OT: Make a case why this can't work in our county
- Thread starter Quest4Twelve
- Start date
Hum my first guess is it goes against the second amendment.
Australia is a democracy
The United States of America is a republic
fact check org is the same one funded by the clinton foundation that you seem to use as a gospel of truthfulness. also fact check was funded by soros groups which fact check org fact checked and said it was untrue. you have no credibility and neither does fact check
so anybody that has a left wing point of view can provide an opinion
Ok zona, I'll bite to your ridiculous reply. Don't like the facts find "alternate" facts that suit your narrative.
How does the Second Amendment jibe with Article 2, Section 8 of the Constitution: Duties of Congress?
Listen brother we agree on alot of things more than not, but I was raised on the idea of this country being a republic. That's not just talking point it's how I was raised and in a Republic the country is governed by its Constitution not the population
911 changed how airports do their business.
Our school system will need to as well .
The maniac killed more people with 2 hand guns at the Virginia Tech incident than this nut job did.
I encourage all Americans to listen to Emma Gonzales' speech. This was a Rosa Parks moment for America and the movement to protect our kindergarteners, or school kids and our cops. I am a supporter of the second amendment but believe the framers would not have included assault rifles and given just how crowded our once spacious country has become might have included some rules of ownership (like the rules for voting they included.) Jefferson once said the constitution should be thrown our and rewritten every generation. While I tend to like what Madison and Hamilton came up with and the amendments that followed (thanks again James for the first 10), I do think it should be a living, breathing document. Mostly I don't believe American are sicker, more mentally unstable or meaner than Australians or Europeans. They just have stricter gun laws. Why is it such a bad idea to ban assault rifles and ask our citizens who own guns to take a test or a class to insure they understand how to operate a gun safely (we do that for cars, for certain professions, etc.) We're talking about our kids here and don't tell me teachers should have guns. I'm a teacher and I would not trust myself shooting it out with a guy brandishing an assault rifle in a crowded classroom. Finally, this is a football website and I want to send my condolences to the family of Aaron Feis, Assistant Football Coach and HERO, who pushed students away and got into the line of fire to save them. Check out the guy's photo. Asshole shooter would be toast if he was carrying a knife or even a handgun. Don't want to piss conservatives off, just think it is time for a discussion. Thanks for bearing with me.
It's interesting that someone here believe 19 year olds should not possess semi-automatic weapons yet we need to take their voices during a tragedy as a Rosa Park moment?
Sorry I wasn't feeling a Rosa Park moment there
If our framers were facing assault rifles then yes they would have included asult rifes.
Jefferson was over ruled and the the Constitution is a set document, because the forefathers had the foresight to know if you start deteriorating 1 Amendment then all amendments will be subject included the First Amendment.
Don't get me wrong I like Jefferson, but Madison was just as genius
I know you are aware that the nut job that did the massacre at Virginia Tech used two hand guns killing over twice as many.
I like the idea of safety training for gun ownership it's something we did when we were children.
If we're putting an age limit on who can purchase a firearm then shouldn't the age limit to voting be raised as well because because they vote could be more dangerous than a bullet
For me it's odd that a person has never had gun safety training in their youth.
As far as teachers having firearms do you believe that since you are uncomfortable with it all teachers will be uncomfortable with it?
The schools will have to have armed security guards. There are plenty train certified young peopl coming out of the military will be qualified for this job.
It's interesting that you stated this is becoming an even more crowded country such as why immigration legal immigration is even just as important at the gun laws.
Pandora's box has been opened. there are no telling how many semi automatic weapons in this country. If you ban them you unfortunately will not accomplish your goal of making the country safer. The only people that will obey the ban are people that abide by the law. These people aren't the problem. There are many things that can be done to limit, not eliminate, gun violence. I won't get into a litany of ideas because this is a sports site. I will say that having the debate is a good first step.
DIP, my Yates-loving friend. This country is a country of immigrants you know that. They treated us Irish like that 100 years ago. But back to guns. Look, assault rifles are for the military. I have an idea -- let people have them but they have to stay locked up at gun clubs. People who want to fire them can go to the local club. When the zombie apocalypse comes they can access them. We agree on gun training! That is a start, good, let the politicians start there. I'm sorry, DIP, but carrying an assault weapon is different than exercising your first amendment right to free speech. As far as armed security guards, do you really want all of that in school. And I've polled my fellow professors at USC and none of them wants to bring a gun into the classroom. C'mon this is the NRA selling guns. The founding fathers were worried that we were vulnerable as a new nation, our army was pretty weak in 1787 (if it weren't for George Washington's brilliant guerrilla tactics to extend the fight we'd be speaking like Hugh Grant!) Now we have by far the most prepared military in the world -- we spend more than ever other nation combined. I'll end with this quote from one of my heroes Kurt Vonnegut:
“I only wish the NRA and its jellyfishy, well-paid supporters in legislatures both State and Federal would be careful to recite the whole of it [the Second Amendment] and then tell us how a heavily armed man, woman, or child, recruited by no official, led by no official, given no goals by any official, motivated or restrained only by his or her personality and perceptions of what is going on, can be considered a member of a well-regulated militia.”
“I only wish the NRA and its jellyfishy, well-paid supporters in legislatures both State and Federal would be careful to recite the whole of it [the Second Amendment] and then tell us how a heavily armed man, woman, or child, recruited by no official, led by no official, given no goals by any official, motivated or restrained only by his or her personality and perceptions of what is going on, can be considered a member of a well-regulated militia.”
But in 1999 Australia made the move towards gun control and it worked. We have to start somewhere. Gun buy backs. And make the laws clear. If you have an assault weapon you go to jail. Boom.
Last edited:
I think most of you people don't realize there is no such thing as an assault rifle. There are some like the semi automatic AR 15 or the M-16 which I used in Vietnam which is used both ways.
I hate guns I haven't touched one since I got out of the Marine Corps,but that does not change the fact that guns are a protected right under our Constitution.
I hate guns I haven't touched one since I got out of the Marine Corps,but that does not change the fact that guns are a protected right under our Constitution.
You do understand the second amendment is to protect free people from the government and the military it controls.
The second amendment ensure the unbridled concept of the first amendment.
You can not have one without the other.
and now we've seen how the previous administration weaponize the IRS and the FBI. Pretty scary stuff
The NRA is your strawman I get it
The NRA has been promoting gun safety and Security for decades.
I'm here at CPAC, and the conversation of gun control is what most are talking about, and yes there are strong conversations on how to move forward in a positive way within the frame of the Second Amendment for better gun control
911 changed how Airports do business...do you believe all airport employees agreed with the changes?
Banning assault rifles do nothing to control a bad person with a gun, only a good person with a gun fights that.
Keeping your fire arms at a club only makes it easier for the government to confiscate them
AS far as imigration we are supposed to be a nation a legal immigration were you are required to learn of America and its values and what your responsibilities are being an American before you become an American
Now you just get this illegal flood where they don't even care to simulate
As far as the way they treated the Irish I've only read, but being Jews(ethnic wise not religious) my family line had their own obstacles.
Last edited:
Pretty clearly (I think you mean article 1). The Constitution is designed to limit the power of government. Absent a protected activity congress can utilize it's "poling power" to enact laws with any rational basis. As to protect activities such as speech, assemble, religion or the right to arms congress can only act when it has a compelling state interest and any approach must be limited to the greatest extent possible. Any such acts are review with the strictest scrutiny. As example would be to temporary limit disclosure of troop movements in time of war.
As to Australia it has no second amendment so when ti confiscated its citizen arms there was no legal impediment.
Last edited:
Maybe but there was an assault weapon ban in 1994 which, as part of it provisions, required a DOJ study. The study concluded that the measure saved no lives.
To me this has always been simple...
Americans are obsessed with guns and predictably there are gun related deaths in America as a result. I think we would all be perplexingly naiive, bordering on ignorant to think there could be some 300 million guns (a tool designed for killing) in the United States and that it wouldn't result in tragic, but predictable murders as a consequence.
I don't believe that Americans are any more violent, hateful or angry than anyone else. Y'all simply have easier access than most of us to the most sucessful killing tool humans have ever created.
I'm certainly saddened when a school full of kids gets shot up, but it's nothing of a surprise.
Americans are obsessed with guns and predictably there are gun related deaths in America as a result. I think we would all be perplexingly naiive, bordering on ignorant to think there could be some 300 million guns (a tool designed for killing) in the United States and that it wouldn't result in tragic, but predictable murders as a consequence.
I don't believe that Americans are any more violent, hateful or angry than anyone else. Y'all simply have easier access than most of us to the most sucessful killing tool humans have ever created.
I'm certainly saddened when a school full of kids gets shot up, but it's nothing of a surprise.
It's not a one size fits all label. Being a responsible gun owner does not make you obsessed
It's no different than the fast food obssession and it's obvious connection to obesity. Sometimes the answer is right there in front of you.
While you're 100% accurate in suggesting that anecdotally, a "one size fits all" label should not be placed on all gun owners (I own a number of hunting rifles and have two military issued firearms at my disposal and have no intention of using them for evil), it doesn't change the fact that America has a gun culture like no other country on the planet... And, therefore, has gun related deaths as a consequence. The same way a country obssessed with soft drinks and fast food will inevitably succumb to a diabetes and obesity epidemic.
I have no desire for anyone to take your guns away. I'm not suggesting your constitutional rights be infringed upon... I'd simply like to see Americans stop acting shocked, surprised or dismayed when mass shootings like the one in Florida happen. Hell, a rough weekend in Chicago might even dwarf that in terms of handgun violence. In the real world you don't get to participate in a high risk enviroment (a country with 300 million guns in the hands of civilians) with some of the most lax guns laws in the developed world and not expect casulties as a consequence.
If drinking and driving was legal, would we not be foolish to think it wouldn't ramp up the death toll related to drunk drivers?
I genuinely believe the wrong discussion is being had in the United States. The United States is a republic which guarantees its citizens the right to bear arms, except for in specific scenarios. In a globalized world, people are free to apply for citizenship to any country who will have them. If people feel that it's in the best interest of their family to move to a country with far more strict guns laws and far less gun violence as a consequence, start writing up your applications. You have plenty of options of fine countries to choose from. Just be aware that those countries will have their own issues. There is no such thing as a eutopia in reality.
That is likely a far more pragmatic and effective approach to removing yourself from a gun culture if you don't like it. Don't like the club? Feel free to leave. Hundreds of thousands have died to ensure you of that democratic right.
So basically IIO you are saying we are inherently a barbaric and violent culture and we best get used to it. We've dug our grave so just let our children (kindergarteners) lie in it.
I won't. I'll fight and continue to fight the NRA and the Russians who adamantly support them. Unlike many on this site I have a problem with another country deciding our elections and deciding who dies and who doesn't and promotes the fights that divide us. And i have a BIG problem with a country that does nothing absolutely nothing while our kids are gunned down.
Beach -- we don't know if the assault gun ban did help or not because the NRA helped fund a bill to disallow research. You know why? Because in 1993, a CDC-funded study in the New England Journal of Medicine found that firearms kept at home increased the risk of homicide by someone in the household, rather than offering protection. Soon after this article was published, the NRA launched a targeted campaign to eliminate "ant-gun propaganda" within the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control at the CDC.
I'm done with you guys who are happy to be controlled by yet another group of corporations wanting to sell their product (see cigarettes.) Good luck to you all. I just hope you kids or grandkids aren't among the fallen.
I don't think you have a barbaric and violent culture any more than most other countries. I already stated that in this thread. I think you have an obsession with a tool. The same way you have an obsession with McDonalds and Coca Cola... Shooting deaths, in that sense are no different than heart attacks, strokes, and deaths from complications with diabetes.
I think we have a tendency to act emotionally when shootings like the one in Florida happen, and who could blame us? Kids died. That boils the blood of any person with a conscious. But when you take a step back and look at the big picture, of course it happened. It's simply a consequence of a nation's choice.
And the 1980’s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back. The Cold War is over.
As far as my children and grandchildren they are all well versed in firearms, and firearm safety, and they all hunt.
Like I stated. I find it odd so may people I've met have never touched a firearm, and have no idea of firearm safety. That is just odd to me.
Last edited:
"The United States is a republic which guarantees its citizens the right to bear arms, except for in specific scenarios. In a globalized world, people are free to apply for citizenship to any country who will have them. If people feel that it's in the best interest of their family to move to a country with far more strict guns laws and far less gun violence as a consequence, start writing up your applications. You have plenty of options of fine countries to choose from. Just be aware that those countries will have their own issues. There is no such thing as a eutopia in reality."
Wow, that is just so cynical and...
I am really glad we didn't take you advice during the Vietnam war, IIO. "Love it or Leave it." How many more Americans and Vietnamese would have been killed? We are a republic but our people are guaranteed a voice! The citizens of my country demonstrated to stop that war. And they did stop that war.
According to a recent poll 66-31 percent of Americans want stricter gun laws, and 50-44 of GUN OWNERS percent want tighter measures, and 67-29 percent support a ban on the sale of assault weapons and 83-14 backing for a mandatory waiting period for gun purchases,
67% AND 83 percent. Don't you think that is a clear indication of the will of the people? I do and I am confident that my American brothers and sisters will vote in people who will change the law. Watch Emma's speech. Times they are a changing'.
Wow, that is just so cynical and...
I am really glad we didn't take you advice during the Vietnam war, IIO. "Love it or Leave it." How many more Americans and Vietnamese would have been killed? We are a republic but our people are guaranteed a voice! The citizens of my country demonstrated to stop that war. And they did stop that war.
According to a recent poll 66-31 percent of Americans want stricter gun laws, and 50-44 of GUN OWNERS percent want tighter measures, and 67-29 percent support a ban on the sale of assault weapons and 83-14 backing for a mandatory waiting period for gun purchases,
67% AND 83 percent. Don't you think that is a clear indication of the will of the people? I do and I am confident that my American brothers and sisters will vote in people who will change the law. Watch Emma's speech. Times they are a changing'.
This is interesting about the Vietnam war.:
General Giap was a brilliant, highly respected leader of the North Vietnam military. The following quote is from his memoirs currently found in the Vietnam war memorial in Hanoi:
"What we still don't understand is why you Americans stopped the bombing of Hanoi. You had us on the ropes. If you had pressed us a little harder, just for another day or two, we were ready to surrender! It was the same at the battles of TET. You defeated us! We knew it, and we thought you knew it. "
"But we were elated to notice your media was definitely helping us. They were causing more disruption in America than we could in the battlefields. We were ready to surrender. You had won"
Your protest did more harm than good, and probably aided the enemy killing my brother at Khe Sahn.
Another interesting point you keep bringing up is Emma's speech, yet I don't remember ever hearing you talk the speech that Kate Steinle's brother and father gave.
We are a republic and our citizens are guaranteed a voice aswellas guaranteed a right to bear arms to keep the government in check.
Shall we look back in history when the majority wanted to do things that were overturned because it violated the Constitution?
The best you can do is hope your state restricts people rights even more in California, but I believe you got bigger things on your plate there with the homeless crisis and the disease/ health issues it is causing, and the overwhelming state debt and the influx of illegal immigrants while losing your middle class
Last edited:
Being armed isn't the total answer. Armed and trained in an active shooter situation would help but it's not the total answer. Teachers are there to teach IMHO. Hire ex military and retired police.
Pay for any new security hires with an annual fee on all guns and ammo held. Freedom ain't free.
Here you go douche.
Australian gun ban effectively reduced gun violence to 1 per 100,000 people. That's pretty good. The states that are MOST gun FRIENDLY in the US: UT, NH, ND, Maine, Minn, AZ. Oregon, VT all added up have the same population as Australia. The gun related homicide rate for these combined states is 1.6 per 100,000. Conversely the most gun restricted states in the US: NY, NJ, CA, Mass, Illinois, RI, have a rate of 3.78 per 100,000.
My un expert opinion on the matter. Blame the shooter. Hardened entrances. Armed trained security that focuses on who gets in and who gets out and the grounds area, not food fights in the cafeteria. FBI and Broward County PD has explaining to do. After that, fix it. Take a long hard look at why this country is so quick to medicate their young people. Quit it. These students amped up by the media are not helping matters any.
I'm pretty sure they can go roused up some funds that the illegal aliens are currently getting
Last edited:
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
BAS: Venue change for Tuesday's game with Butler — now set for ND- Latest: Eric Hansen
-
-
Recruiting Official visit dates for Notre Dame's 2025 commits
- Latest: Tyler James