Why the UT loss bothers us so bad

[88ND]

All critique aside....what and why this really bothers us is .....

It kills us that we're so close but just can't win those elite games.

We all could tolerate the UT loss and very easily mind you if we all felt confident it was our bad game because on any given day we are the bench mark. We will beat top 5 teams. Not always but more times than not. Kelly just can't quite get there.

With holtz we knew playing the almighty Miami that we can play with them. Hell we'll beat them. Michigan, USC, etc. We were year in year out the benchmark and a top 5 team. So we would all be fine if we lost that game because odds are we'll run the table and if we get into the playoff we got something for anyone.

See nobody feels like that because Kelly actually at some point has to win a big game. How about winning a big game as an underdog. How about not spotting the other team two touchdowns before you start with urgency.

 

[Sarah_Plain_And_Tall]

All critique aside....what and why this really bothers us is .....

It kills us that we're so close but just can't win those elite games.

We all could tolerate the UT loss and very easily mind you if we all felt confident it was our bad game because on any given day we are the bench mark. We will beat top 5 teams. Not always but more times than not. Kelly just can't quite get there.

With holtz we knew playing the almighty Miami that we can play with them. Hell we'll beat them. Michigan, USC, etc. We were year in year out the benchmark and a top 5 team. So we would all be fine if we lost that game because odds are we'll run the table and if we get into the playoff we got something for anyone.

See nobody feels like that because Kelly actually at some point has to win a big game. How about winning a big game as an underdog. How about not spotting the other team two touchdowns before you start with urgency.

Hold on there. This was not an elite team we lost to and that is what bothers me. I still believe we should have beaten them easily but Kelly was out-coached and the team was not prepared. BVG should have been fired at halftime.

I waited 9 months for the season to start and had to witness that debacle. Every time I start to give Kelly the benefit of the doubt, the team comes out and stinks the joint up. I will not be fooled again.

 

[tkirish]

This was a big game because it was Texas. Also it's the first game. But, I would not categorize it as an eltite game. Nevertheless, ND should have played better and should have won. Neither happened. It's seven years into Kelly's tenure. This was a game where Kelly's decisions to play 2 QBs and some late game play calls cost them. Players still need to execute, but the coach didn't put the team into position to win. That is the frustrating part. It started with Tulsa and starting his seventh year it continues with Texas. Not one time did he ever say " you know, I really made some bad moves today" . Heck he made a point that there were 3 freshman playing in the defensive back end. Well who's fault is that? Maybe years one and two that's acceptable. But year 7? He should have depth by now. He's recruiting. Upperclassmen should be playing. Freshman should be learning, unless they are extremely great. That's how programs sustain. By the time freshman turn to juniors they know their job and are ready to play. There is absolutely no excuse for the defense to give up 50 points. None! Kelly won't even take responsibility. Look I'm not hoping for a miracle. The writing is clear. Simply look at the facts. Kelly is an above average coach who mostly will win 8 to 9 games a year. Not bad. But you know what? I go back to the beginning of the seventies. Two losses was a nightmare. For me 9 and 3 , 8 and 4 is a lousy season. Regardless of the year, I will never be happy with that. Notre Dame should always stand for excellence in the classroom and on the field. That's what makes them Notre Dame. Kelly isn't the guy to deliver that. Not sure who is, but it isn't him.

 

[perseverare]

bothers me because the game was decided by staff decisions as much or more than the play on the field.

there have been games like that in all the seasons except '12; the luckiest season of football for a team that's mantra is 'the luck o the Irish'

how can a fan not be troubled by that?

 

[bizzybecknd]

I agree with the OP. I feel worse after the UT loss, Clemson, FSU last second, Stanford, etc then when Weis was getting beat by 40 by USC, Mich, etc. ND is verrrry close and has come miles since BK took over. We can play with 99%of the teams in the country, not sure about Bama. But yes, the decisions 3-3-5, not going for it on 4th and 7 on Sunday are extremely frustrating. That being said, I agree that ND fans need to 'pump the brakes'.

I thought ND would finish 9-3 or or 10-2 depending on the UT game, thought it was a top 3 toughest game of the year being on the road against a hostile crowd in game 1 against a team/coach that desperately needed a marquee win.

 

[88ND]

I apologize....what I meant to say was this. I meant ,.,.,.

We could absorb as fans a loss like this if we had confidence that the next big game we get in more than likely we'll win or be right there battling no matter, Bama, OSU, etc.

The problem why these losses like this hurt so much is there is no bright spot ahead.

Bama or OSU can get upset in a game and while they don't celebrate losses they know more times than not they'll win the next big game or be right there in it.

That is the problem and why this is such a tease. It sucks.

 

[Bodizephax]

I agree with the OP. I feel worse after the UT loss, Clemson, FSU last second, Stanford, etc then when Weis was getting beat by 40 by USC, Mich, etc. ND is verrrry close and has come miles since BK took over. We can play with 99%of the teams in the country, not sure about Bama. But yes, the decisions 3-3-5, not going for it on 4th and 7 on Sunday are extremely frustrating. That being said, I agree that ND fans need to 'pump the brakes'.

I thought ND would finish 9-3 or or 10-2 depending on the UT game, thought it was a top 3 toughest game of the year being on the road against a hostile crowd in game 1 against a team/coach that desperately needed a marquee win.

All is well !! Kizer was named the starter today !

 

[57Patrick]

Kelly has lost a lot of big games close such as those mentioned above. Kelly has lost games the Irish should have never lost. Kelly has also done some good things and won some big games. OK was a big win on the road and ND beat MI State when, if my memory serves me correctly, that was the only game they lost that year. You guys have mentioned the 12-0 regular season as lucky. Well maybe, but better to be lucky than good. Speaking of luck, the FSU call at the end of the game and the non target hit last week could have added two more big wins. Kelly has positioned this program to be top 10 to 15. Like you guys, I want to be consistently top 5. To do that we have to play better defense and recruit better and more defensive linemen. Only time will tell if Kelly can get us there.

 

[end_23]

All critique aside....what and why this really bothers us is .....

It kills us that we're so close but just can't win those elite games.

We all could tolerate the UT loss and very easily mind you if we all felt confident it was our bad game because on any given day we are the bench mark. We will beat top 5 teams. Not always but more times than not. Kelly just can't quite get there.

With holtz we knew playing the almighty Miami that we can play with them. Hell we'll beat them. Michigan, USC, etc. We were year in year out the benchmark and a top 5 team. So we would all be fine if we lost that game because odds are we'll run the table and if we get into the playoff we got something for anyone.

See nobody feels like that because Kelly actually at some point has to win a big game. How about winning a big game as an underdog. How about not spotting the other team two touchdowns before you start with urgency.

Excellent post 88. Exactly on point. A lot of fans don't get that beating Wake Forest and Purdue means nothing. I want to see at least an occasional big win but Kelly can't even do that. He's in too over his head here. Kelly should be at ASU or Georgia Tech. No pressure jobs.

 

[Bodizephax]

Kelly has lost a lot of big games close such as those mentioned above. Kelly has lost games the Irish should have never lost. Kelly has also done some good things and won some big games. OK was a big win on the road and ND beat MI State when, if my memory serves me correctly, that was the only game they lost that year. You guys have mentioned the 12-0 regular season as lucky. Well maybe, but better to be lucky than good. Speaking of luck, the FSU call at the end of the game and the non target hit last week could have added two more big wins. Kelly has positioned this program to be top 10 to 15. Like you guys, I want to be consistently top 5. To do that we have to play better defense and recruit better and more defensive linemen. Only time will tell if Kelly can get us there.

57Patrick good post. I think what cost us the Texas game was all the missed tackles. I believe the Coaching staff should have the players work hard on tackling in practice.

 

[end_23]

I agree with the OP. I feel worse after the UT loss, Clemson, FSU last second, Stanford, etc then when Weis was getting beat by 40 by USC, Mich, etc. ND is verrrry close and has come miles since BK took over. We can play with 99%of the teams in the country, not sure about Bama. But yes, the decisions 3-3-5, not going for it on 4th and 7 on Sunday are extremely frustrating. That being said, I agree that ND fans need to 'pump the brakes'.

I thought ND would finish 9-3 or or 10-2 depending on the UT game, thought it was a top 3 toughest game of the year being on the road against a hostile crowd in game 1 against a team/coach that desperately needed a marquee win.

ND is desperately in need of a marquee win. Helloooooooo

 

[end_23]

Kelly has lost a lot of big games close such as those mentioned above. Kelly has lost games the Irish should have never lost. Kelly has also done some good things and won some big games. OK was a big win on the road and ND beat MI State when, if my memory serves me correctly, that was the only game they lost that year. You guys have mentioned the 12-0 regular season as lucky. Well maybe, but better to be lucky than good. Speaking of luck, the FSU call at the end of the game and the non target hit last week could have added two more big wins. Kelly has positioned this program to be top 10 to 15. Like you guys, I want to be consistently top 5. To do that we have to play better defense and recruit better and more defensive linemen. Only time will tell if Kelly can get us there.

Wrong. MSU in 2012 lost six games. Msu-2012 was a garbage team. Coach Kelly is 1-10 combined on the road in big games and in major bowl games. He's basically becoming our John Cooper. Couldn't win at Ann Arbor and can't beat Stanford in Palo Alto. He's got one damn win in that category, Oklahoma. That's pathetic.

 

[mmboys07]

Hold on there. This was not an elite team we lost to and that is what bothers me. I still believe we should have beaten them easily but Kelly was out-coached and the team was not prepared. BVG should have been fired at halftime.

I waited 9 months for the season to start and had to witness that debacle. Every time I start to give Kelly the benefit of the doubt, the team comes out and stinks the joint up. I will not be fooled again.

"The team was not prepared." Exactly. This is what bothers me the most; the team just never seems ready to deal with the attack of the other team. Every team since North Carolina a couple of years ago, has used up temp against the Irish, and Kelly never seems to have an answer.

 

[IrishMike409]

We were up, with the ball, late. Shoulda let the OL take over. Run the ball, get some first downs, and end the damn game.

We had the game in hand a few times. I'm furious that it slipped away. Our OL should be able to take games over.

 

[88ND]

Kelly has lost a lot of big games close such as those mentioned above. Kelly has lost games the Irish should have never lost. Kelly has also done some good things and won some big games. OK was a big win on the road and ND beat MI State when, if my memory serves me correctly, that was the only game they lost that year. You guys have mentioned the 12-0 regular season as lucky. Well maybe, but better to be lucky than good. Speaking of luck, the FSU call at the end of the game and the non target hit last week could have added two more big wins. Kelly has positioned this program to be top 10 to 15. Like you guys, I want to be consistently top 5. To do that we have to play better defense and recruit better and more defensive linemen. Only time will tell if Kelly can get us there.

A few things,
Good teams overcome those calls. Once in a while the refs might get you but it can't be a themed excuse.

Lastly...you say only time will tell if Kelly can get us there.
How much time do you need? Seriously...

Moreover..we lost all momentum, Texas just scored. Going up by three. Wait a sec, blocked pat, returned, two points for us , tied game plus we get the ball, with momentum now after the blocked pat...
And we just couldn't close the show. Over and over..
Sound familiar?



Our players don't know how to win because our ****ing coach doesn't know how to win.

 

[88ND]

"The team was not prepared." Exactly. This is what bothers me the most; the team just never seems ready to deal with the attack of the other team. Every team since North Carolina a couple of years ago, has used up temp against the Irish, and Kelly never seems to have an answer.

Because when a team goes slow and huddles up...BVG defense is a cluster confusing **** to our own players ...

Up tempo turns us into a disaster.

 

[sshulk]

What bothers me is we have given up 132 points in our last 3 games ... In 2 of them we had 4th qtr leads and still lost ... One we led with 25 seconds and our opponent drive the entire field ... Our bad defense is costing us game after game and our head coach says "tap the breaks" ... No defense = no playoffs

 

[BGI User 1596]

What bothers me is we have given up 132 points in our last 3 games ... In 2 of them we had 4th qtr leads and still lost ... One we led with 25 seconds and our opponent drive the entire field ... Our bad defense is costing us game after game and our head coach says "tap the breaks" ... No defense = no playoffs

It's the scheme- it's up to Kelly to get this sorted and quickly

 

[perseverare]

the only way to get a marque win in '16 is to get to a major post season appearance.
ND needs to get to 10-2, at worse.

 

[BGI User 1596]

the only way to get a marque win in '16 is to get to a major post season appearance.
ND needs to get to 10-2, at worse.

Kelly did admit that the coaching has to be better - he has some good staff members {BVG sucks} - these guys unfortunately have to step up and Bail-Out BVG otherwise
no chance in hell.

 

[perseverare]

Kelly did admit that the coaching has to be better - he has some good staff members {BVG sucks} - these guys unfortunately have to step up and Bail-Out BVG otherwise
no chance in hell.

from Pvt Ryan: "earn this"

Going forward I question the competency of every member of that staff, including Sanford. Let them show they deserve a 'well done' or atta boys, based upon their performance at ND, not by reputation earned elsewheres!

I can't say this is good staff. They just got 'pantsed by a relatively newly formed UT staff! humiliated a more apt description.

 

[BGI User 1596]

from Pvt Ryan: "earn this"

Going forward I question the competency of every member of that staff, including Sanford. Let them show they deserve a 'well done' or atta boys, based upon their performance at ND, not by reputation earned elsewheres!

I can't say this is good staff. They just got 'pantsed by a relatively newly formed UT staff! humiliated a more apt description.

Kelly is CEO - if your not part of the solution then you're part of the problem - its time to extirpate the problems on staff.

 

[cgvr]

This was a big game because it was Texas. Also it's the first game. But, I would not categorize it as an eltite game. Nevertheless, ND should have played better and should have won. Neither happened. It's seven years into Kelly's tenure. This was a game where Kelly's decisions to play 2 QBs and some late game play calls cost them. Players still need to execute, but the coach didn't put the team into position to win. That is the frustrating part. It started with Tulsa and starting his seventh year it continues with Texas. Not one time did he ever say " you know, I really made some bad moves today" . Heck he made a point that there were 3 freshman playing in the defensive back end. Well who's fault is that? Maybe years one and two that's acceptable. But year 7? He should have depth by now. He's recruiting. Upperclassmen should be playing. Freshman should be learning, unless they are extremely great. That's how programs sustain. By the time freshman turn to juniors they know their job and are ready to play. There is absolutely no excuse for the defense to give up 50 points. None! Kelly won't even take responsibility. Look I'm not hoping for a miracle. The writing is clear. Simply look at the facts. Kelly is an above average coach who mostly will win 8 to 9 games a year. Not bad. But you know what? I go back to the beginning of the seventies. Two losses was a nightmare. For me 9 and 3 , 8 and 4 is a lousy season. Regardless of the year, I will never be happy with that. Notre Dame should always stand for excellence in the classroom and on the field. That's what makes them Notre Dame. Kelly isn't the guy to deliver that. Not sure who is, but it isn't him.

He had a chance to go for the jugular after one of the greatest Special Teams plays in ND history and instead folded like a tent. In fact, there were multiple chances to put this game on ice and he gagged.
Miserable loss and it's all on him and bvg....

 

[cgvr]

57Patrick good post. I think what cost us the Texas game was all the missed tackles. I believe the Coaching staff should have the players work hard on tackling in practice.

This may be your most astute observation ever. Please telegram it to the staff!
"I believe the Coaching staff should have the players work hard on tackling in practice."

 

[bizzybecknd]

ND is desperately in need of a marquee win. Helloooooooo

And you would have considered beating and unranked Texas team that ND beat by 35 last year a marquee win? Laughable, helooo. I highly doubt you see a 'marquee win' on this years schedule so BK is in a lose lose situation. Could go 11-1 but hell that schedule was soft. Texas was in need of this win way more than the #10 ranked Irish.

 

[NDBob24]

Wrong. MSU in 2012 lost six games. Msu-2012 was a garbage team. Coach Kelly is 1-10 combined on the road in big games and in major bowl games. He's basically becoming our John Cooper. Couldn't win at Ann Arbor and can't beat Stanford in Palo Alto. He's got one damn win in that category, Oklahoma. That's pathetic.

I think he meant 2013. Michigan State lost one game - ND.

 

[cgvr]

I think he meant 2013. Michigan State lost one game - ND.

Correct and at the time ND was 2-1 (ranked # 22 AP).
msu was unranked.
We remained number 22 after the W.
msu cracked the top 25 five weeks later at # 24.

 

[bizzybecknd]

Correct and at the time ND was 2-1 (ranked # 22 AP).
msu was unranked.
We remained number 22 after the W.
msu cracked the top 25 five weeks later at # 24.

So he beat an unranked MSU team? Got it.

 

[Headwaters]

All critique aside....what and why this really bothers us is .....

It kills us that we're so close but just can't win those elite games.

We all could tolerate the UT loss and very easily mind you if we all felt confident it was our bad game because on any given day we are the bench mark. We will beat top 5 teams. Not always but more times than not. Kelly just can't quite get there.

With holtz we knew playing the almighty Miami that we can play with them. Hell we'll beat them. Michigan, USC, etc. We were year in year out the benchmark and a top 5 team. So we would all be fine if we lost that game because odds are we'll run the table and if we get into the playoff we got something for anyone.

See nobody feels like that because Kelly actually at some point has to win a big game. How about winning a big game as an underdog. How about not spotting the other team two touchdowns before you start with urgency.

"so close but just can't win those elite games"... Texas? Are you kidding? They were a 7 loss team in 2015 and are likely a 4-5 loss team in 2016. Far from elite, converging on being decent. But I think you make a good point in that KeLLLy has very wins in 6+ years as an underdog, which speaks volumes, along with the fact that he has no meaningful bowl wins.

 

[Bodizephax]

What bothers me is we have given up 132 points in our last 3 games ... In 2 of them we had 4th qtr leads and still lost ... One we led with 25 seconds and our opponent drive the entire field ... Our bad defense is costing us game after game and our head coach says "tap the breaks" ... No defense = no playoffs

Kizer is the starter and will throw and run for at least 5 or 6 Tds a game and we will make the playoffs ! Maybe this song will cheer you up !

 

[88ND]

"so close but just can't win those elite games"... Texas? Are you kidding? They were a 7 loss team in 2015 and are likely a 4-5 loss team in 2016. Far from elite, converging on being decent. But I think you make a good point in that KeLLLy has very wins in 6+ years as an underdog, which speaks volumes, along with the fact that he has no meaningful bowl wins.

Texas being elite is debatable. I was using elite as in the whole of the moment Sunday night. If it's gut check time...we choke on our guts. Always.

We don't defy the odds. Never ever ever.

There is NO 1988 Notre Dame vs. Miami in Brian Kelly football. AS AN EXAMPLE. SADLY.

 

[cgvr]

So he beat an unranked MSU team? Got it.

The hype surrounding the game was stupendous.

 

[perseverare]

Texas being elite is debatable. I was using elite as in the whole of the moment Sunday night. If it's gut check time...we choke on our guts. Always.

We don't defy the odds. Never ever ever.

There is NO 1988 Notre Dame vs. Miami in Brian Kelly football. AS AN EXAMPLE. SADLY.

I think you can feel pretty confident this Saturday. Practice your fist pumping and chest pounding!
As difficult as the board has been this week, next week it will enter bizzarro!

 

[Irish Grandeur]

All critique aside....what and why this really bothers us is .....

It kills us that we're so close but just can't win those elite games.

We all could tolerate the UT loss and very easily mind you if we all felt confident it was our bad game because on any given day we are the bench mark. We will beat top 5 teams. Not always but more times than not. Kelly just can't quite get there.

With holtz we knew playing the almighty Miami that we can play with them. Hell we'll beat them. Michigan, USC, etc. We were year in year out the benchmark and a top 5 team. So we would all be fine if we lost that game because odds are we'll run the table and if we get into the playoff we got something for anyone.

See nobody feels like that because Kelly actually at some point has to win a big game. How about winning a big game as an underdog. How about not spotting the other team two touchdowns before you start with urgency.

It bothers me so much because the coaching staff played conservative/for OT with over seven minutes left! Kizer was HOT and Texas could not stop ND's offense firing with Kizer at the helm.

 

[Sarah_Plain_And_Tall]

This may be your most astute observation ever. Please telegram it to the staff!
"I believe the Coaching staff should have the players work hard on tackling in practice."

LOL. Captain Obvious