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Tired of internet hacks downplaying three star recruits

C

continually35forever

Shakes Down The Thunder
Jul 9, 2015
266
103
43
Eifert
Jeff S
CJ Procise
Farley
Corey Robinson
Bennet Jackson
Darius Walker

When ND starts bringing in 2 stars maybe then you can circle the wagons - until that time I have 1000 % confidence in Kelly and Staff 10000 % .

Re player development -

Procise was recruited as a safety - Farley a WR - Onawalu WR -K Russell RB - staff has done a marvelous job in that area

re game plans

LSU - Zaire gained 96 yds running the ball and threw short stuff going 12-15 . ND gained 150 more yds and scored 18 more pts vs LSU than Alabama did

I look forward to the season coming up .
 
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Did not know someone could have 10000% confidence in someone else. The facts are the facts and except for 2012 when the team was extremely lucky and had higher ranked recruits (many from Weis), Kelly's 3- star solution results in 8-5 seasons.
 
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continually35forever said:
Eifert
Jeff S
CJ Procise
Farley
Corey Robinson
Bennet Jackson
Darius Walker

When ND starts bringing in 2 stars maybe then you can circle the wagons - until that time I have 1000 % confidence in Kelly and Staff 10000 % .

Re player development -

Procise was recruited as a safety - Farley a WR - Onawalu WR -K Russell RB - staff has done a marvelous job in that area

re game plans

LSU - Zaire gained 96 yds running the ball and threw short stuff going 12-15 . ND gained 150 more yds and scored 18 more pts vs LSU than Alabama did

I look forward to the season coming up .
Click to expand...

This post is a complete misunderstanding of the concern that people have with too many 3-star recruits.
 
Let me explain it this way. We get who we CAN get. For the most part, Kelly would never take a 3-star over a 5-star kid, no coach would. However because of academics (either people not qualifying for ND or athletes not wanting to deal with ND's curriculum) ND doesn't have the same opportunity to get the 5-star athletes like some other schools.
 
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I'm tired of liberals aborting babies and homer fans that think their team is going 12-0 every year when in fact they usually go 8-4.
 
continually35forever said:
Thanks for the counsel - I look forward to you straightening me out on the subject
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No one (with half a brain) who has issues with our recruiting has ever claimed that 3-star players cannot be successful. Clearly, there are multiple examples of 3-star, 2-star and 1-star players who are successful. Putting together a list of seven 3-star players who matriculated into Notre Dame over the past 13 recruiting classes does little to advance your argument.
 
NDEwing18 said:
No one (with half a brain) who has issues with our recruiting has ever claimed that 3-star players cannot be successful. Clearly, there are multiple examples of 3-star, 2-star and 1-star players who are successful. Putting together a list of seven 3-star players who matriculated into Notre Dame over the past 13 recruiting classes does little to advance your argument.
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Well said. Maybe Continual35, Classic irish and the other Pom Pom Sis-Boom-Ba posters will finally understand
 
continually35forever said:
Eifert
Jeff S
CJ Procise
Farley
Corey Robinson
Bennet Jackson
Darius Walker

When ND starts bringing in 2 stars maybe then you can circle the wagons - until that time I have 1000 % confidence in Kelly and Staff 10000 % .

Re player development -

Procise was recruited as a safety - Farley a WR - Onawalu WR -K Russell RB - staff has done a marvelous job in that area

re game plans

LSU - Zaire gained 96 yds running the ball and threw short stuff going 12-15 . ND gained 150 more yds and scored 18 more pts vs LSU than Alabama did

I look forward to the season coming up .
Click to expand...

Sorry, I missed this, but where did ND put all those Championship trophies these guys help win? Is that why they're adding to the stadium - expanding the trophy room?
 
I think it was Sal who wrote several weeks ago about the change in ND recruiting tactics. Instead of waiting on the elite targets to decide, and then scramble for plan C commits when the elite select elsewhere, this staff seem focused on getting early commits from 3* whom they really like, and holding out a few options for the possible elite commitment later. There is general expectation that several of these early 3* commits this year will get bumped up in the next ratings release which seems to validate the wisdom of this approach. We are not and will not recruit like USC for example, with elite 5* guys committing to the program and in large numbers. I love the talent Kelly and staff have recruited and developed, and we will compete with USC on the field. The main difference is USC has less risk and higher probability of success, just as players like Manti and Jaylon had higher probability of success. That said, I agree with the OP that suggests critics of our 3* commitments are largely ignorant if the criticism is simply based on their rating.
 
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Telx1 said:
I think it was Sal who wrote several weeks ago about the change in ND recruiting tactics. Instead of waiting on the elite targets to decide, and then scramble for plan C commits when the elite select elsewhere, this staff seem focused on getting early commits from 3* whom they really like, and holding out a few options for the possible elite commitment later. There is general expectation that several of these early 3* commits this year will get bumped up in the next ratings release which seems to validate the wisdom of this approach. We are not and will not recruit like USC for example, with elite 5* guys committing to the program and in large numbers. I love the talent Kelly and staff have recruited and developed, and we will compete with USC on the field. The main difference is USC has less risk and higher probability of success, just as players like Manti and Jaylon had higher probability of success. That said, I agree with the OP that suggests critics of our 3* commitments are largely ignorant if the criticism is simply based on their rating.
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Tex -- it seems that most on these message boards take a default position of negativity towards the HC and respective decisions they make . I like highly rated players as much as the next guy however I see footage of some of these " 3 star " recruits and wonder what the " experts " are thinking not giving these kids higher ratings

as an example -- you want to tell me that kid James @ RB is a " 3 star " recruit , what would that kid need to do to get a 4 star rating - wear a cape ? Explosive - fast - size you kiddin me ?

Moving forward it is my guess that Kelly and staff plan to hold out a handful of scholarships for this recruiting cycle and try to land those at the top of their list esp at DE . Time will tell . Lastly if this season turns out to be anything like I think it will recruiting will take care of itself . All depends on Zaire and OL - if legit we will win 11 or 12 games and we will be one of the " go to " programs in the fall .

A couple less injuries and a bad refs call and it would have happened last yr.
 
Are you talking about Jones at RB or at recruit that has not committed to ND yet?

Rankings are limited #'s. Most services give the top 35 kids 5*, the next 300 or so 4*s and the next 1000 or so 3*
 
continually35forever said:
Eifert
Jeff S
CJ Procise
Farley
Corey Robinson
Bennet Jackson
Darius Walker

When ND starts bringing in 2 stars maybe then you can circle the wagons - until that time I have 1000 % confidence in Kelly and Staff 10000 % .

Re player development -

Procise was recruited as a safety - Farley a WR - Onawalu WR -K Russell RB - staff has done a marvelous job in that area

re game plans

LSU - Zaire gained 96 yds running the ball and threw short stuff going 12-15 . ND gained 150 more yds and scored 18 more pts vs LSU than Alabama did

I look forward to the season coming up .
Click to expand...
Actually if you look at data four and five stars DO succeed at a much higher percentage than three stars. There are many. many more three stars than four or five stars so there are always exceptions to point to. That's why coach go after the higher ranked recruits. What I would suggest is that it is way to early to judge your team. Many of the 3 stars you have will move up in ranking or move on the other teams before February.
 
continually35forever said:
Tex -- it seems that most on these message boards take a default position of negativity towards the HC and respective decisions they make . I like highly rated players as much as the next guy however I see footage of some of these " 3 star " recruits and wonder what the " experts " are thinking not giving these kids higher ratings

as an example -- you want to tell me that kid James @ RB is a " 3 star " recruit , what would that kid need to do to get a 4 star rating - wear a cape ? Explosive - fast - size you kiddin me ?

Moving forward it is my guess that Kelly and staff plan to hold out a handful of scholarships for this recruiting cycle and try to land those at the top of their list esp at DE . Time will tell . Lastly if this season turns out to be anything like I think it will recruiting will take care of itself . All depends on Zaire and OL - if legit we will win 11 or 12 games and we will be one of the " go to " programs in the fall .

A couple less injuries and a bad refs call and it would have happened last yr.
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Who the hell is James? What the hell are you talking about? Please stop posting. You are embarrassing yourself.
 
Jiff_And_The_Choosy_Mothers said:
Whatever Penis4. By the way, please change your username as another poster already corrected you on your ignorance. It is Penick and he wore #44 dumbass
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Jiff_And_The_Choosy_Mothers said:
Whatever Penis4. By the way, please change your username as another poster already corrected you on your ignorance. It is Penick and he wore #44 dumbass
Click to expand...
I will try and clue you in but sure you are too dense. Jeff and the choosy.... Is as lame as one can get. Get a life and grow up.
 
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NDEwing18 said:
This post is a complete misunderstanding of the concern that people have with too many 3-star recruits.
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2 of ND's top 3 receivers this season are 3 star recruits - Robinson- Brown

I get the importance of landing highly rated players but a staff w an eye can recruit and develop quality 3 star kidsand turn them into stars ( Schmidt - Eifert - Robinson - Brown - Trumbetti ) come to mind

see previous list

my apologies if I missed the spirit of shitting on three star recruits

FYI - might be a good idea to wait till Feb 5 to judge this class -- just a suggestion

SAL - hope this isn't too random
 
continually35forever said:
2 of ND's top 3 receivers this season are 3 star recruits - Robinson- Brown

I get the importance of landing highly rated players but a staff w an eye can recruit and develop quality 3 star kidsand turn them into stars ( Schmidt - Eifert - Robinson - Brown - Trumbetti ) come to mind

see previous list

my apologies if I missed the spirit of shitting on three star recruits

FYI - might be a good idea to wait till Feb 5 to judge this class -- just a suggestion

SAL - hope this isn't too random
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Chris Brown is a star? He may be a solid contributor, but it's not like he's going to be drafted.
 
As a father of a high school football player that is being recruited down here in Texas. Let me tell you this, the ranking are complete bunk. I couldn't tell you how many stars if any my son is. But as a sophmore and junior on Varsity he consistently whipped 4 star recruits in games. Heck he even held his own as a sophomore with a current ND player. He is getting recruited by some D1's but doesn't get the attention that he deserves or what he will get after this season.

College coaches recruit genetics, they won't look at a 6' stud defensive end, instead they want a 6'4 defensive end that has no motor or intensity. I have talked to many collge coaches and they have told me this, including a now former ND coach. I would bet a good majority of the 4 and 5 star guys are pure hype and won't ever pan out. Recruiting is high stakes gambling in a lot of ways.

Then you have the coaches that will recruit any player regardless of brains. Since this subject has me hot and bothered, my son was at the Baylor camp this summer and Art Bryles told the 100 or so campers that he doesn't care about grades. He can make grades happen. Hence, they are now a good team.
 
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Being bias about your son is you god given right as a father and I think it's awesome your son will play D1 thst is something to celebrate for sure. Saying the whole system of rankings are wrong and don't matter because your son played better then players ranked higher then him is not a strong logical argument
 
SALittleGiant513 said:
Being bias about your son is you god given right as a father and I think it's awesome your son will play D1 thst is something to celebrate for sure. Saying the whole system of rankings are wrong and don't matter because your son played better then players ranked higher then him is not a strong logical argument
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My son's situation isn't the reason the system is flawed. The system is flawed because there are so many players out there that nobody can accurately evaluate a players ability, potential, etc. So you are reduced to genetics only, film of players beating up on inferior talent. Hence you get a 4 or 5 star that really can't play. There is no answer, but good coaches that can evaluate on their own and don't need a star system.
 
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Those are different arguments. I don't think anyone needs the rankings but I think the rankings have value and are given said value because the are correct more often then not statistically. The exceptions don't prove the rankings are worthless rather they just show that there are limitations to them
 
SALittleGiant513 said:
Those are different arguments. I don't think anyone needs the rankings but I think the rankings have value and are given said value because the are correct more often then not statistically. The exceptions don't prove the rankings are worthless rather they just show that there are limitations to them
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I agree they are right some and maybe most of the time. But my problem is labeling someone any star based on unsubstantiated hype. I watched a player last year become all world because he could whip a 300 pound useless player on our team. I watched his highlight video and half of it was him dominating our 300 pound center that couldn't play. This kid is being recruited by ND, OU, etc. If you watch the whole game you see no intensity, motor, etc. He was getting owned my much lesser athletes. But he has the genetics, 6'4, 240 amongst other things. We went to probably 8 college camps this summer and many of the supposed "studs" were not that good. The system is what it is, I was just trying to make the point, don't believe the hype on many of these recruits (2, 3, 4 or 5).
 
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bigfoilin said:
Obviously, there are more 2/3 stars out there.
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That actually wouldn't matter at all.

My point is that a greater majority of 2 and 3 stars do not pan out. The size of the group doesn't really have anything to do with my statement. If given the choice, you have a higher "hit" rate with 5 stars than you do 4 stars, and a higher "hit" rate with 4 stars than you do 3 stars.
 
Suspect a lot of us have some anecdotal story about some under the radar guy we knew who ended up having greater success than higher ranked guys at the next level. I knew a kid who played on a weak team in a small school league who couldn't get an offer beyond his local State college, whose dad put together tape and then went about marketing his son to the likes of ND et al, and the son ended up starting at Stanford. So yes, the ranking system is flawed and increasingly dependent on these out of season competitive camps, but the rankings are still very relevant.
 
Not sure the camps are dependent on the out of season camps. I think the services that compile rankings have a much easier route now then ever to get access to tape on players because its just much more common to have recordings now a days. I think if there is any dependence on the camps it is based on the fact that it gives the services something to write about during the off season to fuel traffic and allows for the services to re-calibrate based on first hand observations. Overall though I think it is less likely now then say 15 years ago that a kid flys so far under the radar that no one notices him.
 
Sal, the explanation for why a "few" of our commits carry a 3* when they seem to have so much talent and upside, is that they haven't competed in many of these camps, and are just now gaining traction from their performance during the summer. We disagree as to the import of these in the ranking process. "Eyes on" versus tape, etc...
 
There are a couple explanations for why there are 3-4 guys that have committed to ND could have their start ranking bumped. Summer camp invites often are attributed to exposure a player has coming out of his junior year. Post season camp invites/all-star game invites are dolled out throughout the season as the services save spots for players who break out senior year. If you didn't have summer camps its not like the ranking services would fail, they still have scouts who go an watch games. I think there is a risk of confirmation bias at play with the camps and their relationship to the services but I don't think that services are flawed because they use those camps as ways to fine tune their rankings.
 
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