitment we got today in Jones, I think if he was taller he'd be a solid 4* player, seems like he's got a lot of leadership and intangible qualities about him as well. Give him a few yrs and he could be really solid too. I think Troy Pride could be 1 of the biggest sleepers in this class for ND, there's a reason he shot up the rankings once he got out there and competed in that all star game. A lot of sites think Studsill will see time early, don't know much about him but I do know BK was all over him and really wanted him so i'll defer to his talent evaluation. Julian Love is another kid that will make an impact somewhere, I just don't know where at this point. But watching his tape and listening to how writers talk about him, you can tell he's the type of kid that will find his way on to the field somehow. The rest of the guys there's a lot of potential, but I've listed the guys that I think have the best chance of rising up and becoming household names. Defensively I don't hate the class, I don't see any glaring holes in the class like I used to see w/ weis classes. But I don't love the class either. If Caleb Kelly were to surprise and chose ND, that would go a long way in changing my mind, but for now I'll give the defensive class a B-.

Thoughts?
 
Nothing to make us think Kelly may surprise at this point. Clearly he is "pursuing the academics at OU".

ND filled holes at DB and got some very talented LBs. Will need to load up on DL next year.

No negative surprises and we added Jones so a good day. Not a great day, but a good one.
 
big finish or the big fizzle? we was dupped!

There is no draft, only recruiting.
(I think the BVG defense hurts the defensive recruiting effort)

But 11 yrs ago the analysts said ND lacks the athletes on defense to compete at the nationally relevant level. If nationally relevant means championship contention, then with a few exceptions that is still very true.

The Offense is on the elite level.

This class with the 2 preceeding classes will form the nucleus of the team for K2. We will likely see K2 is going to be very much like K1: 8-10 W's and minor bowls.
 
big finish or the big fizzle? we was dupped!

There is no draft, only recruiting.
(I think the BVG defense hurts the defensive recruiting effort)

But 11 yrs ago the analysts said ND lacks the athletes on defense to compete at the nationally relevant level. If nationally relevant means championship contention, then with a few exceptions that is still very true.

The Offense is on the elite level.

This class with the 2 preceeding classes will form the nucleus of the team for K2. We will likely see K2 is going to be very much like K1: 8-10 W's and minor bowls.
Just copy and paste this on all threads and take a break for the rest of the day.
 
^ but the same result s that the best of the class is on offense.
Again the front 7 lacks impact. 3-4 years of that and you really have to recognize it will show on the field.
 
We willed the holes we needed to fill in this class and have great start already on 17.

Does BVG stay?

Thank you Coach Kelly and staff. For all those who cried about Alford leaving, Denson has out recruited him.
 
big finish or the big fizzle? we was dupped!

There is no draft, only recruiting.
(I think the BVG defense hurts the defensive recruiting effort)

But 11 yrs ago the analysts said ND lacks the athletes on defense to compete at the nationally relevant level. If nationally relevant means championship contention, then with a few exceptions that is still very true.

The Offense is on the elite level.

This class with the 2 preceeding classes will form the nucleus of the team for K2. We will likely see K2 is going to be very much like K1: 8-10 W's and minor bowls.

YOU SUCK PURSE !!
 
Kelly and staff kept this class together .No defections .Good class . It has been posted all over the ND boards about Kelly now turning his attention to the 2017 recruiting class . And that we are in on some top 5- star defensive linemen ,with an early commit from 5- star Robert Beal .
 
NSD is the day Perse looks forward to more than any other. He gets to bring out his sunpumpers clichés and predict mediocrity and minor bowls and dump on Kelly and all of us who are optimistic for what this class represents. It's easy to predict something less than the playoffs and win the I told you so award because winning eleven or twelve games and getting to the playoffs is damn hard, and requires some luck and a largely injury free season. I choose to see all the potential these young men represent and expect Kelly and staff to mold them into a playoff contending team.
 
NSD is the day Perse looks forward to more than any other. He gets to bring out his sunpumpers clichés and predict mediocrity and minor bowls and dump on Kelly and all of us who are optimistic for what this class represents. It's easy to predict something less than the playoffs and win the I told you so award because winning eleven or twelve games and getting to the playoffs is damn hard, and requires some luck and a largely injury free season. I choose to see all the potential these young men represent and expect Kelly and staff to mold them into a playoff contending team.

+1 Telx
 
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We willed the holes we needed to fill in this class and have great start already on 17.

Does BVG stay?

Thank you Coach Kelly and staff. For all those who cried about Alford leaving, Denson has out recruited him.


don't misinterpret the result are not the measure of the effort! NO ONE can feel anything but proud and pleased by the effort made by the recruitors on the staff; including the leader, the head coach. They can only do their best and they did!
 
Was hoping for one commit and thought Kelly or the Robertson would come on board. Obviously neither has announced yet, I don't think, but wasn't a good day in my opinion. Of course we haven't had very many great NSD's either way and the last big time player I can recall announcing was Te'o.

We have to hope some of the new kids, or players currently on the team, are ready to step in and make a difference. Obviously we don't have a program like Bama, they have now gotten the number 1 or 2 classes for like 9 seasons I believe and that is why they have won so much. They can say what they want about Saban, but he isn't winning titles without those classes, though I do think he is one of the better coaches either way.

Anyway go off track... just have to hope the kids play at or above their rankings when recruited. If we have 4 star athletes all over the field playing like 4 or 5 star athletes then we will be fine. Unfortunately it is more likely to have recruits regress which is why you want those difference makers who can step in immediately and play at a high level. Our offensive line is the only spot I see this and that is good, no teams will win without a good o-line. On the other side we have a lot of issues and regardless of whether you like BVG we may look worse next season.

Overall if I were to rank the class on paper it's a B but for what we needed it could be an A-. If some kids surprise, especially on defense, then I don't care about being a top 10 recruiting class because that is what matters. As I said before though, it is always nice to land a couple kids that you know are special and will be playing right away, and at key positions, instead of hoping they can jump in and compete at this level or wonder how long it will take for them to develop. That is truly the difference of landing one of those top 15 recruits from Rivals, you pretty much know you have a freak player that is going to change your program.
 
Was hoping for one commit and thought Kelly or the Robertson would come on board. Obviously neither has announced yet, I don't think, but wasn't a good day in my opinion. Of course we haven't had very many great NSD's either way and the last big time player I can recall announcing was Te'o.

We have to hope some of the new kids, or players currently on the team, are ready to step in and make a difference. Obviously we don't have a program like Bama, they have now gotten the number 1 or 2 classes for like 9 seasons I believe and that is why they have won so much. They can say what they want about Saban, but he isn't winning titles without those classes, though I do think he is one of the better coaches either way.

Anyway go off track... just have to hope the kids play at or above their rankings when recruited. If we have 4 star athletes all over the field playing like 4 or 5 star athletes then we will be fine. Unfortunately it is more likely to have recruits regress which is why you want those difference makers who can step in immediately and play at a high level. Our offensive line is the only spot I see this and that is good, no teams will win without a good o-line. On the other side we have a lot of issues and regardless of whether you like BVG we may look worse next season.

Overall if I were to rank the class on paper it's a B but for what we needed it could be an A-. If some kids surprise, especially on defense, then I don't care about being a top 10 recruiting class because that is what matters. As I said before though, it is always nice to land a couple kids that you know are special and will be playing right away, and at key positions, instead of hoping they can jump in and compete at this level or wonder how long it will take for them to develop. That is truly the difference of landing one of those top 15 recruits from Rivals, you pretty much know you have a freak player that is going to change your program.
Like Aaron Lynch???
 
I don't follow recruiting much. Did ND get a top 25 class? I noticed no one picked up an ND hat today. I thought 2015 was a great year? Didn't show today. There hasn't been a good signing day since Kelly got here.
 
stating a reality is not negative: it is a reality.

To discuss the class objectively you cannot ignore reality.
 
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This class fits a typical Kelly season ranking. #12-15. Can't win a Natty without a defense. Get rid of BVG and get someone in who can actually coach AND recruit.
 
2013 we landed Vanderdoes (i know i know) and last year we got ESB and Dexter Williams, both 4* players and we haven't had a good signing day since BK got here? shut up. You have to understand that the kids that are going to be drawn to ND likely will have decided before signing day. no one gives the staff credit for having no defections all year. how many teams can say that? Any?
 
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D_

the real achilles heel is the D recruiting. K2 will likely resemble K1. The talent rich got even richer and the gap between them and ND grows each signing day. But, because you follow recruiting, you know that.
 
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big finish or the big fizzle? we was dupped!

There is no draft, only recruiting.
(I think the BVG defense hurts the defensive recruiting effort)

But 11 yrs ago the analysts said ND lacks the athletes on defense to compete at the nationally relevant level. If nationally relevant means championship contention, then with a few exceptions that is still very true.

The Offense is on the elite level.

This class with the 2 preceeding classes will form the nucleus of the team for K2. We will likely see K2 is going to be very much like K1: 8-10 W's and minor bowls.
Agreed. BVG is hurting us in more ways than one. Now a recruiting liability as well. Time to stop the bleeding and send him to pasture. Elite D recruits don't want to play in a patsy defense. We had the best LB in CFB and maybe in history of program yet we were still absolutely woeful. Might make a high level LB recruit wonder ... perhaps that point was driven home in the cases of Kelley McCullough and Davis a few dozen times by competing schools. Maybe just maybe... I shudder to think what next yrs D will be without JS. It's a scary thought. With Van Horder at helm we're going to bring in top offensive talent but struggle to nab comparable D talent. That won't get it done. Time to bite the bullet on this bf we create a real hole in D recruiting which will take yrs to climb out of.
 
I've read rumors somewhere that at 1 point the reports that ND had actually taken the lead in Caleb Kelly's recruitment were true, but during Oklahoma's inhome visit their assistants hammered away at BVG and it seemed to work and sway Kelly back to the Sooners. Again, this is all hearsay, but I imagine there's a lot of truth to that actually.
 
Kelly needs to find a new recruiting base and a top of the line linebackers coach. It ain't easy going head to head with Harbaugh, Meyer and Dantonio. A lot of good CFB coaches are out there recruiting. Our season ended with negative momentum. Zaire and Kaiser have to lead us to the promised land next year and the recruiting momentum will pick up again.
 
Agreed. BVG is hurting us in more ways than one. Now a recruiting liability as well. Time to stop the bleeding and send him to pasture. Elite D recruits don't want to play in a patsy defense. We had the best LB in CFB and maybe in history of program yet we were still absolutely woeful. Might make a high level LB recruit wonder ... perhaps that point was driven home in the cases of Kelley McCullough and Davis a few dozen times by competing schools. Maybe just maybe... I shudder to think what next yrs D will be without JS. It's a scary thought. With Van Horder at helm we're going to bring in top offensive talent but struggle to nab comparable D talent. That won't get it done. Time to bite the bullet on this bf we create a real hole in D recruiting which will take yrs to climb out of.

If you think BVG is the reason we miss out on talent then youre a complete tool. The kids that want to come to ND come to ND and that is all there is to it. We can't recruit many players because of academics and the ones that are left over, like a Ben Davis, are already set on where they are going. This site does a good job of trying to sell everyone on recruits coming here but the articles are meaningless unless a kid signs a letter, then I am never convinced.

The defense has lacked talent and when had the talent the players have gotten hurt the past 3 years. Blame BVG all you want, I am not saying he is the greatest coach but he isn't the main reason we lose either, and I actually like his style of blitzing. If he actually had some good DB's and a pass rush we would be tough to beat. Bring in Kirby Smart or whoever you think is "great" and they will not fair much different with the situation at ND. Look at Muschamp, he was supposed to be gold and what happened to him? He failed at Florida and then his defense at Auburn was probably the worst in the SEC!
 
If you think BVG is the reason we miss out on talent then youre a complete tool. The kids that want to come to ND come to ND and that is all there is to it. We can't recruit many players because of academics and the ones that are left over, like a Ben Davis, are already set on where they are going. This site does a good job of trying to sell everyone on recruits coming here but the articles are meaningless unless a kid signs a letter, then I am never convinced.

The defense has lacked talent and when had the talent the players have gotten hurt the past 3 years. Blame BVG all you want, I am not saying he is the greatest coach but he isn't the main reason we lose either, and I actually like his style of blitzing. If he actually had some good DB's and a pass rush we would be tough to beat. Bring in Kirby Smart or whoever you think is "great" and they will not fair much different with the situation at ND. Look at Muschamp, he was supposed to be gold and what happened to him? He failed at Florida and then his defense at Auburn was probably the worst in the SEC!
Your the obvious tool. As exhibited by the contradictions in your post. You state that there is plenty of talent on D so it can't be BVG s fault. Well if there is so much talent on ND s D then why did it suck so bad the last 2 years under BVG. 2 first team All Americans and teams Iike UMASS and Temple roll up #s on his great blitzing D . You got an answer for why? It's not a selling point in recruiting to the recruits ND needs. Hate to debunk your argument but Ben Davis, CK and McCullough had the grades to get into ND. McCullough was accepted by Stanford. Furthermore they're all described as ND type guys. So what gives... we went 0-3. I wait for your response. ... crickets... Kelley says bc ND has no conf. championship to play for its NC or nothing. That sounds nice but you can't be serious with the kind of crap D they've played last 2 yrs. Do you think next yrs D will be better , the same or worse without Day and Smith??? If we can't sell top LBS to come here with the Butkus award winner do you think they'll come to ND without Jayson Smith to be showcased. Word is good Ole Kerry Cooks may have put that bug in Caleb Kelly's ear. All offense and crap D will get u to 8-5 and 9-3 but that won't cut it for a NC . It's NC or bust per the HC but we're still riding with D coordinator who put up the worst # s on D in consecutive seasons in ND football history.
 
Kelly is still all in on BVG - made some excuses during the Schmidt interview about how changing D was the problem .... 3 year plan.
 
Let's face it the disappointments yesterday were in fact manifested by the 2 major sites Mods hyping a "big finish" for a few weeks now. Without those bogus CB's for Kelly and the hype re Davis DRob JMcC and others for the sole purpose of generating subscription interest during promo periods, we would never have had such lofty expectation to then be disappointed in. Sure we would have wanted the DT or DE, but....

If these mods really had no inkling that ND was not truly in the running then, thry they know no mre than the average message board poster. Nothing of the last month makes a fan think that a subscription to these sites would be of any advantage or provide advance insights.
Fool me once shame on me; fool me twice....

Without the final day disappointment, this is a good class; excellent offensively but incomplete for D.
 
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