Do you feel that it's been the same in all of their last 8 major bowl loses (the last 8 they've played in)?... No talent issues, just started slow and didn't catch any breaks, 8 straight times?
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Do you feel that it's been the same in all of their last 8 major bowl loses (the last 8 they've played in)?... No talent issues, just started slow and didn't catch any breaks, 8 straight times?
Clemson has many more top 100 players that aren't producing like superstars.
You recruit 5-10 high 4 star / 5 star players PER CLASS, and maybe 30% of them turn into superstars. ND is currently recruiting ZERO high 4 star/5 star players. It's way more than 2-3 players per class to neutralize this talent difference.
Clemson is an example of a team over-performing their talent. They are far more talented than ND but nowhere near as talented/loaded as Alabama, OSU, and Georgia are.
I agree about the early time snd creating doubt, bu they would have eventually imposed their will.
1) We’re not going to put as many players in the NFL as they
2) A first round DL pick (let alone QB) is different than 4th round LB.
Even if we did place as many as they will, the quality matters, we literally saw 4 or 5 DL who will likely be first or second round draft picks play in this game and make plays. Defenses have to react to offenses EXCEPT at the LOS; you can change everything with elite DL talent and Clemson had that in droves.
BecAuse Lawrence went out in the first quarter and their third string QBs came in with no reps after Bryant had just quit.
That was literally Lawrence’s first start. He’s not even the same QB he was at the end of e regular season—he’s that much better.
Additionally, Syracuse got some breaks in that game. You could feel Clemson imposing its superior physicality all game and that they would come back. If that kickoff fumble was an inch another way, maybe we would have gotten that same type of momentum.
If Syracuse and Clemson played another quarter, it would be 28-0.
IIO, take a lesson from Telx, that's a real fan that has a way of providing insight without being a dick. Your post topic alone proves your act of a dick. Enjoy the new year. There will be many bitter years ahead for you as a fan if you continue this way. Too bad you turned out this way.
Today yes. Not sure what the teams from the last 20 years have to do with now? I have felt many a time ND didn't belong, 2012 we got beat by the same score but 2018 wasn't a team who was overwhelmed like 2012- Far from, the game got away from them. But they weren't out classed like 2012.
Blowouts happen in football, it's a game of execution and momentum,
Blowouts happen in football, it's a game of execution and momentum,
I'd say the far more weak ass cowardly posts are the ones that:
A.) Complain about the officiating and the fact that we didn't get any of the reviews to go our way.
B.) Include something like, "Well, we may have gotten our asses kicked, but at least our players get educated."
C. Are overtly racist like the rantings of GWoodIrish24 in the game thread. (I think they deleted the last few pages it was getting so bad.)
And the rest of the Clemson team, including Dexter Lawrence, just mailed it in and let Syracuse stick around - ND didn't even compete tonight. Three points after a month to prepare and with Dexter Lawrence out of the game. I mean I give the talent argument some legs, but ND should have been able to stay with Clemson and make it a game. Maybe they don't win, but you don't get your ass handed to you on the national stage - again.
Clemson lands 5 stars at the most important positions in football today. Quarterback, wide receiver, offensive tackle, defensive line, and corner... It's a passing age. The game is officiated that way and you have to be an electric downfield passing team to win. Alabama and Clemson are built the same in that respect. You also have to have pass rushers to counter it and corners to cover those wide receivers...
Look at the distribution of Clemson's 5 stars...
QB
Trevor Lawrence
Hunter Johnson
WR
Tee Higgins
Justyn Ross
Derion Kendrick (waiting his turn)
Frank Ladson (just signed)
OT
Mitch Hyatt
Jackson Carman (waiting his turn)
DT
Dexter Lawrence
Christian Wilkins
DE
Xavier Thomas
KJ Henry (waiting his turn)
CB
AJ Terrell
Andrew Booth (just signed)
All of the 5 star players on their roster that they've recruited over the past 5 years (including this year) play one of those premium positions.
OT, DE, DT, QB, WR... Those are the positions that you need 5 stars to win a national championship. You'll find plenty of quality players to support them at other positions. That's how Clemson competes with Alabama, despite landing half half the 5 star talent... They land the 5 stars where it matters.
I was referring specifically to tonight's game. I don't think it was a talent issue tonight but trust me, I've felt that has been the difference many of years., just not tonight.
So will you hold that same opinion when...
Lawrence
Lawrence (who sat)
Wilkins
Ross
Higgins
Hyatt
Thomas
Ferrell
Simmonds
Are 1st round draft picks over the next 3 drafts and Notre Dame has maybe 1 that played tonight?
Will the NFL GM's change your opinion of the talent that played tonight?
Clemson is one of those rare teams who've been able to have first tier success despite not recruiting in the first tier the last several years. Just replicating their model on the recruiting trail doesn't necessarily mean ND will replicate their results. Which is why ND needs to recruit way more top 100 players to neutralize the talent advantage. Clemson is doing more with less despite them having more than ND.
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THIS. Exactly this. You still have posters living in 1988 talking about a RB being the difference maker in this game. No. Lol. It’s the positions you mentioned.
It’s even more amplified now because THOSE are the positions most coveted by the NFL where the rules encourage downfield electricity (i.e., pass interference calls aren’t 15 yards). Elite talents at THESE positions want to go to a place with a path of least resistance to NFL millions
Everyone knows about QBs (I think though you still see peole tslkkng about RBs being MVPs)
OTs to protect him
DL to create pressure without blitzing and win the defensive battle at the only spot (Line of scrimmage) in which the defense isn’t reacting to the offense
CBs to defend WRs
WRs to make 50-50 plays as we saw tonight aside from creating consistent separation
Whoa whoa, you think ND had 1 first rounder on the whole roster? Absolute Joke
Just curious by that assumption Bosie St shouldn't of been able win their bowl games in 2006 and 2009'
I agree with you to a point. We lost Love and that hurt us. He in game. Who knows?
Who is drafted first round next 3 years? Maybe tillery but he did nothing tonight. Liam and banks have first round talent but a long ways to go. If book had an arm chase has first round talent but doesn't have a capable qb to push the ball. Nd has a lot of mid round talent.
Talking guys that played a significant role in the game tonight... I've got Tillery late in the 1st round, possibly Julian Okwara if he keeps developing. Who you have has obvious 1st rounders outside of those two?
But see, this Love situation illustrates what IIO and others are saying: with depth of recruiting, Love goes out and someone talented comes in. Lawrence will be a top 10 pick in the NFL draft and they didn’t miss him at all. TWO freshmen DL made tackles for losses and shoved our OL around on half the snaps.
OUR model means we have to develop a player for 3-4 years and hope they stay healthy.
Its not even about first rounders. There are plenty of great players that max out at the college level who don't really fit the pro style game.
ND is lacking first rounders but they are just lacking any real top end talent period outside of maybe a couple of guys.
I think the problems run deeper than talent. I think there are a lot of contributing factors
Agreed. It isn't just about recruiting 20-40 good players on the two deep. It's about recruiting 1 through 85 on the roster.
If I listed all the future 1st rounders on Clemson's roster, there would have been more... I just listed the ones that started tonight. All of them former 5 stars, with one exception and he was still a top 150 recruit.
I've got Jerry Tillery, Julian Okwara and Liam Eichenberg as potential 1st rounders that played tonight for ND.... IF goes 2 for 3 in that group, I'll be thrilled. Julian Love was given a 2nd round grade, unfortunately. So maybe ND has 2 instead of 3... Clemson started or gave major minutes to 9 obvious future 1st rounders tonight.
I thought the talent difference at QB, DL, and WR was enormous and obvious.
After falling to Clemson 30-3 in the College Football Playoff semifinal at the Goodyear Cotton Bowl Classic, Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly stressed that "four big plays" were the difference and that the Irish's issues Saturday were "technical and tactical," rather than talent-based.
Coach Kelly disagrees with you IIO.
LOL. Coach Kelly's response is loaded with bias and propaganda .. IIO is about as close to an objective professional opinion you'll get on the matter. And that goes for many of the fantastic posters that have been contributing to this site in recent months.
Don't start slamming BK. We had a great year. 12-0.
Tonight sucked, but don't start piling on BK because he didn't say exactly what you want to hear.
Nothing against IIO. He is a good poster with a lot of good information. However, Coach Kelly's opinion is the only one that matters, so either Kelly is delusional or IIO is wrong. I go with the former.
I wasn't slamming him. I simply posted a quote of his that was relevant to this thread. And it's 12-1 by the way. You can't wish away a 27 point beat down. You can go back to kissing Kelly's kiester now.
Are you serious? He can’t say there was a “talent issue” in front his players.
TL was hurt against Syracuse, and it took our third stringer a while to get settled. Plus Syracuse played a heck of a game against us. Babers is a good coach. Congratulations on a great season and hope to see you in the ACC (football) one day.
Have you followed this thread? IIO has stated there was a talent gap between Clemson and Notre Dame and made a great case for it. Coach Kelly gave that quote after the game. I posted the quote on this thread - a thread about the talent gap. Of course he's not going to say that in front of his players - he doesn't have to - they know it after that beat down. The point was to throw some humorous shade on IIO's post. Read that quote again. Who does he point the finger at - himself - I know it's hard for a Kelly guy like you to accept that fact. But he did impliedly blame himself and his staff for the loss.
I will say, this is why there is a contingent on here (including me) that expresses concern after some victories, like the Pitt/SC games. We get yelled at by the sunshine pumpers for not just being totally satisfied with the win, but those games do reveal more about your team and how they might match up with the elites. The weaknesses we showed in those games offensively definitely gave a preview to tonight.
The thing is, Loves backup was more highly recruited and ranked
This. Those dumbass “7-0” posters drive me nuts. It’s like you can’t root for a team and be critical at the same time.
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