EG/MZ

[ch_seahawkfan]

HCBK now references EG/MZ as "them, their, they've" ,,, They are a QB Duo...

"New offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach Mike Sanford brings a new approach to the unit, but it's one Kelly feels has been absent recently.


"Some of the fundamentals, which we saw were exposed last year, are the areas that Mike Sanford is really strong at," Kelly said. "There is that piece that was kind of missing that is really being coached, and we're seeing that development of some of the fundamentals that maybe weren't emphasized to the point that I liked and we're seeing that come together in practice."

Kelly said he's seeing less of the careless mistakes that in 2014 plagued Notre Dame's quarterback play (specifically Golson) through one week of spring practice. That's very much a spring practice superlative, one that we can't prove or disprove until the 2015 season kicks off in five and a half months.

Can Golson and/or Zaire turn this catch-all fundamentals improvement into fewer turnovers, better efficiency and enough offense to prop up a playoff push? We'll see. But according to Kelly, those efforts are off to a good start.

"I'm seeing them so much more in tune with the fundamentals of the position and doing the little things that I think now can accelerate their growth because they know how to protect themselves, they've got a great understanding of the concepts," Kelly said. "It's been really good work for both of them because they got three-fourths of it already down.""

EG will not transfer

 

[floridairish]

That sounds great in March, but does it translate to the game? Ball security for a QB = Credibility. EG can seduce anyone with his play making skills, but his reluctance to protect the football reeked of selfishness.

The football belongs to all 22 players, and when the ball is placed in a players hands he needs to be accountable for its security. First and foremost. His play against Arizona State and his seeming inability to understand protections was horrendous.

I bring up Arizona State because ND played those guys in 2013, and even with a completely immobile QB (Rees) ND allowed zero sacks. If you watch that game you will see Tommy Rees constantly identifying blitzes and changing protections. He slid the line right and left picking up all those crazy pressures Graham throws at you. EG looked like a deer in the head lights, just like he did against Michigan in the 2012 he got pulled.

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

agree fl.... but would say unwary due to being so "self conscious" instead of "reeked of selfishness" - The Golson game plan has to include scramble if he has better chance to make a play that way. Being Beaten into a pocket cage did not work for him and HCBK knows that. Exactly why there will be a duo.... MZ will probably start the first few games and EG will be a 2 min.... QB until he proves he is also careful....

 

[SALittleGiant513]

I am not saying Golson will transfer but nothing in that article provides a good reason as to why Golson stays. Golson didn't graduate in December so he would have to wait to transfer until after the spring anyways.

 

[IrishBlooded]

Go go MZ!

 

[Andover1]

Golson definitely needs to take care of the ball better, esepecially when he's running with it. There is no debate about that point
However, I feel fans here have "over-blamed" Golson on the turnover problem with this offense. Hear me out...

1.) The defense we had in 2014 was nothing like the 2012 or 2013 defenses (both Top25 overall units, at least). It was simply a very young, very thin, and eventually VERY injury/suspension riddled defense. It couldn't hold teams down the way the previous years defenses had, so Golson HAD TO PRESS in order to score enough points to keep the team in games. Pressing like that will always make a player more turnover prone, but it was a necessity in 2014

2.) The fumbles are on Golson soley (for the most part, 1-2 were dropped balls when he was hit while throwing, really more on the OL than the QB in those instances) but several of the interceptions were great/perfect throws that his WR simply didn't catch and batted up into the air. That's not a reflection on Golson, but fans simply look at the stats and blame him.
One example of this comes from the ASU game, where a perfectly thrown ball bounces off Robinson's chest and into a defenders arms. How should Golson have prevented that?

Golson's primary focus this off-season needs to be efficiency, pocket presence, carrying the ball correctly, knowing the protections/reads, etc....the finer and more mental points of the QB game. That's the only way he'll be a top level QB, his raw production and highlights aren't enough

That said, Zaire has only played in 1 real game, and he only really looked good for half of the game. He was far less effective in the 2nd half, and Golson was really the architect behind the game winning drive.

For everyone who's ready to switch to Zaire, there are some questions and realities that need to be faced first:
1.) He has only played in 1 game, and the defense really seemed to adjust to him and limit him in the 2nd half
2.) He didn't have to press in the game he played in, due mainly to complete ineptitude by the opposing QB
3.) To have a shot at the playoffs this year, there are going to be games where we'll simply have to outscore opponents. Can Zaire do that? Is he able to fully utilize the STOCK of weapons ND has to do this?
4.) Will Zaire become more turnover prone and/or less effective as he's asked to carry more or the offense and more of the team overall? How about as opposing DC's get more film on him?


The reality that I see here is this...
Golson is much more proven as a QB than Zaire, at this point. Golson has a lot to improve on, but it's tough to hand over the reigns of a team this talented and experienced entirely over to a new QB.




All of this being said, what I'd LOVE to see happen:
1.) Golson is the starter, taking about 75%-80% of the snaps (when healthy and playing well)
2.) Zaire is used to "keep Golson honest", if he's playing recklessly or poorly
3.) Zaire (and the read-option) is used heavily in the Red-Zone and Short Yardage
4.) Zaire is used as a "Change of Pace" against teams that appear to be vulunerable (like LSU)
5.) Zaire gets "Complete experience" in any kind of blowout

I would expect that this would still get Zaire ~150 snaps on the season...which is a number I'd really like to see, with him taking over as the #1 QB in 2016

 

[Andover1]

Also, for what it's worth, everything I've been told or read so far this spring is that Golson is getting the lion's share of the snaps with the 1's right now

It seems to me that as long as he truly comes in to complete and improve 100%...he's likely to be the starter, with Zaire playing a role
He's just makes too much sense for Kelly, for the situation, and for the team (experience level, WR talent, etc.)

I'm really hoping to see a lot from both of them this fall, and most importantly see them push each other in a 100% competition this spring/summer

 

[continuallyirish]

Andover --

Your on the worng forum . your points are too valid and well thought out for this forum

I love the point you made about Golson pressing after the injuries to the defense he knew he had to go to " outscore " them mode . Great post Andover - thank you for taking the time to put this together .

I want to add to your post this point re Golson -- ND's 28 pt run they had vs ASU was a thing of beauty and no one other than Golson woul dbe able to put those kind of numbers up in such short period of time .

Also I agree on the game winning drive v LSU

Standford and FSU game winnin g drives were a thing of beauty as well .

If the defense were healthy we hammer NW and Louisville -- hammer them !!!

Golson has tons of game TONS !!

Thanks again for the post Andover -- hope to see you more often - kudos man !!

Originally posted by Andover1:
Golson definitely needs to take care of the ball better, esepecially when he's running with it. There is no debate about that point
However, I feel fans here have "over-blamed" Golson on the turnover problem with this offense. Hear me out...

1.) The defense we had in 2014 was nothing like the 2012 or 2013 defenses (both Top25 overall units, at least). It was simply a very young, very thin, and eventually VERY injury/suspension riddled defense. It couldn't hold teams down the way the previous years defenses had, so Golson HAD TO PRESS in order to score enough points to keep the team in games. Pressing like that will always make a player more turnover prone, but it was a necessity in 2014

2.) The fumbles are on Golson soley (for the most part, 1-2 were dropped balls when he was hit while throwing, really more on the OL than the QB in those instances) but several of the interceptions were great/perfect throws that his WR simply didn't catch and batted up into the air. That's not a reflection on Golson, but fans simply look at the stats and blame him.
One example of this comes from the ASU game, where a perfectly thrown ball bounces off Robinson's chest and into a defenders arms. How should Golson have prevented that?

Golson's primary focus this off-season needs to be efficiency, pocket presence, carrying the ball correctly, knowing the protections/reads, etc....the finer and more mental points of the QB game. That's the only way he'll be a top level QB, his raw production and highlights aren't enough

That said, Zaire has only played in 1 real game, and he only really looked good for half of the game. He was far less effective in the 2nd half, and Golson was really the architect behind the game winning drive.

For everyone who's ready to switch to Zaire, there are some questions and realities that need to be faced first:
1.) He has only played in 1 game, and the defense really seemed to adjust to him and limit him in the 2nd half
2.) He didn't have to press in the game he played in, due mainly to complete ineptitude by the opposing QB
3.) To have a shot at the playoffs this year, there are going to be games where we'll simply have to outscore opponents. Can Zaire do that? Is he able to fully utilize the STOCK of weapons ND has to do this?
4.) Will Zaire become more turnover prone and/or less effective as he's asked to carry more or the offense and more of the team overall? How about as opposing DC's get more film on him?


The reality that I see here is this...
Golson is much more proven as a QB than Zaire, at this point. Golson has a lot to improve on, but it's tough to hand over the reigns of a team this talented and experienced entirely over to a new QB.




All of this being said, what I'd LOVE to see happen:
1.) Golson is the starter, taking about 75%-80% of the snaps (when healthy and playing well)
2.) Zaire is used to "keep Golson honest", if he's playing recklessly or poorly
3.) Zaire (and the read-option) is used heavily in the Red-Zone and Short Yardage
4.) Zaire is used as a "Change of Pace" against teams that appear to be vulunerable (like LSU)
5.) Zaire gets "Complete experience" in any kind of blowout

I would expect that this would still get Zaire ~150 snaps on the season...which is a number I'd really like to see, with him taking over as the #1 QB in 2016

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

I would go 60% EG / 40% MZ but in some games flip that..... I can't imagine a player with the skill set and determination of MZ not getting to play a lot. As stated in this thread I also don't see ND going big without big from EG.... If they both go all in,, a duo will work great.

 

[MTIrish98]

I love MZ's comments today. Savvy?

 

[Bodizephax]

I hope Malik wins the starting position. Golson has been very careless with the football ever since he was a true frosh. He will continue being a turnover machine this year I am afraid.

 

[Toby Smart]

This is way too funny. Some on this board were saying the exact same thing about Tommy and were salivating for EG. Now they want EG out and MZ in. Whoever is behind MZ will be anointed "the answer to all our problems" as soon as MZ commits a turnover or two.

 

[Andover1]

Originally posted by Bodizephax:

I hope Malik wins the starting position. Golson has been very careless with the football ever since he was a true frosh. He will continue being a turnover machine this year I am afraid.

Golson absolutely had problems with turnovers, but this line of thought is getting exaggerated beyond the facts.

Golson's TD/INT ratio in 2014 was 29/14 (2.1)
In 2012 (the NC year) it was actually worse 12/6 (2.0)
That puts Golson's career ratio at 41/20 (2.05)
(Meaning he isn't throwing more picks now that he was when we we're "an efficient, run oriented, NC Game level offense")

Food for thought...
Clausen Year 1 -- 7 TD, 6 INT
Clausen Year 2 -- 25 TD, 17 INT
Clausen year 3 -- 28 TD, 3 INT

Golson has turned the ball over at a far lower rate than Clausen did through years 1 & 2, the key for him will be finding that consistency/understanding that Clausen was able to develop in year 3
(The same trend was true of Rees as well, just with worse numbers overall)

 

[MTIrish98]

I trust the coaches will make the right call and give the team the best chance to win. I don't really care either way as long as whoever wins the job is clearly the leader of the team on and off the field. With a QB split, it is difficult to attain the leadership piece that is crucial when the game is on the line and you need all 11 guys on the same page.

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

you need about 50 guys on the same page,,, starting with the two QB's

 

[perseverare]

JC had an very poor OL. The only block thrown was a "lookout block". Llok at the combine results to confirm that JC was operating under duress on vitually every snap!

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

Sanford take




On Golson: "With Everett, sometimes he gets so excited when there's a wide open throw. His feet show excitement when you're watching the tape. His body language shows excitement. Basically, just take the offense as it comes. Throw the appropriate throw and don't get so fired up. He gets jacked up when there's a post open. But he has improved a lot with his fundamentals. He had a tendency to bounce around, hop around, as opposed to playing with his cleats in the ground. That's improved."

On Zaire: "Malik, from a fundamental standpoint, he has a tendency to play with a really wide base. I don't want a very narrow base, but he's done a great job in the last week of really tightening that base up. It makes him a lot more accurate passer. When he gets really wide, he has a tendency to not be able to get through his throws with his back hip. We're really working on tightening his base, and he's taken to it. He self-corrects during practice, which is great."

 

[floridairish]

Golson fumbled a ball against Syracuse trying to execute a spike at the end of the 1st half and he was fumbling the football all over the field at the very end of the Navy game.

He simply did not pay attention to ball security in 2014 and no amount excuses or rationalizations will change that fact.

ND was comfortably ahead of Syracuse and Golson's ball security was abhorrent. As was his ball security versus UNC, Navy, ASU, Louisville, NW and USC. "Pressing" is just an excuse and ND does not have the schedule, depth of talent or luxury of a great defense to make QB ball handling excuses. He was fired for a reason and if he is given yet another opportunity at being the starting QB for ND , his leash should be very short and very tight. And if it is I have little doubt the ball will be on the ground and MZ will be leading the offense.

 

[continuallyirish]

Originally posted by floridairish:
Golson fumbled a ball against Syracuse trying to execute a spike at the end of the 1st half and he was fumbling the football all over the field at the very end of the Navy game.

He simply did not pay attention to ball security in 2014 and no amount excuses or rationalizations will change that fact.

ND was comfortably ahead of Syracuse and Golson's ball security was abhorrent. As was his ball security versus UNC, Navy, ASU, Louisville, NW and USC. "Pressing" is just an excuse and ND does not have the schedule, depth of talent or luxury of a great defense to make QB ball handling excuses. He was fired for a reason and if he is given yet another opportunity at being the starting QB for ND , his leash should be very short and very tight. And if it is I have little doubt the ball will be on the ground and MZ will be leading the offense.

Who's rationalizing it and who is excusing it ?

Who made an excuse for EG vs USC ?

see cheerios - see piss

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

"if he is given yet another opportunity at being the starting QB for ND , his leash should be very short and very tight. And if it is I have little doubt the ball will be on the ground and MZ will be leading the offense."

So Let It Be Written So Let It Be Done

 

[tkirish]

Golson has the most experience. He is a very good QB. Maybe not quite the runner like Zaire, but he is very good. If he corrects the ball security issues, there should be no reason why he shouldn't start. Zaire can come in in certain spots and help develop some much needed depth. Also Zaire has another year where he will be the starting QB if he isn't this year. We will see how this plays out but I'm pulling for Golson to win the job. I think for the overall team he has been there the longest, paid his dues and is trying to do the things he needs to help the team win. Sure he was pouting. However, the fact that he is still competing, knowing he could lose his starting job says a lot about his character. Senior leadership cannot be underestimated. He knows what it takes to win. Hopefully next September he will begin his final year as the stater and lead the Irish to the promised land. The talent is there to do it. I think it can be done.

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

It is looking like EG can win back the start. MZ is great too and both should play especially since defense will have more trouble with a game plan for both.

 

[floridairish]

More tears from the Golson fan boy club. Grow up and dry your eyes. My critique was spot on and never personal. The guy was an absolute ball handling disaster and that's why he finally lost his job.

To fumble a ball in a situation where ND only needed a spike (Syracuse) and to take a knee (Navy) tells me someone is either not paying attention or doesn't give a crap.

The holes Golson's ball handling put ND into against UNC, ASU and Louisville is inexcusable. If ND wants to be a playoff contender they have to go 11-1 or 12-0. And you're NEVER going to 11-1 or 12-0 if your QB turns the ball over needlessly. Championship QB play is about making the right play and avoiding the bad play. Not a spectacular play followed by a turnover.That's 7-5 football.

 

[onlyonenow]

florida, you would actually have some credibility if you gave Golson props for some of his games instead of ranting and raving and cherry picking your games.

Golson did turn the ball over way too much and too many of them were careless.

BUT he also made some great plays and had some fine games.

And I do believe that once our D collapsed he let the pressure of having to outscore the opponents get to him.

He cannot do those things again and as a experienced QB he should frankly have a fairly short leash this year.

On the other hand MZ is all but unproven and it would be a serious gamble to make him the starter.

 

[tkirish]

I think we all agree you can't turn the ball over again and again and expect to win. However, if he corrects that issue, and I think he can, he should be the starter. His experience and knowledge of the offense cannot be glossed over. If on the other hand his ball security issues continues into the first two games, then I'm all for making the change. The coaches are the only ones who see what is going on at practice. We will just have to wait and see.

 

[perseverare]

w/o the turnovers he best fits the offensive plan that best utilizes all that talent around him. But ?

 

[floridairish]

I do not rant and making a great play after making a horrible turnover does not impress me. It's amusing some poster made mention of the 28 point outburst at ASU as being a "thing of beauty". Well what do you call the deluge of turnovers that created the 35-3 deficit in the first place?

To go 11-1 or 12-0 you have to be consistent and do YOUR job. Unless Golson wants to put on a helmet and play corner back, he has no control over what the defense is doing. The defense was struggling so I was trying to make a play explanation is unacceptable and just an excuse.

Golson needs to be an accountable player and this home run or strike out stuff isn't cutting the mustard. Check into the right protection, check out of bad plays, make the correct read, throw the ball on time and accurately. And of course protect the football!!! Tuck the ball in traffic, take a sack and throw it away if necessary.

ND does not need GREAT QB play, ND needs consistent QB play.

 

[continuallyirish]

Originally posted by onlyonenow:

florida, you would actually have some credibility if you gave Golson props for some of his games instead of ranting and raving and cherry picking your games.

Golson did turn the ball over way too much and too many of them were careless.

BUT he also made some great plays and had some fine games.

And I do believe that once our D collapsed he let the pressure of having to outscore the opponents get to him.

He cannot do those things again and as a experienced QB he should frankly have a fairly short leash this year.

On the other hand MZ is all but unproven and it would be a serious gamble to make him the starter.

If the defense were healthy we kick NW - Louisville and ASU's ass .

Fl Irish -- how old are you -- if over 20 grow up

 

[mbd11]

Golson was extremely sloppy with the ball at times last year. If he starts, and starts doing that stuff again, he should have a much shorter leash this time around.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[floridairish]

To put a correlation between the health of the defense and QB ball security is monumentally absurd. For starters the defense was healthy versus Syracuse and UNC and those are the games Golson started his turnover fest.

Once again it's not personal it's just business. ND can't get where they want to go with erratic QB play. And all the kiddie fan boy love and Golson excuse making is not going to change that fact. Zaire would be my guy until he wasn't my guy. Then I'd look to the future.