The Committee should never again invite ND

[irishalice]

Not going to run off on your errand to supply links. The #2 team in the SEC, the Big 12 and the ACC are typically in the top 20. Not sure about the Pac 12.

No, I do not want ND forced into a conference. Totally up the them. I don't want them invited to the Playoffs because they stayed home while someone else lost in a game ND opted out of. But when the field is expanded to 8 this confersation won't matter.

Can't back up your facts, fine. You brought it up not me. I link my facts.
Again, Bama and OSU have both made the playoff while not participating in a conference championship game. It is not mandatory for ND to be in a conference for football until then...

 

[Cumberlandsc]

Can't back up your facts, fine. You brought it up not me. I link my facts.
Again, Bama and OSU have both made the playoff while not participating in a conference championship game. It is not mandatory for ND to be in a conference for football until then...

No really, link or not, its a fact. #2 team in those conferences is typcially top 20. Fact. You and I both know it. Maybe top 25.

But sure, I agree, is not required. My point is that tonight showed why it should be. Subjectivity gets the wrong teams in. As we saw.

See my comments about this not being an anti ND take. I'm pro a strong ND. My take is that refusing to join a conference has hurt them much more than helped. The last decade's results would bear that out. But, again, if the field expands to 8 all this is irrelevant. The conf championship games wojuld likely go away.

 

[Rionegro]

Ohio State and Bama weren't penalized for not participating in a conference championship game. When did conference membership become mandatory?

It was never mandatory but we NEVER have to play and are not penalized for it. Alabama and OSU justified their picks by winning NC's.

 

[irishalice]

No really, link or not, its a fact. #2 team in those conferences is typcially top 20. Fact. You and I both know it. Maybe top 25.

But sure, I agree, is not required. My point is that tonight showed why it should be. Subjectivity gets the wrong teams in. As we saw.

See my comments about this not being an anti ND take. I'm pro a strong ND. My take is that refusing to join a conference has hurt them much more than helped. The last decade's results would bear that out. But, again, if the field expands to 8 all this is irrelevant. The conf championship games wojuld likely go away.

Nope, not buying that conference championship games always involve the two best or highest ranked conference teams.

ND deserved to be in the playoffs. They did what they had to do and finished with an undefeated season. If they had lost but one game they would not have been selected. That is the risk of being independent in football and not in the protection of a conference. ND takes their independence seriously and doubt if they ever join a conference in football unless forced and with an expanded playoff being a real possibility won't have to.

 

[irishalice]

It was never mandatory but we NEVER have to play and are not penalized for it. Alabama and OSU justified their picks by winning NC's.

No, OSU lost to Clemson 31-0 in the semi-finals the year they went as a nonconference champion.

So, you're saying win an NC and that makes it all right to be selected over conference champs if said team is in a conference?

 

[Cumberlandsc]

Nope, not buying that conference championship games always involve the two best or highest ranked conference teams.

ND deserved to be in the playoffs. They did what they had to do and finished with an undefeated season. If they had lost but one game they would not have been selected. That is the risk of being independent in football and not in the protection of a conference. ND takes their independence seriously and doubt if they ever join a conference in football unless forced and with an expanded playoff being a real possibility won't have to.

By that logic UCF has to be in.

 

[irishalice]

By that logic UCF has to be in.

Sagarin has their SOS at 93.
http://sagarin.com/sports/cfsend.htm

By your logic of conference champ only...they should be considered.

 

[Cumberlandsc]

Maybe and maybe not. Conference membership is not mandatory and until it is...

But all this aside, ND is a very good team. I dont think we saw the typical ND team tonight. Clemson probably did stop them legitimately, but ND doesnt give up plays on defense like that. It should have been a toss up going into the 4th quarter. So, one wants to say, "They'll be back in the playoffs next year", but that is my point: if they lose a game, any game, it will be really tough. If another team has one loss but then wins its conf champ game, who gets picked? If I'm an ND fan I will be able to give 5 reasons why ND, but I think doing so would be indefensible from an objective stance,

 

[Cumberlandsc]

Sagarin has their SOS at 93.
http://sagarin.com/sports/cfsend.htm

By your logic of conference champ only...they should be considered.

All this is actually my point. An amalgam of ratings and algorithms picked teams for the BCS. We decided we hated that. Too subjective, we said. What about so-and-so, we said. Okay, so we make it subjective; play it off. When it started it was the best 4 of the 5 conf champs, plus maybe ND. Well, that is an element of subjectivity right there, and by year 3 the Committee had basically thrown the conf championship thing out the window. We basically now have 4 BCS teams rather than 2, with the alogorithms replaced by a lot of private conversations. So we're almost back where we started, which actually places a larger spotlight on ND's non conference status. This year ND was #3 after everyone's 12th game, and there was almost no way it could be jeapordized. Just dont lose in week 13 and they're in. So they stay home and cant lose. Or maybe next year they are 5 and sit home and hope someone loses game #13. Surely you see why people dont like that.

The ND response vascillates between two arguments:
1. Objective: we won all our games. Fine, so did UCF. And if objectivity is the standard, winning a Power 5 conf champ is usually objectively higher than winning 12 (or 10 or 11) games.
2. Subjective: Our regular season showed we were one of the top 4. Fine, but that is just the BCS argument we all hated. One could very well make the case that a team like UGA did more to elevate its subjective status in a loss to Alabama than ND did in any of its wins.

The existence of objectively determined conf winners and subjectively selected Playoff participants creates an inherent inequity when a non conference team like ND is considered. As I said in a previous answer to you, it could hurt ND as much as anyone else. As of yet this hasnt happened, but in a coming year, maybe 2019, they could be undefeated and legitimately a top 4 team, lose to USC at the end of the year, and have no recourse as a #5 team wins its conf champ game. ND almost has to go undefeated.

 

[tkirish]

Nothing like an irrelevant comment to save one's feelings. But it was indeed irrelevant. Go get to, then win, a conference championship game or admit UGA should have been there instead.

Sorry, but a 2 loss team shouldn’t be in.

I agree the Committee has decided. Its ND fans who need to decide. ND can't refuse the need to qualify for a conference championship game (which is likely against a top 20 team), and then win it, and also think that 12-0 is worth an invitation, unless one wants UCF in.

If one wants to say that the Committee should go to objectivity and invite conference winners, that has my 100% support. If a team doesn't win its conference, it doesn't get invited. Easy. But if you instead go for subjectivity, UGA should have been invited instead. One side of the fence or the other.

Alabama and Ohio st both got in the playoff without playing in a conference championship game. That’s a fact. As far as Georgia being invited this year, I disagree. Ohio st, even with a loss to Purdue, should have been considered ahead of Georgia.

With that said, every team not named Alabama or Clemson is overrated. The reality is those 2 teams have been the dominant teams the last 4 years and every other team has been trying to chase them. Why is Oklahoma not called out ? Their conference is a joke. No one plays defense. Their defense is horrible and no where near what a playoff team should be. Yet I hear nothing about them. Hell they had to go to overtime to be Army. Does anyone mention that ? It doesn’t matter. ND lost and they do need to win these games. My point is, the other teams that lose also need to win but of course that’s never mention.

 

[d1042]

tOSU got destroyed in the playoffs once,right?

 

[nsp29640]

ESPN controls the playoffs and it's all about $ to them. As long as ND brings eyeballs to the TV sets then they are going to get in.

 

[Roady]

Second dumbest, after yours: The two games don't relate. However bad Bama happens to beat OU, it says nothing about ND, other than that Bama would beat ND somewhat worse.

The ACC was under rated...Duke, Wake, Syracuse, and Virginia won bowls from the underdog position. The conference may end up winning more bowls then any other conference.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Georgia?? They lost twice. And whooped by LSU. Don’t lose twice. Flat out. We didn’t. Nor did Oklahoma.

Georgia. They lost flipping twice.

We got stomped. I understand that. But, the resume going into the playoff was very good.

 

[zonairish]

Or invite UGA who is better than either of them.

But that is a subjective decision. Like the BCS. Which for some reason we all said we didn't like. We wanted subjective, a playoff. So play your way in.

What we have now is 3-5 teams completely dominating CFB every year. Alabama, Clemson, Georgia sorta, Ohio St sorta and OU sorta. Every year or other year you may get Notre Dame, Washington, Mich St and what happens we get to see game 22 rematch in a row of the NCG alabama vs Clemson. Hey Jack-Arse it does not matter who makes the playoffs and it is not a Notre Dame problem. The problem is every program out there cannot stock pile the higher end 5* recruits. Until kids want to get a real education or realize the odds of you lasting in the NFL more than 3 years is slim to none this is not going to change with these millennial kids. You on the other hand just demonstrates a hate for Notre Dame.

 

[d1042]

Georgia?? They lost twice. And whooped by LSU. Don’t lose twice. Flat out. We didn’t. Nor did Oklahoma.

Georgia. They lost flipping twice.

We got stomped. I understand that. But, the resume going into the playoff was very good.

Consider CU vs ND in the ACC CCG? Then, ND is not in the playoff. That is what happened to UGA.
UGA performed better vs Bama than ND vs CU.
This is the reality for the non ND fan universe.

 

[twalsh]

Consider CU vs ND in the ACC CCG? Then, ND is not in the playoff. That is what happened to UGA.
UGA performed better vs Bama than ND vs CU.
This is the reality for the non ND fan universe.

Losing to Bama didn’t keep Georgia out of the playoff, losing to LSU did.

 

[d1042]

So if UGA beats Bama then UGA is still out of the pkayoffs? really?
If you, intend to argue that, don’t waste your time. I’d think you were nuts anyway

 

[twalsh]

So if UGA beats Bama then UGA is still out of the pkayoffs? really?
If you, intend to argue that, don’t waste your time. I’d think you were nuts anyway

In analyzing UGA’s two loss season, getting thumped pretty good by LSU is their downfall, not losing to Bama. Just like OSU, who they lost to and how is the key.

 

[mwjourney]

So if UGA beats Bama then UGA is still out of the pkayoffs? really?
If you, intend to argue that, don’t waste your time. I’d think you were nuts anyway

The only way UGA gets considered for the playoff after the LSU loss is if they beat Alabama. They didn't so they were left out. It's not complicated. They lost two games.

 

[d1042]

so, the loss in the CCG was the loss that kept UGA out, n’est pas?
A CCG that had ND played in, might have eliminated ND?

 

[mwjourney]

so, the loss in the CCG was the loss that kept UGA out, n’est pas?
A CCG that had ND played in, might have eliminated ND?

I think you mean n'est-ce pas

But yes, the ACC game and a bad loss to Clemson would have given greater legitimacy to OSU who won their conference championship game to be included. The only difference is ND would still have had only 1 loss and not 2 losses which is why UGA was left out. Also, ND could have argued like UGA did that their loss was to one of the best teams in the country.

 

[hornick]

BRAVO!!!!!! Only the small group of Notre Shame fans believe they are an elite team but the rest of the world realize that an incredibly weak schedule allows them these seasons! Join a conference and see how "good" you really are.

Incredibly weak schedule is all I need to know of your knowledge of the game. How's them Huskers been doing lately?

 

[d1042]

I think you mean n'est-ce pas

But yes, the ACC game and a bad loss to Clemson would have given greater legitimacy to OSU who won their conference championship game to be included. The only difference is ND would still have had only 1 loss and not 2 losses which is why UGA was left out. Also, ND could have argued like UGA did that their loss was to one of the best teams in the country.

UGA was out because they were not SEC champions. LSU did not eliminate UGA. Alabama did.
Had ND played and lost to CU as it lost the other day, who would the committee have selected?
Alabama, UGA or ND?

Come on say it....

 

[mwjourney]

UGA was out because they were not SEC champions. LSU did not eliminate UGA. Alabama did.
Had ND played and lost to CU as it lost the other day, who would the committee have selected?
Alabama, UGA or ND?

Come on say it....

OSU

 

[d1042]

OSU

really? over Bama? you are just being obstinate, right?

 

[mwjourney]

really? over Bama? you are just being obstinate, right?

Not sure what your point is but UGA lost, ND doesn't play in a conference championship game......so who cares? UGA controlled their destiny over Oklahoma but choked away the Alabama game. The four most deserving teams were in the playoffs.

 

[d1042]

Well, agree, but 4 of 6 deserving teams made the playoff. I definitely think ND is a top 6.

 

[mwjourney]

Well, agree, but 4 of 6 deserving teams made the playoff. I definitely think ND is a top 6.

UGA and OSU had cases to make. I didn't particularly like OU getting in since I felt like they were half a team but they won the games they needed to win. If you go by what some want as the new criteria, you could say OSU looked the best at the end of the year out of everyone except Alabama so they should have been invited.

It's not a perfect system at all which I think we agree on. I'll probably begin to dislike the CFP selection process as much as the NCAA tournament selection process when you get the techno geeks breaking every decision down into a life or death decision.

 

[lyonhawk]

I want to make sure I'm following the logic here. Since ND didn't win a conf. title game, they should've been left out for Georgia...who didn't win a conf. title game?

Also, regarding who "eliminated" UGA, if they hadn't lost to LSU and the SECCG would've gone the same way, they probably would've gotten in. Neither loss was singularly responsible for them not making it, but the 3-TD loss to LSU was too much in combination with the loss to Bama.

 

[d1042]

I want to make sure I'm following the logic here. Since ND didn't win a conf. title game, they should've been left out for Georgia...who didn't win a conf. title game?

Also, regarding who "eliminated" UGA, if they hadn't lost to LSU and the SECCG would've gone the same way, they probably would've gotten in. Neither loss was singularly responsible for them not making it, but the 3-TD loss to LSU was too much in combination with the loss to Bama.

no. you haven’t got it yet.

 

[Patrirish]

Maybe that challenging schedule which included Austin Peay, U Mass and Middle Tennessee had something to do with it ?

 

[HRC08]

BRAVO!!!!!! Only the small group of Notre Shame fans believe they are an elite team but the rest of the world realize that an incredibly weak schedule allows them these seasons! Join a conference and see how "good" you really are.

Oh man, we’ve reached a new low: Husker fans dropping the Notre Shame on us!

 

[HRC08]

I agree 100%. Win a conference championship game and a Playoff spot is deserved. Otherwise, not. Or invite UCF. Take your pick.

Yet teams have not won a CC and gone on to win the championship....

 

[d1042]

Yet teams have not won a CC and gone on to win the championship....

Well, that is a tough road. Big game and tough opponent, Big game and tough opponent, Big game and tough opponent.