That's kind of embarrassing that a BOT member would publicly throw up his hands and give up like that.
Didn't ND used to be a big boy themselves?
Didn't ND used to be a big boy themselves?
Did BOT member West really say that ND can't compete with the big boys?
- Thread starter Johnny Fairplay
- Start date
Alabama is the lone Big Boy in college football. I think ND can compete with the Clemsons & FSUs & Oklahomas etc of the next ring.
Right now there is Alabama clearly a step ahead of everyone else then you have about 6-8 that are all about the same then comes the next tier of 6-8 and we are in that bunch. The top 8 are the ones that you pretty much expect to see in the mix every year. Then the next group are ones that every couple of years or so can be in the mix depending on several things like injuries and such. The top group have depth which is the key difference. Alabama has more depth then anyone else which is why they are king of the mountain year to year even if they do not win it all that particular year.
ND has not won a major bowl in almost 25 years. That is down right rmbarrassing.
BOT--The problem is easily fixable if you want to compete with the big dogs. Go back to the mentality of the mid forties when Notre Dame hungered for victories like their life depends on it. You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth. ND has already given it's soul to liberalism so why not pursue excellence on the field. I have returned to my 1964 mentality and I expect ND to win. I could care less about ND's academic reputation or their other sports. I'm a subway football fan and I want victories on Saturdays in the fall and no excuses. You've gotta want it with all your being like Alabama and it's fans----and that's the stinking truth.
Ask current and former players want they want. Do they favor reduced academics for the sake of football and basketball? Don't leave out the gals in this discussion. Muffet would like to chime in I'm sure. Even Frank Leahy saw the writing on the wall when the administration reduced his scholarship numbers from 32 to 18 in 1947. It's going to be a different animal at ND when it comes to athletics and you either deal with it or be miserable every season. The administration will not change so non medical red shirts and gray shirts and JC players ain't happening in South Bend.
I find a lot of things in college football that must be embarrassing - this is not on my list. Do you follow what is going on at some of these institutions?
Yep, ND was 2-7 in 63 followed by a huge year in 64. And, I remember those years. However, the difference would be the coaching situation. No comparison between Ara and Kelly. But, I am hoping 2017 will be like 64.
Personally, I'd like to see us stop pretending we care about academics with football. We clearly don't care, because we're admitting tons of kids who have no business being in classes with regular ND students.
But we're still hamstringing ourselves by pretending.
Time to throw out the pretend and operate without restraint, similar to Ohio State, Alabama, and Clemson.
Now, if we think that keeping some pieces of the "40 Year Option" are a strong point for us and out recruiting pitch....then great. Choose to keep those as an advantage.
And I don't see why the opinion of non-football playing athletes would matter, at all....at least beyond that of every other alumn.
The opinion of former and current players matter. They are the ones who have/had to juggle classes with full time football and all the blood, sweat, and breaks that came with it. They are the ones who did it so their opinions matter. Those who never have do not understand what former and current players have experienced. I have heard two Irish legends in Reggie Brooks and Allen Pinkett both say that academics should not be lowered for Irish football players. When they speak, I listen.
First of all, I said "Other than football players"
Also, not sure that the "they played, therefore we should let them decide the future of the program" claim makes any logic, at all.
There is a reason that NFL franchises don't just hire former players/stars as GM's
It doesn't matter how you feel about it. It's just my opinion not really up for debate. Even a law student should understand that.
It's almost like this is some kind of message board, where opinions are meant to be questioned and discussed
But a topic that complicated is probably completely beyond your comprehension
So please, continue on in your myopic ignorance and stupidity
Academics were lower under Holtz so Brooks and. Pinkett are wrong It started with Davies he complained constantly about the restrictions
It's likely that many of Lou's recruits could not get into ND today.
Relax man. It's just my humble opinion. I'm not the Pope and I didn't declare it an article of faith. I never said that former and current players should set policy as you claim. I said that their opinion matters. If I want to discuss surgery, I get the views of a surgeon. If I want to talk plumbing, I talk to a plumber and get his take on the situation. If I want to get a grasp of academics and playing football at ND, I talk to a current or former player.They have been there and done that. I certainly wouldn't hold my breath on what you have to say on the matter. As I said, it's all academic (pun) because the administration will not relax anything for the love of the game. Even a law student who knows a little something should have that figured out.
In all due respect, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. What has Lou have to do with this? We are discussing the ND football program in the here and now, 2017. I'm also not sure what Reggie and Allen are wrong about. They said that academics should not be lowered for the sake of the football program. It's their opinion as two former players. They never said one thing about the Lou era in the context of academics during the interviews that I heard.
"We lost to Clemson at their place by 2 a few years ago"
ND lost to a Clemson team by 2 points in 2015 -- in 2016 -- ND would have been blown out by Clemson.
"and we can't compete with a team that they beat 31-0"
Yes -- that is true -- Remember -- OSU manhandled ND in the Fiesta Bowl that year in 2015 -- in 21016, OSU would have blown out ND even worse.
Reggie Brooks and Allen.Pinkett. have said they don't want academics lowered . But Brooks played under Holtz at a time when ND had lower academics. It was.under Davie that I believe they started cracking down. I could be wrong but I think some of these former players are not being honest. Still I'm not buying the fact that lowering academics for football players some how lowers the value of an ND degree.
It's hysterical that the guy who's actually trying to make personally cutting remarks is falling back on the "relax" line.
But again, I suppose that's what we can expect from someone who's just in over their head.
Your opinion on basically everything has been debunked as nothing more than foolish and uninformed....but they're usually pretty comical, so please keep sharing.
For example, you realize the logic you expressed in your own post means that you should be seeking out the advice of people that run Athletic Departments....right?
Hopefully, some day, you'll get it
Simply because they have no experience with the program "here and now" and have no idea what the academic requirements are, nor if they or others that they cared about would have been admitted.
The only experience they have is with the requirements as the were under Holtz, which is obviously why he's being discussed
That makes their opinions on the matter, as you presented them, uninformed and likely wrong.
Pretty simply stuff here.
Just depends on your time frame. Last year Clemson was obviously better. Since Kelly has been at ND, I think OSU might get the nod.
Let's talk turkey guys. When you look at strength and conditioning right now, it looks like Coach Kelly hit a grand slam home run. You look at the guys this spring and they look like well condition players, and that will pay big dividends in the fourth quarter this fall. The offensive side of the ball is absolutely loaded with talent. This year you add experience with talent and they could be very explosive. I wouldn't expect a Coach Polian coached ST to repeat the mess we witness last year. He spends his day thinking and molding our Special Teams--priceless! How will the defense play next season is the million dollar question. Can Coach Elston develop some of those three star players into four star players who make plays; we'll see fans. Can the second and third level players make the big stops and tackles? Coach Elko's defense will have a lot to say on how this season plays out.
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Allen never played under Holtz so he has no frame of reference what the program was like when Lou was here other than what he has been told. Reggie's experience goes beyond the Lou era as he has an administration job with the university and also is part of the football post game show. Both Irish greats are highly connected with the current state of affairs and their opinions are more educated than yours will ever be. I would love to be there when you confront either player and tell them they are not qualified to make an educated opinion on Irish football and academics. A snowflake confronts two greats who have actually done it. Too perfect.
You truly are a moron.
Neither of them have managed ND's athletic department, especially with regard to admission standards and academic course loads.
So while I'd certainly be interested in listening to their opinion, I'd obviously have no problem with disgreeing or challenging them on some areas, especially if what they're saying was relying on information they don't actually have (due to a large number of factors, including the amount of time since they've been involved with the program)
But based on your incorrect use of the comment "snowflake", I'm guess you're simply too old and stupid to understand how conversations and thought processes like these work.
You're not holding up too well in this conversation either. I'd quite while your terrible, pathetically behind
And you want to be a lawyer. Great courtroom demeanor. A snowflake is a person who has tantrums when challenged. You are the very definition. I respect the opinion of former and current players over what you have to say any day, anytime. I'm not sure why I have residence in your psyche but it's apparent I do. Both players are always around campus. Feel free to stop by and let them know how you feel.
I think at full peak 2015 we could
i think it's pretty safe to say stopping the run will be our biggest weakness. Watch Clemson Wake game from last year. Watson wasn't all that, but the running game absolutely destroyed wake. Big holes up the middle. If we want a playoff run Nyles and Martini need to be absolute beasts
It's great watching you flounder in your attempts to form a coherent argument, and instead resort to personal attacks. It's even richer that you think you've upset me in someway, when all you've done is amuse me with your ignorance and stupidity.
Let me know if you every manage to comprehend enough to hold your own in a basic conversation.
(or if you ever figure out how the basic functions of this site work, like "quote", if you're responding directly to someone's posts)
After consulting with my advisers and chief of staff, a hard decision had to be made. I regret to inform you that the swamp had to be drained, therefore, you have been given the pink slip in all future topics that I so ably contribute to. Life is way too short to waste it on someone like you.
