Lol, someone has his jimmies rustled. Interesting. I can type slower next time if it helps.
Bama intimidated ND prior to BCS NC game.
- Thread starter NDinNJ
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Jimmies rustled? Not too much. I’m just not a fan of unnecessary, weasel comments.
If the respective coaches in that game would have switched teams the outcome would have been the same. ND was a huge underdog for a reason. Bama was that much better. It would have been an absolute fluke had ND won.
You quoted my post while using the pronoun “you”. It would help if you quoted NDinNJ or expounded on your point.
It was a legit question. Sounded like you were trying to catch up. Didn’t mean to hurt feelings
If you were sincerely asking if I was caught up, then I sincerely apologize for my weasel comment.
I’m not buying it though and would hope you understand why your “caught up” comment would come off as sarcastic or condescending even if it wasn’t intended.
Even your “type slower” comment. What exactly have I said that demonstrates an inability to comprehend? Asking for an elaboration is just that. I was comprehending fine and just asking for clarification/detail. We weren’t talking about comprehension at that point but you needed to get your jab in…probably/maybe what you were doing in your other post. You’re petty IMO.
No, it was a legit question, if anything just written quickly. I answered all parts of the question as it looked like you were having conversations with others as well.
I absolutely gave you crap after your response to jimmies post
Takes me a while to get upset, I’ll just throw crap back
Signed,
Petty
A large part of me believes you. Part of me doesn’t…sorry. I sincerely apologize if you meant nothing by it.
Your initial “caught up” remark comes off like, “got it, buddy?” or “you with the program yet?” It was extemporaneous and didn’t need to be said. It also implies finality. Like that’s the final word. I don’t think it is. It comes off condescending to me.
I do apologize if you really meant nothing by it.
They had a huge team. The 2 OL Manti mentioned weighed about 320 and 340. Their RB Lacy weighed 250. However, we had some future NFL players on our team, too, like Manti, Zack Martin, Eifert, Theo Riddick and Stephon Tuitt. But they had more. Most of their starting lineup probably played in the NFL.
Men vs boys. It’s that simple. ND had a very good team. Got a few breaks that year in some tough games to go undefeated. But if you’re honest, there was no comparison. That game was over after the first Bama drive. Everyone knew it. I don’t blame Kelly. No one was beating Alabama that night.
Accepted. All good. It was legit. I’m pretty direct when I want to get 💩. There won’t be any question, lol.
You just over read, which we all do at times. No worries
Agree with NJ, the Miami game 41-8 was a perfect example. ND was not out manned in that game but got whooped. It happened over and over during the BK era. And yes there man have been a talent gap at times but the teams played scared, trying to not make a mistake. The business approach restricted confidence and didn’t allow them to play free or loose.
They didn’t even show up in the Natty game and weren’t remotely competitive..that’s on the coaches. Believe the spread was 14 points, could have lived with that rather than the embarrassment that took place.
Cool.
I’m not asking you to divulge or remember, but I’d be very interested in learning who said what exactly. There’s a difference between casually acknowledging that the other team was physically imposing and being legitimately intimidated physically. Te’o implied the latter IMO and I don’t believe that.
Just because a team got pounded on the scoreboard doesn’t mean that they were physically pounded. So someone saying it was a beatdown doesn’t tell me a whole lot.
I say the same thing in reverse about Notre Dame. ND didn’t physically dominate Clemson in 2022 and USC in 2023 even though it was a beatdown on the scoreboard.
The reason ND got whooped 41-8 to Miami IS because of the talent difference. Not just the talent difference between Miami & Notre Dame but also the talent difference between Notre Dame and the rest of the teams in the country.
Basically Notre Dame wasn't talented enough in 2017 to NOT receive a butt whooping vs the 20th ranked team (as per F+ that year).
Talent doesn't just matter in a single head to head match up -- where its important to be more talented than the team you're lining up against -- but you have to be talented enough to not lose games to the 20th ranked team in the country along the way (because more talented teams than you aren't losing to the 20th ranked team in the country along the way)
This is a hard point to explain but i hope it registers/makes sense.
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I think there’s a little something to be said about playing scared in the 2012 Bama game. Not so much in other big games. Perhaps a little in the 2020 Alabama game but not much. But I look at that as more nerves and the stage being a little too big (2012). That’s still only a small part of it compared to getting out-schemed. I don’t want to imply that Kelly was blameless in getting his players’ minds right. I thought he said stupid things.
As it pertains to the business-like approach, what other approach is there? I don’t agree that they didn’t show up in the national title. They just got crushed. The 2012 Alabama team was down 20-0 after the first quarter against Texas A&M. Did Saban do something wrong in his preparation, or did that Alabama team just find themselves down big like many other teams do? I don’t think they failed to show up. It just happens sometimes.
Every play can be broken down to try to discern what happened. All of the plays add up to the final score. I think it’s an oversimplification to say that Kelly’s teams didn’t show up.
I don't mind losing in a national championship game; just getting the opportunity to win it all that season should be viewed as a success (ESPECIALLY relative to the last 30 years at Notre Dame).
What bothered me the most about that game in 2013 was the complete and utter lack of competitiveness in that game. I think Alabama got more of a challenge from their show/scrimmage team than what ND was able to put forward against Alabama that game.
it also didn't help that that game was about 20 years into a run (that still continues to this day) where ND simply hasn't been remotely competitive against tier 1/top 5 competition.
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I can share. It was a convo at the ND-Rutgers Bball game a couple weeks later, and some beverages after. Backup CB said they “had 2 dozen Prince Shembos to our one”. Frosh OL said “they were bigger than I ever thought”. Walk on TE said they “manhandled us, was worried how I would do if I got in”.
All ‘let your hair down” comments from non-starters, who I have known for a while..that seems to agree with some acknowledgement of intimidation
Well that Alabama team was loaded and hungry. I do agree it didn’t even look like ND got off the plane. There’s an argument to be made that they could have put up a tougher fight. It would have been nice to see them be competitive. But it wasn’t meant to be. Saban had the team rolling and they were better at every position. Like I said most teams would have gotten smoked that night. It was hard to watch and a painful beat down. But it was a really great season nonetheless that year. You have to give Saban credit. He’s one hell of a coach. One thing not mentioned is that he also ran a clean program. I don’t recall any players getting into trouble and most of the Alabama players I saw interviewed handled themselves with class and dignity. In today’s “ win at all costs” environment, Saban was able to win without selling out. He has a ton of respect for that.
I’ll just comment on the point about a clean program. Dozens of Bama players were arrested or cited, then cleared of legal troubles under his reign. Saban had more control over the area than JoePa did in Happy Valley. It wasn’t as bad as Meyer but it was near the top of the SEC.
I did appreciate his tutoring of his players prior to interviews and draft night, etc. Saban had almost one staff member responsible for every individual player. Full control over outside influence
I won’t disagree. Maybe the issues weren’t as publicized as Florida’s. I’m not sure. Still , I always got the impression Saban was a straight shooter and he ran a good program. Not to say there weren’t issues. But in general a good program. I just remember when he was at Michigan State and thinking, this guy would be a perfect coach for ND.
I’m not completely dismissing what they said, but it seems hyperbolic. Two dozen Shembo’s? ND had Shembo (4th round), Nix (3rd round), Tuitt (2nd round sophomore), and a fifth year Kapron Lewis-Moore (5th round). ND had talent up front. I understand depth can be an issue but believe that ND was dominated regardless of depth. They got beat on the chalkboard primarily.
I respect the walk-on…but he’s a walk-on. It’s not surprising that he would be concerned how he would hold up. I’d be too. I wonder what Tyler Eifert thought while he was out there? He had 6 catches for 61 yards and was drafted in the 1st round. A couple of near-catches too IIRC.
Te’o talks like these guys were so big and scary. It makes one wonder how scared he must have been on Sundays. That’s why I say that it doesn’t add up. I just can’t buy it. I think he’s exaggerating/projecting even if he doesn’t realize it. That and that I’m confident that his team got out-schemed.
The entire story from Manti Teo was a made for TV exaggerated production that got what it wanted.
Anything Notre Dame Football sells. Anything Notre Dame Football gets clicks.
Data doesn’t support this, you’re a big recruiting rankings guy yea?
2013
ND #5
Miami #15
2014
ND #11
Miami #12
2015
ND #13
Miami #27
2016
ND #15
Miami #22
Nobody in the SEC operates a “…clean program…” except for Vanderbilt.
Sure it was exaggerated. But I think Bama had its way from snap one, and the Irish were resigned to getting beat.
Kelly interviewing for NFL head coaching jobs leading up to the BCS NC probably didn't help things.
I know ND had the more talented roster in that game. Just look at the team talent composite back in 2017. ND was #10 to Miami's #20 in terms of how their 85 man roster compared. https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/
Funny enough, nothing much has changed at all in the last 7 years. ND is #11 in 2023 talent rankings with only 1 more composite 5 star on their roster than back then lol. But I digress.
My point is that there's no arbitrary cut off where you have enough talent. It isn't good enough to simply be more talented than your opponent. The question is how much more talented are you than Miami? More talented than Miami to the degree that Alabama was ? That OSU was, that USC was, that Georgia and LSU were?
The more you out-talent your opposition the greater the likelihood for the victory. When you out talent Miami to the degree that Alabama (#1) or OSU (#2) did that year, it's virtually impossible to randomly get ran over by the 20th ranked team in the country the way that ND did.
This is an important point but really difficult to explain correctly.
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The team certainly wasn't resigned going 12-0. Numerous great wins, beating Stanford stands out. At Oklahoma as well.
The win at USC to go 12-0 is one of my favorite wins of the last 15 years. Theo Riddick was $$$$$$$$$.
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ND was a 7 point underdog (not terrible) and MANY ND fans -- prior to the game -- were convinced that they would compete if not win that game.
It's the same unashamed fanboys that think ND has a chance to compete with these tier 1 modern powers today.
Talent disparity. no one was beating Aggy that night.
Could you IMAGINE if somehow fate landed us prime Nick fn Saban and he was at ND instead for the post MSU part of his career?
Maybe we can entice him with enough zeros to come out of retirement and show the world what the greatest coach in the history of the game could do at a place like Notre Dame to put a final stamp on his legacy? It sounds like a dream but THIS STUFF DOES HAPPEN LOL.
Great posts btw throughout this thread. Responses like yours are why I visit here so frequently.
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They had the better team, but they also out-coached us. Alabama was better prepared.
I am with you on this. I think Manti was making it sound worse than it really was; maybe there is an element of post hoc rationalization in there to explain why ND was dominated in the manner it was? Was ND dominated? Yes. But was it because they were intimidated? I doubt it. I once had a brief conversation with Robby Toma about the game. My impression was that he didn't feel like they were prepared, and simply didn't make good adjustments during the game, though he didn't say that in so many words. And let's face it, Alabama's running backs were a load. Let's not also forget that while ND came into the game with a 12-0 record, we easily could have lost a couple of games that season. We should have lost to Pitt and of course the Stanford game went down to the last play. So it is not as if we had a juggernaut team. I wonder how much Kelly's courtship by the Philadelphia Eagles became a distraction in the championship game. It was obvious Saban had the Tide prepared, but that is what you came to expect with Saban. With Kelly, on the other hand, he just always seemed to falter under the bright lights and on the big stage.
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