Defensive Set I'd Like to See A LOT of this Weekend

[TheDecker]

Pitt is a ball control, power-run oriented team. They have a game-manager at QB, who is limited physically but is efficient and a good decision maker. They have 2 TE who are both solid in all phases, but aren't anything amazing........and they have 1 "game breaking" WR

To me, this team is what people stereotype old Big10 offenses to be.....plus a dynamic WR

The way I'd like to see ND counter that, at least at some points in the game is with this type of defensive alignment

DE - Rochell
DT - Tillery
NT - Cage
DE - Day

WLB - Jaylon
MLB - Morgan
SLB - Martini

CB - Luke
CB - Russell
FS - Redfield
SS - Farley (1st Half) / Shumate (2nd Half)

I'd slide whoever is playing into the box, in the middle of the field. Their primary assignments would be against the interior run game and the TE's in the middle of the field.

I'd have Redfield reasonably removed from the LOS, slanted somewhat to whatever side of the field Boyd is lined up on, to provide extra help on him and keep him from being able to break anything deep

Up front, I'd want the "biggest" group that we can come up with, to take on the 6'2" 235lbs RB and multiple TE sets......basically discouraging the over-use of the interior/power run game

Their QB doesn't go downfield a lot anyways, and does a lot of "quick/short" passes, so I'm less concerned with getting a great speed rush off the edge as I would be just trying to attack the pocked and make him uncomfortable

As long as we're limiting the interior run game and slanting help towards Boyd, I don't think Pitt has the QB or 'Other Weapons' to beat our defense






Thoughts?

 

[FightingIrish44]

If Schmidt wasn't removed from the game when Temple was using a TE and a FB, then he won't be off the field against Pitt.

Size isn't everything on defense. We'll be running the same stuff we have all year.

 

[Granite45]

Pitt is a ball control, power-run oriented team. They have a game-manager at QB, who is limited physically but is efficient and a good decision maker.

Don't so easily discount the QB; his stats are similar to Golson's although with probably an easier schedule for Pitt than Florida State.

 

[BGI User 1596]

Schmidt won't come off unless he is injured. What about Grace - he seems to be moving a lot better yet still can't find the field.

 

[TheDecker]

If Schmidt wasn't removed from the game when Temple was using a TE and a FB, then he won't be off the field against Pitt.

Size isn't everything on defense. We'll be running the same stuff we have all year.

Temple also a a 5'9" 190lbs RB......as opposed to the 6'2" 235lbs RB that Pitt uses

Schmidt has gotten absolutely abused by bigger backs that can simply break and bounce off his tackles, as well as "elite athletes" who have made him completely wiff

He's phenomenal at lining up our defense, but there is a reason that he leads the team in missed tackles (by far)

I'd like to see more talented players start to get some burn at MLB, since it's not clear he's not able to elevate his level of play

 

[TheDecker]

Schmidt won't come off unless he is injured. What about Grace - he seems to be moving a lot better yet still can't find the field.

I'm not saying "Don't Play Schmidt at all"

I'm saying "Play some other MLB's too", especially since the huge RB and multiple TEs could present Schmidt with some extra problems

 

[TheDecker]

Don't so easily discount the QB; his stats are similar to Golson's although with probably an easier schedule for Pitt than Florida State.

The 2 games this year that he's attempted 30+ passes..........Pitt is 0-2

That's the player I would make beat you, and try to make him do it by going to WRs other than Boyd

 

[FightingIrish44]

Temple also a a 5'9" 190lbs RB......as opposed to the 6'2" 235lbs RB that Pitt uses

Schmidt has gotten absolutely abused by bigger backs that can simply break and bounce off his tackles, as well as "elite athletes" who have made him completely wiff

He's phenomenal at lining up our defense, but there is a reason that he leads the team in missed tackles (by far)

I'd like to see more talented players start to get some burn at MLB, since it's not clear he's not able to elevate his level of play

Is Morgan good enough to execute the scheme? We don't know that. There's a whole lot more to it than simply putting a bigger LB on the field to meet a bigger running back.

 

[TheDecker]

Is Morgan good enough to execute the scheme? We don't know that. There's a whole lot more to it than simply putting a bigger LB on the field to meet a bigger running back.

We know he's big enough, fast enough, athletic enough, etc......because he has a physical advantage in every category, over Schmidt

Really the only thing we don't know is "Does he understand the defense enough to get some PT"

With an opponent who runs a fairly limited offense and an offense that fits really well into have a bigger, stronger, and more "down-hill explosive" player MLB.....we need to be able to have him understand enough to get him on the field

Schmidt has simply missed too many tackles (or had too many of his broken) to be able to stay on the field with impunity

 

[FightingIrish44]

We know he's big enough, fast enough, athletic enough, etc......because he has a physical advantage in every category, over Schmidt

Really the only thing we don't know is "Does he understand the defense enough to get some PT"

With an opponent who runs a fairly limited offense and an offense that fits really well into have a bigger, stronger, and more "down-hill explosive" player MLB.....we need to be able to have him understand enough to get him on the field

Schmidt has simply missed too many tackles (or had too many of his broken) to be able to stay on the field with impunity

I respect everything you're saying and agree with a lot of it. Your second paragraph is the key.

I'm watching Pitt right now and have seen them run some zone read although their QB isn't a huge threat. All of those physical improvements aren't going to mean a whole lot if Morgan isn't actually in position to get to the ballcarrier. Even still, it isn't always the LB's job to run as fast as he can to the ballcarrier.

Is Morgan a better tackler? Possibly, but we really don't know. He's just bigger and presumably stronger. Is be better at playing the MLB than Schmidt? We definitely don't know.

It doesn't take a whole lot for a crease to open up and allow a huge gain to happen. Temple's two second half scoring drives were due in large part to a couple of mental errors. These breakdowns had nothing to do with athletic ability.

You can say what you want about Schmidt's physical limitations and his tackling ability, but I don't recall any serious mental breakdowns from him. Are you willing to take that chance? I don't feel it's necessary and am willing to trust that the coaches are playing the right guy.

 

[TheDecker]

I respect everything you're saying and agree with a lot of it. Your second paragraph is the key.

I'm watching Pitt right now and have seen them run some zone read although their QB isn't a huge threat. All of those physical improvements aren't going to mean a whole lot if Morgan isn't actually in position to get to the ballcarrier. Even still, it isn't always the LB's job to run as fast as he can to the ballcarrier.

Is Morgan a better tackler? Possibly, but we really don't know. He's just bigger and presumably stronger. Is be better at playing the MLB than Schmidt? We definitely don't know.

It doesn't take a whole lot for a crease to open up and allow a huge gain to happen. Temple's two second half scoring drives were due in large part to a couple of mental errors. These breakdowns had nothing to do with athletic ability.

You can say what you want about Schmidt's physical limitations and his tackling ability, but I don't recall any serious mental breakdowns from him. Are you willing to take that chance? I don't feel it's necessary and am willing to trust that the coaches are playing the right guy.

That's all well and good, and I agree we "should trust the coaches"

But history has taught us that sometimes the guy waiting in the wings just needs the chance to shine in the game and when he gets it, he really does shine
Prosise this year would be an example (#2/#3 RB in the Spring and Fall but exploded when forced into the lineup)

I don't see a lot of mental error from Schmidt, but I do see him allow a lot of big plays that should have gone for little to nothing, because the opponent simply breaks through his tackle and goes for 30+ when it could have been a loss of 2

These kinds of things are a balance

Schmidt should play, he should probably even start

But I'd like to see players who can actually make the tackle (not just get to the right spot and then miss or get pushed over) get some burn, especially against a fairly simple offense

Pitts offense isn't "absolutely no frills"...but no offense today is.
There offense is about as straight forward as you can see in a game against a P5 opponent, and imo it's exactly the kind of game where you find the younger, but more talented and better "scheme fit", player a couple of series

 

[FightingIrish44]

An offense can run any scheme out of any personnel.

I apprecitate the discussion, and I understand the points you're making. They're all valid, but I don't think we'll see Morgan out there unless Schmidt is playing poorly.

 

[TheDecker]

An offense can run any scheme out of any personnel.

I apprecitate the discussion, and I understand the points you're making. They're all valid, but I don't think we'll see Morgan out there unless Schmidt is playing poorly.

Not so

You can't run Baylor's offense with Pitt's personnel, nor Navy's, nor Texas Tech's, nor USC's, etc.

They can do some things, but their offense is limited, both by personnel and by their own design (they want to be a limited, straight ahead, offense)

And my issue is, Schmidt is playing poorly
If Schmidt was playing well, I wouldn't want to see him taken off the field....I love his story and I really liked his play in 2014

My issue with Schmidt is he's playing poorly and it's negatively impacting the defense (significantly) and I'd like to see how others could do in his stead, especially against an opponent where they would fit well

 

[TheDecker]

To be fair, based on Kelly's actions so far, I don't think Morgan is likely going to play very much either

But I'd like to be wrong about that

 

[FightingIrish44]

You absolutely can run whatever one feels like running. If Navy wanted to put their two halfbacks as slot receivers, and run zone read and a bunch of passing concepts, they could do it. Would it be wise? No, because they need to focus on what they do and maximize their potential.

A team like Pitt though can do whatever they want with their personnel. They run power formation sets as well as spread sets and zone read. It doesn't matter if they have two tight ends in the game. They can still align them out wide and be in a spread formation.

My issue is that we really don't know how well Morgan will play aside from his physical attributes. I don't think its worth finding out just because Pitt has a big RB. If Schmidt is playing poorly enough to warrant being pulled, then I'm confident the coaches will do so.

I don't think Schmidt played too bad vs Temple.

 

[kellys heroes 35]

Schmidt is 15-2 while starting and was voted team MVP last yr

Kelly stated last week that he is not coming off the field

ND imploded after he got hurt

Not sure what all the negative stuff is about Joe . '


Lastly we shut down Clemson and USC in the second half with him quarterbacking the operation

 

[IRISHJD98]

Is Morgan good enough to execute the scheme? We don't know that. There's a whole lot more to it than simply putting a bigger LB on the field to meet a bigger running back.

I agree. But I still wouldn't mind seeing a little more of Morgan - or somebody else - just because Schmidt is out of eligibility this year and I'm not sure we can expect Smith to stick around.

 

[TheDecker]

Schmidt is 15-2 while starting and was voted team MVP last yr

Kelly stated last week that he is not coming off the field

ND imploded after he got hurt

Not sure what all the negative stuff is about Joe . '


Lastly we shut down Clemson and USC in the second half with him quarterbacking the operation

Team record should never be used to validate an individual, especially a LB

And I agree, he played well last year...just not this year

The issue is that anyone who's watching the games closely at all can see he's missing TONS of tackles and getting burned...a lot.
There is a reason he has almost 1/2 of the teams misses tackles, according to the stats

Im not trying to bad on Schmidt...but he's not playing well

 

[BGI User 1596]

Schmidt is 15-2 while starting and was voted team MVP last yr

Kelly stated last week that he is not coming off the field

ND imploded after he got hurt

Not sure what all the negative stuff is about Joe . '


Lastly we shut down Clemson and USC in the second half with him quarterbacking the operation

Oh No - We are doomed when Schmidt graduates.

 

[TheDecker]

If it's really so impossible for anyone else to lineup this defense that it's okay to keep a MLB on the field that has missed apart as many tackles as he's made, and not even try more talented players for a couple series......we could be in trouble when he's gone

 

[FightingIrish44]

If it's really so impossible for anyone else to lineup this defense that it's okay to keep a MLB on the field that has missed apart as many tackles as he's made, and not even try more talented players for a couple series......we could be in trouble when he's gone

I think its laughable that people actually credit his ability to line up the defense as a real attribute. Its not that hard to line up a defense, and if it is, the coaches need to simplify things.

That's not why he's in. The coaches just think he's better at football than Morgan. Better to keep your starter and captain in rather than mess up the continuity of the defense.

Other players make mistakes too. Jaylon makes plenty of mental mistakes that result in yardage being given up and he may go pro after this year. Why don't you ask for Morgan to be put in at his position? Oh because he's a great athlete and a shiny five-star, which doesn't make one a great football player.

 

[echowaker]

Not so

You can't run Baylor's offense with Pitt's personnel, nor Navy's, nor Texas Tech's, nor USC's, etc.

They can do some things, but their offense is limited, both by personnel and by their own design (they want to be a limited, straight ahead, offense)

And my issue is, Schmidt is playing poorly
If Schmidt was playing well, I wouldn't want to see him taken off the field....I love his story and I really liked his play in 2014

My issue with Schmidt is he's playing poorly and it's negatively impacting the defense (significantly) and I'd like to see how others could do in his stead, especially against an opponent where they would fit well

of course you can. pitt can run baylors offense. how well ? that is the question.

 

[echowaker]

Team record should never be used to validate an individual, especially a LB

And I agree, he played well last year...just not this year

The issue is that anyone who's watching the games closely at all can see he's missing TONS of tackles and getting burned...a lot.
There is a reason he has almost 1/2 of the teams misses tackles, according to the stats

Im not trying to bad on Schmidt...but he's not playing well

Schmidt has been in position he just isn't finishing as well as last year. unless you understand the nuances of vangorders defense and joe's role in it I'm not sure it's fair to say replace him when the team is doing well. cohesion is huge. will the other players on defense have the same trust in morgan as they do in Schmidt ? I don't see any reason to rock the boat, especially with a team captain.

 

[TheDecker]

I think its laughable that people actually credit his ability to line up the defense as a real attribute. Its not that hard to line up a defense, and if it is, the coaches need to simplify things.

That's not why he's in. The coaches just think he's better at football than Morgan. Better to keep your starter and captain in rather than mess up the continuity of the defense.

Other players make mistakes too. Jaylon makes plenty of mental mistakes that result in yardage being given up and he may go pro after this year. Why don't you ask for Morgan to be put in at his position? Oh because he's a great athlete and a shiny five-star, which doesn't make one a great football player.

No, not even close

Schmidt isn't playing well after the snap, in any phase of the game.
He gets run over by the running backs, he can't get off blocks, and he's an absolute liability in the passing game

The reason he's on the field is 100% because he can get the defense lined up. And the issue you point out, the scheme is incredibly complicated, is a major part of that

Jaylon makes mistakes, because he's not God. But he's an asset in every phase of the game and makes a lot more plays than he does mistakes.....that's not true of Schmidt this year
The reason I'm not asking for Jaylon to be replaced is because of the results he brings on the field.....and I'm not stupid enough to get them confused

When you're playing as bad as Schmidt is, and it's obviously because you lack the physical ability to play better, the question always becomes:
"Can ______ bring more to the table, because this is simply unacceptable"

That's the issue here

 

[FightingIrish44]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[TheDecker]

Schmidt has been in position he just isn't finishing as well as last year. unless you understand the nuances of vangorders defense and joe's role in it I'm not sure it's fair to say replace him when the team is doing well. cohesion is huge. will the other players on defense have the same trust in morgan as they do in Schmidt ? I don't see any reason to rock the boat, especially with a team captain.

I get that, and I know he brings organization, leadership, communication, and cohesion to the table

And the team is playing well

The issue is, the defense isn't "playing well"

1. 113th in 25+ Yard Rushes Allowed
2. 96th in Turnovers Created
3. 93rd in Red Zone Touchdown Defense
4. 93rd in Sacks
5. 92nd in 25+ Yard Plays Allowed
6. 92nd in Forced Fumbles
7. 87th in Yards per Carry Allowed
8. 81st in Interceptions
9. 69th in Rushing Yards Per Game Allowed
10. 58th in Total Yards per Play Allowed
11. 50th in Tackles for Loss

That's 10+ significant stats where ND is outside the Top50 Defenses in CFB......and a lot of that is on the "post-snap play" we're getting from the MLB position

So I'd like to start and see if we can get better play from that position.....because we're going to need it

 

[TheDecker]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm not sure how you can watch the games (sober) and possibly disagree with the facts that:

• Schmidt gets run over in the run game
• Schmidt is OFTEN burned in coverage
• Schmidt misses LOTS of tackles (look up the stats, he has almost half of ND's missed tackles by himself)

Doesn't really seem like something that's at all up for debate

 

[Get Nasty]

Schmidt has been in position he just isn't finishing as well as last year. unless you understand the nuances of vangorders defense and joe's role in it I'm not sure it's fair to say replace him when the team is doing well. cohesion is huge. will the other players on defense have the same trust in morgan as they do in Schmidt ? I don't see any reason to rock the boat, especially with a team captain.

It doesn't matter how good of a position you are in if you don't make the plays. It hasn't just been a game or two, it's been the entire season. That's enough chances, change is needed to be elite.

 

[FightingIrish44]

I'm not sure how you can watch the games (sober) and possibly disagree with the facts that:

• Schmidt gets run over in the run game
• Schmidt is OFTEN burned in coverage
• Schmidt misses LOTS of tackles (look up the stats, he has almost half of ND's missed tackles by himself)

Doesn't really seem like something that's at all up for debate

I do watch the games sober. I break down each snap 10-15 times during the week and have some coaching experience. I plan to get back into coaching and love ND, so I like spending time analyzing their games. So I know a good amount about x's and o's and a little about fundamentals.

Its important to understand why yardage is given up. Its not fair to watch a pass get completed, see Schmidt as the closest defender, and then point out that he did a bad job.

1). There were several times where Schmidt got his butt whooped by two Navy offensive lineman. It looks bad, and perhaps he should have just went to the ground to create a pile, but if one understands how ND was defending Navy (as well as having knowledge of the blocking schemes Navy employs), they can see that what ND was trying to do wasn't all that sound. In other words, it didn't matter that it was Joe Schmidt or Luke Keuchly. He wasn't going to make the play.

2). Temple came out in a trips formation set. Schmidt's job was to take away the inside throws of that receiver aligned furthest inside. An out route was completed. Its easy to see the pass was completed and blame Schmidt, but he was doing what he was supposed to and Temple executed well enough to take advantage of a soft spot in the scheme. Its difficult to be a run first defender, take away the inside throws, and take away the outside throws. And no, there wasn't anything unsound about ND's scheme that play.

3. There was that TD pass completed to the guy that Schmidt was covering in the first half. The camera angle was piss poor, but it looked like Schmidt was in pretty good position on the throw. It was a body positioning type route where you box the defender out. The QB took a risk attempting it, and it was a good throw. It looked like Schmidt was trying to reach around and knock it away, but ended up falling due to the good position the receiver had on him.

It was easy watching live for me to get pissed at Schmidt for missing the tackle, but breaking it down, its understandable.

I only can recall two real mistakes from Schmidt vs. Temple. 1). Didn't get to frontside of an isolation play (when he had safety help on the cutback). Even that was somewhat understandable as there was a big cutback lane temporarily. 2. Temple ran outside zone to the trips side of the formation. Schmidt needed to collision that inside receiver and better maintain the line of scrimmage. Farley was also a little slow to react. The next time Temple did that, he did a much better job.

You have to be fair when evaluating the players. That's not to say he hasn't missed some key tackles (that crossing route vs. USC and that sack he should have had vs. USC).

 

[Pennick4]

Can't believe we only have 1 loss with such a terrible player on the field.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Wins and losses have close to nothing to do with Schmidt being a good or bad player. Do you think an NFL team is going to take him because he came from a winner (we'll see)?

 

[Pennick4]

Wins and losses have close to nothing to do with Schmidt being a good or bad player. Do you think an NFL team is going to take him because he came from a winner (we'll see)?

Could care less if he goes to the NFL.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Could care less if he goes to the NFL.

Right. I'm trying to illustrate how its a team game and W's don't mean one particular player is good. I think ND is 7-1 regardless of Schmidt being in.

Tommy Rees led ND to 9-4. Do you think he's a good QB?

 

[NDCap]

My concern this week is the play action game to the TE's. ND has to play great on offense in the RZ. Score the points and make Pitt one dimensional. Schmidt is playing not even a discussion. Look for more Grace/ Martini for Onuwalu. IMO Smith should have played OLB instead of Onuwalu from day one and Coney / Grace should have completed at Smiths' position inside. Jaylon Smith can cover and blitz . Onuwalu does not make plays . Schmidt gets criticized for good reasons but his ability to line up the Defense is too important at tis stage of the season to take chances. I still think Morgan can get a few more reps here and there .Weakside DE and the OLB position have been atrocious thus far.

 

[echowaker]

I get that, and I know he brings organization, leadership, communication, and cohesion to the table

And the team is playing well

The issue is, the defense isn't "playing well"

1. 113th in 25+ Yard Rushes Allowed
2. 96th in Turnovers Created
3. 93rd in Red Zone Touchdown Defense
4. 93rd in Sacks
5. 92nd in 25+ Yard Plays Allowed
6. 92nd in Forced Fumbles
7. 87th in Yards per Carry Allowed
8. 81st in Interceptions
9. 69th in Rushing Yards Per Game Allowed
10. 58th in Total Yards per Play Allowed
11. 50th in Tackles for Loss

That's 10+ significant stats where ND is outside the Top50 Defenses in CFB......and a lot of that is on the "post-snap play" we're getting from the MLB position

So I'd like to start and see if we can get better play from that position.....because we're going to need it

to blame the numbers you cited primarily on the play of joe Schmidt is patently absurd. you truly do not understand the nuances of vangorders defense. I assure you that if vangorder truly believed nyles morgan or any other player would perform better than joe schmidt in that position that player would be in there. football is the ultimate team game. statistics are a lot of times terribly misleading.

 

[echowaker]

My concern this week is the play action game to the TE's. ND has to play great on offense in the RZ. Score the points and make Pitt one dimensional. Schmidt is playing not even a discussion. Look for more Grace/ Martini for Onuwalu. IMO Smith should have played OLB instead of Onuwalu from day one and Coney / Grace should have completed at Smiths' position inside. Jaylon Smith can cover and blitz . Onuwalu does not make plays . Schmidt gets criticized for good reasons but his ability to line up the Defense is too important at tis stage of the season to take chances. I still think Morgan can get a few more reps here and there .Weakside DE and the OLB position have been atrocious thus far.

atrocious ? ridiculous statement.