The defense
- Thread starter shooter1977
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I was at the game . Watching the full field really gave me a perspective of actually how bad this defense is. IMO this team will lose the rest of their games. The safety position is in shambles. Studstill gets trow out . terrible call. The replacement Fertetta is a D2 player and Tranquill is awful. The corners play 10 yards off the ball and never make an effort to break up a pass. They don't even play the ball at all. Total joke. The front 7 changed like it was a scrimmage. No pass rush at all.
BK doesn't even know the blitz packages . Not one blitz at all. With all that being said this is the worst running game scheme in college football. This was against Syracuse that would lose to a lot of FBS teams. It is time for this coach to go.
BK doesn't even know the blitz packages . Not one blitz at all. With all that being said this is the worst running game scheme in college football. This was against Syracuse that would lose to a lot of FBS teams. It is time for this coach to go.
It's hard to say how this defense will be now.
One game is to small of a sample size to make a fair assessment
I saw Dungey run through a Tranquill tackle for a TD. How can that be? Lots of arm attempts and defensive guys trying to bump the ball carrier down. For some reason, everyone on defense looked slow. Not sure the problems have gotten any better. Until these guys make an effort to use proper tackle fundamentals, it will be a long road for not only the defense, but also stopping punt and kick off returns.
Lol dang I didn't go that far but you seem like one of the logical fans on this board that sees the same thing as me while others have no clue. The only thing I really disagree with you on is the fact BK doesn't know blitz packages unless he is running the defense now?
Regardless we aren't improving this defense unless we can get some studs on each level, especially d-end and the secondary.
Watching the top teams yesterday, we don't have the speed on defense of Clemson, Alabama , Ohio State ,Washington ,etc Stanford did look slow against the Washington Huskies .
Also , look who just woke up, USC is getting its' act together . Thought we had a good chance of winning at the coliseum after Alabama crushed them .But now ?
3 potential college coaching jobs that will be very tough , turning into decent programs UConn,Kansas, and now Purdue.
Also , look who just woke up, USC is getting its' act together . Thought we had a good chance of winning at the coliseum after Alabama crushed them .But now ?
3 potential college coaching jobs that will be very tough , turning into decent programs UConn,Kansas, and now Purdue.
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why is it the general opinion realizes the DL issue now? posters sounding the alarm before spring were crushed by the 'inner circle' for what reason? simply having a better understanding?
Recruiting predicted the current defensive woes. But how many posts were made that the DL had depth, depth with talent.... Well what say you now? Unless the current defensive line recruiting improves dramatically these issues will be with us for the next few seasons at least.
Now, the hope: a couple competant DL commits are on board, adding 2 more top prospects is a must.
The '18 class has a few D commits and also ND must close the deal with the younger Mustipher.
The LBers are a bit on the smaller, lighter side and an upgrade is needed there.
DB? aside from the top 2-3 in rotation, and over-haul looks in order.
Unless there is a talent infusion, changing the DC/HC won't dramstically change things.
Stats : 489 total yards for Syracuse with 25 1st downs , ,654 yards for ND also with 25 1st downs .as good as our passing attack was ,we still have problems with our defense . And the recruiters list ILB D. Adams and DT as our top defensive commitments in 2017,both outside top 100 with no big time prospects on our radar . This is not getting the job done on defense. Just hope in 2018 we really get big time talent and it starts with Mustipher's brother who is very highly rated as DT.
Defensive recruiting does not start in 2018, there are already some key figures on the board.
ND must battle like hell for DE Josh Paschal, LB Jacob Phillips and CB Thomas Graham. All 3 are potential studs on defense, each at a diffferent level.
ND must battle like hell for DE Josh Paschal, LB Jacob Phillips and CB Thomas Graham. All 3 are potential studs on defense, each at a diffferent level.
Yet Clemson with all that speed and talent gave up 36 points and Louisvile was on the 2 yard line to end the game.
And Clemson played well on D! That's modern college football you are either going to try to limit possessions with old school offenses like Michigan, Stanford, Wisconsin, G Tech and Navy.
Or you better be able to put 40-50 on the board. Even Saban came to this realization when he hired Kiffin, scrapped the FB, opened the formations and ran tempo. When push came to shove they handed it to Henry. But Henry's not there now and the beat goes on.
BVG wasn't fired because of the points allowed. He was fired because guys were playing like robots. I don't care how many points ND gives up this season. Just play hard, tackle clean, keep good run fits and play the coverage concepts correctly. That's something to build on.
This season is shot. Just win 6 get the Bowl practices and start fresh.
And Clemson played well on D! That's modern college football you are either going to try to limit possessions with old school offenses like Michigan, Stanford, Wisconsin, G Tech and Navy.
Or you better be able to put 40-50 on the board. Even Saban came to this realization when he hired Kiffin, scrapped the FB, opened the formations and ran tempo. When push came to shove they handed it to Henry. But Henry's not there now and the beat goes on.
BVG wasn't fired because of the points allowed. He was fired because guys were playing like robots. I don't care how many points ND gives up this season. Just play hard, tackle clean, keep good run fits and play the coverage concepts correctly. That's something to build on.
This season is shot. Just win 6 get the Bowl practices and start fresh.
all three are 2nd tier guys; but 2nd tier is better than 3rd; T.G is a high ranking player, but IMO a bit undersized considering the WR's these days.
Those kind of DB's rely on the pass rush to limit coverage time. So ... might be a problem.
ND needs to be looking a a flip to get a top tier pass rusher for the front 7; a guy that can rush the passr when he sets foot on campus and develop the rest of his game over time. None of the 17's are in that catagory.
PJM is a must for 18; hold onto the twins! and keep shopping!
IIO:
you were a poster touting this years DL as more than adequate for '16. So, maybe your assessment/expertise is not what you value it at. You disregarded posters trying to give a frank assessment of the defensive issues facing this team. You were not correct. And posters following your lead seemed to be blindsided.
Those kind of DB's rely on the pass rush to limit coverage time. So ... might be a problem.
ND needs to be looking a a flip to get a top tier pass rusher for the front 7; a guy that can rush the passr when he sets foot on campus and develop the rest of his game over time. None of the 17's are in that catagory.
PJM is a must for 18; hold onto the twins! and keep shopping!
IIO:
you were a poster touting this years DL as more than adequate for '16. So, maybe your assessment/expertise is not what you value it at. You disregarded posters trying to give a frank assessment of the defensive issues facing this team. You were not correct. And posters following your lead seemed to be blindsided.
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Perse and iio make some really good points here. The DL line recruiting has been going down since bvg took over. I was of the "this is year three BVG has to show something this year" camp. He failed miserably and the talent drop off with the showed much more than expected with "his recruits". I do believe that expectations of fans were way too high going into this year after the talent loss last year as well, but the sky is not falling on kelly.
Watching the game yesterday the defense didn't look spectacular, but looked settled. With this offense ND is going to have to play like a big 12 team, one or two stops will be the difference in winning or losing. I don't think Hudson is the answer, but misleading changes are rough. I do believe ND is set up better to play 4-3 with a mix of 3-4 simply based on recruiting availability but BVG just didn't work. If mason is let go by Vandy that would be an intriguing hire.
Watching the game yesterday the defense didn't look spectacular, but looked settled. With this offense ND is going to have to play like a big 12 team, one or two stops will be the difference in winning or losing. I don't think Hudson is the answer, but misleading changes are rough. I do believe ND is set up better to play 4-3 with a mix of 3-4 simply based on recruiting availability but BVG just didn't work. If mason is let go by Vandy that would be an intriguing hire.
Perse,
Admittedly I've been disspointed in the development of the WDE postion and Jay Hayes' ankle injury hasn't helped. So I have no problem saying that I've ben underwhelmed by theit play. With that said, do you honestly believe that the defensive line doesn't have some level of talent to it, if utilized correctly?
I've went on record in saying that I believe ND, despite their flaws, could have a 25ppg defense, which would have them 4-1 at this point. Remember, my prediction for the season was 9-3, with a chance at 10-2 if they stayed healthy and the defense overachieved on defense... Their scheme was terrible and completely flawed. That's why their DC got fired 4 games in.
Make you a deal... If this defense doesn't show signs of improvement each week, including development from the DL, at season's end I'll make a formal apology to you. It's hard for a DL to do anything when a secondary is busting coverages everywhere down field... Kelly is going to play softer, simpler coverage. Lets wait and see. But talent doesn't do everything for you Perse...
Florida State, with as much talent and starpower as you could ask for, just lost it's 2nd game of the year, with the defense getting gashed again.
Clemson and Louisville, with two of the best defenses nationally, played in an offensive shootout last night.
After getting into a shootout in which it's defense was shredded in the national title game last year, Alabama got smacked around by Ole Miss for the 2nd year in a row... and that Bama defense has a group of NFL'ers playing on it.
Brian Kelly has said it on numerous occasions. In modern college football, defenses are charged with the task of keeping points down, not win games on their own. If you can score points and keep most teams under 30, you'll be in the playoff conversation. Under 25 and you're likely a yop 15 team each year... With what ND can accomplish in recruiting, sub 25 points and an increase in turnovers (for plus field position) ought to be the goal. The rest is on the offense. That's how it works these days.
Just to reiterate, if this defense doesn't show improvement by year's end, especially along the DL as the secondary grows up, you'll have your formal apology.
Admittedly I've been disspointed in the development of the WDE postion and Jay Hayes' ankle injury hasn't helped. So I have no problem saying that I've ben underwhelmed by theit play. With that said, do you honestly believe that the defensive line doesn't have some level of talent to it, if utilized correctly?
I've went on record in saying that I believe ND, despite their flaws, could have a 25ppg defense, which would have them 4-1 at this point. Remember, my prediction for the season was 9-3, with a chance at 10-2 if they stayed healthy and the defense overachieved on defense... Their scheme was terrible and completely flawed. That's why their DC got fired 4 games in.
Make you a deal... If this defense doesn't show signs of improvement each week, including development from the DL, at season's end I'll make a formal apology to you. It's hard for a DL to do anything when a secondary is busting coverages everywhere down field... Kelly is going to play softer, simpler coverage. Lets wait and see. But talent doesn't do everything for you Perse...
Florida State, with as much talent and starpower as you could ask for, just lost it's 2nd game of the year, with the defense getting gashed again.
Clemson and Louisville, with two of the best defenses nationally, played in an offensive shootout last night.
After getting into a shootout in which it's defense was shredded in the national title game last year, Alabama got smacked around by Ole Miss for the 2nd year in a row... and that Bama defense has a group of NFL'ers playing on it.
Brian Kelly has said it on numerous occasions. In modern college football, defenses are charged with the task of keeping points down, not win games on their own. If you can score points and keep most teams under 30, you'll be in the playoff conversation. Under 25 and you're likely a yop 15 team each year... With what ND can accomplish in recruiting, sub 25 points and an increase in turnovers (for plus field position) ought to be the goal. The rest is on the offense. That's how it works these days.
Just to reiterate, if this defense doesn't show improvement by year's end, especially along the DL as the secondary grows up, you'll have your formal apology.
Another top notch reply that made me do a spit take with my coffee. Funny stuff.
IIO
Hayes injury does not help; the thing with the DL is that they are all more like the stay at home guy while that 'pass rush' guy goes after the QB. The pass rush guy is MIA, cause he is not on the roster.
only Rochell is a starter on most any other team. JT should not even be on D.
So, no overall there is a dearth of talent on the DL (Fr. get a pass as yet)"
I am not looking for an apology, just some D linemen: can you suit up?
Do you recall the Ewell commit? A recruitnik said if he was in camp now he would already be ND's best DL.
yikes!
I expect the D to be a tad better because they will try to keep plays in front of them as Diaco did.
The D will give up yds and be on the field a lot; only tightening up in the RZ.
Back to bend, don't break. to cover up weak areas. It might help.
The only solution, when push comes to shove: is recruiting.
Hayes injury does not help; the thing with the DL is that they are all more like the stay at home guy while that 'pass rush' guy goes after the QB. The pass rush guy is MIA, cause he is not on the roster.
only Rochell is a starter on most any other team. JT should not even be on D.
So, no overall there is a dearth of talent on the DL (Fr. get a pass as yet)"
I am not looking for an apology, just some D linemen: can you suit up?
Do you recall the Ewell commit? A recruitnik said if he was in camp now he would already be ND's best DL.
yikes!
I expect the D to be a tad better because they will try to keep plays in front of them as Diaco did.
The D will give up yds and be on the field a lot; only tightening up in the RZ.
Back to bend, don't break. to cover up weak areas. It might help.
The only solution, when push comes to shove: is recruiting.
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There's a better chance of Purse being named Head Football Coach at ND. Then there is of you having to issue a formal apology.
As I stated earlier BVG wasnt fired because of PPG. He was fired because he couldnt get his players to play good football at full speed.
Alabama did not scrap the FB. and after 7 seasons coach Kelly's offense has put up good offensive numbers with a high turnover rates (record setting in fact, and another shot season. I would think the experiment is a failure thus far.
BTW Henry didn't win the Heisman because push came to shove.
GEEZ!
ND offense is averaging 40 points a game. The season is shot because of the defense. Even someone like yourself who has never played or coached should be able to comprehend that stupid simple fact. GEEZ!
Your welcome for schooling you on the FACT Alabama is a 1 back Spread team.
That's why I coach football. And you post drivel on a message board. You know nothing.
You don't know enough to agree or disagree with me. Your answer should be NA.
Yes I have played the game
Yes you are coach laundry boy
Yes NDs defense is one of the reasons the season is shot, but others season's were shot due to RZ failures, turnover at a high level, and poor coaching decisions
And yes Alabama used a FB in the Kiffin era
Ask Michael Nysewander (3 time NC FB)
Try watching the game, and spend less time sounding silly on this board between wash loads
Btw coach does oxyclean work good as advertised
Kizer is averaging 40 ppg, everyone else is along for the ride. If he heads to the NFL it will be back to the same pathetic offense we saw in years 1-5
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