It ridiculous that our defense shows zero improvement from the start to end of season. Clearly whatever this guy is coaching isn't working. Ridiculous we can't hold a lead 25 seconds. After tonight I fear Notre Dame will never win a title again. We simply are not good enough to compete at that level. That is the toughest thing for me to realize, but I fear that that is what it is.
VanGorder must go
- Thread starter DieHard_Irish
- Start date
**** you internet pocket pen protecting losers that team is a blue-collar Southie team unlike u internet bitches step into south boston u mfers will get your jaw broke u dweebs
First off Danny you are the one on here talking a big game over the internet my man. We are on here trying to talk about the Notre Dame football program going forward and you are talking crap about internet tough guys when you are the only one trying to be an internet tough guy. I live in Rhode Island and have been to Southie many times my man. Ive won some and ive lost some just like the Irish!!!
A lot of youth on this team... Josh Adams is amazing! How good will our backfield be next year?! And the O-line is solid. Have to agree about the Defense. This scheme just doesn't work for our guys... We never really seem to get to the QB and with a lot of new guys next year we are going to have to simplify and let athletes play. (Just like with Clemson the D came out flat and were dominated.) Say what you want about Kelly but his teams never give up, and offensively they can play with anyone. (But Brian -- please, rethink the red f-ing zone!)
Proud of our boys this year. After watching a vaunted UCLA team who was picked as a top ten team just dominated by USC and Michigan get embarrassed, I am proud of the way our team performed. We really had that game. Disappointed but excited about the future.
If Diaco had been our d-coordinator this year this team would have been a final four team.
Proud of our boys this year. After watching a vaunted UCLA team who was picked as a top ten team just dominated by USC and Michigan get embarrassed, I am proud of the way our team performed. We really had that game. Disappointed but excited about the future.
If Diaco had been our d-coordinator this year this team would have been a final four team.
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Our schedule is very difficult next year with some tough road games. This year was our best chance to win it all. Plus we will have a QB controversy.
Todd Lyght might be like Wayne Gretzky. Great player...mediocre coach. Most good coaches weren't all American, pro-bowlers.
I wonder how . BK feels about his defensive caoching staff. It's a very new group. My only question is the lack of talent in the secondary. It's awful. I do not care about scheme . I look at fundamentals. This team lacks that. Is it poor coaching or bad talent? Either way that is on the HC . IF Van Gorder cannot recruit the talent needed to win the he must go. Offer Bud Foster the world if that is what it's going to take to win. I look at talent recruited on the defensive side of the ball the past 2 years and it is bad. So bad that Hunter Jr. Had to play nickel . No depth at DL and LB. safeties are the worst I have ever seen at ND. WHo is to blame?
You can tell well educated guys from cavemen. Also true football fans from those who only threaten others whom disagree.
Disagree with all of you dogging Van Gorder. Our defense helped us win 10 games. If you had told me before the season - we would have some significant Defensive injuries we would have to overcome - that ND would be 10-1 going into the last game w/ a chance to get to the final 4 in our last game - I know for a fact every true ND fan in the world would of taken that 100 times out 100.
The Stanford offense is a GREAT offense - an Offense that can BOTH Run and Pass the ball. A very difficult offense to stop. They have a 5th year QB who can get extremely hot at times who also is a dangerous runner. They have a RB who is a Heisman candidate. Their O line is pretty dam good.
Stanford had the 20th ranked scoring offense in the Nation. They have put up big points on everyone except Northwestern in their first game.
ND's D did a pretty good job of giving us a chance to win yesterday vs. a great offense.
ND's D helped us win 10 games this season. IMO this year has been a great, great season - a season where ND has shown they are BACK and are a factor and they are "in the discussion" of being a CFP team. We will have a great bowl game to go to against a great team.
Our overall talent base is as good as we've had in 20 years. The recruiting to ND has been outstanding.
A lot of you guys need to chill out on Van Gorder and quit throwing him under the bus.
The Stanford offense is a GREAT offense - an Offense that can BOTH Run and Pass the ball. A very difficult offense to stop. They have a 5th year QB who can get extremely hot at times who also is a dangerous runner. They have a RB who is a Heisman candidate. Their O line is pretty dam good.
Stanford had the 20th ranked scoring offense in the Nation. They have put up big points on everyone except Northwestern in their first game.
ND's D did a pretty good job of giving us a chance to win yesterday vs. a great offense.
ND's D helped us win 10 games this season. IMO this year has been a great, great season - a season where ND has shown they are BACK and are a factor and they are "in the discussion" of being a CFP team. We will have a great bowl game to go to against a great team.
Our overall talent base is as good as we've had in 20 years. The recruiting to ND has been outstanding.
A lot of you guys need to chill out on Van Gorder and quit throwing him under the bus.
I sure as hell don't know the answer, but the question of whether Van Gorder with the right personnel is the answer or not, has to be on everyone's mind. Kelly clearly suggested during the week that we don't have the right kind of talent yet in place to play Van Gorder's schemes effectively. Regardless, as a fan, it is beyond frustrating to see receivers regularly getting so far open behind our secondary, and opposing QBs having too much time and career nights against us. Kelly has to know this has to be fixed, and fixed for next year, and that would suggest we need to hit some home runs on the recruiting trail at DB and DL if Van Gorder is to remain our DC.
Well I don't try to make blueberry muffins if I don't have blueberries. A good coordinator will adjust to his players. Don't remember Tommy Rees playing in this offense.
3 TD drives were aided by calls by the officials
1) The 3rd down conversion where the receiver was easily a half yard short ... should've been a 4th and 1 near midfield ..... probably punts
Amazing that this was not reviewed half as fast as Hogan's fumble that almost moved the ball from ND's 3 to the 5 .... they were quick on one .... while the announce noticed the guy a half yard short .... oh well ... play continued
2) 3rd and long converted when inc pass call on the sideline was reversed .... did the guy have control or bobble it .... the db slightly deflected it ... I thought evidence had to be conclusive .... apparently not (Pac 12 video crew)
3) The TD drive aided by the worst pass int call all year .... just atrocious
Any one or all of these drives are stopped or have a lot better odds of being stopped ..... ND received zero breaks to flat out bad calls .... this makes it a lot harder to play D
1) The 3rd down conversion where the receiver was easily a half yard short ... should've been a 4th and 1 near midfield ..... probably punts
Amazing that this was not reviewed half as fast as Hogan's fumble that almost moved the ball from ND's 3 to the 5 .... they were quick on one .... while the announce noticed the guy a half yard short .... oh well ... play continued
2) 3rd and long converted when inc pass call on the sideline was reversed .... did the guy have control or bobble it .... the db slightly deflected it ... I thought evidence had to be conclusive .... apparently not (Pac 12 video crew)
3) The TD drive aided by the worst pass int call all year .... just atrocious
Any one or all of these drives are stopped or have a lot better odds of being stopped ..... ND received zero breaks to flat out bad calls .... this makes it a lot harder to play D
Agree and especially true vs. a great offense. Was at the game and felt like we were getting homered whenever the Pac 12 Refs could homer us.
If Drue Tranquill still play yesterday night. He will lead for ND to win game vs Stanford.
Christ, I can't believe you guys are complaining about the refs. Someone was even suggesting they did not overturn Kizer's last TD because even though he looked short because giving us the TD saved time for Stanford's final drive. Ridiculous. If anyone at ND actually thought the refs screwed us even 10 percent as much as some of our fans do, they would have dropped sports years ago.
Was at the game - and then re-watched the first half last night. Will watch the second half sometime this week. On Stanford's very first drive - they had a 3rd and 5 at their own 45. The receiver caught the ball a good half yard to full yard short of the 1st down marker and the side line official comes in and automatically singles fist down and spots the ball a good 1/2 yard to full yard past of where it should of been spotted. 4th 1 from their own 49 yard line and they are punting on that first drive. That call cost us 7 points right there.
My question is - couldn't of ND asked for a review of the spot ? IF yes, they need a person who's job is too buzz BK of when he needs to ask for a challenge.
The refs extended 3 of their drives w/ bad calls that later lead to TD's - the first drive was one of them.
Also, I know when you are on the road - good teams have to overcome calls like that - it's just very frustrating when it happens to the team you are rooting for. And Stanford did not need any extra help. Our Defense when I re-watched that first half actually played ok. That first drive and then our last drive that ended in a fumble could very easily had us up 10 at the half and w/ the ball to start the second half. Game could of easily been a very nice win for ND and a very great opportunity at the the final 4.
Feel like if we play Stanford 10 times we beat them 6 or 7 out of 10 times. Felt like we were the better overall team.
Feel like if we play Stanford 10 times we beat them 6 or 7 out of 10 times. Felt like we were the better overall team.
Honestly I have say, I am completely numb right about the lose... just don't get it... why hasn't our defense progressed like our offense....what are we missing?
I used to feel this way about Diaco. I would watch defenders stay on their blocks while the ball carrier ran right past them. It was the most frustrating thing in the world to me. Under BVG the players are getting off of blocks and making tackles.
Sure, I can see tons of room for improvement but I do like the more aggressive approach with this defense. The players are just not 'there' right now and the scheme needs to be simplified a bit to allow for a more natural flow for the athletes ND has now, IMO.
I am not big on calling players out but Redfield is still playing like he did in the Army All American game. He has the speed to be where he needs to be but not in on the play. It's like he is a spectator out on the field. ND's defense will not be good under any coordinator until they get good play out of the safety position.
Scheme is too hard...lmao! You see guys get picked up in the NFL often. Detroit lions picked up two CBs, two weeks in a row. They played that week. Made big plays. Coaches coach and our coaches have schematic advantages and a Mensa Scheme. The irony is that ND kids passed academic standards, but they don't know the system until they're juniors?
It did seem that our DB's for some reason had a hard time "making plays on the ball" - I know DB is not an easy position to play - but, it seems many times they were in the right position, but failed at making a play on the ball and either knocking the ball away or disrupting the completion.
And then we had some miss plays where a receiver got behind us for some easy catches. IF we can clean up the times when our DB's are actually in a spot to make a play - to then FINISH the play - we will be fine next season. Hopefully there is a lot of work in that area before the bowl game.
And then we had some miss plays where a receiver got behind us for some easy catches. IF we can clean up the times when our DB's are actually in a spot to make a play - to then FINISH the play - we will be fine next season. Hopefully there is a lot of work in that area before the bowl game.
I think Kelly is in between a rock and a hard place when it comes to BVG. This defense in a word is inconsistent. As frustrated as I am with BVG, I'm really not a fan of bringing in a new guy and a new system and then possibly having to recruit specific type of athletes to fit the new system. With that said, I think it's best BVG gets one more year. I do think the biggest issue for the defense is lack of depth/recruiting. Not to knock on Schmidt, but a former walk on should never be a full time starter at ND. James onwualu is a former WR playing LB and just seems so lost playing the position. Okwara finally gave us decent but not great pass rush, but outside of him no one could consistently rush the passer, which hurt the secondary. Redfield is a great athlete, but just can't seem to match talent with production for whatever reason. The DBs always seem to be so close yet so far away from making to allowing a big play. I think what's difficult is that there isn't much competition for the starting jobs as a lot of guys on defense knew they'd be starting regardless of how poorly they played at times. You could tell the staff really didn't line playing Farley in place of Redfield, as Redfield is really the only true free safety on the roster. This again goes back to recruiting. If theres room for 5th year seniors in the roster ti come play for ND for one year I'd look for safeties, corners, and defensive ends. Lastly, If we can get quality AND depth on defense similar to what the offense has, then we should see improvement.
This is the problem with BVG...
the defense is his baby through and through. Having said that the tackling is some of the worst in all of football, particularly the back seven. Even Jaylon tends to frankenstein the ball carrier.
Question...why is our most text book tackler our biggest player. The very person who is defying the laws of physics making properly form tackles is Sheldon Day. One player out of 11 on defense making good clean tackles. It's not that hard unless you are LAZY! Bend knees, face mask up, shoulder to one side, wrap arms preferably behind the knees, lift, finish on top.
If BVG is running tackling drills at practice then he needs to dismiss himself yesterday. If someone else is running said tackling practice and drills then BVG is allowing a simple WRONG to become a major detriment.
Either way it's wrong. We don't even have to cover the x's and o's, confusion or not, depth, etc etc.
You see....talent does not make a tackler. A player with average or below ability can text book tackle. He may not get in position in time or have his tackle broken by a far superior athlete but the actual form tackle itself anyone can do it provided it is reaffirmed over and over. Muscle memory footwork all things that need to stay polished up.
This is the big problem you see. We have people in position all the time to make a first down saving...touchdown saving tackle...and what happens? Players launching themselves out of control. Players not closing the gap(distance) and breaking down, but rather stand there flat footed which instantly gives the ball carrier a complete advantage. Players wanting to frankenstein the tackle. Or worse yet they don't even get their arms out but just use a shoulder hoping to knock a player down, yet most times they just look foolish. They might have been able to get away with highlight hits in high school but these are not the same opposing players you faced in high school. They are of equal or even better talent but you are still close enough in the talent department to make the god damn tackle....IF DONE CORRECTLY! ! ! !
the defense is his baby through and through. Having said that the tackling is some of the worst in all of football, particularly the back seven. Even Jaylon tends to frankenstein the ball carrier.
Question...why is our most text book tackler our biggest player. The very person who is defying the laws of physics making properly form tackles is Sheldon Day. One player out of 11 on defense making good clean tackles. It's not that hard unless you are LAZY! Bend knees, face mask up, shoulder to one side, wrap arms preferably behind the knees, lift, finish on top.
If BVG is running tackling drills at practice then he needs to dismiss himself yesterday. If someone else is running said tackling practice and drills then BVG is allowing a simple WRONG to become a major detriment.
Either way it's wrong. We don't even have to cover the x's and o's, confusion or not, depth, etc etc.
You see....talent does not make a tackler. A player with average or below ability can text book tackle. He may not get in position in time or have his tackle broken by a far superior athlete but the actual form tackle itself anyone can do it provided it is reaffirmed over and over. Muscle memory footwork all things that need to stay polished up.
This is the big problem you see. We have people in position all the time to make a first down saving...touchdown saving tackle...and what happens? Players launching themselves out of control. Players not closing the gap(distance) and breaking down, but rather stand there flat footed which instantly gives the ball carrier a complete advantage. Players wanting to frankenstein the tackle. Or worse yet they don't even get their arms out but just use a shoulder hoping to knock a player down, yet most times they just look foolish. They might have been able to get away with highlight hits in high school but these are not the same opposing players you faced in high school. They are of equal or even better talent but you are still close enough in the talent department to make the god damn tackle....IF DONE CORRECTLY! ! ! !
War and Peace was shorter. We get it. You weren't happy with tackling. Give it a rest please. You would think ND went 2-10.
"An eloquent and confident speaker, Redfield has carried 18-credit academic course loads at Notre Dame per semester, most notably learning Mandarin Chinese. When asked whether VanGorder's defense or Chinese was more difficult, he paused.
"That's a pretty good question," he responded. "I would say consistently being successful in that scheme is harder than learning Chinese.
"It is the communication that is demanded from the safety as well as how many different responsibilities that can happen on a play-to-play basis. Responsibilities can change based on the formation, based on the receivers' splits — and then after the snap of the ball, based on what the receiver runs. Knowing all those different things that you have to process in a split second is a lot, as well as communicating and making sure everybody else is lined up. It's a lot, but it's something that is demanded from you.
"I feel a lot more comfortable doing it. Now I feel great about it and my team looks for me to do that, and that's exactly what I'll do."
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