2016 Depth Chart and Position Battles

[TheDecker]

With the NFL EE's (Jaylon, Fuller, Prosise, Russell) we should have a pretty decent idea of what the 2016 Roster is going to look like

With that roster, what's your thought on how the depth chart will unfold and what position battle are most interesting to you?


Imo

Depth Chart
(" / " = Tied on Depth Chart, " , " Ordered on Depth Chart)

QB - Kizer / Zaire , Wimbush
RB - Folston / Adams , Williams / Brent
HB - Luatua
WRx - Hunter / St. Brown , Holmes
WRw - Robinson / Boykin , McKinley
WRz - Sanders / Hunter , Brent
TE - Jones / Smythe , Weishar
LT - Bars , Bivin
LG - Nelson , McGovern
C - Mustipher / Hodge
RG - Elmer , Montelus
RT - McGlinchey , Harrell

WDE - Trumbetti , Randolph / Kareem
NT - Jones / Cage , Matsuka / Mowauha
DT - Tillery / Hayes , Bonner / Dew-Treadway
SDE - Rochell , Blankenship / Bonner
WLB - Coney / Barajas , Bilal
MLB - Morgan / Barajas , Hayes
SLB - Onwaulu / Martini , Bilal
CB - Luke , Coleman / Watkins
CB - Watkins / Butler / Coleman
NB - Crawford
FS - Redfield , Butler
SS - Tranquill , Avery

PK - Yoon
P - Newsome
KR - Williams
PR - Sanders

 

[Telx1]

Thanks Decker, a nice respite from critiquing this year's team accomplishments. Agree with nearly all of the two deep you suggest, with a few exceptions.

Kizer, the kid performed exceptional for his level of experience, etc... Have been concerned about the time he takes to pull the trigger, as I don't think he trusts the routes and timing, etc... Prefers to wait for separation, and that caused problems in the red zone, and against superior defensive backs. Hoped he would show better in the Bowl game in this area, and he didn't. For this reason, I think the starting QB job is up for grabs.

Folston, been a supporter of him since his freshman year, and fully appreciated why he emerged over
Bryant. Guy just shows excellent vision and patience, and blocks exceptionally well on pass plays. Just don't see how you keep Adams off the field, and I would pencil him in as the starter.

The Mustifer Hodge battle will be interesting, and I expect Hodge to win the starting nod.

Lots to be encouraged about, especially if Trumbetti continues to improve, and Kareem is good enough for spot duty.

 

[chitown-irish]

I'd like to see tranquil get a shot at lb. He's the same size as onwaulu and in my opinion a better athelete and would be better against the run.

 

[TheDecker]

Thanks Decker, a nice respite from critiquing this year's team accomplishments. Agree with nearly all of the two deep you suggest, with a few exceptions.

Kizer, the kid performed exceptional for his level of experience, etc... Have been concerned about the time he takes to pull the trigger, as I don't think he trusts the routes and timing, etc... Prefers to wait for separation, and that caused problems in the red zone, and against superior defensive backs. Hoped he would show better in the Bowl game in this area, and he didn't. For this reason, I think the starting QB job is up for grabs.

Folston, been a supporter of him since his freshman year, and fully appreciated why he emerged over
Bryant. Guy just shows excellent vision and patience, and blocks exceptionally well on pass plays. Just don't see how you keep Adams off the field, and I would pencil him in as the starter.

The Mustifer Hodge battle will be interesting, and I expect Hodge to win the starting nod.

Lots to be encouraged about, especially if Trumbetti continues to improve, and Kareem is good enough for spot duty.

I could see either Kizer or Zaire starting...honestly I could
I 100% understand your concerns with Kizer, though QB's usually make their largest jumps from Year 1 to Year 2, and that's even more true for young guys.
However Zaire has shown some things that simply can't be ignored...and will improve too

Personally, I think both QB's play, but the "starter" will be whoever shows more improvement from now until the 1st snap of the Texas game



At RB, I don't think the "starter" is really all that important.
RB is a position that you rotate, even if you have a dominant/Heisman-Level player. I think both Adams and Folston should get ~15 carries a game...and whoever the hot hand is in that game may end up closer to 20

 

[TheDecker]

Best Battles:

1. QB
It's a QB battle between layers who have already shown talent and winning. Enough said

2. LB
There is an potential battle at every LB position.
MLB (Morgan, Barajas, and Martini)
WLB (Coney, Barajas, Bilal)
SLB (Onwaulu, Martini, Bilal, maybe Tranquill)
Not a ton of experience in that group, but there is some, with about 3-4 players with multiple starts...and tons of potential

3. WR
Lost a mountain of production with Fuller, Brown, and Prosise. But there is a ton of potential and decent experience to replace them with. I love the potential of Hunter, Robinson, ESB, Boykin, Sanders, McKinley, Claypool, etc.

4. CB
We lost Russell, but it's not that big of a loss, relatively. And the potential we have is with the younger players like Watkins, Crawford, Coleman, and even Butler is really exciting. We could take a big step forwards at CB this year.

5. OL (C and LT)
We lost 2 great talents at the most important 2 positions on the OL, imo. But we've loaded up on OL talent, we've just kept doing it, and we've shwon we can develop them. Hard not to be excited about the potential for those positions with guys like Bars, Bivin, Mustipher, Hodge, Harrell, Eichenberge, Kreamer, etc.

 

[TheDecker]

I'm interested in the battles at TE, S, DE, DT, and KR too...but those are the battles I'm most excited about

 

[Irish Grandeur]

I've not seen news of J.Smith declaring this year - can you provide your info link?

 

[TheDecker]

I've not seen news of J.Smith declaring this year - can you provide your info link?

He hasn't officially declared yet. But he will. It's really the only rent that makes any sense

I hope to god he stays, but I don't see him playing football in 2016 either way (which REALLY sucks) so the NFL is the only logical choice

 

[Irish Grandeur]

He hasn't officially declared yet. But he will. It's really the only rent that makes any sense

I hope to god he stays, but I don't see him playing football in 2016 either way (which REALLY sucks) so the NFL is the only logical choice

Ok, I thought I missed something. I was somewhat surprised that Prosise and Russell declared this year. And, Fuller said he was returning and then changed his mind - that's disappointing for me as a fan.

Funny thing, the two that I was sure to be gone (Smith and Stanley) have not declared. I expected those two to declare and the other three that have declared to be back - go figure

 

[TheDecker]

Ok, I thought I missed something. I was somewhat surprised that Prosise and Russell declared this year. And, Fuller said he was returning and then changed his mind - that's disappointing for me as a fan.

Funny thing, the two that I was sure to be gone (Smith and Stanley) have not declared. I expected those two to declare and the other three that have declared to be back - go figure

Stanley has declared. He said he was going before the bowl game (basically that he always knew this was his last year, when he made the choice to come back last year...despite getting a 1st round grade)

I hoped Fuller and Prosise would stay, and I think they both should have

Russell was always going to leave, no matter what. He was just ready to be done with school. Though I think he should have come back as well

 

[Irish Grandeur]

Stanley has declared. He said he was going before the bowl game (basically that he always knew this was his last year, when he made the choice to come back last year...despite getting a 1st round grade)

I hoped Fuller and Prosise would stay, and I think they both should have

Russell was always going to leave, no matter what. He was just ready to be done with school. Though I think he should have come back as well

Thanks. I never saw the Stanley news but expected it.

 

[IllinoisIrish]

Jaylon is leaving, no doubt. Wasn't surprised with Prosise. Running back is not only stacked at ND, but the draft next year for RB is incredible. No brainer for him. The most I was surprised was for Fuller and Russel. Fuller needed another year to improve his hands/route running, you can't just run past people in the NFL, and he may have been the best WR in the country. I thought Russel took a step back this year, and after his broken leg I thought for sure he'd be back. Maybe he was afraid he wouldn't get cleared. In the end, I thought there was a good chance we would get half of these guys back, and it really sucks that they are all leaving.

 

[Pennick4]

Best Battles:

1. QB
It's a QB battle between layers who have already shown talent and winning. Enough said

2. LB
There is an potential battle at every LB position.
MLB (Morgan, Barajas, and Martini)
WLB (Coney, Barajas, Bilal)
SLB (Onwaulu, Martini, Bilal, maybe Tranquill)
Not a ton of experience in that group, but there is some, with about 3-4 players with multiple starts...and tons of potential

3. WR
Lost a mountain of production with Fuller, Brown, and Prosise. But there is a ton of potential and decent experience to replace them with. I love the potential of Hunter, Robinson, ESB, Boykin, Sanders, McKinley, Claypool, etc.

4. CB
We lost Russell, but it's not that big of a loss, relatively. And the potential we have is with the younger players like Watkins, Crawford, Coleman, and even Butler is really exciting. We could take a big step forwards at CB this year.

5. OL (C and LT)
We lost 2 great talents at the most important 2 positions on the OL, imo. But we've loaded up on OL talent, we've just kept doing it, and we've shwon we can develop them. Hard not to be excited about the potential for those positions with guys like Bars, Bivin, Mustipher, Hodge, Harrell, Eichenberge, Kreamer, etc.

Stanley is a big loss but ND might be better at center next year.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Talented group, but very young at some key positions and lacking depth in the defensive front 7. Transfers and mediocre development have ravaged the defensive line.

Solid squad, but not a national title contender, IMO. The offensive line, defensive line, linebackers and wide receivers all take a step back, and those were the 4 best position groups on the team this year.

 

[twalsh]

Solid squad, but not a national title contender, IMO. The offensive line, defensive line, linebackers and wide receivers all take a step back, and those were the 4 best position groups on the team this year.

You really have to wait and see. In 2012 we had to replace several starters off the 2011 defense, and it appeared that we'd take a step back. The new guys that came in played very well and we ended up taking a step forward. The program has more depth now than at any time since Holtz left, and we redshirt kids because of numbers in their position group versus the old way of redshirting kids because they are not ready to play D1 football.

 

[TheDecker]

Stanley is a big loss but ND might be better at center next year.

Agree on both points, from a talent perspective

But I REALLY like Alex Bars as a OT prospect (on the level of Martin, Stanley, and McGlinchey imo) and Center is a position where experience and knowledge of the offense is just as important as actual physical ability

I do think the 2016 OL could be as physically gifted, or perhaps even more so, than the 2015 OL. Hopefully better stability at QB and RB helps us to take more advantage of it

 

[1Redrum]

I think you will see big improvements in Tillery next year. I had great seats to the USC game and could watch the line play up close and he had a few plays of great hand work and pressure. I think another 9 months of training and gaining muscle will do him wonders and should be a force for the next two to three years.

 

[TheDecker]

Talented group, but very young at some key positions and lacking depth in the defensive front 7. Transfers and mediocre development have ravaged the defensive line.

Solid squad, but not a national title contender, IMO. The offensive line, defensive line, linebackers and wide receivers all take a step back, and those were the 4 best position groups on the team this year.

I agree, I don't think it's a NCG level group....but then that was also true of the Clemson team playing in the NCG this year (less talented than previous year, OL/DL/LB all taking a step backwards)

I'm not sure I agree about the OL taking a step backwards though

It will depend on how guys develop, but with the talent and experience we have there, I think we could end up being just as good or possibly even better.

Also, not 100% sold on the DL taking a step backwards.
We lose Day but get Jones back...which seems like a wash at DT to me.
At DE, we lose Okwara, who has developed into a nice player (I really wish we had redshirted him, his best football is ahead of him). But Trumbetti looks to be a similar prospect to what Okwara was coming into 2015.
Beyond that, you have to think that having guys like Rochell, Tillery, Cage, Hayes, Blakenship, etc continuing to develop is a pretty significant advantage

I see those positions as
OL - Same or slightly worse
DL - Improved
LB - Worse

 

[Pennick4]

I think you will see big improvements in Tillery next year. I had great seats to the USC game and could watch the line play up close and he had a few plays of great hand work and pressure. I think another 9 months of training and gaining muscle will do him wonders and should be a force for the next two to three years.

I think the defensive line will be better with J. Jones and the younger guys getting stronger. The dl recruits from last year's recruits got the opportunity to red shirt and Jay Hayes sat out as well. We shall see.

 

[TheDecker]

The depth chart and style I'm hoping to see come fall

QB - Kizer , Zaire

Kizer improves so significantly in the off-season that he can't be unseated as the starting QB. He gets ~70% of the snaps after securing the job. Zaire's skills are too significant to keep on the bench though. The plan is to use him in a package that would focus on the zone-read and the play action pass, especially for short yard and red-zone work but also as a "change of pace" package. Wimbush redshirts

RB - Folston / Adams , Williams / Brent

Folston and Adams are "co-starters" and share the load. Both get 15-20 carries a game. Neither is a "specialized back" but Adams is leaned on a little more between the 20's and Folston slightly more in the red-zone and short yardage. Both Williams and Brent get some PT and are used in the passing game as well (open field playmakers)

WRw - Robinson , Boykin , McKinley
WRx - St. Brown , Holmes , Stepherson
WRz - Hunter , Sanders

Robinson and St. Brown show the kind of focus in the off-season that's been missing so far. That, coupled with the size and athleticism, makes it impossible to keep them off the field. Hunter is simply the most reliable, balanced, and versatile WR on the roster. The improvement of the others move him to the slot, because he can play there and he MUST be on the field. The versatility and depth of the overall group gets 5-6 guys major PT.

LT - Bars , Harrell
LG - Nelson , McGovern
C - Mustipher , Hodge
RG - Elmer , Montelus
RT - McGlinchey , Bivin

The #6 and #7 OLs from this past season (Bars and Mustipher) step up and go from "next man in" to reliable starters. They step up enough that all the returning starters are able to stay in the same positions and continue to grow...especially as they'll all have at least 1 season as starters under their belts now.

 

[NDCap]

Is there any chance Fuller can change his mind again and return? He changed his mind once . What IF Jaylon decides to return ? Have these guys officially entered their names in the draft ?

 

[NDCap]

Offensively ND has to become more creative . More misdirection in the run-game and more play action to get the WR's open. there was no one better in the country stretching the defenses as Will Fuller. I do like the size of the Wr's though. ESB is 6-4 Robinson 6-4 Boykin 6-3 and possibly Claypool at 6-5 can be matchup nightmares for defense. I hope ESB has some speed . Also the TE position needs to become a major force in the passing game. Jones , Smythe latua and Weisher IMO are going to be a great asset to the run and pass game. . Use them all . 2 at a time. 3 at a time if need be. to have wr's and TE with size can makeup for the lack of speed somewhat. Run game , screen game and more deception.

 

[Pennick4]

Anyone have a list of potential 5 year guys?

 

[Telx1]

Ara posted elsewhere: Harrel and Daly and Jones with Sebastian a possible six yr medical.

 

[Pennick4]

Ara posted elsewhere: Harrel and Daly and Jones with Sebastian a possible six yr medical.

Thx. I read somewhere that Sebastian is getting a 6th. Apparently it has been approved.

 

[napy2121]

Is there any chance Fuller can change his mind again and return? He changed his mind once . What IF Jaylon decides to return ? Have these guys officially entered their names in the draft ?

No on both. Jaylon at worst will fall to the second round, which is still guaranteed money and millions or high six figures. On top of that if he does fall to the second round he collects another 5mil on insurance. So he can get that money that is guaranteed, rehab while getting paid, or do it for nothing in college? No brainer there. As for fuller I think he's hired an agent so he's gone. It's ok to let go, we'll ND will be ok.

 

[TheDecker]

Interestingly enough, there is some "smoke" out there about NFL guys advising Jaylon to return to ND, because of the injury, as long as doctors think he'll be able to play in 2016

I doubt he does return, but him leaving doesn't seem to be the 100% slamdunk that it was before the injury
(Now it's only 99.95%)

 

[twalsh]

Interestingly enough, there is some "smoke" out there about NFL guys advising Jaylon to return to ND, because of the injury, as long as doctors think he'll be able to play in 2016

I doubt he does return, but him leaving doesn't seem to be the 100% slamdunk that it was before the injury
(Now it's only 99.95%)

He's really not likely to be ready to play next fall for us, or anyone else.

 

[TheDecker]

He's really not likely to be ready to play next fall for us, or anyone else.

That would be my primary concern if I was Jaylon

If you're going to have to sit out for most/all of hte season, do it while getting paid

 

[Get Nasty]

Talented group, but very young at some key positions and lacking depth in the defensive front 7. Transfers and mediocre development have ravaged the defensive line.

Solid squad, but not a national title contender, IMO. The offensive line, defensive line, linebackers and wide receivers all take a step back, and those were the 4 best position groups on the team this year.

I actually disagree here on the step backs.

1. WR, Fuller is a huge loss, but I personally think Brown was extremely overrated by fans because he was a feel good story. I think you will see more players have good years next year but no one will have a huge year like fuller.

2. Offensive line. Stanley and Martin are big senior losses but both were not great run blockers and martin was probably the worst olinemen this year. We may give up a few more pressures next year but i'm expecting more push.

3. Dline - ND had no consistent run presence in the middle. Day was a great dlinemen but he couldn't hold the point of attack, if he didn't shoot a gap he got bulldozed. Cage was injured a lot, jones was out, and tillery was a true frosh. I think a healthy cage and jones/tillery starting will be better in the middle than we had last year. then Trumbetti and Rochelle i think will be similar to this year's DE's with hopefully rochelle staying outside other than passing downs. If the light really comes on for trumbetti i htink he has more potential and is a better athlete than romeo.

4. lineback. I'm in the group that see's Joe as the worst starting middle line backer for notre dame in the last 20 years. Losing Jaylon is massive but possibly getting 2 good athletes on the field instead of 1 insane athlete and 1 poor athlete might not be a huge loss. THis is the biggest ? for me and could lead to the widest potential outcome.

 

[kellys heroes 35]

IMO ND has to continue to put up 30+ per game I think the pieces are def in place for that - StBrown Boykin A Jones will give us a more balanced passing attack next yr vs just Fuller

I think Bars will take over for Stanley . We have a lot of pieces for the DL - Cage - Tillery - Trumbetti - Hayes - Kareem - Rochelle .

Bilal Barajas - Morgan Toney will be the biggest ???marks for me