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Michigan (Don Brown + Haraugh) v. Dual-Threat QB Offenses

OneillIrish

Irish Expert
Mar 8, 2017
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Michigan has struggled, mightily, against dual-threat QBs during the 2 years that Harbaugh and Don Brown have been at Michigan.

Below is a look at the QB rushing (yards & YPC) and the total opponent rushing (yards & YPC) for every "dual threat QB" opponent Michigan has faced during the Harbaugh/Brown regime, defined as a QB who rushes for 400+ yards during the season.
  • Cen. Florida (2016): 69 Yards & 5.8 YPC / 275 Yards & 6.0 YPC (Win) --- Starter (Milton) out
  • Penn State (2017): 76 Yards & 6.9 YPC / 224 Yards & 6.4 YPC (Loss)
  • Ohio State (2017): 126 Yards & 5.0 YPC / 226 Yards & 4.7 YPC (Loss)
  • Ohio State (2016): 125 Yards & 4.2 YPC / 206 Yards & 4.1 YPC (Loss)
  • Michigan State (2017): 61 Yards & 4.1 YPC / 158 Yards & 4.0 YPC (Loss)
  • Colorado (2016): 4 Yards & 0.5 YPC / 64 Yards & 1.9 YPC (Win)
Average:
  • QB Rushing Allowance: 77 Yards & 4.4 YPC
  • Team Rushing Allowance: 190 Yards & 4.41 YPC
(This was basically the ND 2012 Rushing Average, in terms of team rushing)
 
For starters the rules of college football give an advantage to duel threat QB's which is why power is run only at a small handful of programs. Even Alabama is a duel threat shop after giving up 42 to OSU. For starters I do not believe it is possible in the college game for a dominant defense to shut down a prolific offense run by a duel threat QB. If you are up against a Baker Mayfield or Deshawn Watson all you can do is thwart them a few times and hope your duel threat offense gets a big lead.

Don Brown made his name at BC because he did have some success against duel threat QB's despite having 2nd echelon talent. He did this by recruiting particular types of players who were smaller but more explosive. If the offense is in space, the defense is in space. If a smaller attacker blitzes from an unexpected location, a big hat on little hat is not so useful because the big hat can't get over in time.

There is more exhaustive video and information out there but in simplicity Don Brown wants to disrupt the keys the duel threat QB is relying on. The beauty of the duel threat QB is it is easy to implement and effective even if reading simple keys. If you are always blitzing from different directions, a defensive player shows up in a place the QB is not expecting. There is some great screenshots when BC played FSU and ND where the duel threat QB has read his key correctly yet the play is being obliterated because of an unforeseen blitz. These were all running plays.

There is a classic(I can't tell if Kizer or Zaire) is doing the read option and blitzing linebackers burst through one tackling the QB and the other the RB right at the exchange mesh point.

The philosophy is that a great duel threat QB will keep the sticks moving. Bend but don't break does not work because Baker Mayfield will convert every 3rd and 5. The only way to get off the field is to make a big play. At the risk of giving up a 20 yard chunk you hope to put BM in 3rd and 15 or better yet a TO. That is the only way to combat the advantage of adding another attacker that the duel threat brings. So blitz, blitz, and more blitz and if a big play is made, try to minimize.

Don Brown's defense in 2016 though experienced was mostly Brady Hoke recruits. Fortunately Hoke was a good dline recruiter. Most of the hold overs are gone. Last year UM had difficulty implementing everything Brown wanted because when in the 3-4 they had two slower linebackers, and even when they converted to a 4-3 McCray was a liablity in space(see multiple wheel routes by RB's). It also did not help that 1st year players even if talented made big mistakes.

What do I think for 2018. I think Don Brown finally has a fully weaponized defense. He will be able to field a linebacker corp where every individual can handle run, blitz, or pass defense responsibilities.

There will be two other items that I think will occur in 2018. The first is now that Don Brown's recruits are in their 3rd year he can unleash his gaggle of rabid squirrel pass rushers. I had mentioned Josh Uche as a good example of an undersized tweener who after a couple years probably has space responsibilities down. So I would expect more 3-4 sets where Uche comes in. Now you have 4 4.6ish 40 LB types coming after a duel threat QB.

The other thing I expect more this year is change ups into zone for pass defense. UM had the #1 rated pass defense in the country and it began with the two corners allowing only 22 pass completions the entire year. That is great. But a TO is better. With 10 new starters it was impossible to implement everything. My expectation is do more of what UM did to PSU when McSorely threw that INT. It happened because UM pulled a surprise and played zone.

There are two potential roadblocks to full Don Brown weaponization. Mo Hurst is gone. Someone has to be the interior disruptor. If the center cannot hold you have nothing. The 2nd item is the safeties missed too many tackles that turned 15 yard gains into 30 yard gains or TD's. When the offense wins RPS, safeties have to keep the defense in the game by cutting the big play down.

In summary everyone not Wisconsin is running duel threat. So I don't know why some games are picked where UM did not do as well. Everyone is duel threat! Clearly bad teams with bad duel threat QB's can be more easily handled. If talent is equivalent or there is a maestro at QB, all you can do is try to take it to them at the risk of some big plays. As we saw with Alabama in the 2014-2015 period, even a team that can pick the best defensive prospects in the country is vulnerable to a 40 point outburst, something that happened to Alabama 4 times.
 
Michigan has struggled, mightily, against dual-threat QBs during the 2 years that Harbaugh and Don Brown have been at Michigan.

Below is a look at the QB rushing (yards & YPC) and the total opponent rushing (yards & YPC) for every "dual threat QB" opponent Michigan has faced during the Harbaugh/Brown regime, defined as a QB who rushes for 400+ yards during the season.
  • Cen. Florida (2016): 69 Yards & 5.8 YPC / 275 Yards & 6.0 YPC (Win) --- Starter (Milton) out
  • Penn State (2017): 76 Yards & 6.9 YPC / 224 Yards & 6.4 YPC (Loss)
  • Ohio State (2017): 126 Yards & 5.0 YPC / 226 Yards & 4.7 YPC (Loss)
  • Ohio State (2016): 125 Yards & 4.2 YPC / 206 Yards & 4.1 YPC (Loss)
  • Michigan State (2017): 61 Yards & 4.1 YPC / 158 Yards & 4.0 YPC (Loss)
  • Colorado (2016): 4 Yards & 0.5 YPC / 64 Yards & 1.9 YPC (Win)
Average:
  • QB Rushing Allowance: 77 Yards & 4.4 YPC
  • Team Rushing Allowance: 190 Yards & 4.41 YPC
(This was basically the ND 2012 Rushing Average, in terms of team rushing)

I didn't know cherries were still in season.

cherry%20picking1.jpg
 
For starters the rules of college football give an advantage to duel threat QB's which is why power is run only at a small handful of programs. Even Alabama is a duel threat shop after giving up 42 to OSU. For starters I do not believe it is possible in the college game for a dominant defense to shut down a prolific offense run by a duel threat QB. If you are up against a Baker Mayfield or Deshawn Watson all you can do is thwart them a few times and hope your duel threat offense gets a big lead.

Don Brown made his name at BC because he did have some success against duel threat QB's despite having 2nd echelon talent. He did this by recruiting particular types of players who were smaller but more explosive. If the offense is in space, the defense is in space. If a smaller attacker blitzes from an unexpected location, a big hat on little hat is not so useful because the big hat can't get over in time.

There is more exhaustive video and information out there but in simplicity Don Brown wants to disrupt the keys the duel threat QB is relying on. The beauty of the duel threat QB is it is easy to implement and effective even if reading simple keys. If you are always blitzing from different directions, a defensive player shows up in a place the QB is not expecting. There is some great screenshots when BC played FSU and ND where the duel threat QB has read his key correctly yet the play is being obliterated because of an unforeseen blitz. These were all running plays.

There is a classic(I can't tell if Kizer or Zaire) is doing the read option and blitzing linebackers burst through one tackling the QB and the other the RB right at the exchange mesh point.

The philosophy is that a great duel threat QB will keep the sticks moving. Bend but don't break does not work because Baker Mayfield will convert every 3rd and 5. The only way to get off the field is to make a big play. At the risk of giving up a 20 yard chunk you hope to put BM in 3rd and 15 or better yet a TO. That is the only way to combat the advantage of adding another attacker that the duel threat brings. So blitz, blitz, and more blitz and if a big play is made, try to minimize.

Don Brown's defense in 2016 though experienced was mostly Brady Hoke recruits. Fortunately Hoke was a good dline recruiter. Most of the hold overs are gone. Last year UM had difficulty implementing everything Brown wanted because when in the 3-4 they had two slower linebackers, and even when they converted to a 4-3 McCray was a liablity in space(see multiple wheel routes by RB's). It also did not help that 1st year players even if talented made big mistakes.

What do I think for 2018. I think Don Brown finally has a fully weaponized defense. He will be able to field a linebacker corp where every individual can handle run, blitz, or pass defense responsibilities.

There will be two other items that I think will occur in 2018. The first is now that Don Brown's recruits are in their 3rd year he can unleash his gaggle of rabid squirrel pass rushers. I had mentioned Josh Uche as a good example of an undersized tweener who after a couple years probably has space responsibilities down. So I would expect more 3-4 sets where Uche comes in. Now you have 4 4.6ish 40 LB types coming after a duel threat QB.

The other thing I expect more this year is change ups into zone for pass defense. UM had the #1 rated pass defense in the country and it began with the two corners allowing only 22 pass completions the entire year. That is great. But a TO is better. With 10 new starters it was impossible to implement everything. My expectation is do more of what UM did to PSU when McSorely threw that INT. It happened because UM pulled a surprise and played zone.

There are two potential roadblocks to full Don Brown weaponization. Mo Hurst is gone. Someone has to be the interior disruptor. If the center cannot hold you have nothing. The 2nd item is the safeties missed too many tackles that turned 15 yard gains into 30 yard gains or TD's. When the offense wins RPS, safeties have to keep the defense in the game by cutting the big play down.

In summary everyone not Wisconsin is running duel threat. So I don't know why some games are picked where UM did not do as well. Everyone is duel threat! Clearly bad teams with bad duel threat QB's can be more easily handled. If talent is equivalent or there is a maestro at QB, all you can do is try to take it to them at the risk of some big plays. As we saw with Alabama in the 2014-2015 period, even a team that can pick the best defensive prospects in the country is vulnerable to a 40 point outburst, something that happened to Alabama 4 times.

So much wrong here. Let’s start with the basics:

No, most teams don’t run into a threat. For example, Michigan only face three teams in 2016 who had a QB rush for 400 yards or more.

Second, it is possible for a great defense to shut down prolific dual threat offenses. See Alabama last year against Clemson and Florida State.

Third, Michigan has had consistent and repeated failure against dual threat QBs under Jim Harbaugh and Don Brown, as outlined in my op.

So, without the factual inaccuracies and useless rambling: what makes you think that Michigan has suddenly going to transform from a defense who has been constantly humiliated by dual threat QBs to one who can shut one down?
 
I didn't know cherries were still in season.

cherry%20picking1.jpg

I worsted literally every single game that Michigan has had against a dual threat QB (one who ran for more than 400 yards that season) under the Jim Harbaugh and Don Brown era.

In what way is that cherry picking?

Are you really stupid enough to claim that there’s no difference between facing a dual threat QB as opposed to one who can’t hurt you with his legs?
 
I worsted literally every single game that Michigan has had against a dual threat QB (one who ran for more than 400 yards that season) under the Jim Harbaugh and Don Brown era.

In what way is that cherry picking?

Are you really stupid enough to claim that there’s no difference between facing a dual threat QB as opposed to one who can’t hurt you with his legs?

You *literally* did not list all the dual threat teams.

Penn State 2016, Maryland (https://www.testudotimes.com/maryla...nderson-dual-threat-film-highlights-breakdown) just off the top of my head. There are a ton of programs who use dual threat QBs.
 
You *literally* did not list all the dual threat teams.

Penn State 2016, Maryland (https://www.testudotimes.com/maryla...nderson-dual-threat-film-highlights-breakdown) just off the top of my head. There are a ton of programs who use dual threat QBs.

Trace McSorely didn’t rush for 400+ yards in 2016, and this did not make the list.

I included literally every single team that had a QB who ran for 400+ yards, as I said.

Results were clear, dual threat QBs slice up Dan Brown defenses and beat Jim Harbaugh Michigan teams.
 
So Trace McSorley doesn't count because his 360 yds didn't hit your 400 yd mark?

Well, here's a little nugget for you:

McSorley had -6 rushing yards vs Don Brown and Harbaugh and Michigan in 2016. The following 3 weeks he had 73, 81, and 63 rushing yards with the later being against Ohio State.

So I guess he would have qualified had he performed against Michigan like he did any of the 3 following games.
 
So Trace McSorley doesn't count because his 360 yds didn't hit your 400 yd mark?

Well, here's a little nugget for you:

McSorley had -6 rushing yards vs Don Brown and Harbaugh and Michigan in 2016. The following 3 weeks he had 73, 81, and 63 rushing yards with the later being against Ohio State.

So I guess he would have qualified had he performed against Michigan like he did any of the 3 following games.
Correct.

He didn’t qualify in 2016 because he didn’t rush enough to meet the minimum standard, unlike the other 6 to 7 QBs who I posted.

Looking at just a few of his games that season to come up with the idea that he was a real rushing threat, when his season long numbers show that he was not, is actual cherry picking.

Unlike you, I didn’t cherry pick a few guys who I wanted to include you in the list because their performance helped my point. I included the one player at that Michigan shut down as well as all of the ones they didn’t, if they met the minimum rushing requirement.

Not to mention that I could have set the threshold so much higher, considering that Brandon Wimbush was approaching 1000 yards rushing last season
 
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Correct.

He didn’t qualify in 2016 because he didn’t rush enough to meet the minimum standard, unlike the other 6 to 7 QBs who I posted.

Looking at just a few of his games that season to come up with the idea that he was a real rushing threat, when his season long numbers show that he was not, is actual cherry picking.

Unlike you, I didn’t cherry pick a few guys who I wanted to include you in the list because their performance helped my point. I included the one player at that Michigan shut down as well as all of the ones they didn’t, if they met the minimum rushing requirement.

Not to mention that I could have set the threshold so much higher, considering that Brandon Wimbush was approaching 1000 yards rushing last season
Everyone is doing the read option. It just happens to be that some do it better. If you want to say that a team that successfully read optioned Michigan had a better chance to win great.

Maryland was a huge read option team that spent the entire season. What you missed is they had 4 QB's. The other thing you have to remember about college football is sack yardage is part of run yards. So a guy who rushes for 500 yards but takes 200 yards of sacks has 300 yards. So a QB can be successful running the football but he will not make your number.

Next item is you don't have to have the QB run that much to gain an advantage. If you show read and the defense does not crash the DE, you give to the RB every time. If a team has a good running QB but not a great option at RB, you play the QB. A lot of teams again Maryland use a read option base even if the QB does not get many runs. If they do because they had passing issues any success by the QB is buried in the sack numbers.

I have you my honest thoughts on UM defense. If it is just blather to you I don't why you bother to ask. Am I just troll bait?
 
Michigan has struggled, mightily, against dual-threat QBs during the 2 years that Harbaugh and Don Brown have been at Michigan.

Below is a look at the QB rushing (yards & YPC) and the total opponent rushing (yards & YPC) for every "dual threat QB" opponent Michigan has faced during the Harbaugh/Brown regime, defined as a QB who rushes for 400+ yards during the season.
  • Cen. Florida (2016): 69 Yards & 5.8 YPC / 275 Yards & 6.0 YPC (Win) --- Starter (Milton) out
  • Penn State (2017): 76 Yards & 6.9 YPC / 224 Yards & 6.4 YPC (Loss)
  • Ohio State (2017): 126 Yards & 5.0 YPC / 226 Yards & 4.7 YPC (Loss)
  • Ohio State (2016): 125 Yards & 4.2 YPC / 206 Yards & 4.1 YPC (Loss)
  • Michigan State (2017): 61 Yards & 4.1 YPC / 158 Yards & 4.0 YPC (Loss)
  • Colorado (2016): 4 Yards & 0.5 YPC / 64 Yards & 1.9 YPC (Win)
Average:
  • QB Rushing Allowance: 77 Yards & 4.4 YPC
  • Team Rushing Allowance: 190 Yards & 4.41 YPC
(This was basically the ND 2012 Rushing Average, in terms of team rushing)
Well, for starters, until Wimbush actually proves he can pass, he's not really a true dual threat. He's an excellent athlete, and very good runner, but his passing ability is suspect at best, and based on the camp reports I've seen, this is still very much a question mark with him.

That being said, what makes you think that he actually improves on this? Michigan has had some success shutting down one dimensional QB's like Wimbush under Don Brown, and I expect that to be the case again on Saturday night.
 
Well, for starters, until Wimbush actually proves he can pass, he's not really a true dual threat. He's an excellent athlete, and very good runner, but his passing ability is suspect at best, and based on the camp reports I've seen, this is still very much a question mark with him.

That being said, what makes you think that he actually improves on this? Michigan has had some success shutting down one dimensional QB's like Wimbush under Don Brown, and I expect that to be the case again on Saturday night.

Maybe Wimbush can drop kick? That would make him a dual threat.
 
Everyone is doing the read option. It just happens to be that some do it better. If you want to say that a team that successfully read optioned Michigan had a better chance to win great.

Maryland was a huge read option team that spent the entire season. What you missed is they had 4 QB's. The other thing you have to remember about college football is sack yardage is part of run yards. So a guy who rushes for 500 yards but takes 200 yards of sacks has 300 yards. So a QB can be successful running the football but he will not make your number.

Next item is you don't have to have the QB run that much to gain an advantage. If you show read and the defense does not crash the DE, you give to the RB every time. If a team has a good running QB but not a great option at RB, you play the QB. A lot of teams again Maryland use a read option base even if the QB does not get many runs. If they do because they had passing issues any success by the QB is buried in the sack numbers.

I have you my honest thoughts on UM defense. If it is just blather to you I don't why you bother to ask. Am I just troll bait?

You keep changing the topic away from dual-threat QBs

You bring up QBs that don't qualify, and now a system instead of the QB.

Again:
"Dual-threat QBs have sliced and diced the 'elite' defenses of Don Brown like a hot knife through butter nearly every time he's faced them.......what makes you think that will suddenly change in 2018?"

Try to stay on point this time
 
Well, for starters, until Wimbush actually proves he can pass, he's not really a true dual threat. He's an excellent athlete, and very good runner, but his passing ability is suspect at best, and based on the camp reports I've seen, this is still very much a question mark with him.

That being said, what makes you think that he actually improves on this? Michigan has had some success shutting down one dimensional QB's like Wimbush under Don Brown, and I expect that to be the case again on Saturday night.

Wimbush has shown he can pass, when he dissected teams like Michigan State, USC, NC State, etc.

He just wasn't anywhere near consistent enough in 2017.

In fact, against Top25 competition, Wimbush's passing numbers are better than Shea's.

So, you were saying......???
 
honestly, this post is way too confident consdering you will know the answer to your question 'how good is michigans defense?' in two days. the only time i can say browns defense was truly sliced and diced was against penn state last year. night game, whiteout, with 10 first year starters on defense michigan didnt really have a shot. barkley went off early in that game.
 
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Trace McSorely didn’t rush for 400+ yards in 2016, and this did not make the list.

I included literally every single team that had a QB who ran for 400+ yards, as I said.

Results were clear, dual threat QBs slice up Dan Brown defenses and beat Jim Harbaugh Michigan teams.
live in bliss my friend...
 
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live in bliss my friend...

You don't agree that dual-threat QB's have run through Don Brown/Harbaugh defense like a hot knife through butter?

Or is it that you think allowing 200 yards at 4 YPC is actually good?

Or are you predicting a magical change this year?
Why?
(that's the whole point)
 
You don't agree that dual-threat QB's have run through Don Brown/Harbaugh defense like a hot knife through butter?

Or is it that you think allowing 200 yards at 4 YPC is actually good?

Or are you predicting a magical change this year?
Why?
(that's the whole point)

Well, we shall have to see if we have improved. I can tell you for a fact that we are much faster than last year (McCray was tough but slooooow).

And that we return 10 starters vs 2 returning starters in 2017.
 
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You don't agree that dual-threat QB's have run through Don Brown/Harbaugh defense like a hot knife through butter?

Or is it that you think allowing 200 yards at 4 YPC is actually good?

Or are you predicting a magical change this year?
Why?
(that's the whole point)

all ill say here is, LOL @ you comparing ND and OSU, and including 2017 msu. as for penn state, really no comparison between mcsorley and wimbush, or barkley and jones. add in a night game white out and 10 new starters, you get a blowout. (ND should be familiar with this: miami)
 
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Well, we shall have to see if we have improved. I can tell you for a fact that we are much faster than last year (McCray was tough but slooooow).

And that we return 10 starters vs 2 returning starters in 2017.

What were the excuses for the year before?

Too many returning starters??
 
all ill say here is, LOL @ you comparing ND and OSU, and including 2017 msu. as for penn state, really no comparison between mcsorley and wimbush, or barkley and jones. add in a night game white out and 10 new starters, you get a blowout. (ND should be familiar with this: miami)

You realize that the comparison is that they all had QBs who run for over 400 yards, right?

Those types of QBs have just torched Don Brown.

Will that continue??
 
What were the excuses for the year before?

Too many returning starters??

id be concerned which team youll see saturday, considering ND went 4-8 2 years ago. is ND ohio state? youre comparing wimbush/jones to barret/dobbins and mcsorley/barkley...there is no comparison. michigans defense has the capacity to dominate them. if wimbush cant beat michigans secondary with his arm, brown will t-off on him. having a 'running qb' isnt what wins games. might be a shock, but michigan has a 'running qb' as well.
 
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So much wrong here. Let’s start with the basics:

No, most teams don’t run into a threat. For example, Michigan only face three teams in 2016 who had a QB rush for 400 yards or more.

Second, it is possible for a great defense to shut down prolific dual threat offenses. See Alabama last year against Clemson and Florida State.

Third, Michigan has had consistent and repeated failure against dual threat QBs under Jim Harbaugh and Don Brown, as outlined in my op.

So, without the factual inaccuracies and useless rambling: what makes you think that Michigan has suddenly going to transform from a defense who has been constantly humiliated by dual threat QBs to one who can shut one down?

Well Wimbush isn’t exactly a dual threat. That would assume he could pass.

I assume he will do some damage with his legs, but his scattershot arm against the number one pass defense from a year ago is a major mismatch.
 
You don't agree that dual-threat QB's have run through Don Brown/Harbaugh defense like a hot knife through butter?

Or is it that you think allowing 200 yards at 4 YPC is actually good?

Or are you predicting a magical change this year?
Why?
(that's the whole point)


UM is aggressive - they get a lot of sacks and TFLs, but they are susceptible to big plays - that is, IF the QB makes the right decisions... Penn State lit them up, but other than that, it hasn't been easy for anybody...

they will bring some heat on Wimbush - given the way he finished last year, and with a short leash, he needs to start fast - and it will not be a "hot knife through butter"... it's gonna be hard...
 
UM is aggressive - they get a lot of sacks and TFLs, but they are susceptible to big plays - that is, IF the QB makes the right decisions... Penn State lit them up, but other than that, it hasn't been easy for anybody...

they will bring some heat on Wimbush - given the way he finished last year, and with a short leash, he needs to start fast - and it will not be a "hot knife through butter"... it's gonna be hard...

It will be interesting.

Their aggressive scheme seems incredibly vulnerable to QB runs and scrambles.

That’s commons when defenses focus on getting upfield and lose contain. It’s even more common when they okay a lot of man coverage.

You’re right though, it’s all about the QB making the right decisions and the OL winning at the point of attack.
 
might be a shock, but michigan has a 'running qb' as well.
-16 yards rushing last year and now he's a running QB? Easily the dumbest fanbase in sports. Wimbush ran for almost 900 yards and 14 TDs. He's better than any QB Michigan has seen the last few years at running the ball.

And lol at the guy acting like beating 2017 MSU wasn't that big of a deal when this "amazing" Michigan team lost to them at home last year. You just better worry about actually beating a ranked team, hairball is 0-14 at Michigan.
 
-16 yards rushing last year and now he's a running QB? Easily the dumbest fanbase in sports. Wimbush ran for almost 900 yards and 14 TDs. He's better than any QB Michigan has seen the last few years at running the ball.

And lol at the guy acting like beating 2017 MSU wasn't that big of a deal when this "amazing" Michigan team lost to them at home last year. You just better worry about actually beating a ranked team, hairball is 0-14 at Michigan.
lots of incorrect numbers in your post, so i wouldnt be calling anyone dumb.
Patterson is definitely mobile. ole miss had a bad OL which results in lots of sacks, he had close to 200 rush yards the previous year in 3 games. Heres another stat that caught my attention- wimbush had 1870 passing yards through 12 games and Patterson had 2250 passing yards in 7 games. wimbush didnt almost run for 900 yards, he had 804, that doesnt round up to 900. wimbush had 2,600 total yards last year. this same defense has seen barret who had 3,900 total yards and mcsorley who had 4000.

not sure where the 0-14 number is coming from, but i do know kelly finished out an impressive 4-8 season not even two years ago.
 
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lots of incorrect numbers in your post, so i wouldnt be calling anyone dumb.
Patterson is definitely mobile. ole miss had a bad OL which results in lots of sacks, he had close to 200 rush yards the previous year in 3 games. Heres another stat that caught my attention- wimbush had 1870 passing yards through 12 games and Patterson had 2250 passing yards in 7 games. wimbush didnt almost run for 900 yards, he had 804, that doesnt round up to 900. wimbush had 2,600 total yards last year. this same defense has seen barret who had 3,900 total yards and mcsorley who had 4000.

not sure where the 0-14 number is coming from, but i do know kelly finished out an impressive 4-8 season not even two years ago.
Wimbush's yard total was between 800 and 900, to me that's close to 900 but call it what you will. He also rushed for 14 tds. Neither Barret or Mcsorley are as explosive on the ground as Wimbush and the numbers bare that out. They are both far better all around QBs, no one is denying that.

Shea Patterson is not a "running QB" that was a dumb statement and you deserve to be called out on it. Any QB that starts 7 games and runs for -16 yards isn't a "running QB" I don't give sh*t how bad the offensive line is. He might be mobile but he isn't a running QB.

Michigan hasn't beaten a ranked team on the road in almost 13 years (ouch) and coming off an 8 and 5 season where they lost to every decent team they played. Hell he's just 1 and 5 against his rivals. So if I was you I would be a little more humble about past seasons.

That being said I know Notre Dame went 4 and 8 in 2016, I wanted Brian Kelly gone then and I still do now. I'm not arguing that Notre Dame is some juggernaut program so I don't even know why you brought that up.

Edit: My bad I thought I read somewhere that Harbaugh was 0 and 14 at Michigan against ranked teams. I haven't paid much attention to Michigan lately because we haven't played them the last few years. Wrong stat my fault.
 
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Michigan fan here, been lurking for a few days. For the most part, entertaining here. If the actual number is 804, what kind of hillbilly math is that rounding up to 900 :) 0-14 vs ranked teams? Huh? Ecstatic to see this series again. Here's to a great and injuy free game. Gl and I think we can all agree, thank God college football is back
 
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You keep changing the topic away from dual-threat QBs

You bring up QBs that don't qualify, and now a system instead of the QB.

Again:
"Dual-threat QBs have sliced and diced the 'elite' defenses of Don Brown like a hot knife through butter nearly every time he's faced them.......what makes you think that will suddenly change in 2018?"

Try to stay on point this time
If you look at the games UM lost and how it happened it was three things. The offense was inconsistent against the best teams such that not scoring points had a bigger impact. The 2nd item was that the UM offense generated multiple turnovers in a couple of the losses. UM does not turn the ball over against MSU or SC or just halve the turnovers they win. In the combined two lossses they turned the ball over nine times. No defense regardless of the state of the running QB pretending to be a hot knife can consistently stand up that pressure. It is similar to you bagging the ND defense for losing to Miami and Stanford. TO's are bad enough. TO's on the road against a good team, disaster. Last you failed to look at play by play. Those running QBs in the first parts of game got spanked. Regardless if a team had a read option QB or not the other aspects of the offense improved as the UM defensive line wore down.

That all said in the 4th quarter whether it was OSU with Barrett or Wisc with pure power, everyone was going through UM. There were exceptions. MSU only scored 14 because they really are not that good of an offense. Look at their rush stats. SC also really did go up and down the field. Just hard to win if you cough the ball of 5 times in 20 minutes.

What do I expect for this year? The same thing I mentioned in my analysis. Dline is 2 deep. UM now has an array of linebackers who are all Don Brown prototypes. I think they will have the speed to stop the edge. So it comes up if the center can hold. Wimbush is a good interior runner. So we will see what happens in 48 hours.
 
Wimbush's yard total was between 800 and 900, to me that's close to 900 but call it what you will. He also rushed for 14 tds. Neither Barret or Mcsorley are as explosive on the ground as Wimbush and the numbers bare that out. They are both far better all around QBs, no one is denying that.

Shea Patterson is not a "running QB" that was a dumb statement and you deserve to be called out on it. Any QB that starts 7 games and runs for -16 yards isn't a "running QB" I don't give sh*t how bad the offensive line is. He might be mobile but he isn't a running QB.

Michigan hasn't beaten a ranked team on the road in almost 13 years (ouch) and coming off an 8 and 5 season where they lost to every decent team they played. Hell he's just 1 and 5 against his rivals. So if I was you I would be a little more humble about past seasons.

That being said I know Notre Dame went 4 and 8 in 2016, I wanted Brian Kelly gone then and I still do now. I'm not arguing that Notre Dame is some juggernaut program so I don't even know why you brought that up.

Edit: My bad I thought I read somewhere that Harbaugh was 0 and 14 at Michigan against ranked teams. I haven't paid much attention to Michigan lately because we haven't played them the last few years. Wrong stat my fault.
im not the one out here claiming ridiculous things, and posting fake news. i dont see how posting stats is not being humble. they dont fit your narrative and you dont like it.
 
im not the one out here claiming ridiculous things, and posting fake news. i dont see how posting stats is not being humble. they dont fit your narrative and you dont like it.
Agree to disagree we will all see tomorrow night.
 
you disagree with the numbers, got it.
Dude I misread the stats somewhere, I already said my bad and I edited it. You're the one that called a QB that ran for negative yards last year a "running qb".
Gtfoh with that sh*t.
 
Dude I misread the stats somewhere, I already said my bad and I edited it. You're the one that called a QB that ran for negative yards last year a "running qb".
Gtfoh with that sh*t.
He had to run for his life a few times and I hope he keeps doing it.
 
I posted the game against Alabama. The Ole Miss wideouts were fairly easily discouraged by the Alabama DB’s. They gave up on their routes. And Patterson was running for his survival.
 
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