When Recruiting Meets Retention

[IrishInOntario]

We've been discussing Notre Dame's defense and whether recruiting, scheme, development, or more than likely, what percentage of each, has attributed to Notre Dame's poor defensive play. While there have been some misses in recruiting, the scheme has been lacking and development has been questionable at times, the one issue people don't seem to be discussing is personnel retention. For the most part, the best defenses across the country are the ones built full of upper classmen, who have had time to develop... I took some time out to evaluate the 2 components of retention, not including early departures for the NFL, which is in theory, a positive, not a negative. Therefore, I looked at transfers / academic casualties / dismissals, and players who retired for medical reasons...

When you factor in that ND is trying to compete for the playoffs with teams that will often out recruit them, retention of personnel is vital to ND's on field success. Look at how this turned out...

These players would be on the 2016 defensive roster this year...

S: Nicky Baratti (medical)- 5th year SR.
S: Max Redfield (dismissal)- SR.
WDE: Doug Randolph (medical)- SR.
DB: Devin Butler (Suspended)- SR.
DB: Rashad Kinlaw (dismissal)- SR.
LB: Michael Deeb (medical)- SR.
DT: Eddie Vanderdoes (never showed up)- SR.
LB: Nile Sykes (did not qualify)- JR.
DB: Nick Watkins (medical, out for season)- JR.
DB: Grant Blankenship (dismissal)- JR.
WDE: Kolin Hill (transfer)- JR.
WDE: Jhonathan Williams (transfer)- JR.
S: Mykelti Williams (transfer)- SOPH.
S: Prentice Mckinney (did not qualify)- SOPH.
CB: Shaun Crawford (medical, out for season)- SOPH.
WDE: Bo Wallace (did not qualify)- SOPH.
DT: Micah Dew-Treadway (medical, out for season)- SOPH

Injuries happen, there is nothing you can do about that in most instances. However, if you look at ND's major issues, DE play and DB play and look at how many defections they have had from guys that they were counting on, it's not hard to see how some recruiting misses and poor scheme and lack of fundamental development can be greatly excaserbated by defection. It's further compounded when you look at how many would be upper classmen it has cost ND.

As coaches, we teach in the now, but we have to project down the road as well, in order to fill recruiting needs, anticipate scheme and personnel developments and predict depth charts... ND has had insanely high turnover for a school that traditionally hasn't lost a great deal of students to academic casualty, despite tougher than normal academics, and that is manifesting itself this year (and ladt year to an extent) as ND's starting group and depth chart has been stripped of would be, developed talent.

Here is a mock idea of what ND's 3-deep on its defensive line and in its secondary should have looked like coming into this season, obviously before injuries could add up as well.

WDE: Jay Hayes (JR)
2. Kolin Hill (JR) or Bo Wallace (SOPH)
3. Andrew Trumbetti (JR)

DT: Eddie Vanderdoes (SR)
2. Jerry Tillery (SOPH)
3. Isaac Rochell (SR)

NG: Jarron Jones (5TH)
2. Daniel Cage (JR)
3. Micah Dew-Treadway (SOPH)

SDE: Isaac Rochell (SR)
2. Jonathan Bonner (JR)
3. Grant Blankenship (JR)

CB: Cole Luke (SR)
2. Shaun Crawford (SOPH)
3. Donte Vaughn (FR)

FS: Max Redfield (SR)
2. Prentice Mckinney (SOPH)
3. Devin Studstill (FR)

SS: Mykelti Williams (JR)
2. Prentice Mckinney (SOPH)
3. Jalen Elliot (FR)

CB: Nick Watkins (JR)
2. Devin Butler (SR)
3. Donte Vaughn (FR)

If you're wondering but Avery Sébastien or Drue Tranquil, it's my belief that Sébastien never gets a 6th year without all the defections, and Tranquil would be a 235lb SAM backer, in rotation with Onwualu.

You may ask "so what?".... Afterall, every team loses players to defection, for various reasons. Not this many. No good team is playing 10 freshman, on a regular basis, in their 2-deep on defense... Even Alabama, as good as they are and as well as they recruit, could not sustain that typeople of turnover combined with this much youth.. Look at the depth chart I posted above, when you factor in the linebackers, 18 of the 24 would be players in the 2-deep should have been upper classmen.

The other day I posted a thread about the majority of the teams with top 25 defenses this year and noted that nearly all of them have inferior recruiting when compared to ND... What those programs have done, however, is developed and retained a good majority of their talent. They didn't have 5/6 of their WDE's defect or retire due to injury... Here is some perspective... In less than two years ND lost the following DB's to injury, defection, suspension and graduation.

CB: KeiVarae Russell
CB: Shaun Crawford
CB: Devin Butler
S: Nicky Barratti
S: Max Redfield
S: Elijah Shumate
S: Prentice Mckinney
S: Mykelti Williams
S: Drue Tranquil (counting him because he's not a S)

That can't happen. You can't lose 9 defensive backs in 18 months, almost all of whom are upper classmen, and expect to play good defense... Especially not with the scheme ND was playing under BVG... Picture even what ND ran vs Syracuse, but with the personnel (or even half of them) that I listed, in place of the 9 freshman ND relied heavily on last Saturday. It's fair to say ND probably holds that team in the 20's and blows them out.

You have to recruit, develop, scheme AND retain players to remain consistently successful, particularly at a school whose formula for success on defense is going to be closer to the Michigan State, Stanford, TCU recent models, than the Alabama or Ohio State models.... flat out, in 2016 and moving forward, ND isn't out recruiting those schools. What needs to happen is ND takem advantage of getting really quality talent, and keeping those kids in school for 4 years, so you have veteran teams combating their teams facing annual early defections to the NFL.

Recruiting stops mattering when they get to campus. Winning is about putting them in position to succeed, developing them for that specific role and retainING as many possible players until their eligibility is exhausted or until the NFL comes calling.

 

[Grabaka]

Eddie Vanderdoes?

 

[IrishInOntario]

Eddie Vanderdoes?

Committed to ND on National Signing Day and was a 5 star defensive tackle. Was factored into the program because couldn't possibly go out an find a replacement, post signing day. Wound up getting out of his scholarship and going to UCLA... In my mind he falls into the same category as guys like Prentice Mckinney, who decommittted last minute because of academics and Sykes and Wallace, who signed, but never made it in to school.

 

[john0gaunt]

I've been saying this same thing, with much less data to back it up. Kelly needs to keep his players for all their years of eligibility. He needs to make clear to recruits that they are expected to remain for all 4 years. Or perhaps 5 if needed. If a player can't make that commitment to the team, they should move on. Leaving early for the NFL is letting down your team.

I'd rather have 3 stars play all 4 years, than have a 5 star play 2 and leave.

I watch the defense now and ask one question. Where's the beef?

 

[IrishInOntario]

I've been saying this same thing, with much less data to back it up. Kelly needs to keep his players for all their years of eligibility. He needs to make clear to recruits that they are expected to remain for all 4 years. Or perhaps 5 if needed. If a player can't make that commitment to the team, they should move on. Leaving early for the NFL is letting down your team.

I'd rather have 3 stars play all 4 years, than have a 5 star play 2 and leave.

I watch the defense now and ask one question. Where's the beef?

I think it's important to strike a balance.... Would you take 3 years of Jaylon Smith or Stephon Tuitt again? Of course you would. Every single time. ND is unlikely to ever have more than a couple of those caliber players on its defense at one time, however, you can afford to lose a couple to early departure for the NFL. He will have been a very good player for you, likely from day 1... At the same time, there are also always a couple spots in the 2-deep for true freshman and sophomores who are simply too good to keep off the field. Good programs require those guys to beat quality players ahead of them out, however, they don't simply have a spot waiting for them to be the savior in because of defection ahead of them.

NDnwon't often have more than a handful of 5th year players because of their 3.5 year track to complete their degree and the requirement that they be working toward further education while doing a 5th year, but ND dame well needs as many seniors and juniors as it can get... and let's face it. Look at that list. Some of those guys were expected to be key pieces to the position groups that you currently see struggling.

What that forces you into is the position ND finds itself in this year, where you have to save scholarships until the last minute and try to claw your way back in it for some elite players who may me able to help right away, to replace the players who should be developing nicely within the program. You have to try to trade sheer talent, for program development and that's tough at a school like ND.

ND has about 4 DB and 3 safeties on their board who I'D love to see them take, but in most instances, they are going to need a couple years to be ready... They'll likely miss on several of those players as they instead try to reel in the big fish that are important to turning this defense around immediately. It's a tough situation that should have never come to fruition, IMO.

 

[bizzybecknd]

Retention also pertains to the NFL- both Jaylon and Keivarie could have come back.

 

[tkirish]

In today's game , ND will never get elite defensive talent. Maybe one here or there , but that's it. They can and shlould get good to very good talent across the board on defense. The Irish defense doesn't necessarily have to be top 10. It would be great , but not a must. What they do need to be is at least top 50. The thing that people aren't talking about is Kelly's offense as it relates to his defense. His style of offense of "flag football" is not good for a defense that basically can't stop anyone. If my defense is a weak point, then I need to keep them off the field as much as possible. Is it any coincidence that Kelly's best year at ND was with an offense that worked the clock and a defense that was bend but don't break. Look at the stats. ND didn't light it up. They were mythotical on offense while the "D" led by Teo, kept point totals down by the opposition. I'd rather see ND win 20 to 17 than 48 to 45. Why? Because I believe they would have a better percentage of winning low scoring games than games that are shootouts. ND best teams always run and control the clock. Always. How many times on offense do we see them struggle to maintain drives because they can't make 3rd and 2. Every time they get inside the 20 it's a crap shoot if they get a TD. Sure, the offense can score on big plays. That's all well and good. But when the game is on the line, you need the offense, when they have the ball, to grind out some first downs. Kelly's teams rarely can do that. So , to me, if you are struggling on defense, it would make sense to have an offense that can eat up the clock while scoring TDs. The other team can't score unless they have the ball. Pretty simple, but true.

 

[perseverare]

Can you make a premise statement In the beginning.you include long lists within a long post? I think it may have been the 3rd sentence?

What the point? That is a lot of just names on 'lists', but what I do know, from watching actual games is the defense is getting curb stomped about every Sat for over 21/2 seasons; and that's even before considering the times the staffs' shooting themselves in the foot.

There are comings and goings happen on every team; not all commits work out as hoped. The % that make meaningful contributions is in the low 40%.

 

[Telx1]

IIO, interesting amount of detail, but not sure it supports any conclusion other than shit happens. Yes, the very elite programs can withstand this level of failed retention because they have so much talented depth. The reality is ND's defense has been among the worst in college football for essentially the entire time of BVG's tenure, which means we have achieved less with equal or greater talent than the great majority of these programs, regardless of these retention facts. An excellent defensive coordinator will help recruiting, and More importantly develop the talent we do recruit; and if we had this during BVG's tenure, we might be celebrating a NC at best, and a major bowl win at least.

 

[1Redrum]

While we lost all of these players the ones who are no longer at ND have been replaced by other pieces that are providing depth and or possibly starting at other positions. This needs to be taken into account as well.

 

[B&RND]

Key in the ability to fill a teams holes is JUCO players. When ND finds themselves thin at positions due to factors IIO outlines, if they could plug in ready to go JUCO's it would make a huge difference. Even the Alabama's of the world fill needs with JUCO players. That's how teams like Michigan State can field good defenses from lower rated recruiting classes.

 

[twalsh]

IHe needs to make clear to recruits that they are expected to remain for all 4 years. Or perhaps 5 if needed. If a player can't make that commitment to the team, they should move on. Leaving early for the NFL is letting down your team.

Oh yeah, that's going to work well with four and five star recruits.

 

[twalsh]

Key in the ability to fill a teams holes is JUCO players. When ND finds themselves thin at positions due to factors IIO outlines, if they could plug in ready to go JUCO's it would make a huge difference. Even the Alabama's of the world fill needs with JUCO players. That's how teams like Michigan State can field good defenses from lower rated recruiting classes.

Well that's not going to happen, so we better come up with another strategy.

 

[zonairish]

Thanks IIO. How do we retain some of these players

 

[IrishInOntario]

Here is the short version....

2012 defense...

Kapron Lewis-Moore (5th)- 4 star
Jamoris Slaughter (5th)- 4 star
Manti Te'o (SR)- 5 star
Dan Fox (SR)- 4 star
Carlo Calabrese (SR)- 4 star
Zeke Motta (SR)- 4 star
Lewis Nix (JR)- 4 star, top 100
Bennett Jackson (JR)- 4 star
Kona Schwenke (JR)- 3 star
Danny Spond (JR)- 4 star
Stephon Tuitt (SOPH)- 5 star
Ishaq Williams (SOPH)- 5 star
Ben Councell (SOPH)- 4 star, top 100
Matthias Farley (SOPH)- 3 star
Keivarae Russell (FR)- 4 star
Sheldon Day (FR)- 4 star, top 100

Look at the difference between that defense and the one ND fields now. First off, the majority of the contributors are upper classmen, who had 3-5 years to develop in the program. Secondly, ND recruited well and got those guys to stay around a while. That defense featured 3 five star players, and 3 additional top 100, high 4 stars... The sophomores that played did so because of talent, more so than out of absolute necessity. Instead of having 9 freshman playing, they had 2, and both Day and Russell were exceptional talents that ended up being first half of draft, NFL'ers.

Quality recruiting + fundamental development + retention of personnel. 10 seniors and juniors, most of whom were quality recruits.

 

[perseverare]

IIO

yesterday is done and gone, like a lot of those players; so, question for you:
do you think that with the departure of BVG and BK's more focused involvment with the defense
will also mean a more BK involvement in the defensive recruiting effort?

 

[cgvr]

IIO

yesterday is done and gone, like a lot of those players; so, question for you:
do you think that with the departure of BVG and BK's more focused involvment with the defense
will also mean a more BK involvement in the defensive recruiting effort?

Dear Lord above... when are folks going to get it into their heads that Mr Potato
Head is so far over his skis he has no clue what end is up.

gvsu is competitively twice removed from where he is now.... It's pathetic.

He barely outperformed his predecessor's WP there.... .76 to .73 and was crushed by his replacement .91...the current coach is running at 5-0 with a WP of .76.... Porky blows...

http://gvsulakers.com/schedule.aspx?path=football

Seriously, look at this NC resume'.... Barf.....
California-Davis
Wayne St. (MI)
Hillsdale (MI)
Michigan Tech
Northern Michigan
Saginaw Valley St. (MI)
Northwood (MI)
Mercyhurst (PA)
Indianapolis (IN)
Findlay (OH)
Long Island-CW Post (NY)
Indiana (PA)
Northern Colorado
Valdosta St. (GA)
California-Davis
Ferris St. (MI)
Wayne St. (MI)
Hillsdale (MI)
Michigan Tech
Northern Michigan
Saginaw Valley St. (MI)
Northwood (MI)
Mercyhurst (PA)
Indianapolis (IN)
Findlay (OH)
Bentley (MA)
Saginaw Valley St. (MI)
Texas A&M-Kingsville
North Dakota

 

[perseverare]

ok...your entitled to opinion, but the rest of us are just enjoying the forum for purpose of discussion...capiche?

an editorial about your 'porky' thoughts is not necessary to every idea; we can keep your thought in mind w/o re reading it every other post.

 

[cgvr]

ok...your entitled to opinion, but the rest of us are just enjoying the forum for purpose of discussion...capiche?

an editorial about your 'porky' thoughts is not necessary to every idea; we can keep your thought in mind w/o re reading it every other post.

Listen fraud board moderator, this forum is for open discussion about ND football. I just gave you an accurate accounting of Porky's tenure at GVSU relative to his predecessor and those that followed. The excuse making "crutches" being offered here are hollow attempts at throwing Mr Potato Head a life line.
ND deserves a hell of a lot better than he's got. He stinks and all the excuse making in the world won't change that absolute fact.

 

[zonairish]

Listen fraud board moderator, this forum is for open discussion about ND football. I just gave you an accurate accounting of Porky's tenure at GVSU relative to his predecessor and those that followed. The excuse making "crutches" being offered here are hollow attempts at throwing Mr Potato Head a life line.
ND deserves a hell of a lot better than he's got. He stinks and all the excuse making in the world won't change that absolute fact.

cvgr, curious what did you think of hiring of kelly

 

[Bodizephax]

We've been discussing Notre Dame's defense and whether recruiting, scheme, development, or more than likely, what percentage of each, has attributed to Notre Dame's poor defensive play. While there have been some misses in recruiting, the scheme has been lacking and development has been questionable at times, the one issue people don't seem to be discussing is personnel retention. For the most part, the best defenses across the country are the ones built full of upper classmen, who have had time to develop... I took some time out to evaluate the 2 components of retention, not including early departures for the NFL, which is in theory, a positive, not a negative. Therefore, I looked at transfers / academic casualties / dismissals, and players who retired for medical reasons...

When you factor in that ND is trying to compete for the playoffs with teams that will often out recruit them, retention of personnel is vital to ND's on field success. Look at how this turned out...

These players would be on the 2016 defensive roster this year...

S: Nicky Baratti (medical)- 5th year SR.
S: Max Redfield (dismissal)- SR.
WDE: Doug Randolph (medical)- SR.
DB: Devin Butler (Suspended)- SR.
DB: Rashad Kinlaw (dismissal)- SR.
LB: Michael Deeb (medical)- SR.
DT: Eddie Vanderdoes (never showed up)- SR.
LB: Nile Sykes (did not qualify)- JR.
DB: Nick Watkins (medical, out for season)- JR.
DB: Grant Blankenship (dismissal)- JR.
WDE: Kolin Hill (transfer)- JR.
WDE: Jhonathan Williams (transfer)- JR.
S: Mykelti Williams (transfer)- SOPH.
S: Prentice Mckinney (did not qualify)- SOPH.
CB: Shaun Crawford (medical, out for season)- SOPH.
WDE: Bo Wallace (did not qualify)- SOPH.
DT: Micah Dew-Treadway (medical, out for season)- SOPH

Injuries happen, there is nothing you can do about that in most instances. However, if you look at ND's major issues, DE play and DB play and look at how many defections they have had from guys that they were counting on, it's not hard to see how some recruiting misses and poor scheme and lack of fundamental development can be greatly excaserbated by defection. It's further compounded when you look at how many would be upper classmen it has cost ND.

As coaches, we teach in the now, but we have to project down the road as well, in order to fill recruiting needs, anticipate scheme and personnel developments and predict depth charts... ND has had insanely high turnover for a school that traditionally hasn't lost a great deal of students to academic casualty, despite tougher than normal academics, and that is manifesting itself this year (and ladt year to an extent) as ND's starting group and depth chart has been stripped of would be, developed talent.

Here is a mock idea of what ND's 3-deep on its defensive line and in its secondary should have looked like coming into this season, obviously before injuries could add up as well.

WDE: Jay Hayes (JR)
2. Kolin Hill (JR) or Bo Wallace (SOPH)
3. Andrew Trumbetti (JR)

DT: Eddie Vanderdoes (SR)
2. Jerry Tillery (SOPH)
3. Isaac Rochell (SR)

NG: Jarron Jones (5TH)
2. Daniel Cage (JR)
3. Micah Dew-Treadway (SOPH)

SDE: Isaac Rochell (SR)
2. Jonathan Bonner (JR)
3. Grant Blankenship (JR)

CB: Cole Luke (SR)
2. Shaun Crawford (SOPH)
3. Donte Vaughn (FR)

FS: Max Redfield (SR)
2. Prentice Mckinney (SOPH)
3. Devin Studstill (FR)

SS: Mykelti Williams (JR)
2. Prentice Mckinney (SOPH)
3. Jalen Elliot (FR)

CB: Nick Watkins (JR)
2. Devin Butler (SR)
3. Donte Vaughn (FR)

If you're wondering but Avery Sébastien or Drue Tranquil, it's my belief that Sébastien never gets a 6th year without all the defections, and Tranquil would be a 235lb SAM backer, in rotation with Onwualu.

You may ask "so what?".... Afterall, every team loses players to defection, for various reasons. Not this many. No good team is playing 10 freshman, on a regular basis, in their 2-deep on defense... Even Alabama, as good as they are and as well as they recruit, could not sustain that typeople of turnover combined with this much youth.. Look at the depth chart I posted above, when you factor in the linebackers, 18 of the 24 would be players in the 2-deep should have been upper classmen.

The other day I posted a thread about the majority of the teams with top 25 defenses this year and noted that nearly all of them have inferior recruiting when compared to ND... What those programs have done, however, is developed and retained a good majority of their talent. They didn't have 5/6 of their WDE's defect or retire due to injury... Here is some perspective... In less than two years ND lost the following DB's to injury, defection, suspension and graduation.

CB: KeiVarae Russell
CB: Shaun Crawford
CB: Devin Butler
S: Nicky Barratti
S: Max Redfield
S: Elijah Shumate
S: Prentice Mckinney
S: Mykelti Williams
S: Drue Tranquil (counting him because he's not a S)

That can't happen. You can't lose 9 defensive backs in 18 months, almost all of whom are upper classmen, and expect to play good defense... Especially not with the scheme ND was playing under BVG... Picture even what ND ran vs Syracuse, but with the personnel (or even half of them) that I listed, in place of the 9 freshman ND relied heavily on last Saturday. It's fair to say ND probably holds that team in the 20's and blows them out.

You have to recruit, develop, scheme AND retain players to remain consistently successful, particularly at a school whose formula for success on defense is going to be closer to the Michigan State, Stanford, TCU recent models, than the Alabama or Ohio State models.... flat out, in 2016 and moving forward, ND isn't out recruiting those schools. What needs to happen is ND takem advantage of getting really quality talent, and keeping those kids in school for 4 years, so you have veteran teams combating their teams facing annual early defections to the NFL.

Recruiting stops mattering when they get to campus. Winning is about putting them in position to succeed, developing them for that specific role and retainING as many possible players until their eligibility is exhausted or until the NFL comes calling.

My suggestion is to just get even better offensive players and average 50 points a game like the old Oregon teams !!!

 

[zonairish]

My suggestion is to just get even better offensive players and average 50 points a game like the old Oregon teams !!!

you will games but you won't win a nat'l championship

 

[Bodizephax]

you will games but you won't win a nat'l championship

Build it and they will come !!

 

[Bodizephax]

Here is the short version....

2012 defense...

Kapron Lewis-Moore (5th)- 4 star
Jamoris Slaughter (5th)- 4 star
Manti Te'o (SR)- 5 star
Dan Fox (SR)- 4 star
Carlo Calabrese (SR)- 4 star
Zeke Motta (SR)- 4 star
Lewis Nix (JR)- 4 star, top 100
Bennett Jackson (JR)- 4 star
Kona Schwenke (JR)- 3 star
Danny Spond (JR)- 4 star
Stephon Tuitt (SOPH)- 5 star
Ishaq Williams (SOPH)- 5 star
Ben Councell (SOPH)- 4 star, top 100
Matthias Farley (SOPH)- 3 star
Keivarae Russell (FR)- 4 star
Sheldon Day (FR)- 4 star, top 100

Look at the difference between that defense and the one ND fields now. First off, the majority of the contributors are upper classmen, who had 3-5 years to develop in the program. Secondly, ND recruited well and got those guys to stay around a while. That defense featured 3 five star players, and 3 additional top 100, high 4 stars... The sophomores that played did so because of talent, more so than out of absolute necessity. Instead of having 9 freshman playing, they had 2, and both Day and Russell were exceptional talents that ended up being first half of draft, NFL'ers.

Quality recruiting + fundamental development + retention of personnel. 10 seniors and juniors, most of whom were quality recruits.

I miss the days when everyone would bitch about Carlo and Dan Fox being too slow. They made plays !

 

[Bodizephax]

ok...your entitled to opinion, but the rest of us are just enjoying the forum for purpose of discussion...capiche?

an editorial about your 'porky' thoughts is not necessary to every idea; we can keep your thought in mind w/o re reading it every other post.

Send him to the cornfield where he belongs, Purse !!

 

[cgvr]

cvgr, curious what did you think of hiring of kelly

I thought we hired a merc. not good..... PS I also posted that "the rat"/others should have told him to keep walking the minute "Eagles" came out of his mouth.

 

[zonairish]

I thought we hired a merc. not good..... PS I also posted that "the rat"/others should have told him to keep walking the minute "Eagles" came out of his mouth.

Being from Philly I thought the eagles got the wrong Kelly at that time

 

[cgvr]

Being from Philly I thought the eagles got the wrong Kelly at that time

They're off to a good start. Santa is safe for now.

 

[Pennick44]

Listen fraud board moderator, this forum is for open discussion about ND football. I just gave you an accurate accounting of Porky's tenure at GVSU relative to his predecessor and those that followed. The excuse making "crutches" being offered here are hollow attempts at throwing Mr Potato Head a life line.
ND deserves a hell of a lot better than he's got. He stinks and all the excuse making in the world won't change that absolute fact.

The two of you should join fema and head to FLA. Neither one of you will feel the effects of the wind because it can blow right through the vacancy between your ears.

 

[Granite45]

I've been saying this same thing, with much less data to back it up. Kelly needs to keep his players for all their years of eligibility.

It is not like Kelly can keep them prisoners.

ND is one of the few institutions that commits to a 4 year scholarship, beyond the year to year enforced at many places.

 

[cgvr]

The two of you should join fema and head to FLA. Neither one of you will feel the effects of the wind because it can blow right through the vacancy between your ears.

Didn't you use that one already?

 

[zonairish]

Didn't you use that one already?

You are so much better at this. It almost unfair to pennick-

 

[Pennick44]

You are so much better at this. It almost unfair to pennick-

Did I porky? El stinko

 

[Bodizephax]

You are so much better at this. It almost unfair to pennick-

cgvr caught Charlie Weis sleeping in his office one day and he stuck his finger in Charlies belly button, pulled out some belly button lint, and sniffed it.

 

[Pennick44]

cgvr caught Charlie Weis sleeping in his office one day and he stuck his finger in Charlies belly button, pulled out some belly button lint, and sniffed it.

He also ate all of Charlie's double stuff oreos.

 

[cgvr]

cgvr caught Charlie Weis sleeping in his office one day and he stuck his finger in Charlies belly button, pulled out some belly button lint, and sniffed it.

weis was fat and smelled like an old sneaker. When they did his lap band surgery they pulled out a license plate....

 

[cgvr]

He also ate all of Charlie's double stuff oreos.

I have already told you that he craved Peanut M&M's. In order for coaches to get a word in they showed up at his office with bags of food Doritos, Cheetohs....(usually family size if they needed 15 mins to 1/2 hour)
Once a bag was open fats couldn't stop until it was gone....

 

[Pennick44]

I have already told you that he craved Peanut M&M's. In order for coaches to get a word in they showed up at his office with bags of food Doritos, Cheetohs....(usually family size if they needed 15 mins to 1/2 hour)
Once a bag was open fats couldn't stop until it was gone....

Had the Ford 350 been digested yet?

 

[cgvr]

Had the Ford 350 been digested yet?

650
Yes. Polian thinks it was stolen.

 

[Pennick44]

650
Yes. Polian thinks it was stolen.

Andy Reid never received his 12 case order of Hostess Twinkles. Mystery solved.