OT: Make a case why this can't work in our county
- Thread starter Quest4Twelve
- Start date
Interesting you want to bring studies that are non related to the subject.
What are the studies that brought the state of California to the junkie/ homeless chaos situation it is now to where that state is ranked 50th in the quality of life
Such a beautiful state gone to crap with Democratic policies
That's a bit disingenuous of course the left wants to dismantle the Second Amendment.
What you try to use logic and lack of knowledge and emotion suffice. 39 times this kid was reported and nothing was done.
Morning DIP. Born and raised and retired in California, and the current state of affairs just suck. Very fortunate to live in a part of the Sierra foothills where being a California conservative is not an ugly term, and where most have personal stories of entrepreneurial success, and conservative values, etc... The narrative that only the rich have a good quality of life is somewhat BS, but certainly more the case along coastal cities than the inland valley and foothills. I see the same stories you refer to and the tent blocks in downtown LA that have ruined the value of commercial properties in the immediate vicinity, and it seems like a different world or State, as that is 500 miles from where we live. Closer to home, we have friends who have young adult children all graduated from college and who are thriving in San Francisco as the City is becoming a haven for high tech firms and small start ups pop up on a regular basis. Area that were blighted with burned out hippy wannabes and morphed into residential areas for these young professionals, which has spawned new service businesses in the area as well. Hardly the needle infested area showed on TV by Fox, although those areas still exist. I can go on, but the point is that California is one hell of a paradox. We have more poor people and a higher percentage of poor people than any other State, largely
driven by our friendly immigration policies which facilitates cheap labor and keeps wages for all lower level jobs depressed; while we also have a tremendous technology driven economy that pays exceptional salaries and has created a huge gap between the lower wage population and the high wage population. Unfortunately, our liberal politicians that literally run the State all march to the mantra of higher taxes on these higher wages and more government programs to provide care and assistance to the lower wage folks, without any thought to their policies contributing to the problem in the first place. My wife and I are so fed up with the politics of the State that we are starting to talk about moving and exploring options, although we hate the thought of leaving the beautiful community we live in.
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Telx,
Move to Arizona ! We have beautiful mountains and foothills here. As I write
This post, Iam looking out the window at my unobstructive view of the Superstition
Mountain.
I believe our tax levels are a lot lower than California as well. Being a New York
And New Jersey Guy, I really miss the ocean and the great beaches !
That drawback aside, the only other negative is the steady influx of Liberals
From the entire West Coast, who run from the Liberal politics to enjoy our lower
Taxes, then vote for the same Liberal politicians that advocate the same high
Tax and the same destructive political philosophy that ruined the states that they left.
Liberals are a very interesting self destruct group !
If we are not already a Swing State, we are getting close !
Move to Arizona ! We have beautiful mountains and foothills here. As I write
This post, Iam looking out the window at my unobstructive view of the Superstition
Mountain.
I believe our tax levels are a lot lower than California as well. Being a New York
And New Jersey Guy, I really miss the ocean and the great beaches !
That drawback aside, the only other negative is the steady influx of Liberals
From the entire West Coast, who run from the Liberal politics to enjoy our lower
Taxes, then vote for the same Liberal politicians that advocate the same high
Tax and the same destructive political philosophy that ruined the states that they left.
Liberals are a very interesting self destruct group !
If we are not already a Swing State, we are getting close !
Rgc7...Arizona is on the top of our list. Our son is married and both have professional careers in California, and we want to be close enough to visit easily. My wife has a condition where she is sensitive to cold, so Nevada is out. Would love to get your thoughts on specific areas to explore. We absolutely want views of the mountains, the more dramatic the better. Been doing some internet searching and the areas North of Phoenix seem attractive. Looking forward to your reply, and that of any others who live and love Arizona!
Telx,
We lived originally North of Phoenix, but once we got settled in there, we explored just about all the
Outskirts of Phoenix. The North has some nice mountain areas, but the higher the altitude, the colder the weather and even quite a bit of snow as well as isolation from airports.
We live about 30 miles East of Phoenix in Gold Canyon, right in the foothills of the Superstition Mountain for our Nothern view, Dinasaur Mountain on our Western side view, and Rattle Smake Mountain
On the Eastern side of us. Very pretty and very convenient to everything.
There are lots of developments with prices ranging from the $300,000 to multimillion. We live in
A very small community call Pasion de la Colina del Cascabel. The community has about 35 custom homes
Ranging from the high $500,000 ( none that I see for sale ) to the 1,000,000 plus. Right now there are one to two of those available. There are also some other developments here starting in the $1,000,000 range
And going upward to The high multimillion range.
There are some building lots that range from about 1/2 acre up to an acre plus. Since we want lots of space and privacy , we ( at least our current HOA , of which I am a member ) insist on following our CCR’s
Which require that new homes must contain all buildings within a building envelope.
So before anyone buys a lot, we advise that they make sure the building envelope Is large enough
To contain the size home that they are planning to build. While previous Board Members were rather lax,
Favoring one neighbor at the expense of another, the current Board will enforce or CCR,s to the letter.
We feel that is the only way to protect all homeowners and maintain the open spaces that
People moved in here in the first place.
One other advantage of the Gold Canyon area is that Sky Harbor Air port is only about 40 minutes away, local shopping, strip malls, etc are all within 20 minutes.
Tucson is also very pretty, and Zona could give you more info on that city. Weather is always
Nice, warm, and sunny with few exceptions.
My daughter is the head planner for a town called Paradise Valley, homes of the rich and famous,
Paradise Valley borders on Scotsdale very rich as well, but Scottsdale is very large, as well as very expensive.
If you need any more info just ask me.
We lived originally North of Phoenix, but once we got settled in there, we explored just about all the
Outskirts of Phoenix. The North has some nice mountain areas, but the higher the altitude, the colder the weather and even quite a bit of snow as well as isolation from airports.
We live about 30 miles East of Phoenix in Gold Canyon, right in the foothills of the Superstition Mountain for our Nothern view, Dinasaur Mountain on our Western side view, and Rattle Smake Mountain
On the Eastern side of us. Very pretty and very convenient to everything.
There are lots of developments with prices ranging from the $300,000 to multimillion. We live in
A very small community call Pasion de la Colina del Cascabel. The community has about 35 custom homes
Ranging from the high $500,000 ( none that I see for sale ) to the 1,000,000 plus. Right now there are one to two of those available. There are also some other developments here starting in the $1,000,000 range
And going upward to The high multimillion range.
There are some building lots that range from about 1/2 acre up to an acre plus. Since we want lots of space and privacy , we ( at least our current HOA , of which I am a member ) insist on following our CCR’s
Which require that new homes must contain all buildings within a building envelope.
So before anyone buys a lot, we advise that they make sure the building envelope Is large enough
To contain the size home that they are planning to build. While previous Board Members were rather lax,
Favoring one neighbor at the expense of another, the current Board will enforce or CCR,s to the letter.
We feel that is the only way to protect all homeowners and maintain the open spaces that
People moved in here in the first place.
One other advantage of the Gold Canyon area is that Sky Harbor Air port is only about 40 minutes away, local shopping, strip malls, etc are all within 20 minutes.
Tucson is also very pretty, and Zona could give you more info on that city. Weather is always
Nice, warm, and sunny with few exceptions.
My daughter is the head planner for a town called Paradise Valley, homes of the rich and famous,
Paradise Valley borders on Scotsdale very rich as well, but Scottsdale is very large, as well as very expensive.
If you need any more info just ask me.
Rgc7....thanks for taking the time to provide such a thoughtful response. Lots of good info and helps orient us to Phoenix. Yea, we have a two acre lot with lots of trees, huge boulders, and a golf course that gives us the feel of five acres. Appreciate the comment about privacy and the importance of views, etc....
I fully expect to have more questions once we decide if we are serious about making a move, and I will take you up on your offer.
I fully expect to have more questions once we decide if we are serious about making a move, and I will take you up on your offer.
Good afternoon brother,
I lived in San Diego (Duty Station Coronado), Purchased a house in the 80's in Orange Co (Yorba Linda) While I was stationed in Camp Pendleton because want to retire there. I lived there a total of 12 years so I have an idea of the changes
My wife was born and raised in Tarzana. When here mom passed away 2010 here 1,100 sq ft home with a very small yard sold for 550,000.$........WOW
That's when I realized the middle class was being squeezed out.
When we went to the 2016 Game against SC we stayed in Anaheim with my wife sister and seen the homeless row there. They were, and still are feeling they have no voice My niece, and nephews have to stay in their yards to play....period I never had that restriction in my childhood. 55'000 homeless in LA alone
I loved my time in Cali, but with Silicon Valley having all the money, and lock conservative thinking out w/o any restraint, with University of California Board of Regents considering policies restraining free speech, going after the second amendment and the influx of the very poor i (illegal immigrates who have no desire to assimilate ) in extremely large number, and then relax the drug laws to the point of havoc all brought on by democratic leadership
Think about that for a minute the first two amendments under attack
Now you have Mayors crying about want to protect citizens but let homeless squat anywhere they want...live anywhere they want(except in their neighborhoods), and not let federal officers picking up criminals in jail, not to mention warning those criminal not yet apprehended(I guess you forgot to mention that)
You should listen to what Victor Hanson on the Calexit. Very interesting comments especially that most of the natural resources are in the red part of the state, and the flight of the middle-class
A paradox you say?
Have fun in Arizona if you end up there RGC will not steer you wrong.
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. Crime per capita is way down from 30 years ago. If your sister is keeping her kids in the yard it is due to false impressions, which of course the media perpetuates by breathlessly reporting every incident.
And this is how these impressions are spread. Your sister tells you, and you repeat it on Blue and Gold, and other conservatives lap it up because it is consistent with their world view that everything is going to hell, and they spread it further on social media, and nobody bothers to check and see if crime statistics actually support these impressions.
You said yourself that you would play outside your yard when you were a kid, when crime statistics were actually worse! Tell your sister to let your poor nephew and niece have a little freedom, because she is being manipulated by the media, with her fear of crime based on false notions.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/
First I grew up in Alaska
Second it not just my sister in law told me its others from California and how much the state has changed for the worst. While are CPAC not only did I listen to those from California I watch the video they recorded in their neighborhoods and surrounding areas.
It's fine you don't see it that way, but don't for a minute believe your opinion is the only opinion.
From what I've seen on your opinions in regards to this you support the policies that have created your state to
become what it has become as middle-class fleas and is only replaced with the ignorant of the laws of this republic and it's constitution. You might not even care of the consequences of such a flight of class of people because from what I see you just going to import cheap labor and foreigners to keep the tech industry booming, a tech industry and a state government working hand-in-hand to undermine the Constitution.
They seen what Barack Obama got away with weaponizing the IRS and the justice department.
Saul Alinsky has taken hold in acadamia in California
On a party note I do respect you as a poster for the manor that you approach a discussion and to prove your point
For the people who do leave coastal California, there is a very simple reason for it: housing prices are very high. Why are they high? It's a simple matter of supply and demand--the demand is great, and the supply cannot keep up with it. Why is the demand so high? Because, by and large, it is a great place to live. It is a beautiful place with possibly the best weather in the world. California may not be your cup of tea, because you don't like the state's politics, but obviously a lot of people don't mind that, because housing prices just keep going up. They wouldn't do that if the demand wasn't there.
Think about it. If California was the cesspool that you and others on this site have described it as, the housing prices would sink like a rock. Instead, they just keep going up, at least in coastal California. The Central Valley and other inland areas are hot and far from the ocean, so housing prices there are generally like the rest of the country. People can find affordable housing there if they don't mind the higher temperatures. But again, it is the demand for living in the coastal areas that makes it unaffordable for many, not the politics of the state.
As for what your sister-in-law told you, and some videos you've seen, doesn't it give you pause that the FBI statistics on crime don't back up this perception at all?
Some of it is natural supply&demand but other ways it is inequitable choices made to benefit a small minority of individuals. I see plenty of empty land that could be developed into well planned communities with houses affordable to young families. But someone's view would be less scenic so ****'em.
Foreign investment in the housing market keeps the prices high, but helll if someone want to purchase an 800 square foot home in Sunnydale California for 2 million dollars more power to them.
I notice you have nothing to say about the middle class leaving with no replacements and the vicious cycle of the have not outnumbering will take form.
Listen to Victor Hanson
Of course the crime numbers are down because certain things that were crimes are no longer crimes
One more thing California isn't all that. I would rather live in a state where my liberties are not smothered for a little false sense of security. California.
California is ranked in the top 15 of violant crime
I don't know about the rest of the state, but I live in Irvine, in Orange County. Relatively flat, arable land in Orange County is all but gone. Just about all that is left is grinding down the mountains. Any future development in Orange County will have to be up, as in high rises. Very little space left for single family developments.
I'm not happy about it, but what is the solution? The market dictates the housing prices. You have an ever growing population and a limited amount of land. You want government to impose price controls? Not a very conservative approach, I must say.
As I alluded to in my earlier post, the next phase of development will have to be up in the form of multi-family high rises, not more single family dwellings.
I assumed from your avatar you meant the Bay Area
I went to Stanford but live in SoCal now.
I don't want government to impose anything. I'm just pointing out all that will be left in California are the rich that will be out numbered by the very poor 10 fold.
It's a situation the state created. Bringing in countless unskilled manual laborers to work for pennies on the dollar destroyed the middle class more than housing did though it goes hand-in-hand.
The market does dictate housing prices but the government dictates legal immigration why is it the housing market worked but the state disregarded legal immigration and stopped enforcing it causing illegal competition in the work force,
giving the illegal community more protections than its legal citizens?
There are all sorts of crazy state laws in Cali
Let me give you an example
I returned a backpack the North face to have a zipper put on as per their lifetime warranty, and evan though l cleaned the backpack they sent it back to me with a note telling me that the bag wasn't clean enough to meet California's standards according to their state laws..... I then called them up and asked him to explain to me what California clean was and they did not have an answer so I took spray and wash(again) to the outside of the bag and cleaned it, and mailed it off......True story. I just want them to put another zipper on it.
Now if my bag was returned I can't imagine how many more bags North face sends back to have cleaned and then they pay for the shipping for the return and expedite fixing it.
This is just a small example of one of the most strangest and strictest laws pasted by a state.
.
People living on top of people...... brilliant!
Is there anything more pleasant than neighbors stuck on both side of you underneath you and on top of you?
Minimum wage immigrants don't affect the middle class because minimum wage jobs aren't middle class jobs. Not to mention most immigrants, unless they are H-1bs, do jobs (agricultural work, maid service, the gardening trade) that Americans don't want. So immigration (which BTW is governed by federal law, not state policy), is not a significant factor in the erosion (if that is even the right word) of the middle class in California. The middle class population which leaves coastal California does so because they can't afford the housing prices. And they can't afford the housing because of market forces (too little housing stock for the huge demand of housing in the coastal areas).
You are right about one thing: foreign investors are a factor in the rise of housing prices. But that is just a function of the fact savvy investors can recognize that coastal California real estate is finite, and thus a great investment over time. Again though, it is simply the market at work, something that conservatives usually support.
Not true they drive down the wages of lower playing jobs making ghe assent to middle class harder. This is like saying middle class wages don't effect the underclasses because they are middle class job and upper class job don't effect...etc. The economy integrated. Amercian ofter don't want the jobs because they pay poorly. The flow of illegals keep the wages down.
That isn't my impression. Americans will do some minimum wage jobs (office work, etc.), but they won't work as maids or gardeners. As for fruit picking or other agricultural wage labor, forget it. Immigrants aren't taking those jobs from Americans, because Americans don't want them, even at higher wages.
"Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job"
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/
Some of the most expensive residential real estate in the world is just that. Location location location.
And what's the ticket on that puppy?Some of the most expensive residential real estate in the world is just that. Location location location.
They are short changing construction companies/plumbers/ect
I seen this happening first-hand in Florida and they don't even have to apply to the same safety restraints companies do
Suggesting that illegal immigration only impacts farm labor wages In Calif was accurate twenty years ago, but not so much today. We built our home nine years ago, and the tradesmen that did the rock work, the tile work and the plaster work were largely illegals, as shared with me by our general contractor. His position being that he can’t compete on price without using illegals because all the contractors are using them. A friends son does cement work for residential and commercial properties, and he uses all illegals as workers and Spanish speaking legals for supervisors. With all the government regulations and added fees associated with construction is California, using illegal labor is their best option for keeping prices down, even though prices are increasingly beyond the reach of the middle class, even in the valley and foothills. It is beyond dispute that illegal labor depresses wages and impacts everyone at some level in an integrated economy. The cost dynamic of housing in California is absolutely in part a reflection of supply and demand, but the economy and the economic forces at play are a hell of a lot more complicated than that alone, and the same is true as to the impact of using illegal labor. Government regulation that makes it extremely time consuming and expensive to do damn near anything as an owner or employer or developer, etc... have tremendous implications for cost and wages in our integrated economy.
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